REOs will rise 50% in the next 4 months.

<strong>Whoa! 9% of mortgages 90d late in LA!</strong>



<blockquote>First American CoreLogic, which has a vast store of data on actual mortgages, reports today that Los Angeles County mortgages delinquent by 90 days or more in March were up to 8.9% of the total -- more than double the percentage of March last year.</blockquote>




Does anyone know what the number for OC is?
 
<strong>From the main blog:</strong>





<blockquote>Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 05:57 AM

?The banks have done a good job holding inventory back, but they can only do so for so long.?

There are about 350 REO for sale in Orange County. Bank of America owns 15,000 properties in Orange County. What do you think will happen next?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Lee in Irvine

2009-07-21 06:04 AM

Oh my. Where did that figure come from. Was it published?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 06:19 AM

No, it is one of those semi-secret numbers that nobody wants published. I know brokers who have been meeting with asset managers from different banks and other institutions. People running in those circles know the situation. The word is getting out in the Agent community.

There is a big push on right now for brokers and asset managers to set up systems to dispose of all these REO. Nobody is quite sure how to go about it. The problem is so big that even brokerage houses with hundreds of agents do not have the capacity to handle all the listings. We are probably going to see several big brokerages get a large piece of the REO pie.

Don?t forget that the problem is getting worse each month as defaults and REO keep coming in faster than banks are clearing it out.

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Mcdonna1980

2009-07-21 06:30 AM

I just did a little dance up and down my hallway</blockquote>




<strong>Could it be true????

</strong>



(not that I doubt IR, but....15k is a very big number!)
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1248238804]<strong>From the main blog:</strong>





<blockquote>Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 05:57 AM

?The banks have done a good job holding inventory back, but they can only do so for so long.?

There are about 350 REO for sale in Orange County. Bank of America owns 15,000 properties in Orange County. What do you think will happen next?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Lee in Irvine

2009-07-21 06:04 AM

Oh my. Where did that figure come from. Was it published?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 06:19 AM

No, it is one of those semi-secret numbers that nobody wants published. I know brokers who have been meeting with asset managers from different banks and other institutions. People running in those circles know the situation. The word is getting out in the Agent community.

There is a big push on right now for brokers and asset managers to set up systems to dispose of all these REO. Nobody is quite sure how to go about it. The problem is so big that even brokerage houses with hundreds of agents do not have the capacity to handle all the listings. We are probably going to see several big brokerages get a large piece of the REO pie.

Don?t forget that the problem is getting worse each month as defaults and REO keep coming in faster than banks are clearing it out.

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Mcdonna1980

2009-07-21 06:30 AM

I just did a little dance up and down my hallway</blockquote>




<strong>Could it be true????

</strong>



(not that I doubt IR, but....15k is a very big number!)</blockquote>




If I'm a bank, why am I holding back inventory that much?



Its the summer selling season, if the hold on past that, it means their next shot is next summer, otherwise they tank the market in the off season...?



Or are they waiting to have a few good quarters, collect some fat bonuses and sell some stock, then dump?



Delroy
 
[quote author="C Delroy Spuckler" date=1248240931][quote author="freedomCM" date=1248238804]<strong>From the main blog:</strong>





<blockquote>Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 05:57 AM

?The banks have done a good job holding inventory back, but they can only do so for so long.?

There are about 350 REO for sale in Orange County. Bank of America owns 15,000 properties in Orange County. What do you think will happen next?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Lee in Irvine

2009-07-21 06:04 AM

Oh my. Where did that figure come from. Was it published?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 06:19 AM

No, it is one of those semi-secret numbers that nobody wants published. I know brokers who have been meeting with asset managers from different banks and other institutions. People running in those circles know the situation. The word is getting out in the Agent community.

There is a big push on right now for brokers and asset managers to set up systems to dispose of all these REO. Nobody is quite sure how to go about it. The problem is so big that even brokerage houses with hundreds of agents do not have the capacity to handle all the listings. We are probably going to see several big brokerages get a large piece of the REO pie.

Don?t forget that the problem is getting worse each month as defaults and REO keep coming in faster than banks are clearing it out.

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Mcdonna1980

2009-07-21 06:30 AM

I just did a little dance up and down my hallway</blockquote>




<strong>Could it be true????

</strong>



(not that I doubt IR, but....15k is a very big number!)</blockquote>




If I'm a bank, why am I holding back inventory that much?



Its the summer selling season, if the hold on past that, it means their next shot is next summer, otherwise they tank the market in the off season...?



Or are they waiting to have a few good quarters, collect some fat bonuses and sell some stock, then dump?



Delroy</blockquote>


There are many questions about this inventory I cannot answer. I have heard from multiple sources that the number of REOs is staggering. I also heard that there are around 50,000 REO in LA County and 50,000 in Riverside County. We have it easy in OC with only 15,000. These number include current REO, new defaults and projections for what is already in their pipeline.



After the crash plays out, lenders are going to own -- or have owned -- a significant portion of our housing stock. A turnover of property of this magnitude is truly unprecedented.
 
3m people in OC ~ 1m households, so BofA holds ~1.5% of the housing stock. If you say that BofA is 50% of the market, this makes 3% of the housig stock as REOs. Not implausible.
 
[quote author="IrvineRenter" date=1248241431][quote author="C Delroy Spuckler" date=1248240931][quote author="freedomCM" date=1248238804]<strong>From the main blog:</strong>





<blockquote>Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 05:57 AM

?The banks have done a good job holding inventory back, but they can only do so for so long.?

There are about 350 REO for sale in Orange County. Bank of America owns 15,000 properties in Orange County. What do you think will happen next?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Lee in Irvine

2009-07-21 06:04 AM

Oh my. Where did that figure come from. Was it published?

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by IrvineRenter

2009-07-21 06:19 AM

No, it is one of those semi-secret numbers that nobody wants published. I know brokers who have been meeting with asset managers from different banks and other institutions. People running in those circles know the situation. The word is getting out in the Agent community.

There is a big push on right now for brokers and asset managers to set up systems to dispose of all these REO. Nobody is quite sure how to go about it. The problem is so big that even brokerage houses with hundreds of agents do not have the capacity to handle all the listings. We are probably going to see several big brokerages get a large piece of the REO pie.

Don?t forget that the problem is getting worse each month as defaults and REO keep coming in faster than banks are clearing it out.

Reply to this astute observation

Astute Observation by Mcdonna1980

2009-07-21 06:30 AM

I just did a little dance up and down my hallway</blockquote>




<strong>Could it be true????

</strong>



(not that I doubt IR, but....15k is a very big number!)</blockquote>




If I'm a bank, why am I holding back inventory that much?



Its the summer selling season, if the hold on past that, it means their next shot is next summer, otherwise they tank the market in the off season...?



Or are they waiting to have a few good quarters, collect some fat bonuses and sell some stock, then dump?



Delroy</blockquote>


There are many questions about this inventory I cannot answer. I have heard from multiple sources that the number of REOs is staggering. I also heard that there are around 50,000 REO in LA County and 50,000 in Riverside County. We have it easy in OC with only 15,000. These number include current REO, new defaults and projections for what is already in their pipeline.



After the crash plays out, lenders are going to own -- or have owned -- a significant portion of our housing stock. A turnover of property of this magnitude is truly unprecedented.</blockquote>


How do you align this with what Jim the Realtor said earlier today (he covers San Deigo, but the markets can't be that different)?



<a href="http://www.bubbleinfo.com/2009/07/debunking-foreclosure-myths/">Debunking Foreclosure Myths</a>



<blockquote>BUNK #1 - Banks are holding back properties.



In San Diego?s North County Coastal region, there aren?t many REOs not on the open market. The video tours you?ve seen over the last few days covers almost all of the ones listed on foreclosureradar that are bank-owned, but not on the MLS, and two of them came on the MLS while filming.</blockquote>


He recently posted four videos with maybe three dozen houses total for his area. I'm not sure what percentage of San Deigo county is the "North County Coastal region", but it's a large portion. If he's right, there's less than a thousand bank owned properties not on the MLS in all of San Deigo County, and most he showed were only foreclosed in the past month or two (that is, they will be listed soon). Orange County can't have 15 times as much, nor Riverside 50 times.



I believe the major "shadow inventory" is in houses that have had an NOD issued but have not been foreclosed upon yet. Once the banks actually take possession, it looks like they typically put the house on the market quickly.
 
[quote author="earthbm" date=1248324643]3m people in OC ~ 1m households, so BofA holds ~1.5% of the housing stock. If you say that BofA is 50% of the market, this makes 3% of the housig stock as REOs. Not implausible.</blockquote>


Foreclosure radar only shows about 8000 total REOs in the last 365 days.



BofA's REO page only shows about 350 properties in OC.



Countrywide's shows about 1100 in OC.



Possibilities:



1) the 15000 number is wrong.

2) mailing in the keys is super popular if the 15,000 is right

3) REOs are being moved off the books and kept off the bank's REO pages



For BofA to be holding 15,000 REOs in OC, they alone would need to have absorb and not sold 600+ REOs a month for the last two years.



I suspect the real number is that BofA knows they're 'going to eat' 15,000 REOs meaning they haven't completed the paperwork or foreclosure process but one look at the numbers and 'they know' the homeowner would be stupid to stay and pay the kind of loss they're looking at. Heck, they probably haven't even filed the NOD on many yet. That would be my guess.
 
[quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1248344296][quote author="earthbm" date=1248324643]3m people in OC ~ 1m households, so BofA holds ~1.5% of the housing stock. If you say that BofA is 50% of the market, this makes 3% of the housig stock as REOs. Not implausible.</blockquote>


Foreclosure radar only shows about 8000 total REOs in the last 365 days.



BofA's REO page only shows about 350 properties in OC.



Countrywide's shows about 1100 in OC.



Possibilities:



1) the 15000 number is wrong.

2) mailing in the keys is super popular if the 15,000 is right

3) REOs are being moved off the books and kept off the bank's REO pages



For BofA to be holding 15,000 REOs in OC, they alone would need to have absorb and not sold 600+ REOs a month for the last two years.



I suspect the real number is that BofA knows they're 'going to eat' 15,000 REOs meaning they haven't completed the paperwork or foreclosure process but one look at the numbers and 'they know' the homeowner would be stupid to stay and pay the kind of loss they're looking at. Heck, they probably haven't even filed the NOD on many yet. That would be my guess.</blockquote>
My friend is 8 months past due on his BofA/Countrywide mortgage and still no NOD filed.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1248354942][quote author="No_Such_Reality" date=1248344296][quote author="earthbm" date=1248324643]3m people in OC ~ 1m households, so BofA holds ~1.5% of the housing stock. If you say that BofA is 50% of the market, this makes 3% of the housig stock as REOs. Not implausible.</blockquote>


Foreclosure radar only shows about 8000 total REOs in the last 365 days.



BofA's REO page only shows about 350 properties in OC.



Countrywide's shows about 1100 in OC.



Possibilities:



1) the 15000 number is wrong.

2) mailing in the keys is super popular if the 15,000 is right

3) REOs are being moved off the books and kept off the bank's REO pages



For BofA to be holding 15,000 REOs in OC, they alone would need to have absorb and not sold 600+ REOs a month for the last two years.



I suspect the real number is that BofA knows they're 'going to eat' 15,000 REOs meaning they haven't completed the paperwork or foreclosure process but one look at the numbers and 'they know' the homeowner would be stupid to stay and pay the kind of loss they're looking at. Heck, they probably haven't even filed the NOD on many yet. That would be my guess.</blockquote>
My friend is 8 months past due on his BofA/Countrywide mortgage and still no NOD filed.</blockquote>


Wow. It usually takes at least 6 months after the NOD before the bank actually forecloses, so your friend will get at least 14 months of free rent at a minimum, probably more. Possibly much more. Once this "free rent for a year or more" phenomenon becomes more well-known amoungst the general public, the more people will stop paying their mortgages. The banks need to nip this in the bud for their long term survival.



Maybe the 15k number is the number of BoA/Countrywide loans that are past due but haven't been foreclosed upon, including ones with NODs and ones without. I can believe that there is that many of them owned by BoA in the OC.
 
The "stop paying and live rent-free" idea hasn't exactly been a secret. Just look at this NYT article from May:



<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/magazine/17foreclosure-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/magazine/17foreclosure-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1</a>
 
I know of two families who have stopped paying their mortgage specifically so that they can try for a loan mod. Their lenders told them that there is nothing to talk about as long as they are paying on their mortgage.









For more than a year folks were posting that loan mods were so much cheaper than foreclosure, so the banks were stupid not to do loan mods and principal reductions. The banks knew all along what the consequences of loan mods and principal reductions were.
 
For those who do not believe this number to be true, I implore to re-read what IR wrote. This isn't actual REO inventory, but inventory plus projected inventory. It is the backlog in the process which is the problem. The rate in which the NODs remain steady, NTSs increasing, and trustee sales are increasing, the banks and IR know what they are talking about. I love Jim the Realtor, but he has no true idea of what is happening with the NODs and NTSs, let alone the issues at the auction, or the poor performance of the MBS pools, that continue to get worse and the amount that are stuck in "foreclosure" continues to pile up. Hope is a four letter word, and this is what many are clinging to. I cling to the stats, and that is why I have been right for the last three years. This backlog is ugly.
 
well, even if TheOC has half the rate of 90d delinquency that LA county does, that would be 5% of mortgages (9.6% for LAC).



1M housing units-30% paid off = 700k times 5% 90d = 35k at 90d.



maybe the 15k units that BAC is anticipating isn't so far fetched, then?
 
There are now 856 Irvine homes in some stage of foreclosure per Foreclosure Radar. Wasn't it just last week that I got excited that Irvine broke the 800 mark? If it breaks the 900 mark next week or even the following week, I won't be excited... I will be scared. Since Foreclosure Radar only shows 500 pins at a time, and since it doesn't get any worse visually, some might think it is not getting worse because of that, I will separate the NODs from the NTSs and REOs. I may have to rethink that, since there are 499 NODs currently...



I cut off about 5-8 down at the bottom in this one.



http://i31.tinypic.com/ibvtbq.jpg



I cut off one at the top and bottom in this one.



http://i30.tinypic.com/2ufyr5t.jpg



It's a good thing sales have picked up, otherwise the rapid increase in foreclosures would really be a problem.



Another thing to add to IR's point of backlog in the works... I looked at 16 of the hundreds and hundreds of MBS pools of Countrywide's from 06 and 07. That is over $11 BILLION dollars worth of current balances in just the 16 pools I looked at. Keep in mind 60% of these loans were originated in California, so the majority are here in CA. What I noticed were the percentages of 30, 60, 90 day lates and REOs were pretty steady or slightly increasing, but the amount going into foreclosure were steadily increasing. In other words, six months ago the percentage in foreclosure was 10%, then 11%, 12%, 13%, 14%, and now 15%. All the pools had an average of 15% in foreclosure. This means they are getting stuck there, and they are not moving through the system. They will eventually, but by then many of those 30, 60, and 90 day lates will have rolled into the foreclosure process.



BTW, just because the loans are in the foreclosure process doesn't mean that they have been recorded at the county. I have evidence that homes were scheduled for the auction, but the NTS was never filed, and it is still in default. I repeat, the back log is HUGE!
 
Let's say all of these foreclosures hit the market today (all the P, A, B pins). At current sales rates, how long will it take for the market to absorb them all?
 
[quote author="QHBruin" date=1248475018]Let's say all of these foreclosures hit the market today (all the P, A, B pins). At current sales rates, how long will it take for the market to absorb them all?</blockquote>


Irvine 92602 $602,000 -2.0% 31 10.7%

Irvine 92603 $792,500 -12.9% 35 52.2%

Irvine 92604 $540,000 3.8% 24 50.0%

Irvine 92606 $680,000 33.3% 16 -20.0%

Irvine 92612 $473,000 -12.4% 28 55.6%

Irvine 92614 $493,000 -3.3% 23 21.1%

Irvine 92618 $357,500 -39.6% 17 -22.7%

Irvine 92620 $535,000 -26.3% 48 41.2%



so we had 222 toal sales in June



So just to wipe out the foreclosure radar dots, it would take 4 months if sales stayed at June's rate.
 
And just to add on to that....here is the amount for sale on redfin per zip code



Its hard to know how much you should add onto the dots since probably alot of those dots are for sale (although there are plenty that are not for sale)





92602 - 61

92603 - 163

92604 - 65

92606 - 44

92612 - 184

92614 - 42

92618 - 67

92620 - 61



So 687 total that are on sale on redfin
 
Some of the inventory is here:



<a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=am4VMDGoSAPY&">Home Vacancies Rise in U.S. to Record Amid Recession</a>



April 27 (Bloomberg) -- A record 19.1 million homes stood unoccupied in the first quarter and the U.S. homeownership rate fell as the recession sapped demand for real estate.



The number of vacant homes, including foreclosures, properties for sale and vacation properties, jumped from 18.6 million a year earlier, the U.S. Census Bureau said in a report today. Households that own their own residence declined for the third straight quarter to 67.3 percent.



The U.S. financial crisis and falling home prices have shattered the confidence of homebuyers. The percentage of people who said they plan to buy a home in the next six months dropped to a 26-year low in March, according to the Conference Board in New York. Job losses will continue to erode real estate demand, according to an April 23 report by Mark Fleming, chief economist for First American CoreLogic Inc. in Santa Ana, California.



?We expect home prices to continue to decline into 2010 as economic conditions and excess housing inventories dampen prices,? Fleming said in the report. ?Decreases are now being driven by rising unemployment and a high volume of distressed home sales.?



The percentage of all U.S. homes empty and for sale, known as the vacancy rate, fell to 2.7 percent in the first quarter. It hit an all-time high of 2.9 percent in the first and fourth quarters of 2008, the Census Bureau said.



<strong>Giving Up</strong>



The vacancy rate fell as the number of homes on the market declined because they were sold or because their owners gave up trying to market them. The inventory of homes on the market averaged 3.7 million in each of 2009?s first three months, according to data from the National Association of Realtors. Last year, the monthly average was 4.2 million.



There were 130.4 million homes in the U.S. in the first quarter, the Census Bureau said. In addition to the 2.1 million empty properties for sale, the report counted 4.2 million vacant homes for rent and 4.9 million seasonal properties that are only used for part of the year.



Foreclosures are included in a part of the Census Bureau that also includes vacation homes intended for year-round use and homes that are unoccupied because they are under renovation. There were 7.9 million such properties empty in the first quarter, up from 7.5 million a year earlier, the report said.



Foreclosures could also be counted as vacant homes for sale or rent, or as owner-occupied properties if lenders have not yet evicted previous owners, the agency said.



<strong>Job Losses</strong>



The economy has lost about 5.1 million jobs since the recession began in December 2007, the biggest drop of the post- war era. Economists surveyed by Bloomberg in early April said unemployment probably will rise to 9.5 percent by the end of the year, up from March?s 25-year high of 8.5 percent.



The share of mortgages in foreclosure rose to an all-time high of 3.3 percent in the fourth quarter, the Mortgage Bankers Association said in a March 5 report. Delinquencies, or the percentage of home loans that have payments 30 days or more overdue, increased to 7.88 percent, the highest in records dating to 1972, the Washington-based trade group said.



Banks held $11.5 billion of foreclosed properties in the fourth quarter, up from $6.5 billion in the year-earlier period, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. in Washington.





<a href="http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/07/near-record-home-vacancies-in-us/">From Barry at the Big Picture:</a>



This is an astonishing datapoint:



?There were 18.7 million vacant homes in the U.S. during the second quarter as the steepest recession in 50 years sapped demand for real estate and banks seized properties from delinquent borrowers.



The number of vacant properties, including foreclosures, residences for sale and vacation homes, was little changed from 18.6 million a year earlier, the U.S. Census Bureau said in a report today. Households that own their own residence stood at 67.3 percent, seasonally adjusted.



Home values dropped 33 percent since 2006, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller index, and the unemployment rate in June rose to the highest in almost 26 years. Tumbling home prices and rising job losses have thwarted government efforts to reverse the housing decline at the heart of the longest U.S. recession since the 1930s.?



Note that the recent record in April of this year was 19.2 million in April 2009.



As Peter Boockvar points out, Commerce just released Q2 Home Ownership rates. Its now at 67.4%, way off the record high of 69.2% in the last quarter of 2004. For comparison?s sake, in 1965 the rate was 65.3%.

<strong>

For those people looking for a bounce back, we may still be reverting back towards the long term mean.



With little or no pent up demand for housing, it?s hard to see how vacancies or ownership point are a bottom stat . . .</strong>



[Note: I updated the headline to reflect the higher Q1 data released in April '09]
 
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