Redfin vs. full service agent?

S

sregli_IHB

New member
I am a long time lurker (>1 year) and really appreciate all of the help I have received during that time. We are currently renters but would like to become first time buyers in the next year. Thanks in part to this forum we have continued to rent, which has turned out to be a great decision (we would have been ready to buy around 2006). Now we are getting closer to becoming home buyers, and I thought I would finally post some of the questions I have.



We have been working with Redfin since January in search of an approx. 2000 sf SFR in Irvine. My husband and I differed on what we wanted, but we now have determined we would like a newer (1998+) home. We started to get more serious about searching in the spring, going on tours with Redfin agents. I thought Redfin was a good match because I like to do a lot of research online myself. So I thought that since I was doing a lot of the legwork anyway, why not get a rebate. We finally put in our first bid on a house in West Irvine (28 Granada) in June. We made a full asking price offer and our Redfin agent barely got a call back from the listing agent. There was talk of all cash offers, over asking, etc (12 offers). So I figured the house must have sold for a great deal over asking. When escrow closed, it turned out that it went for $4000 over asking...not much. And escrow took 45 days or so, which leads me to believe it wasn't "all cash." So why didn't they even call our agent to let us counter? Is it because they aren't giving Redfin a chance? What did we do wrong?



Now today we wanted to put in a bid on an REO in Northpark. We haven't heard back from Redfin (they were waiting for a return call from the listing agent). I am beginning to think that Redfin is not the best match for us. I think a little more service might be useful. Any ideas on how to increase our chances of getting a home? We have twins who will be starting kindergarten in a year. We basically want a house by the time they start school in fall 2010. We are not in a huge hurry, but I am beginning to feel like Irvine prices are not going to come down much more. What is with these all cash offers?? Our Redfin agent told me today that there were 3 all cash offers on a >$1 M home her client was bidding on recently!!



Thanks for any help!
 
<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/member/1052/">Contact IrvineRealtor</a>, and he should know more about what is really going on with the homes in the market you are looking at. Plus, he has a newer model BS meter to help find out if the all cash buyer is true or not.
 
[quote author="chilenita" date=1251028190]I am a long time lurker (>1 year) and really appreciate all of the help I have received during that time. We are currently renters but would like to become first time buyers in the next year. Thanks in part to this forum we have continued to rent, which has turned out to be a great decision (we would have been ready to buy around 2006). Now we are getting closer to becoming home buyers, and I thought I would finally post some of the questions I have.



We have been working with Redfin since January in search of an approx. 2000 sf SFR in Irvine. My husband and I differed on what we wanted, but we now have determined we would like a newer (1998+) home. We started to get more serious about searching in the spring, going on tours with Redfin agents. I thought Redfin was a good match because I like to do a lot of research online myself. So I thought that since I was doing a lot of the legwork anyway, why not get a rebate. We finally put in our first bid on a house in West Irvine (28 Granada) in June. We made a full asking price offer and our Redfin agent barely got a call back from the listing agent. There was talk of all cash offers, over asking, etc (12 offers). So I figured the house must have sold for a great deal over asking. When escrow closed, it turned out that it went for $4000 over asking...not much. And escrow took 45 days or so, which leads me to believe it wasn't "all cash." So why didn't they even call our agent to let us counter? Is it because they aren't giving Redfin a chance? What did we do wrong?



Now today we wanted to put in a bid on an REO in Northpark. We haven't heard back from Redfin (they were waiting for a return call from the listing agent). I am beginning to think that Redfin is not the best match for us. I think a little more service might be useful. Any ideas on how to increase our chances of getting a home? We have twins who will be starting kindergarten in a year. We basically want a house by the time they start school in fall 2010. We are not in a huge hurry, but I am beginning to feel like Irvine prices are not going to come down much more. What is with these all cash offers?? Our Redfin agent told me today that there were 3 all cash offers on a >$1 M home her client was bidding on recently!!



Thanks for any help!</blockquote>
I don't think the problem is Redfin per se, I think it's more of the particular agent that got assigned/selected for you. Redfin has a nice model where they kick you back 50% of the buyer's agent commission after you close escrow via a check but the downside is that that rebate will be taxable income via a 1099. There are also full service agents out there that do and will contribute a portion of their commission to their buyers for their lender and closing costs (unlike the contributed Redfin rebate, this commission contribution will not be taxable and will just reduce the cost basis of the home by the contribution amount). Remember that even more important than what an agent will kickback to you towards your escrow, is that you have a good working relationship with your agent and know that they will fight for you and have great communication skills (i.e. don't take forever to respond to your calls and e-mails).



Believe me, you are not alone in your frustration. I'm working with a few buyers that are looking for an Irvine home (either a start home or a move-up home) and there's just a lack of REO and organic inventory (sellers who have equity in their homes) that's causing a mini buyers fenzy. I'm thinking that the fall and winter will bring some more inventory onto the market which may provide more opportunities for home buyers. We also know from Graph that the REO pipeline of "shadow inventory" (foreclosed properties that have not been listed) continues to grow day by day. As I tell my other buyers....BE PATIENT.



Btw, if PM me the address of the property that you guys lost out on by $4k I'll let you know how large of a loan the buyer of that property obtained to close escrow.
 
I used to think going with a discount realtor (or a relative-realtor who kicked back some commission) was worth it but I would really recommend someone who knows the area and even has a rapport with local listing agents.



Think about it... if you're a listing agent... would your rather work with a buyer's agent that your familiar with and knows the ins and outs of the area, or some random agent? If they both come in with similar offers, who would you recommend your seller to look at first?



In addition, a local agent will be more informed on buying trends, comparative inventory and current market psychology.



Good agents are worth their commission... some... more than others.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1251035530]I used to think going with a discount realtor (or a relative-realtor who kicked back some commission) was worth it but I would really recommend someone who knows the area and even has a rapport with local listing agents.



Think about it... if you're a listing agent... would your rather work with a buyer's agent that your familiar with and knows the ins and outs of the area, or some random agent? If they both come in with similar offers, who would you recommend your seller to look at first?



In addition, a local agent will be more informed on buying trends, comparative inventory and current market psychology.



Good agents are worth their commission... some... more than others.</blockquote>
Or as a buyer's agent it is nice dealing with a listing agent that is aware of where the market is and has both common sense and some ethics. One time I ran across a listing in Irvine by an agent from LA (related to the sellers) and they listed a Columbus Grove property as an Oak Creek property along with an inaccurate address and incorrect sf and bedroom count (a short sale listing). And of course it took her 3 days to respond to my 2 voicemails.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1251035530]In addition, <strong>a local agent</strong> will be more informed on buying trends, comparative inventory and current market psychology.</blockquote>


Just curious - where do the Redfin agents come from? I thought they were probably local Realtors, are they not?
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1251036905][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1251035530]In addition, <strong>a local agent</strong> will be more informed on buying trends, comparative inventory and current market psychology.</blockquote>


Just curious - where do the Redfin agents come from? I thought they were probably local Realtors, are they not?</blockquote>
They are somewhat local in the sense that if you click on Orange County you have 2 agents to pick from (even though the bio for one states that she handles the San Diego area) even though you have 15 agents to pick from in the Inland Empire. If there are only 2 agents that the all the inflow of buyer traffic that Redfin generates it's no wonder why I have heard complaints of a lack of timely communication and limited knowledge of the Irvine market. There's no way an agent can be very knowledgable about every city in Orange County, let alone half the cities.
 
The Redfin agents don't seem super knowledgeable about the Irvine market. And as stated above, they have to work with all of Orange County, which is a huge area. The people who show you the houses are really people who simply let you in the door. Then you work with another realtor when you are ready to bid. I just feel like we are falling through the cracks.



Overall, we are patient about buying a house. I, too, believe that more inventory will hit at the end of the year. And with unemployment still creeping higher in CA, I just don't see how the prices can remain high. The CA budget crisis is just starting to work its way through the economy (more teacher layoffs, higher prices for things, fewer services). Prices have to fall...



Thanks for everyone's help. I think we will try to be patient for a little longer, then maybe go with a full-service agent who really knows the market.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1251030541][quote author="chilenita" date=1251028190]I am a long time lurker (>1 year) and really appreciate all of the help I have received during that time. We are currently renters but would like to become first time buyers in the next year. Thanks in part to this forum we have continued to rent, which has turned out to be a great decision (we would have been ready to buy around 2006). Now we are getting closer to becoming home buyers, and I thought I would finally post some of the questions I have.



We have been working with Redfin since January in search of an approx. 2000 sf SFR in Irvine. My husband and I differed on what we wanted, but we now have determined we would like a newer (1998+) home. We started to get more serious about searching in the spring, going on tours with Redfin agents. I thought Redfin was a good match because I like to do a lot of research online myself. So I thought that since I was doing a lot of the legwork anyway, why not get a rebate. We finally put in our first bid on a house in West Irvine (28 Granada) in June. We made a full asking price offer and our Redfin agent barely got a call back from the listing agent. There was talk of all cash offers, over asking, etc (12 offers). So I figured the house must have sold for a great deal over asking. When escrow closed, it turned out that it went for $4000 over asking...not much. And escrow took 45 days or so, which leads me to believe it wasn't "all cash." So why didn't they even call our agent to let us counter? Is it because they aren't giving Redfin a chance? What did we do wrong?



Now today we wanted to put in a bid on an REO in Northpark. We haven't heard back from Redfin (they were waiting for a return call from the listing agent). I am beginning to think that Redfin is not the best match for us. I think a little more service might be useful. Any ideas on how to increase our chances of getting a home? We have twins who will be starting kindergarten in a year. We basically want a house by the time they start school in fall 2010. We are not in a huge hurry, but I am beginning to feel like Irvine prices are not going to come down much more. What is with these all cash offers?? Our Redfin agent told me today that there were 3 all cash offers on a >$1 M home her client was bidding on recently!!



Thanks for any help!</blockquote>
I don't think the problem is Redfin per se, I think it's more of the particular agent that got assigned/selected for you. Redfin has a nice model where they kick you back 50% of the buyer's agent commission after you close escrow via a check but the downside is that that rebate will be taxable income via a 1099. There are also full service agents out there that do and will contribute a portion of their commission to their buyers for their lender and closing costs (unlike the contributed Redfin rebate, this commission contribution will not be taxable and will just reduce the cost basis of the home by the contribution amount). Remember that even more important than what an agent will kickback to you towards your escrow, is that you have a good working relationship with your agent and know that they will fight for you and have great communication skills (i.e. don't take forever to respond to your calls and e-mails).



Believe me, you are not alone in your frustration. I'm working with a few buyers that are looking for an Irvine home (either a start home or a move-up home) and there's just a lack of REO and organic inventory (sellers who have equity in their homes) that's causing a mini buyers fenzy. I'm thinking that the fall and winter will bring some more inventory onto the market which may provide more opportunities for home buyers. We also know from Graph that the REO pipeline of "shadow inventory" (foreclosed properties that have not been listed) continues to grow day by day. As I tell my other buyers....BE PATIENT.



Btw, if PM me the address of the property that you guys lost out on by $4k I'll let you know how large of a loan the buyer of that property obtained to close escrow.</blockquote>


Not exactly true that the redfin commission rebate is taxable. The IRS has ruled on the matter:



http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2007/03/the_taxman_does_not_cometh.html
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1251037538][quote author="SoCal78" date=1251036905][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1251035530]In addition, <strong>a local agent</strong> will be more informed on buying trends, comparative inventory and current market psychology.</blockquote>


Just curious - where do the Redfin agents come from? I thought they were probably local Realtors, are they not?</blockquote>
They are somewhat local in the sense that if you click on Orange County you have 2 agents to pick from (even though the bio for one states that she handles the San Diego area) even though you have 15 agents to pick from in the Inland Empire. If there are only 2 agents that the all the inflow of buyer traffic that Redfin generates it's no wonder why I have heard complaints of a lack of timely communication and limited knowledge of the Irvine market. There's no way an agent can be very knowledgable about every city in Orange County, let alone half the cities.</blockquote>


My understanding is that the Orange County agents are salaried Redfin employees, while the Inland Empire agents are normal, local agents with their own agencies, who Redfin subcontract with, willing to work at a lower rate. They must not get enough traffic to pay for a full-time agent in the IE.
 
And even with an OC <strong>local</strong> or even an Irvine <strong>local</strong> agent, you will find that some know more about certain areas than others.



You always see those "Area Specialists" or people like Mr. Quail Hill, which is fine if you are shopping in that area, but it would be more beneficial if they not only know those certain areas but can give you perspective on other ones for comparisons.



I would like an agent who has both specific and broad knowledge... or at least know more about the area than I do (it's sad when you have to give your agent directions to homes you want to see).



For example, I would definitely work with an Irvine agent who can tell me the following:



1. Newer neighborhoods (built in the last 15 years) with 3-car garages.

2. Newer neighborhoods that have BK-style garages.



Heh.
 
"What is the Redfin commission refund?

If you buy a property through one of Redfin's own agents, we refund to you half of the commission that we receive from the seller. The convention in most markets is for the seller to pay 3% of the final price as a commission to the buyer's agent, in which case you would get 1.5% of the purchase price as a refund. We have refunded nearly $100 million in commissions.



Our minimum fee is $5,500, so if the total commission is less than $11,000, we still keep $5,500 and refund to you the rest.



If you buy a home through one of Redfin's partner agents, we refund you 15% rather than 50% of the buyer's agent's fee. The partner agent may provide services that Redfin's own agents do not. The website will always be clear about whether you are requesting service from one of our own agents or one of our partner agents.

"



Per the Redfin customer service rep, the IRS says the remainder after covering closing cost is a non-taxable refund.



However, I'd caveat to say that USCTrojanMan does a better job than Redfin. So if you are comparing Redfin, you should probably see what USCTrojanman can do versus his cost.
 
Ah I love the IRS, I should look up the ruling, but the IRS likes ambiguious gray lines. 1) so people can't play up to the line and come up with creative tax strategies and 2)so taxpayer don't have clear footing on refunds from other brokers
 
[quote author="Ericg" date=1251140880][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1251030541][quote author="chilenita" date=1251028190]I am a long time lurker (>1 year) and really appreciate all of the help I have received during that time. We are currently renters but would like to become first time buyers in the next year. Thanks in part to this forum we have continued to rent, which has turned out to be a great decision (we would have been ready to buy around 2006). Now we are getting closer to becoming home buyers, and I thought I would finally post some of the questions I have.



We have been working with Redfin since January in search of an approx. 2000 sf SFR in Irvine. My husband and I differed on what we wanted, but we now have determined we would like a newer (1998+) home. We started to get more serious about searching in the spring, going on tours with Redfin agents. I thought Redfin was a good match because I like to do a lot of research online myself. So I thought that since I was doing a lot of the legwork anyway, why not get a rebate. We finally put in our first bid on a house in West Irvine (28 Granada) in June. We made a full asking price offer and our Redfin agent barely got a call back from the listing agent. There was talk of all cash offers, over asking, etc (12 offers). So I figured the house must have sold for a great deal over asking. When escrow closed, it turned out that it went for $4000 over asking...not much. And escrow took 45 days or so, which leads me to believe it wasn't "all cash." So why didn't they even call our agent to let us counter? Is it because they aren't giving Redfin a chance? What did we do wrong?



Now today we wanted to put in a bid on an REO in Northpark. We haven't heard back from Redfin (they were waiting for a return call from the listing agent). I am beginning to think that Redfin is not the best match for us. I think a little more service might be useful. Any ideas on how to increase our chances of getting a home? We have twins who will be starting kindergarten in a year. We basically want a house by the time they start school in fall 2010. We are not in a huge hurry, but I am beginning to feel like Irvine prices are not going to come down much more. What is with these all cash offers?? Our Redfin agent told me today that there were 3 all cash offers on a >$1 M home her client was bidding on recently!!



Thanks for any help!</blockquote>
I don't think the problem is Redfin per se, I think it's more of the particular agent that got assigned/selected for you. Redfin has a nice model where they kick you back 50% of the buyer's agent commission after you close escrow via a check but the downside is that that rebate will be taxable income via a 1099. There are also full service agents out there that do and will contribute a portion of their commission to their buyers for their lender and closing costs (unlike the contributed Redfin rebate, this commission contribution will not be taxable and will just reduce the cost basis of the home by the contribution amount). Remember that even more important than what an agent will kickback to you towards your escrow, is that you have a good working relationship with your agent and know that they will fight for you and have great communication skills (i.e. don't take forever to respond to your calls and e-mails).



Believe me, you are not alone in your frustration. I'm working with a few buyers that are looking for an Irvine home (either a start home or a move-up home) and there's just a lack of REO and organic inventory (sellers who have equity in their homes) that's causing a mini buyers fenzy. I'm thinking that the fall and winter will bring some more inventory onto the market which may provide more opportunities for home buyers. We also know from Graph that the REO pipeline of "shadow inventory" (foreclosed properties that have not been listed) continues to grow day by day. As I tell my other buyers....BE PATIENT.



Btw, if PM me the address of the property that you guys lost out on by $4k I'll let you know how large of a loan the buyer of that property obtained to close escrow.</blockquote>


Not exactly true that the redfin commission rebate is taxable. The IRS has ruled on the matter:



http://blog.redfin.com/blog/2007/03/the_taxman_does_not_cometh.html</blockquote>


It makes sense. Since the rebate is not income, it's being redirected to you from the money you put down in the down payment or from borrowed funds, which are not income and just adjusts the basis of the home downward.
 
I work quite a bit with Redfin. Some follow up:



1) The rebate is not a taxable event. This has been thoroughly reviewed by IRS.



2) RF is really for those who want to do almost all the work themselves up until the point of contract writing.



3) If you come up with a list of properties via RF's site, get pre-approved (by anyone, but try the RF approved lenders.....shameless plug) you'll go on "tour" with a RF guide. That person is not a specialist in the area. They know some things about the properties, but not enough specifics to meet what your needs might be. This is a weak point in their sales method, but it assumes you will do your homework on the property using every available resource.



4) Once your ready to write, a Realtor will put the contract together with you, advising what should and should not work with the offer you want to write.



5) Once the offer is accepted, you do get the standard inspections and follow up you'd expect from a full service Realtor. They have very efficient escrow coordinators to push the process forward.



The RF model requires your full participation. If you want full service, you'll miss getting a commission rebate, but that isn't enough motivation for todays buyer to move over to a RF sales model at this time.



I'd use them simply because I break out in hives when I'm around anyone who speaks Realtor-ese AKA: Prices have never been this affordable. Buy now before you get pric.... AARRrrgh I'm itchy already!



My 02c



Soylent Green Is People
 
"Soylent Green is People" pretty much describes it well. We used Redfin and were very pleased with the service we received.



- The field agents are not specialists. They are basically there to open doors and can answer some basic questions about the house and neighborhood.

- The actual agent who writes the contract and negotiates are pretty experienced (probably more experienced than several regular agents because all they do is write/negotiate contracts and don't waste time touring, escrow coordination, et cetera). We never met ours in person until closing day, but we didn't care. Our agent responded to e-mail at various times of the day (and night), including weekends. And that responsiveness is all we cared about.

- The agent who writes the contract works very closely with you and helps you figure out what to put in the contract and how to respond to counter-offers. And since, that agent is salaried, we knew she had no vested interest.

- We must have e-mailed and phoned our agent 30 times over the 4 days of negotiations (including the weekend), so I think they work as closely with you as a local real estate agent would have.

- We're Type-A's so we like doing most of the research ourselves. So, while the field agent and the Redfin agent provided solid advice, we did our own homework (drove around the neighborhood at night, talked to neighbors, had our Redfin agent pull preliminary title report, et cetera).

- One positive for us was that Redfin is not pushy. There is no sales pressure or random calls to see how we're doing. I can see this being a negative for some as it can be perceived as Redfin not caring about you. But if you contact your Redfin agent about anything (or if they hear from Title, Escrow, or another third-party), you will hear promptly back.

- Finally, we did get a $13k+ refund check (non-taxable), which made any minor deficiencies in the Redfin process moot. I don't know what extra stuff Redfin (or a local real estate agent) could have done for us to give up that substantial an amount.



Having said that, I understand that Redfin is not for everyone. If you prefer face-to-face contact or have very specific housing needs that you simply cannot (or do not want to) research yourself, then a non-Redfin agent will probably fit your needs better. And with the market downturn, you can possibly negotiate a lower commission or refund with most real estate agents, so that potentially helps as well.
 
[quote author="Soylent Green Is People" date=1251171471]I work quite a bit with Redfin. Some follow up:



1) The rebate is not a taxable event. This has been thoroughly reviewed by IRS.



2) RF is really for those who want to do almost all the work themselves up until the point of contract writing.



3) If you come up with a list of properties via RF's site, get pre-approved (by anyone, but try the RF approved lenders.....shameless plug) you'll go on "tour" with a RF guide. That person is not a specialist in the area. They know some things about the properties, but not enough specifics to meet what your needs might be. This is a weak point in their sales method, but it assumes you will do your homework on the property using every available resource.



4) Once your ready to write, a Realtor will put the contract together with you, advising what should and should not work with the offer you want to write.



5) Once the offer is accepted, you do get the standard inspections and follow up you'd expect from a full service Realtor. They have very efficient escrow coordinators to push the process forward.



The RF model requires your full participation. If you want full service, you'll miss getting a commission rebate, but that isn't enough motivation for todays buyer to move over to a RF sales model at this time.



I'd use them simply because I break out in hives when I'm around anyone who speaks Realtor-ese AKA: Prices have never been this affordable. Buy now before you get pric.... AARRrrgh I'm itchy already!



My 02c



Soylent Green Is People</blockquote>


The agents at open houses invariably ask some questions and I answer their questions accurately. One of my answers is. "We are waiting still", and, "for a couple more years at least." Every single agent who has heard my responses in the last month or so has said something to the effect, "You better not wait too long. Don't let yourself get priced out."



Here is what is so irritating about there advice, and I hope there are a bunch of lurking realtors out there reading this:



What in the world makes them think that I should listen to their advice?

How arrogant must one be to give out huge money advice to someone they have just met and know close to nothing about?

Do they really think that I would care to work with someone so arrogant?

What were they telling people in 2005 and 2006?

Does it ever occur to them after hearing what my timing has been to ask for my advice rather than deign to give theirs?

What in the world makes them an expert?

Did they time the market and sell in 05/06, and then proceed to rent?

Would it be presumptive of me to assume the opposite, and that in fact, many of these advice giving experts drank the kool-aid and bought at the peak or upgraded at the peak?
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1251179445][quote author="Soylent Green Is People" date=1251171471]

</blockquote>


The agents at open houses invariably ask some questions and I answer their questions accurately. One of my answers is. "We are waiting still", and, "for a couple more years at least." Every single agent who has heard my responses in the last month or so has said something to the effect, "You better not wait too long. Don't let yourself get priced out."



Here is what is so irritating about there advice, and I hope there are a bunch of lurking realtors out there reading this:



What in the world makes them think that I should listen to their advice?

How arrogant must one be to give out huge money advice to someone they have just met and know close to nothing about?

Do they really think that I would care to work with someone so arrogant?

What were they telling people in 2005 and 2006?

Does it ever occur to them after hearing what my timing has been to ask for my advice rather than deign to give theirs?

What in the world makes them an expert?

Did they time the market and sell in 05/06, and then proceed to rent?

Would it be presumptive of me to assume the opposite, and that in fact, many of these advice giving experts drank the kool-aid and bought at the peak or upgraded at the peak?</blockquote>


They are salespeople. I wouldn't go in expecting them to be the Warren Buffett of financial advice. I would go in expecting a car salesman. With some low expectations, you won't be so disappointed.
 
Anyone who chooses an agent by asking, "how much money are you going to give me for the privilege of my business?" is just as pathetic as the Real-a-Tors



"Larry H Realtor got me 2.1 million dollars and a free hawaiian get-a-way!"



The guy has a crappy job one step above a used carsalesman, has tons of competition, barely makes enough to pay for the 5 series lease, and then gets to pay 1/2 of his pre-tax dollars to his client. Kick me in the jimmy!
 
[quote author="Joe33" date=1251182701][quote author="awgee" date=1251179445][quote author="Soylent Green Is People" date=1251171471]

</blockquote>


The agents at open houses invariably ask some questions and I answer their questions accurately. One of my answers is. "We are waiting still", and, "for a couple more years at least." Every single agent who has heard my responses in the last month or so has said something to the effect, "You better not wait too long. Don't let yourself get priced out."



Here is what is so irritating about there advice, and I hope there are a bunch of lurking realtors out there reading this:



What in the world makes them think that I should listen to their advice?

How arrogant must one be to give out huge money advice to someone they have just met and know close to nothing about?

Do they really think that I would care to work with someone so arrogant?

What were they telling people in 2005 and 2006?

Does it ever occur to them after hearing what my timing has been to ask for my advice rather than deign to give theirs?

What in the world makes them an expert?

Did they time the market and sell in 05/06, and then proceed to rent?

Would it be presumptive of me to assume the opposite, and that in fact, many of these advice giving experts drank the kool-aid and bought at the peak or upgraded at the peak?</blockquote>


They are salespeople. I wouldn't go in expecting them to be the Warren Buffett of financial advice. I would go in expecting a car salesman. With some low expectations, you won't be so disappointed.</blockquote>
Exactly. Why are they giving advice?
 
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