July 28th California goes bust

[quote author="awgee" date=1245536598]Pay for 10 year average performance.</blockquote>


People in the same job for 10 years stagnate. It's the most common thing I see whenever I roll into an organization that needs a turn-around or retrenchment. Lots of long term employees that have been in the same position for many years.
 
<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN2820979720080429">Don't blame the current CALPERS chief.</a> She only took over after things started going south. While I would like to think that these folks know more than most and didn't suffer any losses or less than the market has taken to date, I don't know if that is realistic. Some (then?) very well respected investment advisors I'm aware of doubled down on Fannie and Freddie after their first big tumble, at a point when a know-nothing like me would have bailed. Which I guess is a long way of saying I don't understand why you would have expected CALPERS to have a better result than Bear, Merrill, etc. I can understand <em>wanting</em> them to have a better result, but I don't know that it is reasonable to expect it.



I would also like to thank apcme for his understanding and support. I have been following this thread off and on (and two other related ones) when I have been able, and there were times I wondered if the rest of you wouldn't find it a better use of my skills and abilities as a public employee to simply drag a razor across my wrists. Imagine my surprise when reading this thread (or one of the other ones) at 3 a.m. while waiting for a large document to print (no fancy fast printers for us!) and learning that I basically sit on my butt all day looking out the window, moving only enough to empty the wallets of passers-by. (No, no one said that exactly, but is my interpretation that far off?). The vitriol put me in a funk for weeks.



From what I've read, it appears that people don't understand all the parts of the issues, and I blame the media for that because they have done a piss poor job by conflating many of the various issues into a lump. What do you mean by "state employees?" I ask because within the state, there are three branches of government (executive, legislative, and judicial), city and county governments, and special districts (e.g., water districts, vector control districts, redevelopment agencies), and other public entities such as the UCs and CSUs, among others. Within each of these, there are different levels of employees such as hourly vs. salary, represented vs. not, executive vs. managerial vs. supervisory vs. not, and the salaries and benefits for each of these is determined differently not just for the type of employee, but for whom they work. Not all public employees are union members. Executive and managerial employees cannot be union members (if everybody is ?labor,? who is ?management??), and some professionals might be, but not all are. Further, the agreements vary by bargaining unit, so what an employee of the City of Oakland gets is different from a represented UC employee, which is different from a County of Orange represented employee, which is different from a represented DMV employee, which is different from a CHP patrol officer, and so on.



If you run a search for "wimpy," you will see that I have explained this compensation scheme (in particular the retirement benefits) as "The Wimpy Rule," as in "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today." Public entities pay less in salary for similar work and experience in exchange for making it up with better benefits. People talk about how the <em>unfunded</em> retirement promises of the various public entities will doom ?taxpayers.? Well, public employees are taxpayers, too, so if tax rates go up, they go up on us too. We don?t have some special public employee tax shield. Moreover, can someone explain to me how it is the employee?s fault that the various state, county, city, and special district governing bodies chose to not set aside sufficient money as they went along? Personally, I think that is the more responsible thing, but instead many chose to ?current fund? them (i.e., pay them as they became due) or engage in overly optimistic scenarios as to investment returns which would allow for a combination of ongoing set aside, investment return, and current funding. At this point, the public has received its end of the bargain ? the labor ? and it is an intangible that cannot be returned, so it hardly seems fair to take away a bargained and ?paid? for benefit. (Not to mention that the Contracts Clause of the US Constitution does not allow non-federal public entities to break their contracts with impunity.)



Somebody, somewhere brought up the retirement benefits of a retired Anaheim city manager. That is a local executive employee. His salary and benefits were set by the city counsel and were negotiated like the CEO of a private company. His retirement might be paid <em>through</em> CALPERS, but it is paid <em>by</em> the City of Anaheim. The "CEO" of my public entity made approximately $235K per year (after ~35 years with this entity). He managed an entity of ~1800 people across six sites. I don't know exactly what someone with similar experience and responsibility would command in the private sector, but I have no doubt that it would have been more than $235K per year. But in exchange for the lower than average pay "today," he got a retirement package "tomorrow" and some decent benefits. (Or as Steve Lopez would say "Cadillac benefits." But my question is, "Cadillac" compared to what?)



If these jobs are oh-so-cushy, I'm really curious why no one here bothered to get one when the public sector was hiring?



Oh wait, it's because they are not.



I took an ~33% pay cut to work in the public sector (really, more like 50% when you consider that I cannot earn a bonus like I used to). Roughly every three years I <em>might</em> get a cost of living increase. I got one last year, but that has now been erased (and more) by the deficit-induced pay cut. Being civil service, I have a small range of "merit" (i.e., performance) raise I can qualify for. (If you have been in the military or federal government, this scheme might be familiar to you.) And while I am happy to see that my superiors think enough of me to give me a greater than average merit increase, it speeds up the time in which I will cap my salary, when I hit the top of the range. I have a colleague who after working in her job for five years would only get a pay increase in the rare years COLAs were given. If she works there for 20 years, 10+ of them will be without a pay raise of any kind. She is one they would want to keep, too, because her work ethic and skills are both amazing, even though she no longer gets a raise.



"Well, you work less, so you've traded money for time." WRONG. I work harder now than I used to in the private sector. My schedule is more grueling and I have far less control over it because it is set by the public. The amount of work I have to do is determined by the greater and collective you, and y?all have decided to use my agency?s service more than ever. Oh, and I'm salaried, so no fat overtime for me. In another thread, somebody said, ?I hear government employees only work three to four hours a day.? I will readily admit that that is true for me ? when I work on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays (which is more often than not).



If making money is your #1 priority, working as public employee makes no sense. Even though I took a big pay cut for more work, I really like my job. I like the people I work with and the work is challenging and engaging. Those are qualities that are more important to me than money. (Money comes in around #3, 'cause I still have to make a living.) There were some jobs I had where I made really good money, but simply hated them because of the people and/or the work (which was so not challenging, I actually got dumber by the day from not using my brain).



Back in January, George Skelton was complaining that no one except public employees get Martin Luther King day off and that public employees should be compensated more like private employees. And if that is the route people want to go, fine by me. Give me a $60K to $80K raise, and allow me to earn bonuses. I can pretty much guess, however, that no one wants to pay the taxes to cover that.



I have a lot more I could share, but this is already too long. If anyone has questions, I?m happy to answer them to the extent I know the answer.
 
I have always noticed that everyone complains about the benefits and salary of those of us who work in the public sector during a recession. They really don't have the time to complain during the fat times, they are too busy working and spending their much higher than my own salary. There are those of us who appreciate a secure monthly paycheck and those who appreciate the challenge of possibly limitless compensation. When those who loved the thrill of the hunt get laid off or see some sort of change in their ability to make money, they immediately turn around and look at everyone else and start the blame game.
 
Eva,



I believe that the general public demands far more from their government than they are willing to pay for.



I agree that there are many hard-working public employees. I've had the pleasure of working with one such project manager from the Department of Toxic Substances Control on a project for the past six months. He was dedicated, decisive, and helpful throughout the project. But I also have first-hand experience (even in that same department) with incompetent, obstructive, self-serving, seat warmers that do nothing productive, and cause great harm to the public they serve, and the reputation of their fellow employees.



Several years ago, I was contracted by a department of the Orange County government to provide some technical services on an as-needed basis. They had full-time personnel for that service, but those people were not as capable or responsive as I was. I got to know many of the staff members there. What was surprising to me was how many of them had second sources of income, which they actively managed while at work on the public payroll. Whether it was the lady with the VERY active E-bay sales of Ty Beanie Babies, or the folks that managed apartment and rental houses, many seemed to spend a lot of time doing work that was not related to their job description. My major complaint is that there seems to be no means of separating such teat-suckers from their government-printed paychecks and benefits.
 
[quote author="GoIllini" date=1247011429]Eva,



I believe that the general public demands far more from their government than they are willing to pay for.



I agree that there are many hard-working public employees. I've had the pleasure of working with one such project manager from the Department of Toxic Substances Control on a project for the past six months. He was dedicated, decisive, and helpful throughout the project. But I also have first-hand experience (even in that same department) with incompetent, obstructive, self-serving, seat warmers that do nothing productive, and cause great harm to the public they serve, and the reputation of their fellow employees.



Several years ago, I was contracted by a department of the Orange County government to provide some technical services on an as-needed basis. They had full-time personnel for that service, but those people were not as capable or responsive as I was. I got to know many of the staff members there. What was surprising to me was how many of them had second sources of income, which they actively managed while at work on the public payroll. Whether it was the lady with the VERY active E-bay sales of Ty Beanie Babies, or the folks that managed apartment and rental houses, many seemed to spend a lot of time doing work that was not related to their job description. My major complaint is that there seems to be no means of separating such teat-suckers from their government-printed paychecks and benefits.</blockquote>


I also work with some folks who don't pull their weight. My experience is that this is not, as a percentage, any greater than it was in the private sector. YMOCMV. There was one person, fortunately low on the totem pole, who me and my colleagues would have liked to see perf'ed out. This person was a "political" hire (had a friend in high places that supported his/her hire), and I don't know if that impacts the ability of the supervisor to make any changes. Again, not so different than the private sector when a big client's spawn would be offered a job whether the best person or not. And now, we have the added complication of a hiring freeze, so it is actually in our best interest to keep a person who only gives 30% to 50%, than have no one in that position and get 0%.



Obviously I can only speak from my experience, but sometimes supervisors are loathe to discipline or terminate someone because they think it is more hassle than its worth. My husband (private sector, always) has received "a talking to" from higher ups every time he has terminated someone (which has always been for performance reasons) because the company was fearful of being sued or otherwise put through the ringer, even though the termination was valid.



But I have good news for you - you <em>can</em> help separate the blood suckers from their jobs. While I don't know the particular policies and procedures of this department, there may be ethical and/or conflict of interest rules, or even IT access rules that prevent this sort of behavior. Go <a href="http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/">here</a>, and under the "How do I?" pulldown menu select "Give Feedback." In section 1, select "Department Feedback" then "Other." In Section 2, select "Complaint" from the pulldown menu, and then describe what you saw and the department it occurred in. If there is a particular address involved, fill it in in section 3. In section 4 you can choose to register by name or anonymously, or you can send the complaint anonymously. I would also suggest sending a copy to each member of the Board of Supervisors because it has to do with appropriation of funds. And because it could be considered a waste of County funds to hire consultants to do work employees could / should be doing, I would suggest sending your complaint to <a href="http://www.ocgrandjury.org/instructions.asp">the OC Grand Jury.</a>



I do hope you follow up, and that if you do, you let us know if you see any results.



Thanks for your comment.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1247006384]While I would like to think that these If these jobs are oh-so-cushy, I'm really curious why no one here bothered to get one when the public sector was hiring?



Oh wait, it's because they are not.

</blockquote>


I talked and interviewed for one. The skills and needs matched up greatly. The salary caused them concern, the culture would have killed me. There were obviously several very dedicated and bright people. Then there were the others. Kind of reminded me of the UAW with GM which I've also had the displeasure of crossing paths with in employment. And as you mentioned, not that unlike a poorly run company, again, like GM.



I should probably clarify. By poorly run, I don't just the poorly run. In corporations the result of poorly run is a combination of mismanagement, misallocation of resources and inertia. In government, I don't know the cause, but from the few interactions and discussions I've had it's a combination of work/union rules, oversight paralysis, sourcing rules and penny wise pound foolish. The printer example Eva uses is classic resources idle because of an improperly size tool on which the appropriately sized tool has a lower TCO and net additional Capital outlay of $20/month in depreciation.



At a recent conference, heavily attended by Government agencies, the discrepency between private and public was stark. Private sector refresh cycle for laptops? 3 years. Government? - 5 years. (if they had one). Equally stark was the amount of money and energy being expended to basically bandaid around the issues caused by such. It's similar to the problems we have with infrastructure for schools and roads.
 
Sooo... I still offer my services to manage CalPers. I will do it for private investment managerial fees, I.E. 1% of AUM and 20% of the profits, and there will be the standard high water mark. Do the math, I will make a boatload more than all the managers/VPs of CalPers. Even if I shorted subprime/RE/CRE, or if I didn't, I would still make more money than all the managers/VPs of CalPers.



While there are dumb a$$ slackers in the guberment, there are people like EvaL, who work their a$$ off. I know, because EvaL has had to cancel an event because she has had to work beyond her defined means. As a taxpayer. I don't mind helping her add to her retirement fund. Why? Because you never know, you may need her in the end. Many "public" workers are overwhelmed by the amount of BKs, yeah it sucks that we have to pay for that, but if you are a true capitalist you know that failure can happen. It is the risk you take as a capitalist. There are so many other services that we take for granted as a public person that will never be appreciated. Yes, there are morons, but figure out a way to change how they are hired/fired/let go. It isn't a Democratic or Republican thing, it is a universal problem that both parties take advantage of.
 
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31804471/ns/business-us_business/">Banks bashed over plan to refuse Calif. IOUs -- Some say effects of banks' plan would ripple through state's economy</a>



NEW YORK - After taking multibillion-dollar bailouts from the federal government, some of the nation's biggest banks are declining to lend a hand with a different financial mess: the California budget stalemate.



The banks, including JPMorgan Chase & Co., Bank of America Corp., Wells Fargo & Co. and Citigroup Inc. and some regional banks, are trying to pressure lawmakers to end the impasse by warning that, after Friday, they won't accept IOUs issued by the state. The move would leave many businesses and families with pieces of paper and fewer options for getting their money immediately.



Government officials and consumer advocates say the banks should be more sympathetic, especially since they've been the direct beneficiaries of taxpayer dollars.

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"If they hold to that stance, then there's potential for hardship being suffered by the recipients of IOUs," said Tom Dresslar, spokesman in the California Treasurer's office.



Unless recipients are able to hold IOUs until Oct. 2, the official redemption date, "they'll have to scramble" to feed their families and meet obligations, Dresslar said.



At Rhodes Consolidated Inc. in Galt, Calif., owner Fred Rhodes said that if banks stop accepting IOUs, his family's income will suffer and the company will likely have to stop paying its own vendors. The industrial supply company provides state agencies with plumbing and electrical parts.



As California legislators haggle over how to close a $26.3 billion budget deficit, the state is expected to send out $3.3 billion in IOUs this month to private contractors, state vendors, people getting tax refunds and local governments for social services.



It is the first time since 1992, and just the second time since the Great Depression, the state has sent out notes promising repayment at a later date instead of paying its bills on time. The IOUs carry an annual interest rate of 3.75 percent.



Some banks are already placing limits on the IOUs, accepting them from existing customers only.



"We would like for the state to resolve its budget issues as soon as possible," said Tom Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase. The bank said it was in contact with California state officials for several weeks leading up to the decision to start printing the IOUs.



At Bank of America, which counts the state of California as a commercial client, existing customers can only deposit IOUs ? and only until Friday.



"We don't want acceptance (of IOUs) to deter the state from a budget agreement," bank spokeswoman Julie Westermann said.



But that strategy could backfire for banks that already have an image problem after taking tens of billions of dollars from the government to make up for the losses they suffered on risky mortgage investments.



The banks "can come up with any justification they want, but there will be extreme anger," said Stan Collender, managing director at Qorvis Communications, a business consulting and public relations firm in Washington. If businesses and families suffer because they couldn't cash IOUs, the banks will be viewed as "another bad guy," Collender said.



JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo each received a $25 billion federal bailout in October. JPMorgan repaid the U.S. Treasury last month. Bank of America and Citigroup each received $45 billion in multiple installments between October and January. Each also benefits from guarantees against losses ? $7.5 billion for Bank of America and $5 billion for Citi.



The banks could also find themselves losing customers to institutions willing to keep accepting IOUs. Some credit unions have been more flexible by not setting a deadline, according to the California Credit Union League. Nearly 60 have already said they would accept the IOUs and only two might stop accepting them on Friday, league spokesman Henry Kertman said.



The federal government has not so far intervened, but it could pressure the banks to continue accepting the IOUs.



"Clearly, the federal government has leverage over these institutions," said Matthew Lee, executive director of Inner City Press-Fair Finance Watch, a Bronx, N.Y.-based consumer advocacy group. Hundreds of banks have received aid from the government as part of its $700 billion rescue plan last fall.



In 1992, IOUs were sent out during a stalemate between then-Gov. Pete Wilson and the Legislature. Some banks initially accepted the IOUs, but began declining them as the impasse continued.

Story continues below ?advertisement | your ad here



If that happens this time, some alternatives could be set up to help customers awaiting payment from the government.



"They're certainly not just abandoning their customers as of July 10," Beth Mills, a spokeswoman for the California Bankers Association said. Mills said that while banks might stop accepting the IOUs, many might issue loans or establish lines of credit with customers instead. Bank customers could then repay the short-term loans in October after the state makes good on paying the IOUs.



Another possibility is that a secondary market could be established to buy up IOUs. SecondMarket, which creates marketplaces for the trading of illiquid assets, has received "decent interest" from potential buyers of the IOUs, said Jeremy Smith, the New York-based company's chief strategy office. SecondMarket will likely create a process for trading the IOUs if banks stop accepting them.



Hedge funds and municipal bond and distressed asset investors have already expressed interest in finding a place to purchase the IOUs, Smith said.



But pricing in a secondary market is still murky and customers could end up getting less than face value.



Vendors and contractors holding IOUs could potentially use them to pay state taxes, fees and liens under a bill passed by a state Assembly committee Tuesday. The bill would require the state to accept its own IOUs in lieu of money owed the government.



That could help a company like Noah Homes, which operates eight homes for 70 developmentally disabled adults in San Diego County. CEO Molly Nocon said that if Noah Homes could use IOUs to pay state licensing fees, payroll taxes and other state costs, it could save about $150,000 a year.



"If we could avoid that, it would keep us in business another couple of months."



If using the IOUs to pay government fees and taxes is not possible, the situation becomes more difficult. Nocon said the company might have to tap a $500,000 line of credit, which could help the company stay in business for about four months, she said. But that would mean Noah Homes would also be running up interest charges.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1247046543]



But I have good news for you - you <em>can</em> help separate the blood suckers from their jobs. While I don't know the particular policies and procedures of this department, there may be ethical and/or conflict of interest rules, or even IT access rules that prevent this sort of behavior. Go <a href="http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/">here</a>, and under the "How do I?" pulldown menu select "Give Feedback." In section 1, select "Department Feedback" then "Other." In Section 2, select "Complaint" from the pulldown menu, and then describe what you saw and the department it occurred in. If there is a particular address involved, fill it in in section 3. In section 4 you can choose to register by name or anonymously, or you can send the complaint anonymously. I would also suggest sending a copy to each member of the Board of Supervisors because it has to do with appropriation of funds. And because it could be considered a waste of County funds to hire consultants to do work employees could / should be doing, I would suggest sending your complaint to <a href="http://www.ocgrandjury.org/instructions.asp">the OC Grand Jury.</a>



I do hope you follow up, and that if you do, you let us know if you see any results.



Thanks for your comment.</blockquote>
Sorry for the late response, but I had to take time out to celebrate (or commiserate over) being a year older.



The cited instance is too old for current complaint, as the parties involved have probably move on or retired. I know the beanie baby lady was within a year of retirement when saw the abuse. But thank you for the suggestion.



On a slightly different angle, please also keep in mind that just because somebody is hard working does not mean that the job is a productive one. That's not the government employee's fault. But their job should be eliminated none-the-less. In the private sector, that kind of featherbedding is self limiting. Inefficient companies fail. (Or at least they should, barring government bail-outs.) But government agencies live forever. <a href="http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?area=home&subject=prsu&topic=col-nl-wm">Federal Wool and Mohair Program</a>
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247185981]I double dog dare you to start a farm subsidy thread.</blockquote>
I'm simply citing a commonly-used example of a program that has outlived it's usefulness, but remains on the books (at least through 2007 -- I haven't checked recent budgets to see if it's [finally] been killed off.)



For those not familiar with the program, wool was a 'strategic material' during WW-II and the Korean War. It was used to make uniforms for the troops. It is no longer a strategic material, having lost that status in 1960. Modern uniforms are not made of wool. But the program to support wool prices (as of 2007) was still active. This includes administrative costs and payment to wool producers for wool that could not be sold on the open market for a profit. <a href="http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/npr/library/reports/ag01.html">Info Here</a>
 
I don't know enough about farm subsidies. It would seem a reasonable idea to try to intervene to keep prices to farmers growing food reasonably stable, so the growers can make reasonable plans for future crops. I guess it's the "reasonable" part that is difficult. And I don't think there should be federal subsidies for non-food items, like tobacco. Are there still tobacco subsidies? I've often wondered if there are federal programs for wine grape growers, as well. Are there, No_Vas?
 
[quote author="centralcoastobserver" date=1247193930]I don't know enough about farm subsidies. It would seem a reasonable idea to try to intervene to keep prices to farmers growing food reasonably stable, so the growers can make reasonable plans for future crops. I guess it's the "reasonable" part that is difficult. And I don't think there should be federal subsidies for non-food items, like tobacco. Are there still tobacco subsidies? I've often wondered if there are federal programs for wine grape growers, as well. Are there, No_Vas?</blockquote>


Nope. Nor does a subsidy program exist for tree fruit, nuts, table grapes, or vegetables. Or alfalfa.



Why we subsidize tobacco is a mystery to me. I suspect we get more in tax revenues on cigarettes than the pittance the grower gets in subsidy payments, but that's not the point.
 
[quote author="centralcoastobserver" date=1247193930]I don't know enough about farm subsidies. It would seem a reasonable idea to try to intervene to keep prices to farmers growing food reasonably stable, so the growers can make reasonable plans for future crops. I guess it's the "reasonable" part that is difficult. And I don't think there should be federal subsidies for non-food items, like tobacco. Are there still tobacco subsidies? I've often wondered if there are federal programs for wine grape growers, as well. Are there, No_Vas?</blockquote>


Hmmm... I guess it would be reasonable for the government to decide what the right price is for a house. You know -- to keep the price stable and affordable. After all, houses are important! And then there's those silly doctors, that think they deserve to be paid more than a house painter. Their services are too important to let the prices get too high.



BTW, Cotton is the third-most costly subsidy program, behind corn and wheat.

<a href="http://farm.ewg.org/farm/summary.php">Summary Here</a>
 
<a href="http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2019315.html">http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2019315.html</a>



<blockquote><strong>Schwarzenegger's call to suspend Prop. 98 jolts Capitol</strong>Not once in the two decades since California's Proposition 98 school-funding formula became law have lawmakers bucked education groups to suspend it ? so Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's push to do so has rocked the Capitol.



Neither Democrats nor Republicans are rushing to embrace the idea, but with tax hikes off the table, there may be no easy alternative in bridging the state's $26.3 billion shortfall.



</blockquote>


It's a start - and if we can get rid of Prop 13, term limits, and the voters? desire to legislate via the ballot box, it'll be perfect!
 
<strong>Another 2,000 general fund jobs could be axed, administration says</strong>



<blockquote>This would be the third round of layoff warning notices issued by the administration, each time with the intent of eliminating jobs in the state's strapped general fund. In February, Schwarzenegger ordered 28,000 sent out to the least senior 10 percent of the state's employees. He ordered another 5,000 notices sent out in May.



. . .



Approximately 100,000 state workers are employed in general fund departments, <strong>the vast majority of them in the state's prison and parole department and in public health. </strong>Employee compensation makes up about 10 percent of the $85.8 billion general fund, an amount equal to roughly one-third of the current budget deficit.</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/the_state_worker/2009/07/another-2500-positions-to-be-a.html">Source.</a>



Graph, you may have missed your opportunity to buy Corona, but your odds of picking up Elk Grove or some of the other Sacto-area bedroom communities continues to look good.



On another note, I do have responses to NSR and GoIllini coming, I just want to take my time so that my replies are cogent and as respectful to them as their replies were to me. Silence should not imply agreement. ;-)
 
What was that again over benefitted public employees?



<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090715/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_wagoner">Ex GM CEO gets retirement package worth over $10M.</a>



I dunno, I'm thinking the private sector looks mighty fine.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1247212490]First was a 9% pay cut. The another 5%. Found out today we will get another 5% pay cut.</blockquote>


Man, that sucks. Almost 18% cumulative from original... Take heart though, I got a 100% cut, well technically around 80-something percent if you factor in UI, so that 18% could be much worse.
 
[quote author="ipoplaya" date=1247662979][quote author="awgee" date=1247212490]First was a 9% pay cut. The another 5%. Found out today we will get another 5% pay cut.</blockquote>


Man, that sucks. Almost 18% cumulative from original... Take heart though, I got a 100% cut, well technically around 80-something percent if you factor in UI, so that 18% could be much worse.</blockquote>
Wow, sorry to hear, IPO. I knew you were expecting it; didn't know it had happened.



[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1247660945]What was that again over benefitted public employees?



<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090715/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gm_wagoner">Ex GM CEO gets retirement package worth over $10M.</a>



I dunno, I'm thinking the private sector looks mighty fine.</blockquote>
When I get my million dollar retirement package I'll agree with you. Right now I would be happy with any retirement package that doesn't involve a 401k. Where I'm at the pay's not so great either.
 
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