New vs. Old... Huntington vs. Irvine

hs_teacher_IHB

hs_teacher_IHB

New member
Okay, I'm tired of arguing new vs old... and inland versus coastal. So I decided to get some data.



For a 3-4 bedroom home with approximatedly 2200-2250 s.f. in Irvine -



Ave sale price if built more than 30 years ago... $810,900

Ave sale price if built within the past 10 years... $878,400



That is 8% more.



For a 3-4 bedroom home with approximatedly 2200-2250 s.f. in Huntington Beach -



Ave sale price if built more than 30 years ago... $914,000

Ave sale price if built within the past 10 years... $980,000



That is 7% more.



First point, although an older home is located in a more established neighborhood, a comparable new home tend to cost more.

Second point, similar size and age homes in Huntington Beach costs on average $100K more than Irvine homes.

Huntinton Beach has a 100K location premium over Irvine. But since Irvine has many more newer and bigger homes, its median home value is similar to HB.



To me, this information is very intuitive and obvious. Just about every buyer I have spoken to have asked... should I buy older and closer, or newer and farther for the same price?



So I'll repeat myself... for 700K, you can either buy an older or smaller home in HB or a bigger or newer home in Irvine.

Why do people like Irvine? Because the homes are newer. That's why people moved here in the first place.

Why do people like HB? The location is better - with the beach of course.



Please feel free to dispute. For me, the numbers say it all.
 
all things being fair my wife would love to live at HB. The ocean breeze is nice.



Unfortunately its too far for her to commute so we settled at Irvine which was totally fine with me since I'm not too much of a beach person.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213696856]Okay, I'm tired of arguing new vs old... and inland versus coastal. So I decided to get some data.



For a 3-4 bedroom home with approximatedly 2200-2250 s.f. in Irvine -



Ave sale price if built more than 30 years ago... $810,900

Ave sale price if built within the past 10 years... $878,400



That is 8% more.



For a 3-4 bedroom home with approximatedly 2200-2250 s.f. in Huntington Beach -



Ave sale price if built more than 30 years ago... $914,000

Ave sale price if built within the past 10 years... $980,000



That is 7% more.





First point, although an older home is located in a more established neighborhood, a comparable new home tend to cost more.

Second point, similar size and age homes in Huntington Beach costs on average $100K more than Irvine homes.

Huntinton Beach has a 100K location premium over Irvine. But since Irvine has many more newer and bigger homes, its median home value is similar to HB.



To me, this information is very intuitive and obvious. Just about every buyer I have spoken to have asked... should I buy older and closer, or newer and farther for the same price?



So I'll repeat myself... for 700K, you can either buy an older or smaller home in HB or a bigger or newer home in Irvine.

Why do people like Irvine? Because the homes are newer. That's why people moved here in the first place.

Why do people like HB? The location is better - with the beach of course.



Please feel free to dispute. For me, the numbers say it all.</blockquote>


Buying an old house is all about the curb appeal. Older homes built after 1945 are not worth buying due to inferior and mass produced parts and building materials. Most importantly the designs were not attractive. Home ownership after 1945 was all about the GI coming home and the country assisted them with Veteran loan. Homes were built in lighting speed. 900 homes with 6 floor plans were common for those days. They have all turned into poor neighborhoods today.



When one really knows about homes and it is all about collecting the one of a kind houses. Many celebrities seek out homes designed by famous architects of the 1920's -1950's. One of a kind vintage homes are worth more today than newer homes. Never buy a home built between 1960-1989 because the construction industry was not regulated very well plagued with poor workmanship and bad ethic. Class action lawsuit during the late 80's forced the construction industry for reform. Tighter standards and quality control were enforced rigorously in avoiding lawsuits.



The consumers benefit from buying a newer home today with better waterproofing and construction practice. Floor plans fitting todays lifestyle is the ultimate draw for buying new.



Curb appeal, charm, good interior and exterior finishes, and land are the reason for buying old.



There is no right or wrong choice for either one except when you buy a house built between 1945 and 1989.
 
Ok bk, I get your point now. You're referring to old in terms of being classic/collectible. I was just talking about old as in bad fixtures, faulty plumbing, broken down structures, and ugly design.

But I'm talking about the average consumer wanting to buy a house without fear of the roof collapsing.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213698975]Ok bk, I get your point now. You're referring to old in terms of being classic/collectible. I was just talking about old as in bad fixtures, faulty plumbing, broken down structures, and ugly design.

But I'm talking about the average consumer wanting to buy a house without fear of the roof collapsing.</blockquote>


I hope by now that you can understand the perspective I bring to this forum. I have been in this industry for a very long time and I have seen the up and down of this housing cycle several times. I deal with the very rich as well as the very poor so understand the issues on both sides of the fence.



Consumers fall in love with a product the first 5 seconds in retail and housing. When they are seeking for validation of their choice on this blog the doubt will eventually deter the buyers from making the commitment.
 
When I was growing up, Huntington Beach was thought of as a dump with white trailer trash and neo-nazis. Newport was always exclusive and Laguna was for artists and hippies. Corona Del Mar was middle-class. San Clemente was filled with Oceanside marines. Perceptions sure due change over time.
 
What if you think HB sucks? I wouldn't buy old or new there. I can't stand the location, not a fan of the people who live there, and the restaurants suck.



If you compared older Tustin to newer Irvine, then I might be challenged. But, I will not live in HB over Irvine period.



You do pay a premium for new, but what does that premium pay for? A warranty? You get a warranty on used if you want too. Newer homes are built like crap, trust me, I know. There are only a handful of builders I would buy from. Go look at the Brightwater pics I took, I can find 30 year old homes in better condition than that garbage. Older homes are a crap shoot. You never know what the previous owner neglected or if the builder was about to go BK and was drunk (my home).



I would get a good inspector whether I was buying new or old. But, I want lot size, design, and location regardless of new or used home.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1213704106]What if you think HB sucks? I wouldn't buy old or new there. I can't stand the location, not a fan of the people who live there, and the restaurants suck.</blockquote>


x2



Traffic also sucks going into the OC in the mornings. Sure you can take the streets but there's still quite a bit of traffic.
 
What an eye opener today. I drove around looking at older neighborhoods in Irvine. Oh my!!....they look very similar to Santa Ana's.
 
HS, everyone has their own rationalization of making a home purchase. Being close to the beach for me is not even on the list. We may go to the beach 8-10 times a year, but it's not enough to warrant spending an extra 75+ minutes every workday driving into the Irvine Spectrum from HB. Old vs. New while part of the equation, it's all about how the house feels and floorplan / design. Sure newer designs, which typically come with newer houses have more wow factor and appeal than older 1970's popcorn 8' ceilings.



What about schools, safety, community feel, being close to family, friends, relatives, work, etc. etc. Personally, I'd rather be in Laguna or thereabouts rather than HB for a "coastal" community.
 
Irvine people feel that newness, niceness, being close to work, and having good schools are important.

Huntington people feel that the beach life style is ideal.



In my opinion, I think Irvine is winning. Just look at it's population growth compared to HB in the past 10 years.



HB is falling behind because it's far from the freeways, does not have a lot of businesses, and is aging.



But, it's building new homes (Seacliff), has built a new shopping center (Bella Terra), and is building a new tourist site (the build-up around Main Street).



In terms of schools, all four high schools in Irvine are excellent. In HB, one is crap and the other three are relatively good. None is excellent though.



I think that Irvine will continue to be a residential/employment power center, while HB will grow in tourism & entertainment.



I think HB might be more popular if it was more Asian friendly. It seems that all the Asians from Garden Grove and Westminster are choosing to relocate to Irvine as opposed to Huntington.



As for me, I'll still choose Fountain Valley for now. I think that Fountain Valley High is extremely similar to Irvine High.
 
[quote author="Bubblegum" date=1213707324]Sure newer designs, which typically come with newer houses have more wow factor and appeal than older 1970's popcorn 8' ceilings.</blockquote>


What? My ceilings have been scraped and textured. Who has popcorn ceilings? I have can lighting, is that a wow factor? I have exposed beams and high ceilings, is that a wow factor? I have a yard, with tomatoes (salmonella free I might add), is that a wow factor? What about mature roses? So it has some dry rot and a little termite damage, I bet my wow factor is better than any new home wow factor. Especially when you see original 30 year old fixtures that have no cracks or cracks that are smaller than new construction. I want just below peak pricing $999k, anyone, any takers, bulls on Lansner's blog, anyone who wants a single story in a great area who thinks the high end is not immune, I have a house for you. Help my neighbors keep their comps up, and they will love you and me. Anyone?



/snarky over
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1213712685]Irvine people feel that newness, niceness, being close to work, and having good schools are important.

Huntington people feel that the beach life style is ideal.



In my opinion, I think Irvine is winning. Just look at it's population growth compared to HB in the past 10 years.</blockquote>


Duh... population grows where it can grow, i.e. new homes and new apartments. How many new homes and new apartments were built in HB? Please gawd tell me you do not teach econ.



<blockquote>HB is falling behind because it's far from the freeways, does not have a lot of businesses, and is aging.</blockquote>


Yup, this is the smartest thing you have said yet about HB.



<blockquote>But, it's building new homes (Seacliff), has built a new shopping center (Bella Terra), and is building a new tourist site (the build-up around Main Street).</blockquote>


Seacliff is almost at buildout, and can't sell the last homes they have, hell... they can't even afford the advertising lately. Bella Terra? Never been there, and I have no plans to go there. I go to the Spectrum, South Coast, and The District, but I have no need to go to Bella Terra. It will be interesting if they ever build condos at a mall there. While the Spectrum will still be thriving, Bella Terra will become just like Triangle Square... a run down mall with nothing but sub-par crappy stores. Build up around Main St.? What... another tattoo shop? Maybe a place to buy incense and a glass pipe... cool.



<blockquote>In terms of schools, all four high schools in Irvine are excellent. In HB, one is crap and the other three are relatively good. None is excellent though.</blockquote>


Maybe, if the teachers were on planet reality, then none of them would be that bad. Seriously, it isn't just the schools but the parents and the teachers. Entitlement runs deep in the Kali4nia pooblik skewls, instead they should focus on what is happening in the bigger picture, rather than trying to focus on a few students they favor.



<blockquote>I think that Irvine will continue to be a residential/employment power center, while HB will grow in tourism & entertainment.</blockquote>


Yeah... exactly, jobs are a good thing and need to be created to stimulate economic growth. Tourism and the leisure job sector has been growing slightly, but really, what good does it do for the housing market? BTW, Santa Cruz is really surf city, and HB can sue all they want, SC has way better surf spots than HB.



<blockquote>I think HB might be more popular if it was more Asian friendly. It seems that all the Asians from Garden Grove and Westminster are choosing to relocate to Irvine as opposed to Huntington.</blockquote>


You mean that Asians avoid areas where there is white trash? Yeah, they do. Maybe if there were more Asian markets than liquor stores, better schools, closer location to jobs, and quality homes (unlike Brightwater), then HB might be a nice place to live. I may not be Asian, but I can agree with them on what quality is.



<blockquote>As for me, I'll still choose Fountain Valley for now. I think that Fountain Valley High is extremely similar to Irvine High.</blockquote>


It might be now, but I have seen an abundance of foreclosures happening in FV. For a while there, I thought FV might be a good place to invest, but now... I wouldn't touch it with your money. I bet that FV high will go down hill and be below Irvine high by next year, and easily by 2010.



I am not being a jerk, when I say you need to get out of the classroom and see reality. You use your friends as anecdotal evidence, well... I could too, but some of my friends are idiots in wanting to buy now, and some bought into the bubble when I pleaded with them not to. Don't be like them. And, pick up your skirt and grab your balls and actually respond to me directly for once. These generic responses you have are weak and lame. If you need to go into your girl's LV bag to find your balls, then please do, because you need to stand up for yourself and your opinions. Otherwise myself, and anyone else here with balls, or your students will run all over you. Stand up for yourself and your opinions.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1213718659]If you need to go into your girl's LV bag to find your balls, then please do, because you need to stand up for yourself and your opinions. Otherwise myself, and anyone else here with balls, or your students will run all over you. Stand up for yourself and your opinions.</blockquote>


???



What are you talking about? Seems like the poster has been discussing both sides of this debate (as any objective observer might). You seem to be taking the presentation of the good points of both locations as some kind of cowardly fence-sitting.



In other words, get a hold of yourself. You're not making much sense to those of us who only log on occasionally. Unless there's some kind of bad blood between you and the poster, you are just coming off as rude.
 
HB all the way. The people are nice down in HB. Everyone in Irvine is stuck up. Nobody says hi to you. or take the time to chit chat. HB people are more mello and relax. Well that is the first thing i notice when i moved from HB to Irvine. But irvine has the closer commute to work and with the gas hitting 5 bucks soon.... i think i will stay in Irvine.
 
I grew up in Santa Cruz, but left to get a real job. Most of the people earning a decent living there are commuting over 17 every day, giving up 2 to 3 hours per day getting to and from work. It's grown a bit and there are some jobs, most of them are over the hill. Back in the '70's you had PhD's pumping gas. Housing prices are coming down there, but they were totally insane even before they started going up here.



Three years ago my mother sold her single wide 40 year old trailer in a senior park where you don't even own the land for $50K. An agent bought it, put in a new double wide and flipped it for a hefty profit all in under 60 days. Mom bought the trailer in '95 for $12K.



It's not a very nice city anymore either. Downtown is full of bums aggressively panhandling and drugged out punks doing the same. That nice tourist area, the Boardwalk? That's in the flats, which is an absolute ghetto and has been for quite some time now. Crack and heroine.



But then, my husband grew up in Laguna Beach and laments over how it's changed :)



Moving to Tustin Ranch in '95 and working in Irvine was like moving to another country. If I made that move today, it would be like moving to another planet. Now, I get lost in Irvine. Been working from home for three years now and went to the train station a few weeks ago and couldn't believe how much the Spectrum has grown in that short time.



The older I get, the more OC becomes less desirable, regardless of city. I find myself yearning for slower and simpler everything, which probably explains our attraction to smaller older homes with a decent sized lot. Mature trees, picket fences, heirloom tomatoes, hanging the clothes out to dry, farmer's markets, and even small closets forcing the move to eliminate more stuff.
 
Graphrix, I'm beginning to think that you're purposely being antagonistic just to get responses from me. I think you need to chill out a little. I would argue your points, but I'll just let the others digest them by themselves. Unlike you, I like Huntington, Fountain Valley, and Irvine. From my interactions with many others, I find that the ones who don't like other people or places tend to not have many people like them. If you project negativity, you'll receive it as well.



Ok, I can't help it. I must argue one point. Fountain Valley High has been a strong performing school for over a decade now. Why oh why would it suddenly go downhill? Why? Would the kids suddenly become dumber? Fountain Valley is known for the fact that residents who live there tend to stay there for a very long time. That's why the city does not get that much property tax increases. Investors/flippers have never been interested in Fountain Valley. It's an old and stable middle income city that is centrally located and close to the 405 for easy access to the north or the south. Plus it's pretty close to the beach. All it needs now is some new homes.
 
What's with the Fountain Valley love? Fountain Valley doesn't really have any room to put up new homes which is its problem unless you demolish Miles Sq Park.



The problem with Fountain Valley is, it is stuck with 1960s architecture whether the city likes it or not and from my observation its pretty much 50% Asians 40% Caucasians and 10% of whatever.
 
I see a lot of comments based on stereotyping of both cities. I lived in HB for 20+ years before moving to Irvine. Sure there are stuck up people in Irvine, but we currently have the nicest neighbors in Irvine compared to what we had in HB. I went to Huntington Beach High School and that place is pretty crappy compared to what's in Irvine, but nevertheless there are some good teachers there. Remember school is 80% teachers are 20% facility.



What I miss about HB is the ocean breeze. We lived about 5 miles from the beach, never needed air conditioning. I don't miss the traffic, and all those Harley riders riding to the beach at 8AM in the morning.
 
when my family first moved to OC, we settled in villa park. few yrs later some relatives and family friends followed us to southern calif. some settled in diamond bar, irvine, and orange -- all of them bought new homes in big new developments. my aunts family bought in the hills behind vp called belmont estates. most of them paid more than my family did, even those who moved in after the housing mkt started to turn.



my cousins lived in that belmont home which was shiny and new, with a view of all north OC. in typical asian fashion, my aunt and uncle picked out granite counters and marble flooring everywhere. a lot nicer than the very dated flooring on older vp ranch homes, imo. they also had cool (at the time) features like intercom and built-in cassette music system! i remember one time asking my parents why he chose to move to vp instead of a nicer home. my father was in the construction business and liked to joke that the reason my relatives bought new is because "your uncle can't fix anything." he said, "just wait until you're older and you'll understand. new is not nicer and all homes will get old, so it's the lot and location that means everything." i certainly learned to appreciate the big yard we had. it was large enough to play soccer and baseball without hitting balls out of the yard. that was until i got to middle school and started jacking homers over the fence. then i switched to batting left-handed but ended up developing the same power from both sides.



i remember my brother once driving into the garage door when he was 16 and cracked one side of the door. my mom thought we might as well replace the ugly old garage door but the repairman who came said it was easy to repair the wood. in fact, he said if we wanted to replace the door, he wouldn't take the job. a solid, real wood garage door like that they don't make anymore. i guess that guy was really into garage doors. new $2M homes these days don't even have real wood doors. they're just thin metal panels painted and textured to look like wood. some even have handles... but like so much about new homes, it's just a facade.



yrs later, my dad's wisdom was certainly on the money, literally. those homes in belmont are now just 20 yr old rows of dense stucco boxes. and even the premium hilltop location isn't so premium anymore since there are even more rows of newer stucco boxes at cerro villa heights and serrano heights. these homes have all the cool (at this time) features like fake fireplaces and balconies too small to stand on! meanwhile at the bottom of the hill, vp is still vp. over the yrs we've seen homes in the neighborhood do stunning remodels into beautiful custom homes that rival anything in the best parts of irvine.
 
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