CalGal_IHB
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RIP Ted Kennedy
- Thread starter bkshopr_IHB
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SoCal78_IHB
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This is just a reminder to please stay on topic and is not being directed at any one person. Feel free to state your cases about the topic at hand but without personal insults directed towards your fellow bloggers. Make me proud, kids! (Is there a doctor in the house? Momma needs a Xanax.)
CalGal_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1251515270]This is just a reminder to please stay on topic and is not being directed at any one person. Feel free to state your cases about the topic at hand but without personal insults directed towards your fellow bloggers. Make me proud, kids! (Is there a doctor in the house? Momma needs a Xanax.)</blockquote>
If this was directed at me - I did hold back.
If this was directed at me - I did hold back.
awgee_IHB
New member
Ted Kennedy served no one but himself. It does not follow that holding political office means that one has served one's country. History is replete with politicians who did more harm than good. Ted Kennedy did everything possible to destroy the Constitution and what it stands for.
SoCal78_IHB
New member
[quote author="CalGal" date=1251516037][quote author="SoCal78" date=1251515270]This is just a reminder to please stay on topic and is not being directed at any one person. Feel free to state your cases about the topic at hand but without personal insults directed towards your fellow bloggers. Make me proud, kids! (Is there a doctor in the house? Momma needs a Xanax.)</blockquote>
If this was directed at me - I did hold back.</blockquote>
Thanks. Like I said, "...is not being directed at any one person."
Cheers.
If this was directed at me - I did hold back.</blockquote>
Thanks. Like I said, "...is not being directed at any one person."
Cheers.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1251515270]This is just a reminder to please stay on topic and is not being directed at any one person. Feel free to state your cases about the topic at hand but without personal insults directed towards your fellow bloggers. Make me proud, kids! (Is there a doctor in the house? Momma needs a Xanax.)</blockquote>
Please do not censor the personal attacks. They speak volumes as to the poster's lack of cogent argument and the true manifestation of hate.
Please do not censor the personal attacks. They speak volumes as to the poster's lack of cogent argument and the true manifestation of hate.
bltserv_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1251516098]Ted Kennedy served no one but himself. It does not follow that holding political office means that one has served one's country. History is replete with politicians who did more harm than good. Ted Kennedy did everything possible to destroy the Constitution and what it stands for.</blockquote>
George W. Bush
Look at that mans record. His war in Iraq has killed thousands of Americans.
Still dont see any weapons of mass distruction or Iraqi`s in the planes on 9/11.
Look at his service record. First President with a DUI.
You still need to clean all that vomit off your shirt bytheway.
George W. Bush
Look at that mans record. His war in Iraq has killed thousands of Americans.
Still dont see any weapons of mass distruction or Iraqi`s in the planes on 9/11.
Look at his service record. First President with a DUI.
You still need to clean all that vomit off your shirt bytheway.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="bltserv" date=1251517252][quote author="awgee" date=1251516098]Ted Kennedy served no one but himself. It does not follow that holding political office means that one has served one's country. History is replete with politicians who did more harm than good. Ted Kennedy did everything possible to destroy the Constitution and what it stands for.</blockquote>
George W. Bush
Look at that mans record. His war in Iraq has killed thousands of Americans.
Still dont see any weapons of mass distruction or Iraqi`s in the planes on 9/11.
Look at his service record. First President with a DUI.
You still need to clean all that vomit off your shirt bytheway.</blockquote>
IMO, George W Bush was one of the vilest presidents ever. He did more to ignore the Constituion of any US President and is responsible for the deaths of Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis. None of which has anything to do with the disgusting behavior of Ted Kennedy.
George W. Bush
Look at that mans record. His war in Iraq has killed thousands of Americans.
Still dont see any weapons of mass distruction or Iraqi`s in the planes on 9/11.
Look at his service record. First President with a DUI.
You still need to clean all that vomit off your shirt bytheway.</blockquote>
IMO, George W Bush was one of the vilest presidents ever. He did more to ignore the Constituion of any US President and is responsible for the deaths of Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis. None of which has anything to do with the disgusting behavior of Ted Kennedy.
GraceOMalley_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1251513697][quote author="bltserv" date=1251504103][quote author="awgee" date=1251499312]<em>"Kennedy earned C grades at the private Milton Academy, but was admitted to Harvard as a "legacy" -- his father and older brothers had attended there, so the younger and dimmer Kennedy's admission was virtually assured. While attending, he was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classmate to cheat for him. While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two. His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England, pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea, where a war was raging. Kennedy was assigned to Paris, never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged.
While attending law school at the University of Virginia, he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was never revoked."
</em>
<em>"On 19 July 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts. At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond. He swam to shore and walked back to the party -- passing several houses and a fire station -- and two friends returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew, that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep.
Kennedy called the police the next morning. By then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car. The Kennedy family began pulling strings, ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne, and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock. In versions not so kind, it is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, that he was having an affair with Kopechne, and/or that he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight."
</em>
<em>"In 1973, at the height of Nixon's Watergate scandal, Kennedy thundered from the Senate floor, "Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law? Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty?""</em>
<em>"He was rumored to have had several affairs while married to his first wife, and had often been seen in public while thoroughly tanked and/or behaving obnoxiously. In 1987 he was caught in flagrante delicto with an unidentified woman on the floor of a restaurant."</em></blockquote>
The point of the OP was to pay respects to a long serving United States Senator upon his death.
But some here have decided to take it upon themselves to be all high and mighty. And now pass judgement.
Last time I recall Saint Peter was still at the Pearly Gates of Heaven. Or did you guys buy him off too.
Its one thing to do this when a man is alive. And another to do it when he is in the ground.
But the lack of respect I see taking place here for the just departed reinforces my attitudes about the hate
of the conservative cause. Its like watching a drunk vomit. Then he wants to discuss politics all the while
he has puke running down his shirt. Its laughable.
Whats next ? Throwing a party if something happened to Obama ? Your on a slippery path of hate.</blockquote>
President Obama is an honorable man. I disagree with his politics.
Ted Kennedy was filth and has no business being compared President Obama.
I give respect to those who deserve respect.</blockquote>
History is written by those who win. There is plenty of time before Obamas legacy is decided. That being said, your words are pretty harsh. Bush was accepted to Yale as a legacy student.. and I am sure that there have been plenty of others. Im not saying you need to respect him, Im just saying that the sum of a persons life isnt defined by their bad choices as long as their good choices outnumber the bad ones. And since you didn't know him personally how about trying to give the poor bastard the benefit of the doubt?
While attending law school at the University of Virginia, he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was never revoked."
</em>
<em>"On 19 July 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts. At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine, and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond. He swam to shore and walked back to the party -- passing several houses and a fire station -- and two friends returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew, that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep.
Kennedy called the police the next morning. By then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car. The Kennedy family began pulling strings, ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne, and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock. In versions not so kind, it is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, that he was having an affair with Kopechne, and/or that he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight."
</em>
<em>"In 1973, at the height of Nixon's Watergate scandal, Kennedy thundered from the Senate floor, "Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law? Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty?""</em>
<em>"He was rumored to have had several affairs while married to his first wife, and had often been seen in public while thoroughly tanked and/or behaving obnoxiously. In 1987 he was caught in flagrante delicto with an unidentified woman on the floor of a restaurant."</em></blockquote>
The point of the OP was to pay respects to a long serving United States Senator upon his death.
But some here have decided to take it upon themselves to be all high and mighty. And now pass judgement.
Last time I recall Saint Peter was still at the Pearly Gates of Heaven. Or did you guys buy him off too.
Its one thing to do this when a man is alive. And another to do it when he is in the ground.
But the lack of respect I see taking place here for the just departed reinforces my attitudes about the hate
of the conservative cause. Its like watching a drunk vomit. Then he wants to discuss politics all the while
he has puke running down his shirt. Its laughable.
Whats next ? Throwing a party if something happened to Obama ? Your on a slippery path of hate.</blockquote>
President Obama is an honorable man. I disagree with his politics.
Ted Kennedy was filth and has no business being compared President Obama.
I give respect to those who deserve respect.</blockquote>
History is written by those who win. There is plenty of time before Obamas legacy is decided. That being said, your words are pretty harsh. Bush was accepted to Yale as a legacy student.. and I am sure that there have been plenty of others. Im not saying you need to respect him, Im just saying that the sum of a persons life isnt defined by their bad choices as long as their good choices outnumber the bad ones. And since you didn't know him personally how about trying to give the poor bastard the benefit of the doubt?
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="CapitalismWorks" date=1251496100][quote author="bltserv" date=1251458745]RIP to the last of the Kennedy Children of the old century.
The guy spent his entire life in public service. 3rd longest serving Senator in US History.
Had 2 of his Brothers Assassinated.
Some of us cast judgement so easily here.
Yes he made a terrible mistake when he was 37. He drove off a small wooden bridge and a life was lost.
Maybe he should have been punished more at that time. The courts of that day did their job.
But to cast judgement on a man for his crimes from 40 Years ago is just tasteless and in bad form upon his death.
Let the dead rest in peace.</blockquote>
I take back my original post. Everyone formed their opinions of Teddy long ago, and his death isn't going to change anything.</blockquote>
Cappy - I do not for a second kid myself into thinking that my opinion would change anyone's mind. But, I am reminded of a quote.
<em>All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.</em>
The guy spent his entire life in public service. 3rd longest serving Senator in US History.
Had 2 of his Brothers Assassinated.
Some of us cast judgement so easily here.
Yes he made a terrible mistake when he was 37. He drove off a small wooden bridge and a life was lost.
Maybe he should have been punished more at that time. The courts of that day did their job.
But to cast judgement on a man for his crimes from 40 Years ago is just tasteless and in bad form upon his death.
Let the dead rest in peace.</blockquote>
I take back my original post. Everyone formed their opinions of Teddy long ago, and his death isn't going to change anything.</blockquote>
Cappy - I do not for a second kid myself into thinking that my opinion would change anyone's mind. But, I am reminded of a quote.
<em>All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.</em>
ukyo116_IHB
New member
I am unsure why there are not more people looking at it from awgee's point of view. He holds a higher standard for politicians, which I think should be applied to any individual who takes an oath to public service.
kcmkane_IHB
New member
[quote author="CalGal" date=1251514381]I have lost some respect for some people on this blog today.
Ted and the Kennedys are not perfect - that's for sure.
But they have devoted their lives to helping people in this country.
Keep spending hours upon hours on this blog bashing people while the Kennedys and others continue to help people.
RIP Teddy. You will be missed.</blockquote>
I must be one of the people CalCal lost respect for, because after I read her post and took a quick look over at my Facebook I noticed she removed me as a friend. That's too bad that someone would rather eliminate any dissenting voice as opposed to discuss the issues. Would it surprise you CalGal if I told you I was a lifelong registered Democrat, and have never voted for anyone but a Democrat --- including the current President? Don't get me wrong, I have intentions of changing my voter registration to Independent because I cannot reconcile the current direction of the Democrats with my own beliefs any more than I can the Republicans.
Despite my historical Democratic leanings I refuse to blindly worship someone just because the have a "D" next to their name. Mr. Kennedy was a seriously flawed individual. He might have earned my respect if he had EVER taken responsibility for his mistake --- but he never did, choosing to exercise his family power to weasel out responsibility for taking the life of another human being. And please don't anyone respond with "the courts judged him in 1969". Anyone who believe those New England courts were not in the tank for this guy is delusional. I'm sorry you choose to opt out of the debate, CalGal --- but I guess if this is your position then we probably would not be friends, anyway. I respect all of my friends' viewpoints, whether they differ from my own or not.
Ted and the Kennedys are not perfect - that's for sure.
But they have devoted their lives to helping people in this country.
Keep spending hours upon hours on this blog bashing people while the Kennedys and others continue to help people.
RIP Teddy. You will be missed.</blockquote>
I must be one of the people CalCal lost respect for, because after I read her post and took a quick look over at my Facebook I noticed she removed me as a friend. That's too bad that someone would rather eliminate any dissenting voice as opposed to discuss the issues. Would it surprise you CalGal if I told you I was a lifelong registered Democrat, and have never voted for anyone but a Democrat --- including the current President? Don't get me wrong, I have intentions of changing my voter registration to Independent because I cannot reconcile the current direction of the Democrats with my own beliefs any more than I can the Republicans.
Despite my historical Democratic leanings I refuse to blindly worship someone just because the have a "D" next to their name. Mr. Kennedy was a seriously flawed individual. He might have earned my respect if he had EVER taken responsibility for his mistake --- but he never did, choosing to exercise his family power to weasel out responsibility for taking the life of another human being. And please don't anyone respond with "the courts judged him in 1969". Anyone who believe those New England courts were not in the tank for this guy is delusional. I'm sorry you choose to opt out of the debate, CalGal --- but I guess if this is your position then we probably would not be friends, anyway. I respect all of my friends' viewpoints, whether they differ from my own or not.
SoCal78_IHB
New member
D'oh! I was axed on Facebook too. :-( You okay, CalGal?
CalGal_IHB
New member
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CalGal_IHB
New member
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IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.
bltserv_IHB
New member
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251587861]I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.
</blockquote>
Its not acceptable in the least. But for some reason the rules of common courtesy and social etiquette have disolved.
Its the same group that wants to see the Presidents birth certificate and now brings up the voting record of Ted Kennedy
on abortion and stem cell research. All while the man is being morned for his passing and laid to rest.
What makes us human is our compassion for our fellow man. But some of us have lost all compassion in the politics of the modern day.
</blockquote>
Its not acceptable in the least. But for some reason the rules of common courtesy and social etiquette have disolved.
Its the same group that wants to see the Presidents birth certificate and now brings up the voting record of Ted Kennedy
on abortion and stem cell research. All while the man is being morned for his passing and laid to rest.
What makes us human is our compassion for our fellow man. But some of us have lost all compassion in the politics of the modern day.
awgee_IHB
New member
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251587861]I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.
And I find it reprehensible that flags are flying half mast for a man that was an example of moral turpitude and even more reprehensible that few have the guts to speak the truth about him.
If you read the thread, you could not possibly think this was about politics.
The man killed a woman because he was driving drunk. He did not call for help for her. He did not contact the authorities. He did contact this lawyer. He was a manslaughterer, a drunk, a womanizer, and a cheat.
It is a example of the depths of apathy and low morality that our society has sunk to that people will say, "Why hold something against somebody that happened 40 years ago?" He never took responsibility for his actions. How can society get over it? He never paid a debt to society. He never acknowledged his crime.
His politics are relevant only to the extent that his lack of character influenced his manner of politics, not his politics itself. Do you refrain from saying that Richard Nixon was of low moral character because he is dead? Do you refrain from saying Stalin was a murderer because he is dead? Since when is death an excuse for denial of the truth?
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.
And I find it reprehensible that flags are flying half mast for a man that was an example of moral turpitude and even more reprehensible that few have the guts to speak the truth about him.
If you read the thread, you could not possibly think this was about politics.
The man killed a woman because he was driving drunk. He did not call for help for her. He did not contact the authorities. He did contact this lawyer. He was a manslaughterer, a drunk, a womanizer, and a cheat.
It is a example of the depths of apathy and low morality that our society has sunk to that people will say, "Why hold something against somebody that happened 40 years ago?" He never took responsibility for his actions. How can society get over it? He never paid a debt to society. He never acknowledged his crime.
His politics are relevant only to the extent that his lack of character influenced his manner of politics, not his politics itself. Do you refrain from saying that Richard Nixon was of low moral character because he is dead? Do you refrain from saying Stalin was a murderer because he is dead? Since when is death an excuse for denial of the truth?
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
[quote author="awgee" date=1251599874][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251587861]I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.</blockquote>
At the moment of passing, only the positive is relevant.
History will have its chance to reveal the negative and provide a balanced view.
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.</blockquote>
At the moment of passing, only the positive is relevant.
History will have its chance to reveal the negative and provide a balanced view.
Minimorty_IHB
New member
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251600223][quote author="awgee" date=1251599874][quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1251587861]I find it interesting that it is considered acceptable to talk smack about dead people because of political disagreements with them.
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.</blockquote>
At the moment of passing, only the positive is relevant.
History will have its chance to reveal the negative and provide a balanced view.</blockquote>
How is only the positive relevant?
It seems as though with Michael Jackson's passing, only the negative was relevant. Why is Kennedy any different?
I believe both the positive and the negative should be fair game.
I don't think I ever agreed with <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms">Jessie Helms</a> about any policy decision, but I can respect that he was elected repeatedly to the US Senate and acted as his conscious directed him.</blockquote>
I disrespect the man for his lack of character, not his politics.</blockquote>
At the moment of passing, only the positive is relevant.
History will have its chance to reveal the negative and provide a balanced view.</blockquote>
How is only the positive relevant?
It seems as though with Michael Jackson's passing, only the negative was relevant. Why is Kennedy any different?
I believe both the positive and the negative should be fair game.