Obamacare on Life Support article

spootieho said:
Perspective said:
How does Trump get around this issue? He and the Republicans have promised repeal of ObamaCare for so long, and villified ObamaCare sourcing every bad healthcare issue to ObamaCare.
The same way Obama got around the issue.  He promised not to sign a bill with the conditions that the ACA had.  He promised to wait before signing the bill.  When it landed on his desk, though, he signed it right away and owned it.

Promises that candidates make while campaigning are pretty empty.  It's nice to see a candidate make the effort to fulfill his promises.  We understand when he can't, however.  Also, keep in mind that the president can't repeal Obamacare without congress repealing it first.

Once he signs it, he can get vilified or praised for signing it.  I agree that if the bill dies, it would be good for Trump and that he could blame others.

How is Trump making an effort to fulfill his promises on ObamaCare? He promised to repeal it, to provide everyone better cheaper healthcare insurance, and that nobody would lose insurance. This bill doesn't fulfill any of those promises.

Trump's plan is to blame everyone but himself when his promises don't result in the very very great result actually promised. This is true if RyanCare is passed or not. #Yemen!
 
Perspective said:
spootieho said:
Perspective said:
How does Trump get around this issue? He and the Republicans have promised repeal of ObamaCare for so long, and villified ObamaCare sourcing every bad healthcare issue to ObamaCare.
The same way Obama got around the issue.  He promised not to sign a bill with the conditions that the ACA had.  He promised to wait before signing the bill.  When it landed on his desk, though, he signed it right away and owned it.

Promises that candidates make while campaigning are pretty empty.  It's nice to see a candidate make the effort to fulfill his promises.  We understand when he can't, however.  Also, keep in mind that the president can't repeal Obamacare without congress repealing it first.

Once he signs it, he can get vilified or praised for signing it.  I agree that if the bill dies, it would be good for Trump and that he could blame others.

How is Trump making an effort to fulfill his promises on ObamaCare? He promised to repeal it, to provide everyone better cheaper healthcare insurance, and that nobody would lose insurance. This bill doesn't fulfill any of those promises.

Trump's plan is to blame everyone but himself when his promises don't result in the very very great result actually promised. This is true if RyanCare is passed or not. #Yemen!

Didn't Obama say everyone could keep their doctor? I know for a fact some people didn't get to do that and aren't happy he signed a bill that didn't let them do that........ people with complicated medical histories that have had the same doctor for years, doctors they trust and doctors who actually do sit and listen to them (yes there are some still around that do that).

I myself had to change to a plan that had my docs on it costing me WAY more money, WAY higher premiums, WAY higher deductible, WAY higher OOP, WAY higher copays, WAY higher max OOP and WAY higher rx costs for that privilege but others weren't so lucky, they had no plan that had those same docs on them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E

 
Facts and analyses don't look fondly on this "repeal" of ObamaCare.

Paul Ryan's Free Market Argument for Repealing Obamacare Is Delusional Nonsensehttp://www.gq.com/story/paul-ryan-obamacare-repeal-delusional-nonsense

Why the Republican Health Care Plan Is Destined to Failhttp://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2017/03/13/Why-Republican-Health-Care-Plan-Destined-Fail

White House analysis of Obamacare repeal sees even deeper insurance losses than CBOhttp://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/obamacare-uninsured-white-house-236019

Trump?s Counties Lose Out to Clinton?s in GOP Health Tax Cutshttps://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...-lose-out-to-clinton-s-in-gop-health-tax-cuts
 
Any way you cut this ACA is going away. Either they will dump it this way or it will collapse and this will happen anyway.  In reality people like us are the only ones who discuss this or care.  Ask a guy in the street and start to discuss the policy points and watch his eyes glaze over.  Truth is, one way or another we are going back to where we were.  The young will not buy insurace (just like before) and people like us will get insurance at work.  The rest are back on their own or will go on medicare like they are now.  Business as usual.


Trump has a secret backup plan to kill Obamacare. It?s actually brilliant.

In an Oval Office meeting featuring several leaders of conservative groups already lining up against the House Republican plan to repeal and replace Obamacare, President Donald Trump revealed his plan in the event the GOP effort fails: Allow Obamcare to fail and let Democrats take the blame, sources at the gathering told CNN.

If you think about it, this actually makes sense. If the law survives, Trump can spend the next couple of years claiming that it is collapsing all around us ? or rather that it continues to collapse, since it is already collapsing as we speak. And Republican voters will of course believe that this is the case, since it is an unshakable truism for them that the law has already failed in spectacular fashion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2017/03/09/trump-has-a-secret-backup-plan-to-kill-obamacare-its-actually-brilliant/?utm_term=.0b0e0b15d506
 
None of the things Republicans claim to like about ACA, nor any of the things the hate, will "go away" without legislation.
 
Perspective said:
The plan is to choose to be healthy, just like we should choose our parents better at birth.  :-[

That seems to be the big argument from people at the moment, they're "not sick" so their insurance should be dirt cheap.
 
nosuchreality said:
Perspective said:
The plan is to choose to be healthy, just like we should choose our parents better at birth.  :-[

That seems to be the big argument from people at the moment, they're "not sick" so their insurance should be dirt cheap.

And they are projecting $3bn savings in SSI outlays simply by more people dying (17K more in 2018 and up to 29K more in 2026; due to the proposed cuts in medical care). I guess that's one way to rein in entitlement spending.
 
peppy said:
nosuchreality said:
Perspective said:
The plan is to choose to be healthy, just like we should choose our parents better at birth.  :-[

That seems to be the big argument from people at the moment, they're "not sick" so their insurance should be dirt cheap.

And they are projecting $3bn savings in SSI outlays simply by more people dying (17K more in 2018 and up to 29K more in 2026; due to the proposed cuts in medical care). I guess that's one way to rein in entitlement spending.

The Economist has reported on these types of metrics. Interesting stuff. Like, should we really be trying to get Americans, two-thirds of whom are overweight, to lose weight? The longevity issues we're dealing with on SSI and Medicare benefit from decreased lifespans due to obesity, even when you adjust for increased healthcare costs during their lives.
 
Obamacare?s squeezed middle
Admit it: Republicans? proposed Obamacare overhaul offers relief for some middle earners
Don?t forget that health reform has cost some Americans dearly

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2017/03/obamacare-s-squeezed-middle

Free exchange
Mar 9th 2017
by H.C

WHAT is the best part of House Republicans? proposed reform of Obamacare? There isn?t one, if you believe much of this week?s commentary. The bill will benefit the young and healthy, by bringing their premiums down, but only at the cost of the old and sickly. But most writers are overlooking the help the bill would offer to one group that has clearly suffered unfairly under Obamacare. So long as Paul Ryan?s reform does not send the market into a death spiral?which is not a sure thing (see article)?this group will get some needed financial assistance under the Republican plan.

I'm talking about people who buy health insurance for themselves, rather than through an employer, and who do not get the subsidies which shield those on low incomes from Obamacare?s high premiums. It is easy to overlook this group, because the vast majority of the 10m people who buy insurance through Obamacare?s websites (or "exchanges") receive subsidies. For example, here is Jared Bernstein, Vice-President Joe Biden's former chief economist, in the Washington

Post: Of course, there?s the infamous, headline-generating 2017 premium increases in the non-group market. After growing 2 and 7 percent in 2015 and 2016, insurers in the state-based exchanges raised the cost of the benchmark plan by an average of 25 percent. To Obamacare critics, this was proof of the program?s unsustainability. But because 85 percent of participants in this market (state exchanges) receive premium tax credits to offset the cost of coverage, they do not face the full shock.

What Mr Bernstein does not mention is that another 8m Americans buy coverage directly from insurers, without going through the exchanges. These buyers get no subsidies. But they must pay the same prices as those who do, because the law forces everybody in the individual marketplace?on or off the exchanges?into the same ?risk-pool?.

In total, there are 9m unsubsidised buyers for whom criticisms of Obamacare resonate strongly. Most of these people are not rich: a family-of-four stops receiving subsidies at an income of just under $100,000. Obamacare forced such buyers onto the same plans as a lot of people with pre-existing medical conditions who could not previously afford insurance. That pushed their premiums and deductibles up?and they have risen further over time. Here?s an example from a piece I wrote last September:

Before the law, Brian Anderson, a 30-something orthodontist from Nashville, paid $80 a month for insurance that came with a $5,000 deductible. In 2014 his insurer cancelled the plan, as it did not now comply with the law. His new plan, from healthcare.gov, provides, in his view, essentially the same coverage?the deductible is in fact higher?but costs fully $201 per month. Mr Anderson says he is glad many more people now have insurance. But the estimated 2.6m others whose plans were cancelled that year may not all be as understanding. 

Since I wrote that, Mr Anderson?s insurer has dropped out of his local marketplace, and he has had to switch to a plan costing over $400 a month. You can understand why someone who has seen their premium go up by over 300% would be disillusioned with the law.

Does this matter?  A family-of-four earning $100,000 is clearly not poor. However, they face very high prices for health insurance. In much of Arizona, for instance, they would have to pay over $22,000 per year?almost a quarter of their pre-tax income?for ?silver? coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation?s Obamacare calculator.  And that is before you count their out-of-pocket medical costs. When Donald Trump says that Obamacare is a ?disaster?, such a family would look at their health insurance options and agree.

The House Republican plan offers this group some help. Individuals earning less than $75,000, and couples earning less than $150,000, will get a big tax credit to help them with their premiums. (Minnesota has already passed ?premium relief? for such buyers).

Is that a good thing? Obamacare explicitly tries to spread the costs of health insurance around, in order to increase coverage. Unfortunately, it does so only in the individual market. The 155m Americans who get health insurance through their employers need not foot the bill for unhealthy people on the exchanges. Not only that, but this coddled group also gets a tax break on their coverage. People in the individual market have a right to feel hard done by. The best thing about Mr Ryan?s tax credit is that it begins to redress the imbalance.

I am not suggesting that helping this group justifies removing means-tested subsidies for the poor. But I am pushing back on the idea that Obamacare's redistribution only hurt the "rich". Here is Matthew Yglesias at Vox (emphasis added):

Policy-minded conservatives have serious criticisms of President Obama?s health care law. They think it taxes rich people too much, and coddles Americans with excessively generous, excessively subsidized health insurance plans. They want a world of lower taxes on millionaires while millions of Americans put ?skin in the game? in the form of higher deductibles and copayments. Exactly the opposite, in other words, of what Republican politicians have been promising.

Mr Yglesias portrays Obamacare's redistribution as flowing primarily from rich to poor. But his chart shows something else: that it hurts middle-income groups most. That is consistent with the experience of millions of Americans in the individual market who have seen their premiums soar while they have received no help from the government. They are treated unfairly by the system as it stands, and should not be ignored when thinking about health care reform.
 
Lying can work, until it doesn't.

The Original Lie About Obamacare
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/opinion/the-original-lie-about-obamacare.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
 
Perspective said:
Lying can work, until it doesn't.

The Original Lie About Obamacare
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/opinion/the-original-lie-about-obamacare.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

And it seems it applies to the dumocrat party as well, no?
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017...-hide-that-hes-paid-nothing-in-federal-taxes/

Apparently Trump did pay taxes. In fact more tax than any of us will MAKE in our lifetimes in that one year.

Those who spouted off that he most likely didn't pay anything can now sit down and shut up.

I always like reading the comments on these stories.

Here's one for giggles:

"A senior citizen approached the Marine Guard at the WH and asked to see President Hillary Clinton. The Marine told the man, "Sorry but Hillary Clinton is not the President". The man left but came back the next day and again walked up to the same Marine and requested to see President Hillary Clinton. Again the Marine told him that Hillary Clinton was not the President. Next day the gentleman appeared before the Marine with same request. The Marine, now becoming quite miffed at this person replied rather sharply, "Look, I have already told you the first time you were here and again yesterday that Hillary Clinton is not the President, don't you understand that?". The man replied, "Oh yes, I understand perfectly, I just enjoy hearing you say it". The Marine snapped to a salute and replied, "See you tomorrow sir"."

Off to shop for the day.
 
How have Democrats lied about Trump's taxes? There's been much speculation, that he could squash in five minutes by releasing tax returns for at least the past few years. Good distraction/deflection from this ObamaCare repeal failure though, no?
 
Ready2Downsize said:
Perspective said:
Lying can work, until it doesn't.

The Original Lie About Obamacare
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/opinion/the-original-lie-about-obamacare.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

And it seems it applies to the dumocrat party as well, no?
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017...-hide-that-hes-paid-nothing-in-federal-taxes/

Apparently Trump did pay taxes. In fact more tax than any of us will MAKE in our lifetimes in that one year.

Those who spouted off that he most likely didn't pay anything can now sit down and shut up.

I always like reading the comments on these stories.

Here's one for giggles:

"A senior citizen approached the Marine Guard at the WH and asked to see President Hillary Clinton. The Marine told the man, "Sorry but Hillary Clinton is not the President". The man left but came back the next day and again walked up to the same Marine and requested to see President Hillary Clinton. Again the Marine told him that Hillary Clinton was not the President. Next day the gentleman appeared before the Marine with same request. The Marine, now becoming quite miffed at this person replied rather sharply, "Look, I have already told you the first time you were here and again yesterday that Hillary Clinton is not the President, don't you understand that?". The man replied, "Oh yes, I understand perfectly, I just enjoy hearing you say it". The Marine snapped to a salute and replied, "See you tomorrow sir"."

Off to shop for the day.

The "meat" of the return was not released and it was a pretty old return (a lot of fanfare for nothing). He ended up with a pretty low federal tax liability but AMT is what ended up ratcheting up the rate. This is probably going to be used as fodder against any efforts to repeal the AMT.

 
Perspective said:
How have Democrats lied about Trump's taxes? There's been much speculation, that he could squash in five minutes by releasing tax returns for at least the past few years. Good distraction/deflection from this ObamaCare repeal failure though, no?
Stating speculation as if it is a fact, is dishonest and can be considered a lie.  Just saying...
 
spootieho said:
Perspective said:
How have Democrats lied about Trump's taxes? There's been much speculation, that he could squash in five minutes by releasing tax returns for at least the past few years. Good distraction/deflection from this ObamaCare repeal failure though, no?
Stating speculation as if it is a fact, is dishonest and can be considered a lie.  Just saying...

Fair enough. So, on a scale of despicability, where would speculation about tax returns lie (pun intended), relative to years of false statements, extreme hyperbole, and scapegoating of ACA?
 
Oh my goodness! ObamaCare is horrible, a victimizer, and disastrous! We should repeal this today. This is what Ryan's bill does with ObamaCare, right? It repeals ObamaCare, right?

Trump said "this horrible legislation" has victimized Americans and left Tennesseans on the brink of not having coverage in 2018. "We are going to repeal and replace horrible and disastrous Obamacare," he said.
http://www.tennessean.com/story/mon...trump-talks-healthcare-in-nashville/99161882/
 
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