Looking for a historic/older home

V

Vlad_IHB

New member
My wife and I have been looking at homes mainly in Irvine, Orange and Tustin. The more we look, the more we're realizing that we really like the older, historic homes such as the ones in around the Tustin and Orange Old Town areas. Actually, the reason we started looking at older areas at all is because we saw one in Old Town Tustin that we really liked, unfortunately it was taken off the market.



Anyway, I just wanted to see whether anyone had any thoughts about buying in these older areas. Are there things that we should be particularly concerned about? I notice that the condition of the homes seem to vary quite a bit. In general, are the areas improving or getting worse?
 
Use the search key to the right and check out North Tustin, Floral Park, Park Santiago. You will find that there are plenty of people here who appreciate older homes, in well-established neighborhoods. There are numerous benefits and a lot written here. Do a search also for "mature trees" and "frontal garages" and you'll get a good education from our own resident architect, bkshopper.
 
Historic homes is like an antique car. Conditions could run from immaculate to run down. Some like to take on the challenges to repairing them to their former beauty by buying them cheap. A totally renovated home or car commands top dollar and there are shoppers out there who appreciate the nostalgic aesthetic.



Vintage homes rarely have a floor plan suited for modern living. Closets and kitchen are too small and Living room almost never could accommodate a TV. Bedrooms are too small without a proper bed wall. Bath count is never enough and fixture location is awkward. Despite of all the shortcomings many buyers and especially celebrities seek out the best of the vintage houses.



Vintage cars are the same way lacking air, cup holders, electronic gadgets and etc but collectors continue to look for the rare cars.



The common traits are both were solidly built. The aesthetic is beautiful and well executed.



In OC there are numerous vintage neighborhoods that are not ruined. Older homes in the past often situated on a very large piece of property with orchards and farms. The distance between homes were well spaced. Over the last 80 years the land in between homes were sold to builders to erect more homes and in many cases apartments, stores and even industries. The unfortunate ones busy roads and freeways were built in front of them. Garden Grove, Anaheim, Santa Ana and Westminster all suffered from the subsequent unfortunate addition and lost almost all of their charm.



The remaining old neighborhoods that still have enough of a critical mass are Old Town Orange, Floral park, Park Santiago, Fisher Park, Morrison Park, West Floral Park, Old Town Tustin and Anaheim Colony, and Fullerton. The largest homes are in Floral Park where the affluent population resided during the 20s-50's.



Old Town Orange is the oldest of all started in the 1880's. Homes were modest and were constructed from Sears kit houses shipped to the sites near the railroad depots. The kits ranged from 800sf-1200sf and over the years owners expanded the house toward the rear and often with awkward transitions. Detached carriage style garage were just some of the accessories owners ordered. The bungalow style homes were very efficient and compact. The local architectural guideline would allow only a 10% expansion every few years so it is difficult and time consuming to achieve a large home. The small lots were undesirable to the greedy apartment developers. Acquiring several contiguous lots were impossible so this neighborhood was spared.



Old Town Tustin were homes to plantation owners with primary homes in Pasadena and Highland Park during the 1890's. Produce and agriculture were important in this region to sustain the growing population of Los Angeles and San Diego. Owen and San Joaquin were just starting to flourish at this time. The remaining Victorians were their homes while the smaller houses were their domestic helpers and farmers home. It is the closest to Irvine and certainly has its appeal. The neighborhood IMO is cut up by several busy streets and too many access points. It does however have the charming neighborhood stores and restaurants.



The freeway that destroyed neighborhoods also saved both Old Town Tustin and Floral Park because both neighborhoods were tucked and wedged against the freeway walls at an angle and the lots were triangular and inefficient for apartment monstrosities. The access to them were difficult and during the urban renewal era living close to the freeway was undesirable.
 
[quote author="Vlad" date=1248923269]My wife and I have been looking at homes mainly in Irvine, Orange and Tustin. The more we look, the more we're realizing that we really like the older, historic homes such as the ones in around the Tustin and Orange Old Town areas. Actually, the reason we started looking at older areas at all is because we saw one in Old Town Tustin that we really liked, unfortunately it was taken off the market.



Anyway, I just wanted to see whether anyone had any thoughts about buying in these older areas. Are there things that we should be particularly concerned about? I notice that the condition of the homes seem to vary quite a bit. In general, are the areas improving or getting worse?</blockquote>
Take a look at Floral Park and Fullerton.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1249046559]Historic homes is like an antique car. Conditions could run from immaculate to run down. Some like to take on the challenges to repairing them to their former beauty by buying them cheap. A totally renovated home or car commands top dollar and there are shoppers out there who appreciate the nostalgic aesthetic.



Vintage homes rarely have a floor plan suited for modern living. Closets and kitchen are too small and Living room almost never could accommodate a TV. Bedrooms are too small without a proper bed wall. Bath count is never enough and fixture location is awkward. Despite of all the shortcomings many buyers and especially celebrities seek out the best of the vintage houses.



Vintage cars are the same way lacking air, cup holders, electronic gadgets and etc but collectors continue to look for the rare cars.



</blockquote>


I used to live in an old 3 br 1 bath house that was full of character in a nice leafy neighborhood. It was always a challenge keeping the bathroom neat enough for the impromptu guests who dropped by. If I had overnight guests, I usually had to brush my teeth over the kitchen sink. We used the 3rd bedroom as our walk-in-closet as the rooms had no closets. We used the 2nd bedroom as the TV room/office as there was no logical place for a TV in the living room. My plan was to add a master bedroom into the backyard but we had to move before we could do that. If you want to live in a historic house that is not a Floral Park mansion, be prepared to make some extreme lifestyle sacrifices.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1249086154][quote author="bkshopr" date=1249046559]Historic homes is like an antique car. Conditions could run from immaculate to run down. Some like to take on the challenges to repairing them to their former beauty by buying them cheap. A totally renovated home or car commands top dollar and there are shoppers out there who appreciate the nostalgic aesthetic.



Vintage homes rarely have a floor plan suited for modern living. Closets and kitchen are too small and Living room almost never could accommodate a TV. Bedrooms are too small without a proper bed wall. Bath count is never enough and fixture location is awkward. Despite of all the shortcomings many buyers and especially celebrities seek out the best of the vintage houses.



Vintage cars are the same way lacking air, cup holders, electronic gadgets and etc but collectors continue to look for the rare cars.



</blockquote>


I used to live in an old 3 br 1 bath house that was full of character in a nice leafy neighborhood. It was always a challenge keeping the bathroom neat enough for the impromptu guests who dropped by. If I had overnight guests, I usually had to brush my teeth over the kitchen sink. We used the 3rd bedroom as our walk-in-closet as the rooms had no closets. We used the 2nd bedroom as the TV room/office as there was no logical place for a TV in the living room. My plan was to add a master bedroom into the backyard but we had to move before we could do that. If you want to live in a historic house that is not a Floral Park mansion, be prepared to make some extreme lifestyle sacrifices.</blockquote>


I would second that unless you've already been living in an older home. There are many things about your lifestyle to consider when you are looking at these houses. Electrical upgrades to suit internet and other electronic needs, number and placement of electrical outlets, measure the space for the refrigerator and compare that to the size you have or are used to. Imagine yourself and your family actually using the existing bathrooms, look carefully at the height of the sinks. Craftsman style homes usually have bigger, more open spaces with high ceilings. For me, Victorian style homes, while very lovely, have all sorts of cramped, small spaces. These homes make me feel claustrophobic. Look carefully at anything that has been added on, while it might be a good use of space, does it help or hinder the aesthetics of the home? Bk's warning about closets should also be heeded. The largest room in our home is not the master bedroom, I would love for it to be an adult bedroom, but it only has one tiny closet, so it just won't work. Picture who would be in each room, usually there is one room with somewhat ample closet space, hopefully it is also the biggest room. My 5 year old son gets the largest room in the house, it's just not fair. It may seem that I hate my house, I don't. There are definitely things I would change, but the location and the massive size of the yard (we also have a rare large kitchen) makes up for everything else.
 
Neighborhood characters, estate size yard, privacy, no two homes alike and quality of construction and details are the usual reason why vintage homeowners seek out these homes. The well preserved neighborhoods are expensive but money being well spent for land and quality of life. Average density for older neighborhoods is about 2 homes per acre while newer neighborhood is about 10 homes per acre.



Older neighborhoods offer more single story homes and plenty of land to the side to expand a 2 car to a 3 car garage. Very few people did that but the option is out there. The biggest thing about older homes is the opportunity to expansion (not old town Orange) without HOA and guideline to restrict them. This can be good and evil. Asians and Persians remodels in an vintage neighborhoods often meant bad news to the neighborhood aesthetic from my observation. HOA and guideline in new suburbs are there to curb some of the detriments.



As neighborhoods age so does its residents. A good house often meant less turnovers and the homeowners stay rooted. Without the influx of new homes and younger population schools began to lose its population and eventually losing the required financial resources for quality education.
 
Thank you everyone for the fantastic info. I'm especially impressed with bkshopr's depth of knowledge about these areas. We took a look at a house in Floral Park earlier this week, having driven through that neighborhood I can see what High Gravity means by mansions. The houses there are huge and very well kept. Unless I missed something, I do wish there were some old shops or some kind of old town type of area there. So far I've really preferred the more Spanish style homes, although the Victorians do have their charm.



It's also great to hear some of your comments about living in a vintage home. I've never lived in a such an old home before, but I've had friends that have rented them down in San Diego and have always loved their style and uniqueness.



I'm thinking maybe we'll go down to Fullerton this weekend and check out the older areas there. The down side to Fullerton is that my wife teaches there and she wouldn't want to run into her students all the time.
 
[quote author="Vlad" date=1249097142]Thank you everyone for the fantastic info. I'm especially impressed with bkshopr's depth of knowledge about these areas. We took a look at a house in Floral Park earlier this week, having driven through that neighborhood I can see what High Gravity means by mansions. The houses there are huge and very well kept. Unless I missed something, I do wish there were some old shops or some kind of old town type of area there. So far I've really preferred the more Spanish style homes, although the Victorians do have their charm.



It's also great to hear some of your comments about living in a vintage home. I've never lived in a such an old home before, but I've had friends that have rented them down in San Diego and have always loved their style and uniqueness.



I'm thinking maybe we'll go down to Fullerton this weekend and check out the older areas there. <strong>The down side to Fullerton is that my wife teaches there and she wouldn't want to run into her students all the time.</blockquote></strong>



My husband and I teach and live in the same city, it's not that bad running into students.
 
Vlad,



Use the search button and search for the Fullerton thread. Type in "bkshopr fullerton sunkist" to weed out one liner posts.
 
West Floral Park over shadowed by Floral Park does not command the top dollars for the properties. However it is a great place to start. It is the best bargain out there. A single story home 1,900 sf on a 1/3 acre lot is only 500k.
 
I would just like to add a few observations about Fullerton's historic neighborhoods. There are three main sections in Fullerton with vintage homes.



The first area is called Golden Hills which is defined by Chapman, Harbor, Woods and Valley View Drive.



The first three streets beyond Chapman -Jacaranda Place, Malvern, and Brookdale Place are very picturesque due to the mature trees. Brookdale Place is impeccably kept up. I came very close to buying a colonial revival home there early this year. However, my husband killed the deal because of the lack of privacy in the back yard caused by the slope of the hill. At first, I viewed Brookdale Place as the most desirable street to live on. But after walking the various streets many times, I've noticed Brookdale is too mausoleum-like and I rarely encountered the inhabitants there. Malvern and Jacaranda, on the other hand, are very neighborly and lively. You'll notice these home almost all have front porches and the front yards are large with few driveways or fences breaking up the long spans of grass. The times I've walked these streets I see children playing, people sitting on their porches, neighbors visiting, people out walking. The down side to these two streets are the home sizes which are typically 1,000 sqft, 1,500 sq ft max. Yards are 6,500-7,000 sq ft, though.



If you admire Spanish style homes cruise up Richman and take a left at Fern Drive as there are some beautiful more stately homes. The art collector Norman Simon, famous for his good eye, lived in this neighborhood in the 30's.



The second area is called Raymond Hills which is just east of Golden Hills across Harbor. The neighborhood with the historical homes is adjacent to the historical Hillcrest Park. Be sure to checkout Mcdonna's Spanish dream estate at the corner of Canon and Frances. This neighborhood doesn't have the beautiful tree line trees of Golden Hills but many of the homes have killer views. The turn over in this neighborhood is extremely low. There are about 100 historical homes and only 6 have changed hands in 5 years. I might be waiting a long time for that dream abode of mine.



The last area is south of Chapman in the neighborhoods east and west of Harbor surrounding the downtown area. This area is not as nice as the first two. Largely because the city allowed to many people to turn their properties into duplexes. The section just south of Golden Hills near Ford Park is well kept and has less rentals. Check out the neighborhood between Richman, Wilshire, Woods and Chapman.



Hope this helps in your tour.
 
M80's insight of Fullerton neighborhood is by far the most comprehensive describing the various quadrants and their attributes.
 
3/2 house in West Floral Park. 0.2 acre for $559K



This is the cheapest house I found in the neighborhood.



Agents desriptions:



Classic 50's Roy Russell custom home. Original raised panel solid wood doors and cabinets, refinished hardwood floors, plaster walls, raised foundation and quality construction typical for the area. Beautiful upgrades include; striking tropical back yard with Pool & spa, fire ring and covered patio. Granite counters with glass like back splash and stainless appliances, new AC, custom paint finishes, beautiful landscape. This home is warm and full of light and very appealing. There is a cozy den with original knotty pine paneling and corner fireplace that opens to the large living room and also to the kitchen and dining area. There is ample storage with a walk-in pantry and storage room off the 1st hall. Other features include an over sized 2 car detached garage, portecochere, front porch, dutch door, updated baths. This is a striking home and an awesome value



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p671194_socal-11.jpg" alt="" />

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<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/images/P671194_SOCAL.jpg" alt="" />
 
Fairytale tudor in Floral Park with 2 master suites and 1/4 acre land.



30 days in the market with back up offers.



Agents descriptions:



Exquisite English Tudor home in Award Winning Neighborhood of Floral Park. This home has everything! Step into the East Coast feel of this home with it's dark hardwood flooring, crisp white walls and newer windows throughout (some sea grass flooring). Kitchen redone with new appliances including Aga stove;walk-in pantry. Kitchen looks onto light and bright family room area. Formal Dining room has new French wood doors. All bathrooms redone with marble and newer showers/tubs. 2 master suites (one upstairs/one downstairs). Too many upgrades to mention! Mills Act home. Backyard-very private, large yard behind garage as well.





<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p691878_socal-1.jpg" alt="" />



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/images/P691878_SOCAL.jpg" alt="" />

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[quote author="bkshopr" date=1249110114]3/2 house in West Floral Park. 0.2 acre for $559K



This is the cheapest house I found in the neighborhood.



Agents desriptions:



Classic 50's Roy Russell custom home. Original raised panel solid wood doors and cabinets, refinished hardwood floors, plaster walls, raised foundation and quality construction typical for the area. Beautiful upgrades include; striking tropical back yard with Pool & spa, fire ring and covered patio. Granite counters with glass like back splash and stainless appliances, new AC, custom paint finishes, beautiful landscape. This home is warm and full of light and very appealing. There is a cozy den with original knotty pine paneling and corner fireplace that opens to the large living room and also to the kitchen and dining area. There is ample storage with a walk-in pantry and storage room off the 1st hall. Other features include an over sized 2 car detached garage, portecochere, front porch, dutch door, updated baths. This is a striking home and an awesome value



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p671194_socal-11.jpg" alt="" />

<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p671194_socal-12.jpg" alt="" />



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p671194_socal-9.jpg" alt="" />



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p671194_socal-8.jpg" alt="" />



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p671194_socal-6.jpg" alt="" />



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/addl_picts/p671194_socal-2.jpg" alt="" />



<img src="http://homeseekers.cyberhomes.com/ListingImages/carets/images/P671194_SOCAL.jpg" alt="" /></blockquote>
Damn, that house looks nice...if it was about $100k-$150k cheaper and I had a full time job I'd be all over that home. What's the address? Do you have a link?
 
[quote author="Vlad" date=1249097142]Thank you everyone for the fantastic info. I'm especially impressed with bkshopr's depth of knowledge about these areas. We took a look at a house in Floral Park earlier this week, having driven through that neighborhood I can see what High Gravity means by mansions. The houses there are huge and very well kept. Unless I missed something, I do wish there were some old shops or some kind of old town type of area there. So far I've really preferred the more Spanish style homes, although the Victorians do have their charm.



It's also great to hear some of your comments about living in a vintage home. I've never lived in a such an old home before, but I've had friends that have rented them down in San Diego and have always loved their style and uniqueness.



I'm thinking maybe we'll go down to Fullerton this weekend and check out the older areas there. The down side to Fullerton is that my wife teaches there and she wouldn't want to run into her students all the time.</blockquote>
Vlad, McDonna1980 is the forum expert on vintage homes in Fullerton. I'm her and her husband's buyers' agent but she taught me about the area and I am seriously considering buying a small home up there when it comes time.
 
[quote author="Mcdonna1980" date=1249107024]I would just like to add a few observations about Fullerton's historic neighborhoods. There are three main sections in Fullerton with vintage homes.



The first area is called Golden Hills which is defined by Chapman, Harbor, Woods and Valley View Drive.



The first three streets beyond Chapman -Jacaranda Place, Malvern, and Brookdale Place are very picturesque due to the mature trees. Brookdale Place is impeccably kept up. I came very close to buying a colonial revival home there early this year. However, my husband killed the deal because of the lack of privacy in the back yard caused by the slope of the hill. At first, I viewed Brookdale Place as the most desirable street to live on. But after walking the various streets many times, I've noticed Brookdale is too mausoleum-like and I rarely encountered the inhabitants there. Malvern and Jacaranda, on the other hand, are very neighborly and lively. You'll notice these home almost all have front porches and the front yards are large with few driveways or fences breaking up the long spans of grass. The times I've walked these streets I see children playing, people sitting on their porches, neighbors visiting, people out walking. The down side to these two streets are the home sizes which are typically 1,000 sqft, 1,500 sq ft max. Yards are 6,500-7,000 sq ft, though.



If you admire Spanish style homes cruise up Richman and take a left at Fern Drive as there are some beautiful more stately homes. The art collector Norman Simon, famous for his good eye, lived in this neighborhood in the 30's.



The second area is called Raymond Hills which is just east of Golden Hills across Harbor. The neighborhood with the historical homes is adjacent to the historical Hillcrest Park. Be sure to checkout Mcdonna's Spanish dream estate at the corner of Canon and Frances. This neighborhood doesn't have the beautiful tree line trees of Golden Hills but many of the homes have killer views. The turn over in this neighborhood is extremely low. There are about 100 historical homes and only 6 have changed hands in 5 years. I might be waiting a long time for that dream abode of mine.



The last area is south of Chapman in the neighborhoods east and west of Harbor surrounding the downtown area. This area is not as nice as the first two. Largely because the city allowed to many people to turn their properties into duplexes. The section just south of Golden Hills near Ford Park is well kept and has less rentals. Check out the neighborhood between Richman, Wilshire, Woods and Chapman.



Hope this helps in your tour.</blockquote>


Great info here McD, I'll definitely map these places out when we go take a look around. Thanks a lot!
 
I see <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Fullerton/621-Golden-Ave-92832/home/3179671">this house</a> in Fullerton is having an open house today from 1-4pm. It's way over priced based on recent comps but might be fun for you to take a look inside on your tour.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1249119323]

Vlad, McDonna1980 is the forum expert on vintage homes in Fullerton.</blockquote>


Thanks but hardly called myself an expert. More like a noisy busy body. :)
 
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