REOs Leased by Bank Considered Shadow Inventory?

[traceimage_IHB]

OK, so Skippy was a little annoying, ok, maybe a lot, but I am going to be frank here.... well, y'all know I'm a woman, so I'll be Frankette..... I did see a total double standard in the chastisations. The "in" crowd was able to say things equal or worse insult wise and not get condemned. I agree, his arguments did not make sense and he was a bit rude, but many of you are rude with your snark. If he was banned, then it makes me think that this board is really only for the insiders. Let's face it, the people who are continually shunned go away on their own and don't require banning.

Skipper would have either left on his own or perhaps even managed to tough it out enough to get some acceptance. There are a number of us who had tough inductions, but ultimately have become part of the community. IHO? USC? Heck, I came on here swinging my bear claws, but toughed it out while reading/educating myself. Anyway, the guy wasn't very pleasant, but Winex was worse and he didn't get banned... just left on his accord. I think Skippy should have been given the same opportunity to either learn a little about how to properly debate (and maybe even where this crazy market may lead) or leave on his own accord. If it weren't for so much double standard, I wouldn't have said a word.

I absolutely agree.

I didn't read all of the Skipper threads, but from what I did read, it really didn't seem like his "personal attacks" were any worse than what was said to him.

I'm really disappointed to hear that he has been banned.

 

[graphrix_IHB]

OK, so Skippy was a little annoying, ok, maybe a lot, but I am going to be frank here.... well, y'all know I'm a woman, so I'll be Frankette..... I did see a total double standard in the chastisations. The "in" crowd was able to say things equal or worse insult wise and not get condemned. I agree, his arguments did not make sense and he was a bit rude, but many of you are rude with your snark. If he was banned, then it makes me think that this board is really only for the insiders. Let's face it, the people who are continually shunned go away on their own and don't require banning.

Skipper would have either left on his own or perhaps even managed to tough it out enough to get some acceptance. There are a number of us who had tough inductions, but ultimately have become part of the community. IHO? USC? Heck, I came on here swinging my bear claws, but toughed it out while reading/educating myself. Anyway, the guy wasn't very pleasant, but Winex was worse and he didn't get banned... just left on his accord. I think Skippy should have been given the same opportunity to either learn a little about how to properly debate (and maybe even where this crazy market may lead) or leave on his own accord. If it weren't for so much double standard, I wouldn't have said a word.

I respectfully disagree. IR scolded me twice in the way that I handled skippy and the way that I handled Robert. I can dig it up and quote it if you like. This happens a lot when things like this go down, people forget that while he may have been "attacked" the one attacking got scolded just the same. The difference being once scolded, I took the high road and starting following the rules. Skippy didn't and in fact his "attacking" became even worse after several warnings over and over and over again. I even had to edit his malicious posts because they were so personal and offensive.

And personally I am getting tired of the double standard accusation, when clearly there is evidence that points otherwise. It's like everyone wants to focus on the bad, and never see the good points. The double standard accusation is the same thing that many are doing right now. Funny, that no one remembers IR scolding me. Funny, that as soon as I started to behave like an adult and the way a moderator should, I still get accused as having a double standard. Sorry, but skippy got warned (SEVERAL TIMES AND REPEATEDLY BY MORE THAN ONE MODERATOR), and I got a warning too, but I started behaving and he didn't. The only double standard here is everyone accusing me/us of a double standard when we have followed the rules. All he had to do was take the high road, and start acting like a respectful adult. I did, and if I didn't then I should have been banned too. But guess what? When someone calls me out for bad behavior, I correct it. That is why I am still here and skippy isn't.

I think it sucks that skippy is gone, he was one bull who actually would post some data... sometimes, and have a lively debate, but all he had to do was use an ounce of respect and he would still be here today.

FWIW, his banning was a consensus decision, and that includes people who are not moderators.

 

[Nude_IHB]

Again, you are all missing the point: He was asked to moderate his tone and abrasiveness with regard to the personal attacks by every moderator this forum has... and he REFUSED. The mods let it go on much longer (that means WEEKS) than any other forum would have tolerated similar behavior. He was ridiculed for his content and he replied with more venom, not more facts. Finally today, after a full three weeks of warnings and explanations on why the attacks weren't acceptable, and after he went nuts in the blog comments, the moderators finally banned him. The didn't ban him for his content, they banned him for his relentless pursuit of argument with the mods and IR.

Did graphrix cross the line, sure. And he was also warned to knock it off. Did I cross the line? You bet, because the mods were basically being hypocritical in not banning the guy and I was trying to make a point. When the thread was finally closed, I also eased up. Did others cross the line, certainly, but go back and read the posts to see who got nasty first and you'll see that it was invariably NewportSkipper who launches the first personal attacks. I don't know how many times you have to be warned to "be nice" and ignore that warning before you get banned, but in NewportSkipper's case is was roughly 65. Had I been a mod, he would have been gone after the third one was ignored.

I don't like the rules, but if you are going to make them then you have to enforce them or you just become a joke. There might be a valid argument that it was allowed to go too far and that graphrix should have been muzzled earlier when the clash was still managable, but the fact remains that NewportSkipper was the one posting in a manner that he was very well aware was unacceptable to IR and zovall. His actions got him banned, not his views on real estate.

 

[LoudRoar_IHB]

Bottom line: maybe Skipper just talks like that. He has to use insane analogies and insults to make his points.

Skipper should NEVER have to think about what he is posting. Just write is and press post...boom. Edit later if needed.

I read everything he wrote, some hilarious, some just offensive.

Ignore button ftw.

 

[Daedalus_IHB]

The mods let it go on much longer (that means WEEKS) than any other forum would have tolerated similar behavior.

+1 A site I used to mod on would have BANDEDED him in 3 days tops, probably without even a vote.

 

[Minimorty_IHB]

Again, you are all missing the point: He was asked to moderate his tone and abrasiveness with regard to the personal attacks by every moderator this forum has... and he REFUSED. The mods let it go on much longer (that means WEEKS) than any other forum would have tolerated similar behavior. He was ridiculed for his content and he replied with more venom, not more facts. Finally today, after a full three weeks of warnings and explanations on why the attacks weren't acceptable, and after he went nuts in the blog comments, the moderators finally banned him. The didn't ban him for his content, they banned him for his relentless pursuit of argument with the mods and IR.

Did graphrix cross the line, sure. And he was also warned to knock it off. Did I cross the line? You bet, because the mods were basically being hypocritical in not banning the guy and I was trying to make a point. When the thread was finally closed, I also eased up. Did others cross the line, certainly, but go back and read the posts to see who got nasty first and you'll see that it was invariably NewportSkipper who launches the first personal attacks. I don't know how many times you have to be warned to "be nice" and ignore that warning before you get banned, but in NewportSkipper's case is was roughly 65. Had I been a mod, he would have been gone after the third one was ignored.

I don't like the rules, but if you are going to make them then you have to enforce them or you just become a joke. There might be a valid argument that it was allowed to go too far and that graphrix should have been muzzled earlier when the clash was still managable, but the fact remains that NewportSkipper was the one posting in a manner that he was very well aware was unacceptable to IR and zovall. His actions got him banned, not his views on real estate.

Nude, I do not really see anything wrong with this. If he wants to take the opposing view and argue with the mods, he should be able to. Even if all he has are his opinions. He will be less credible, but he should still have the right. He made some extremely valid points regarding the "recommended" realtor on IHB that were never refuted or addressed by IR (unless i missed it). Unless some of his postings got removed from the blog that I missed, while his points were absolutely contrary to what IR was trying to prove, I still dont think it was over the line.

There should be no threat to IR or the moderators if some guy like SkipperDan is trying to take the other side of every argument. IR, Graphrix, etc. all have the data to back up their opinions and it should be clear enough to the rest of the readers who among you has a better argument.

 

[EvaLSeraphim_IHB]

Nude, I do not really see anything wrong with this. If he wants to take the opposing view and argue with the mods, he should be able to. Even if all he has are his opinions. He will be less credible, but he should still have the right. He made some extremely valid points regarding the "recommended" realtor on IHB that were never refuted or addressed by IR (unless i missed it). Unless some of his postings got removed from the blog that I missed, while his points were absolutely contrary to what IR was trying to prove, I still dont think it was over the line.

There should be no threat to IR or the moderators if some guy like SkipperDan is trying to take the other side of every argument. IR, Graphrix, etc. all have the data to back up their opinions and it should be clear enough to the rest of the readers who among you has a better argument.

I didn't like his tone or his rhetorical methods. I'm all for the discussion and analysis of differing opinions, but the pissing contest was very off putting - from the whole forum. Perhaps I'm just not "man" enough for the internet.

Moreover, I was deeply bothered by someone posting "information" that appeared to not have any factual basis and that the NS did not seem to care whether the information was accurate so long as it supported his opinion / argument. For me, if I make a claim to have knowledge or expertise in a certain area, I feel a moral obligation to provide accurate information because other people, rightly or wrongly, might be relying on it. If I can't do so, then I make sure to qualify it with, "this is my recollection," or "generally, but your circumstances may differ in an important way," etc. From what I read, that was not the case with NS.

Lastly, this site is private property. Like I have the right to eject an unruly guest from a party in my home, the owners of this site can refuse continued participation of anyone they want for any reason they want.

I am sad that NS and his counter-arguments are gone, but I don't miss his bad attitude one bit. Unfortunately, he demonstrated that his attitude was inextricably linked with everything else. We have all lost due to the choices he made.

 

[stepping_up_IHB]

OK, so Skippy was a little annoying, ok, maybe a lot, but I am going to be frank here.... well, y'all know I'm a woman, so I'll be Frankette..... I did see a total double standard in the chastisations. The "in" crowd was able to say things equal or worse insult wise and not get condemned. I agree, his arguments did not make sense and he was a bit rude, but many of you are rude with your snark. If he was banned, then it makes me think that this board is really only for the insiders. Let's face it, the people who are continually shunned go away on their own and don't require banning.

Skipper would have either left on his own or perhaps even managed to tough it out enough to get some acceptance. There are a number of us who had tough inductions, but ultimately have become part of the community. IHO? USC? Heck, I came on here swinging my bear claws, but toughed it out while reading/educating myself. Anyway, the guy wasn't very pleasant, but Winex was worse and he didn't get banned... just left on his accord. I think Skippy should have been given the same opportunity to either learn a little about how to properly debate (and maybe even where this crazy market may lead) or leave on his own accord. If it weren't for so much double standard, I wouldn't have said a word.

I respectfully disagree. IR scolded me twice in the way that I handled skippy and the way that I handled Robert. I can dig it up and quote it if you like. This happens a lot when things like this go down, people forget that while he may have been "attacked" the one attacking got scolded just the same. The difference being once scolded, I took the high road and starting following the rules. Skippy didn't and in fact his "attacking" became even worse after several warnings over and over and over again. I even had to edit his malicious posts because they were so personal and offensive.

And personally I am getting tired of the double standard accusation, when clearly there is evidence that points otherwise. It's like everyone wants to focus on the bad, and never see the good points. The double standard accusation is the same thing that many are doing right now. Funny, that no one remembers IR scolding me. Funny, that as soon as I started to behave like an adult and the way a moderator should, I still get accused as having a double standard. Sorry, but skippy got warned (SEVERAL TIMES AND REPEATEDLY BY MORE THAN ONE MODERATOR), and I got a warning too, but I started behaving and he didn't. The only double standard here is everyone accusing me/us of a double standard when we have followed the rules. All he had to do was take the high road, and start acting like a respectful adult. I did, and if I didn't then I should have been banned too. But guess what? When someone calls me out for bad behavior, I correct it. That is why I am still here and skippy isn't.

I think it sucks that skippy is gone, he was one bull who actually would post some data... sometimes, and have a lively debate, but all he had to do was use an ounce of respect and he would still be here today.

FWIW, his banning was a consensus decision, and that includes people who are not moderators.

I only read the first few posts in the NS thread as it was obvious the entire thread was going to be a waste of time, so I may have missed something there or on the blog. Also, many of the posts that I did see had been edited, so again, I may have missed some name calling. What I did see was mild name calling on both sides, the other side being many of the regular posters.

Seeing what Eval just posted, I really think I must have missed some of the behavior.

I have to disagree with No_Vas' recollection of Winex. Anyone who disagreed with him was called stupid, idiot or moron, even when the opposing argument was winning the debate.

 

[irvine_home_owner_IHB]

Second point: It's pretty undeserved to see NewportSkipper go.

You're just mad because your mom is not here anymore.

Disclaimer #1: There is no proof that NewSkip is related to RoLar.

Disclaimer #2: There is no proof that NewSkip is either male or female.

The big difference between you and your mom is that you try to stay even keeled. Sure, you got into with a few (*cough* graph *cough*) but usually as a response in kind. NewSkip berated EVERYONE... and as I subtly tried to detail in my various responses to him, he was always the one who started the insults first. What many did was point out the errors in his data assertions and instead of trying to counter, he went the insult route.

But... I will give NewSkip props on something that may have irked IR more than most of us... he BBQed Shevy's listing descriptions both here and on the main blog. In all fairness, he is completely correct in the fact that IR makes fun of other realtors yet the IHB's "recommended" realtor is as if not more guilty of the same atrocities.

Would I have banned NewSkip? Probably not. But it would end up being more work for the moderators and I can understand their decision. Discussion is great, but only when the involved parties are willing to acknowledge errors and own up to it rather than resorting to tactics that just degrades the conversation.

And back to somewhat on-topic that RoLar mentioned... this REO wave has been delayed for quite a bit... and it makes people like me wonder if I could have waited to sell. I think I could have probably stayed in my house this last 8 months and sold now with minimal loss and I wouldn't have had to deal with the headache of moving twice (more on this later in one of my novella-style posts).

 

[traceimage_IHB]

I respectfully disagree. IR scolded me twice in the way that I handled skippy and the way that I handled Robert. I can dig it up and quote it if you like. This happens a lot when things like this go down, people forget that while he may have been "attacked" the one attacking got scolded just the same. The difference being once scolded, I took the high road and starting following the rules. Skippy didn't and in fact his "attacking" became even worse after several warnings over and over and over again. I even had to edit his malicious posts because they were so personal and offensive.

And personally I am getting tired of the double standard accusation, when clearly there is evidence that points otherwise. It's like everyone wants to focus on the bad, and never see the good points. The double standard accusation is the same thing that many are doing right now. Funny, that no one remembers IR scolding me. Funny, that as soon as I started to behave like an adult and the way a moderator should, I still get accused as having a double standard. Sorry, but skippy got warned (SEVERAL TIMES AND REPEATEDLY BY MORE THAN ONE MODERATOR), and I got a warning too, but I started behaving and he didn't. The only double standard here is everyone accusing me/us of a double standard when we have followed the rules. All he had to do was take the high road, and start acting like a respectful adult. I did, and if I didn't then I should have been banned too. But guess what? When someone calls me out for bad behavior, I correct it. That is why I am still here and skippy isn't.

I think it sucks that skippy is gone, he was one bull who actually would post some data... sometimes, and have a lively debate, but all he had to do was use an ounce of respect and he would still be here today.

FWIW, his banning was a consensus decision, and that includes people that are not moderators.

Graph, I am glad to hear you got a warning as well. I hope the admins would have been fair enough to ban you as well had you not changed your behavior. And not just you, but any longtime or newbie poster who broke the rules and disregarded warnings. Not that I would want anyone to leave the site, but the rules have to be enforced evenly and fairly. Otherwise they are a joke, as Nude mentioned.

But I do want to say - and maybe this isn't my place - but when you went into moderator mode you still sounded a bit like a bully. I remember reading some posts like (paraphrasing) "I'M WARNING YOU!", "do not test me!" and "you won't like it!" Even though you had changed your behavior by that time, it is hard to have credibility as a mod when you had already spent a couple of weeks down on his level.

 

[bltserv_IHB]

Skipper was entertaining if anything. I almost felt sorry for the guy. (I do think he was a man)

It was obvious he had some RE experience and was well versed in the lingo of Modifications.

I sensed he was a gentleman around my age as well. But there was some great bitterness in his style.

But when he just kept going on and on and on and on about "Income Property" like becoming a slumlord

over in Tustin Village. He lost all of what little credibility he had built up.

At that point some of us regulars. Me included. Started to bait him. Then you could see he was getting emotional

with his posting then editing almost every post once he got his anger going. He would try and edit out the insults

once he posted them and read them a second time a few moments later.

I thing his "coup de grace" was when he went over to the blog and tried to go toe to toe with IR in that same style

of his after he was on his last leg with Graph in the forums.

Conclusion: Skipper really was just a troll that lasted longer than he should have.

 

[CapitalismWorks_IHB]

Bid vs. Ask is not in reference to closed sales Rob. The point was that a whole bunch of asks are never going to hit the bid. These won't ever be recorded as sales. At least not until one of the two figures moves. The assumption is that asks will fall to the bid in a buyers market.

How is that measured? Looking at the average number of days on market?

I believe that the referenced bid/ask spread is refering the ask price of listed homes and the closed prices of comparable units. Naturally, the lower prices units will move faster all things being equal.

 

[no_vaseline_IHB]

I thing his "coup de grace" was when he went over to the blog and tried to go toe to toe with IR in that same style

of his after he was on his last leg with Graph in the forums.

He started there and ended there. He initally called IR out on the blog because some math IR had done was in error. Problem was, IR's math was correct and the guy was just a raving dolt. Ohwell.

 

[CapitalismWorks_IHB]

I thing his "coup de grace" was when he went over to the blog and tried to go toe to toe with IR in that same style

of his after he was on his last leg with Graph in the forums.

He started there and ended there. He initally called IR out on the blog because some math IR had done was in error. Problem was, IR's math was correct and the guy was just a raving dolt. Ohwell.

I tried to coax him back to sanity on the blog, mostly because I really did hope to see someone present the coherent bull case kept raving about. To no avail.

 

[caycifish_IHB]

Just to clear up any misinformation:

Moderators can alter data related to posts and threads (editing, moving, merging, spliting, closing) and can view your IP addresses.

ONLY admins (and, technically, "Super" admins) can change anything about your user account. (And I do think it's funny that there is code in there to keep Zovall from banning himself. )

 

[Formerbanker_IHB]

I'm a long time reader but have never posted a comment on a forum thread. I found Newport Skipper's posts and the ensuing back and forth as entertaining reading...for about a week. S/he was then a complete turnoff to the point it became irritating to try to read a thread in which s/he was involved. I appreciate the ban.

To address some comments as to why banks would want to hold REO...and I am only speaking only from my own experience (former bank regulator turned credit risk manager whose duties included overseeing problem assets and REO disposition from early 90's - 2007) but - usually, you want that REO off the books as quick as possible. It is a nonperforming asset. Even if it's leased out, the return is terrible. Let's use a generous example of say, a property on the books for $500M rented for $2M/mo. That $24M a year in rent (assuming you actually collect it), after property tax, prop mgmt expense, maintenance reserve, etc., might be $12M - $15M at best, or maybe 2% return. That's generous. And there is a direct expense to the bank to write down the asset's value if it declines while on the bank's books (plus you need a new valuation on the thing probably every year). If that $500M asset declines to $480M, bam, an addiitional $20M loss.

However, the volume of REO's being handled now is just astronomical and most banks are still just trying to get their REO management systems working well enought to handle the volumes, identify assets that are due for writedowns, and all while using employees who are learning on the job (the REO handlers of the early 90's are largely gone, from what I've heard through many grapevines, not that there were near enough to go around for today's volumes). I have read similar comments from other posters in the past and based on all I hear from people working the front lines, it is still the case. And I believe there's not an accounting firm around that can keep up with whether or not bank clients have written down the asset values sufficiently based on the data available from their clients...sBottom line, the current environment is conducive to favoring the banks leasing these REO's while they buy time to figure out which end is up...and by the time they figure out how much they should write down, the banks are hoping values will stabilize and they won't have to write down as much after all, in my opinion.

 

[no_vaseline_IHB]

To address some comments as to why banks would want to hold REO...and I am only speaking only from my own experience (former bank regulator turned credit risk manager whose duties included overseeing problem assets and REO disposition from early 90's - 2007) but - usually, you want that REO off the books as quick as possible. It is a nonperforming asset. Even if it's leased out, the return is terrible.

And now there's two of us! Welcome to the forum.

Everyone I knew/worked with in Special Assets from the early 1990s has left the business. It was like the industry thought they'd never need to get rid of a bad loan ever again.

 

[No_Such_Reality_IHB]

Again, you are all missing the point: He was asked to moderate his tone and abrasiveness with regard to the personal attacks by every moderator this forum has... and he REFUSED. The mods let it go on much longer (that means WEEKS) than any other forum would have tolerated similar behavior. He was ridiculed for his content and he replied with more venom, not more facts. Finally today, after a full three weeks of warnings and explanations on why the attacks weren't acceptable, and after he went nuts in the blog comments, the moderators finally banned him. The didn't ban him for his content, they banned him for his relentless pursuit of argument with the mods and IR.

Did graphrix cross the line, sure. And he was also warned to knock it off. Did I cross the line? You bet, because the mods were basically being hypocritical in not banning the guy and I was trying to make a point. When the thread was finally closed, I also eased up. Did others cross the line, certainly, but go back and read the posts to see who got nasty first and you'll see that it was invariably NewportSkipper who launches the first personal attacks. I don't know how many times you have to be warned to "be nice" and ignore that warning before you get banned, but in NewportSkipper's case is was roughly 65. Had I been a mod, he would have been gone after the third one was ignored.

I don't like the rules, but if you are going to make them then you have to enforce them or you just become a joke. There might be a valid argument that it was allowed to go too far and that graphrix should have been muzzled earlier when the clash was still managable, but the fact remains that NewportSkipper was the one posting in a manner that he was very well aware was unacceptable to IR and zovall. His actions got him banned, not his views on real estate.

I disagree. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree the NS brought it upon himself and ignored numerous warnings and subsequently the banning is deserved, however is there really any difference between a cute picture that slams a person and just saying 'that's moronic'? To be frank, I couldn't reliably pick who did the first dig in many cases. Was NS invariably abrasive and in denial of data, yes, but the first name calling or picture dig, I'm not to sure. But, I'll admit, I'm not go to bother to dig through the barrage of posts to determine it either.

 

[usctrojanman29_IHB]

I'm a long time reader but have never posted a comment on a forum thread. I found Newport Skipper's posts and the ensuing back and forth as entertaining reading...for about a week. S/he was then a complete turnoff to the point it became irritating to try to read a thread in which s/he was involved. I appreciate the ban.

To address some comments as to why banks would want to hold REO...and I am only speaking only from my own experience (former bank regulator turned credit risk manager whose duties included overseeing problem assets and REO disposition from early 90's - 2007) but - usually, you want that REO off the books as quick as possible. It is a nonperforming asset. Even if it's leased out, the return is terrible. Let's use a generous example of say, a property on the books for $500M rented for $2M/mo. That $24M a year in rent (assuming you actually collect it), after property tax, prop mgmt expense, maintenance reserve, etc., might be $12M - $15M at best, or maybe 2% return. That's generous. And there is a direct expense to the bank to write down the asset's value if it declines while on the bank's books (plus you need a new valuation on the thing probably every year). If that $500M asset declines to $480M, bam, an addiitional $20M loss.

However, the volume of REO's being handled now is just astronomical and most banks are still just trying to get their REO management systems working well enought to handle the volumes, identify assets that are due for writedowns, and all while using employees who are learning on the job (the REO handlers of the early 90's are largely gone, from what I've heard through many grapevines, not that there were near enough to go around for today's volumes). I have read similar comments from other posters in the past and based on all I hear from people working the front lines, it is still the case. And I believe there's not an accounting firm around that can keep up with whether or not bank clients have written down the asset values sufficiently based on the data available from their clients...sBottom line, the current environment is conducive to favoring the banks leasing these REO's while they buy time to figure out which end is up...and by the time they figure out how much they should write down, the banks are hoping values will stabilize and they won't have to write down as much after all, in my opinion.

Great post, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. I just wrapped up working on a 7+ month consulting project at a large regional bank where I would risk rate/downgrade commercial real estate loans. The bank had thousands of smaller commercial RE loans and did not have the staff to handle doing the loan reviews (when times were good there was no need to do reviews because everything was kicking ass). The bank is still staffing up their special assets department at the moment but they've gotten a better handle of what the issues are. They are also implementing Basel II to come up with an aggregate reserve of the tiny loans that will not get reviewed. I'm guesses there aren't many REO/special assets folks left from the 90s because it wasn't the most fun job around. I made calls to certain borrowers to try to get an idea of what was going on and see if maybe they might benefit from a loan mod but the tone from them was basically F-YOU. I've heard that many banks are considering of using consultants to assist them nowadays and with so many bankers on the street it seems to be working out for now.

 

[Formerbanker_IHB]

To address some comments as to why banks would want to hold REO...and I am only speaking only from my own experience (former bank regulator turned credit risk manager whose duties included overseeing problem assets and REO disposition from early 90's - 2007) but - usually, you want that REO off the books as quick as possible. It is a nonperforming asset. Even if it's leased out, the return is terrible.

And now there's two of us! Welcome to the forum.

Everyone I knew/worked with in Special Assets from the early 1990s has left the business. It was like the industry thought they'd never need to get rid of a bad loan ever again.

Thanks for the welcome. I agree with you. If this catastrophe of overlending and subsequent deflating of the massive RE bubble had happened in 2003 when it should have -had the Fed done it's job -(oops, I digressed...), you'd have had alot more experienced special asset managers still in the biz. It also seems to me that in the early 90's, a lot of lenders became 'special asset managers' to handle the volume, and they at least had true and substantial credit backgrounds...so the leap wasn't anywhere near as big as I think it is with these folks trying to run special assets and REO depts. these days. The newbies being converted to asset management with their sales and/or loan origination management backgrounds are that much further behind the curve in trying to implement effective REO disposition programs.