Ready2Downsize
Well-known member
These MR are absolutely freaking CRAZY but I guess some people have no problem with throwing money away like that.
Orchard Hills 4 - "The Summit" Updates
- Thread starter ratchet_resident
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
First problem (and biggest - he references this a few times with his later points): the lot sizes are far more narrow. Previous TB tracts, a big selling point was nice, wide lots. Now, each lot is more narrow so that they can try and fit an extra home or two. He calls Pinnacle out for being especially egregious of this compared to Bella Vista and Alta Vista.
Second problem: two car garage. People buying $6M, $8M, $10M+ homes are likely to have nicer cars that they'd want to keep in the garage. If it's a family of 5 with some older kids, they'd have at least 3 cars, creating a lack of parking space. At this price point, buyers shouldn't have to rely on street parking. A $10M home with a 2 car garage just sounds bad.
Third problem: narrow front doors. TB homes of the past had double doors, wide entry ways. These new homes are indistinguishable from other standard homes. The luxurious, grandiose look of wide front doors that TB had in the past is nonexistent now.
Fourth problem: upon entering the home, you're presented with a long, narrow hallway. Older TB homes had large, spacious entryways that felt luxurious, like Hidden Canyon. These just don't feel the same and it's likely because of the narrow lot sizes. No room to build such an entryway on a narrow lot.
Fifth problem: the dual curved staircases at Hidden Canyon were "award winning", or felt that way. Now, it's just a super standard staircase. Sure, they have upgrades now to look good, but those cost money (the floating staircases). A lot of people will just go with the default staircase vs. paying more to upgrade. It just doesn't compare to how the dual staircases of Hidden Canyon felt.
Sixth problem: double kitchen islands. Hidden Canyon had double kitchen islands. Why? Lot sizes were wider, homes were wider. Now, lot sizes are narrow so the home has to be narrow. There's no room to build a double kitchen island. Sure, the islands now are bigger but it's just not as functional - wider island but the middle is less accessible in terms of reach.
Seventh problem: master bedroom balconies are much smaller. Alta Vista balconies, Hidden Canyon balconies, you could fit an entire mattress out there. With these new floorplans, you'd be lucky to fit a couch out there. He says that TB could build a larger balcony, they used to. Why not continue doing so? He says it's likely because the balconies don't add to the square footage, can't make money off it. It's not a good ROI, so they don't do it. If they were to build balconies like they used to, people seeing the floorplan would be in awe of large balcony. But instead, it's indistinguishable from a $3M Irvine Company home.
I was listening and typing, not a literal translation, but my takeaways.
I think he's really spot on with the two car garage. I'm in a smaller, less grand Toll Brothers neighborhood in Baker Ranch (average 2500 sq ft, mine is ~2900), and street parking isn't all that plentiful there even. Lots of families with teenagers so there are three car families, and almost *no* one uses both spaces in the garage. That means almost every single house in the neighborhood already has a single car parked on the street or driveway.
Now imagine my neighborhood, but denser, and a lot more multi-generational households and everyone with the net worth to afford a third fun car, the street parking situation is going to look like a ghetto apartment complex.
I have a nice looking spiral staircase with a rotunda entrance, and I do prefer that over the more narrow hallway, though the floating staircases do make the living rooms look so much larger and grand, so maybe a tradeoff.
ThirtySomethingWEquity
Active member
what are his other criticisms? It does seem overpriced to me, but what do I know, it's hard for me to imagine dropping 4 million on a house
CalBears96
Well-known member
Wow, $2M view lot premium is still a thing?
He compares it to what Toll Brothers has been capable of, comparing the OH Summit homes to Hidden Canyon, Alta Vista, Bella Vista, and Altair. These plans have weaknesses that just don't fit the price and falls short of what TB has been able to build in the past.
First problem (and biggest - he references this a few times with his later points): the lot sizes are far more narrow. Previous TB tracts, a big selling point was nice, wide lots. Now, each lot is more narrow so that they can try and fit an extra home or two. He calls Pinnacle out for being especially egregious of this compared to Bella Vista and Alta Vista.
Second problem: two car garage. People buying $6M, $8M, $10M+ homes are likely to have nicer cars that they'd want to keep in the garage. If it's a family of 5 with some older kids, they'd have at least 3 cars, creating a lack of parking space. At this price point, buyers shouldn't have to rely on street parking. A $10M home with a 2 car garage just sounds bad.
Third problem: narrow front doors. TB homes of the past had double doors, wide entry ways. These new homes are indistinguishable from other standard homes. The luxurious, grandiose look of wide front doors that TB had in the past is nonexistent now.
Fourth problem: upon entering the home, you're presented with a long, narrow hallway. Older TB homes had large, spacious entryways that felt luxurious, like Hidden Canyon. These just don't feel the same and it's likely because of the narrow lot sizes. No room to build such an entryway on a narrow lot.
Fifth problem: the dual curved staircases at Hidden Canyon were "award winning", or felt that way. Now, it's just a super standard staircase. Sure, they have upgrades now to look good, but those cost money (the floating staircases). A lot of people will just go with the default staircase vs. paying more to upgrade. It just doesn't compare to how the dual staircases of Hidden Canyon felt.
Sixth problem: double kitchen islands. Hidden Canyon had double kitchen islands. Why? Lot sizes were wider, homes were wider. Now, lot sizes are narrow so the home has to be narrow. There's no room to build a double kitchen island. Sure, the islands now are bigger but it's just not as functional - wider island but the middle is less accessible in terms of reach.
Seventh problem: master bedroom balconies are much smaller. Alta Vista balconies, Hidden Canyon balconies, you could fit an entire mattress out there. With these new floorplans, you'd be lucky to fit a couch out there. He says that TB could build a larger balcony, they used to. Why not continue doing so? He says it's likely because the balconies don't add to the square footage, can't make money off it. It's not a good ROI, so they don't do it. If they were to build balconies like they used to, people seeing the floorplan would be in awe of large balcony. But instead, it's indistinguishable from a $3M Irvine Company home.
I was listening and typing, not a literal translation, but my takeaways.
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ThirtySomethingWEquity
Active member
thank you so much, that's great, a lot of his points are pretty insightful.
I think he's really spot on with the two car garage. I'm in a smaller, less grand Toll Brothers neighborhood in Baker Ranch (average 2500 sq ft, mine is ~2900), and street parking isn't all that plentiful there even. Lots of families with teenagers so there are three car families, and almost *no* one uses both spaces in the garage. That means almost every single house in the neighborhood already has a single car parked on the street or driveway.
Now imagine my neighborhood, but denser, and a lot more multi-generational households and everyone with the net worth to afford a third fun car, the street parking situation is going to look like a ghetto apartment complex.
I have a nice looking spiral staircase with a rotunda entrance, and I do prefer that over the more narrow hallway, though the floating staircases do make the living rooms look so much larger and grand, so maybe a tradeoff.