Sold-out development in Fountain Valley

hs_teacher_IHB

hs_teacher_IHB

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I always thought that Fountain Valley was a desirable location. Centrally located within a good school district and not too far from the beach and Interstate 405.



The only thing it was lacking was newer homes. If I had the money, I would buy a new home in Fountain Valley too.



Irvine is an awesome city, but I think it's very isolated from other areas.





See excerpt below:



The few new houses that are selling are often niche projects. In Fountain Valley in Orange County, Far West Industries sold out a 54-home development, with many houses priced over $1 million, in three months.



Far West senior vice president Scott Lissoy said the project worked because there was little available land for new homes in Fountain Valley and demand was strong for the area's high-performing school district.



Lissoy said that, because he grew up in the area, he was confident there would be enough buyers for the development when his company acquired the land in 2006, even as the housing market was cooling.



"I understood there was very, very limited opportunity for new home construction," within the school district, he said. At the same time, Lissoy believed there was pent-up demand from families in nearby areas such as Garden Grove and Westminster who wished to trade-up.
 
<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-builders24-2008jul24,0,5513050.story">Here is the article</a>.



Do take note that they are sold out, but not completed and closed yet. A lot can happen between now and when you need to close escrow. Hopefully no one has a loan approval from IndyMac.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1216960596]<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-builders24-2008jul24,0,5513050.story">Here is the article</a>.



Do take note that they are sold out, but not completed and closed yet. A lot can happen between now and when you need to close escrow. Hopefully no one has a loan approval from IndyMac.</blockquote>


This market in FV is targeting the Vietnamese demographic. With this ethnic group their down payment must be 20% or higher inorder for the lender to approve the loans. This group of buyers can easily make the mortgage but the combined sources of income lack documentation. I would be more worried about the number of people living there exceeding the maximum occupancy load.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1216961795][quote author="graphrix" date=1216960596]<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-builders24-2008jul24,0,5513050.story">Here is the article</a>.



Do take note that they are sold out, but not completed and closed yet. A lot can happen between now and when you need to close escrow. Hopefully no one has a loan approval from IndyMac.</blockquote>


This market in FV is targeting the Vietnamese demographic. With this ethnic group their down payment must be 20% or higher inorder for the lender to approve the loans. This group of buyers can easily make the mortgage but the combined sources of income lack documentation. I would be more worried about the number of people living there exceeding the maximum occupancy load.</blockquote>


Nice, so lets all start making up real estate terms like "maximum occupancy load", or are you serious that your fear is that the structure will collapse due to the weight of too many vietnamese immigrants or that the CC&R;'s actually has a clause limiting the size of a family, much like china.



With this ethinic group a down payment must be 20% of higher? i think you mean all ethnic groups in this down market.



for someone who posts so much on this site, you sure don't know a lot about real estate, or humans.
 
[quote author="jcaraway" date=1216965547]



for someone who posts so much on this site, you sure don't know a lot about real estate, or humans.</blockquote>


If you're a bank, and somebody(s) shows up with 8 W-2's under different names to document income, do you just write it or do you start asking questions?



On a side note, every time you post I feel like I've seen you somewhere before. Is this you?



<img src="http://pubconductor.com/weblog/media/blogs/conductor/Horses_ass_1.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="jcaraway" date=1216965547][quote author="bkshopr" date=1216961795][quote author="graphrix" date=1216960596]<a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-builders24-2008jul24,0,5513050.story">Here is the article</a>.



Do take note that they are sold out, but not completed and closed yet. A lot can happen between now and when you need to close escrow. Hopefully no one has a loan approval from IndyMac.</blockquote>


This market in FV is targeting the Vietnamese demographic. With this ethnic group their down payment must be 20% or higher inorder for the lender to approve the loans. This group of buyers can easily make the mortgage but the combined sources of income lack documentation. I would be more worried about the number of people living there exceeding the maximum occupancy load.</blockquote>


Nice, so lets all start making up real estate terms like "maximum occupancy load", or are you serious that your fear is that the structure will collapse due to the weight of too many vietnamese immigrants or that the CC&R;'s actually has a clause limiting the size of a family, much like china.



With this ethinic group a down payment must be 20% of higher? i think you mean all ethnic groups in this down market.



for someone who posts so much on this site, you sure don't know a lot about real estate, or humans.</blockquote>


You must be related to AMutation.



First I need to educate you on Occupancy Load smart ass. It is absolutely not regarding weight. It is about fire egress and the maximum of occupants should be allowed in a structured space and in the event of an evacuation or rescue should take place before the burning structure collapses. . For example you will see a sign posted in a ground floor restaurant that will only permit "x" number of people. Do you think the concrete slab would only hold a certain number of patrons?



Here is the definition:



Proper calculations are crucial to accurate code applications.



When applying both NFPA 101(R), Life Safety Code, and the model building codes to any structure that will be occupied, the designer must take into account its projected occupant loads. The occupant load of a building affects the number and capacity of its means of egress, as well as has an impact on the structure's occupancy classification, its plumbing fixtures, and its ventilation rates. Therefore, it's essential that a proper occupant load calculation be performed when a new building is designed or an existing one analyzed.



More

Articles of Interest

Calculating occupant load in assembly uses

Five myths of occupant load calculation

Occupant load assessment for old residential high-rise buildings.

Common code issues in office buildings

Fire risk in assembly occupancies



Unfortunately, the selection of the proper occupant load factor is often misunderstood, as is the potential to increase the calculated occupant load based upon the number of people anticipated in a space.



Occupant load factors



Table 7.3.1.2 of the Life Safety Code identifies the occupant load factors to be used as part of the way the space is used, rather than on its occupancy classification.



For example, an office conference room should be calculated using a different measure than the surrounding office space. While the surrounding office space may be calculated at 100 gross square feet (9 square meters) per person, the conference room is calculated using 15 net square feet (1 square meter) per person, assuming that the conference room will be furnished with tables and chairs. This is because the designer can anticipate that the concentration of people in the conference room will be greater than the concentration in the surrounding offices. If divided by the occupant load factor of 15 square feet (1 square meter), a 300-square-foot (28-squaremeter) conference room would have a calculated occupant load of 20 people. While this number is less than the number in the Life Safety Code that defines assembly occupancy, the occupant load factors for assembly use should be used.



Maximum occupant load



In most cases, the calculated value using the appropriate occupant load factor is the minimum occupant load. Using the higher of the values is the conservative approach. Since the occupant load is also used to determine the capacity of a structure's means of egress, including the direction of door swing, the types of egress, and the need for panic hardware, using the higher number will place a greater demand on the egress system. This higher value should also be used when posting the occupant load permitted in a space.



Since occupancy classification may be based on the occupant load calculation, these calculations are essential to the proper application of code requirement.



FOR MORE INFORMATION ON NFPA 101(R), LIFE SAFETY CODE(R), CHECK OUT WWW.NFPA.ORG.







Here is my research regarding Vietnamese source of income. Many who can afford to purchase home are business owners or several families combining their incomes. Within the Vietnamese communities many cheat on taxes. Many transactions are done on cash basis. Food stamps and Welfare are common. Some stores would help convert the vouchers to cash for the recipients (not a full face value). Families that continue to receive government assistance often are employed with jobs that pay them under the table. Yet most of these household are relatively wealthy but appears to be poor according to Uncle Sam. When it is time for this wealthy group of buyers in purchasing a home they can not afford to open up a paper trail. My suggestion of a heavy down payment (way more than 20%) or mostly cash buyers is the only way for this group of buyers to qualify. It is not uncommon for several generations or families living under one roof. In some cases the number exceed the "maximum occupancy load" jeapardizing the safety of the firemen trying to rescue more victims than the structure could house.



BTW, I rarely make up anything. Maximum Occupancy Load is not a RE term. It is an architect's term when designing a structure to house a given number of occupants that is reasonably safe in any evacuation events such as earthquake or fire. The fire authority are always proactive in enforcing the code. I hope you learn something new today so you can be a smart ass among your RE friends.
 
Many of our firemen heroes need to deal with homes housing too many occupants. As more space is needed the garage is the first place to be rented or shared. Illegal wiring and improper extension cords overloading the circuit usually have been the cause of fire.

A second set of appliances such as cook top, microwave, refrigerator and heater are found in homes housing several families. They burden the existing wiring not designed to hold so much ampere. This is the reason why in ethnic neighborhoods the cars are parked outside. Another danger is the location of water heater in illegal habitable space. Carbon Monoxide built up can kill. Have you heard of incidents like a Vietnamese family died due to carbon monoxide poisoning from BBQ indoor?



In the event of a fire there are no egress openings in some of the rooms that were illegally converted for sleeping and firemen risk their life in going into dangerous burning structure to save lives. The number of windows and their ventilation openings are designed for thermal and health comfort for a specific numbers of occupants. From a zoning perspective the number of cars are has direct impact to the neighborhood. As you can see now why the maximum occupancy load is important and that should be the biggest worry.
 
My fiance and I know a few families that have bought there. Indeed, it's catered towards the vietnamese families.

They actually had a lottery there to purchase!



These families consist of a dad, mom, kid, dad's mom and maybe 1 or 2 more people.

The down payment was considerable, 600K.

They are dentists, doctors, local BOLSA (vietnamese area) business owners.
 
[quote author="rickhunter" date=1216975000]My fiance and I know a few families that have bought there. Indeed, it's catered towards the vietnamese families.

They actually had a lottery there to purchase!



These families consist of a dad, mom, kid, dad's mom and maybe 1 or 2 more people.

The down payment was considerable, 600K.

They are dentists, doctors, local BOLSA (vietnamese area) business owners.</blockquote>


Thank you Rick for validating the demographic and the size of their downpayment (way more that 20% more like 70%-80%) so the bank would not investigate too much into the family finance. My research is aligned with your friends criteria. The Local Bolsa Vietnamese merchants are the group that I am referring to with controversial documentation on income.



Several months ago I posted about infilled development in established cities where families can stay close to each other as well as joint ownerships thus allowing ordinary homes to command over a million $ price tag provided that the footage (3,000sf+) is large enough in housing several families under one roof. This type of development will be the only one that sell well in this bubble era.



This project delivered the right program for the demand of this market. Sinfully ugly but immigrants does not care about elevations.



















<img src="http://www.fountainvalleynewhomes.com/models.php" alt="" />









<img src="http://www.fountainvalleynewhomes.com/images/site_map.jpg" alt="" />







<img src="http://www.fountainvalleynewhomes.com/images/map.gif" alt="" />
 
Multi-generational families living under one roof are traditional in many societies, and many immigrants, including Vietnamese, structure there households in this manner for both tradition and affordability. I have a Vietnamese co-worker who owns a home in FV, and I asked him about this. He freely admitted that he, his wife, their kids, his parents, and his brother and wife all share his home. An El Salvadoran co-worker also lives like this, and purchased a tract home in Corona that she shares with her parents and her sister's family. 5 kids, 6 adults. She makes less than $30k/year yet purchased a $550k house.
 
I've had a lychee and longan grove in South Florida for the last ten years and have sold a lot of fruit to Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese and Loation (sp?) business partners. Great people and great busineses. Oh, and the cash was nice. I came to expect being paid several thousand dollars at a time in $ 20s and $ 100s. I guess after enough of these cash transactions, buying a $ 500 K house is easy. The conversation on this topic makes sense.



FH
 
Cash-Only business? Maybe a cash business.



I did not mean to imply that they had 600K laying around their rental homes.

I'm sorry for being vague. Most if not all of these buyers are moved up buyers.

They already have equity in homes. They have sold inorder to purchase here.



So the large down helps them to have an affordable 400K-600K mortgage spread

over 30 years. I would estimate their take home is 200K-400K combined before taxes.



[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1216986923]

60% down payment? Wow. I guess with cash-only business, the federal and state agencies probably give them 50% of the money.</blockquote>
 
Hey, Fountain Valley is simply in a pretty decent location.



1. It's not too far from the beaches of Huntington Beach.

2. It has a pretty decent park - Mile Square.

3. It's has great access to the 405 for commuting purposes.

4. It has a good school district.



Huntington Beach is great, but is too far from the highways for commuting purposes.

Costa Mesa is coastal, but has underperforming schools.

Newport is excellent, but is too expensive for most people.

Irvine is also excellent, but is a little too spread out and isolated from other areas.



As for the Vietnamese, I know of some well-to-do ones who moved to Newport, Huntington, or Irvine for the better neighborhoods; but they still come back to Westminster every weekend for food.

I guess that's why Fountain Valley is desirable to them. Better homes with convenient access to Bolsa.



Also, if you haven't noticed, FV was mentioned in Money magazine's most desirable places to live.



Overall though, I just think that Fountain Valley is a "Nice Place to Live".
 
I think they started selling in April and are then sold out in June. I actually went to check out the models last month. Very spacious homes with decent sized lots.
 
hs - These homes do not have association and mello roos correct?



This is probably why they were so attractive. I agree that Fountain Valley is a nice place to live!



[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1217035728]I think they started selling in April and are then sold out in June. I actually went to check out the models last month. Very spacious homes with decent sized lots.</blockquote>
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1217030129]



Costa Mesa is coastal, but has underperforming schools.



</blockquote>


Hey, if we want to kick a hornet's nest REAL hard, we can start a discussion on just why Costa Mesa's schools - which are in the same District as Newport's - are underperforming...
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1216986923]<em>Have you heard of incidents like a Vietnamese family died due to carbon monoxide poisoning from BBQ indoor? </em>



Without reading the news, my first guess is that it is prbably suicide. Gasing with BBQ, oven, and the car is a common way to suicide in Asia, particularly in the urban neighborhood.



60% down payment? Wow. I guess with cash-only business, the federal and state agencies probably give them 50% of the money.</blockquote>
 
can someone explain to me why fountain valley is so close to the beach and freeways, yet irvine which has more freeway access, an airport right at its doorstep, and the county's largest CBD is apparently isolated in BFE? ;-)
 
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