John McCain: Myth vs. Reality

[irvinebullhousing]

bones - I didn't accuse you of lying.  You are playing the victim here.  I simply explained that from my perspective there were only 10 minutes between when I posted the link and your first post.  Later you said you read the article which implied you had read it before posting.

If you don't want to participate on TI, then nobody's forcing you.  We aren't going to start a "Where is bones?" thread.  LOL.

Nobody?s forcing me?  Ya no shit. I post bc I want to. I clicked on this thread bc I read TI based on recent posts and this one came up first and since it was new, I was like ok, i?ll engage since all the other political ones are too far gone for me to catch up. Clearly you wanted someone to echo chamber you on the article you posted and I didn?t do that. You can?t post something, say anyone can comment, then say if it?s not interesting to you then don?t comment. Instead maybe considering saying, read my shit - if you want to echo me. Please comment.

I already explained that I was starting this thread to stimulate discussion, but of your many posts on this thread maybe only one of them has anything to do with the topic.  I can only conclude that your objective was to derail things.  If not, here's your chance to prove me wrong.

Please post your opinions on John McCain's legacy.

Everyone of us have fears and weaknesses. Including John Mccain. I will tell you this, he served in public and his military background have my respect. Even, when he voted against items that I believe in. It is hard to hide your skeleton when you are a public figure. Just ask your idol "TRUMP".

And by the way, what have you done for your country lately?

You criticize the man when he not even yet bury. Your link to the article is another opinion of some one else. So I do respect Senator Mccain for his life long contribution to this country. There is an out pour support for his passing. Wait until Trump hit the ground. People will piss on his grave, if not let their dog poop on it. Your idol.

 

[Happiness]

Of course the Dems are sad to see McCain go. McCain has a long history of being a maverick (GOP who votes with the Dems) from 1999 when McCain was one of the few, and certainly the loudest, GOP advocate of Bill Clinton's misguided Kosovo War to 2017 when McCain alone broke GOP ranks and saved Obamacare.

But I agree with IHO, he's dead. No point criticizing him.

 

[Liar Loan]

I disagree that public figures who have died are immune from criticism.  Although if everybody simply refrained from criticizing him and nothing else, I might find that more agreeable.  What I find abhorrent is that his actions as a Senator are being praised as some kind of model to follow.

I think some of his greatest offences go way beyond just being a slimy politician:

1) In the 1980's he was a member of the Keating 5, which was a group of Senators that took lavish bribes from Charles Keating, the owner of a Savings & Loan.  All five of these Senators ended their careers in disgrace, except McCain who was probably the worst offender in terms of taking bribes in return for favors.  McCain directly lobbied the regulatory agencies to back off investigating Keating, which allowed him to continue operating for another couple of years until the S&L crisis finally took him out.  Who cares?... You may ask.  Well, the little old ladies whose life savings were plundered probably care.  The taxpayers bailed Keating out at a cost of around $3 billion so you and I should care about that.  McCain engaged in crony capitalism to enrich himself, which is sick when you consider how rich he already was via his wife's family.  Lots of others got screwed, but the "American hero" routine saved McCain's butt in the media.

2) In the 1990's John McCain played a big role in silencing the POW/MIA families that wanted further investigations of US soldiers that were left behind in Vietnam.  I believe every Republican in the house voted "Yes" to have this investigation conducted, but McCain played a key role in having it buried in the Senate.  In essence, he placed the desires of the Pentagon over the desires of the POW/MIA families that just wanted answers about their loved ones that were killed.  This was a complete betrayal of the American soldier on his part.

3) In the early 2000's McCain was one of the Republican's that beat the war drums the loudest.  He consistently repeated the lie (based on intelligence they knew was suspect) that Saddam Hussein was collaborating with Al Qaeda.  People forget how much of a role McCain played in spreading those early lies, but he was making the talk show rounds just like Dick Cheney telling the world that "we would be greeted as liberators" and that "the oil would pay for the war".  He also implied that it would be a quick and easy war, just like the first Persian Gulf war.  Fifteen years and $1 trillion later, the blood of 1 million dead Iraqi's cries up from their graves.

So anybody that says it's too early to talk about McCain or that it's unbecoming or whatever, should talk to some of the little old ladies he profited from, or the POW families he betrayed, or the 1 million dead Iraqi's that didn't ask McCain to rip their country limb from limb.

 

[nosuchreality]

You know what John McCain did?  He was part of the Gang of 14.

Look it up, maybe you can figure out why people think he should be emulated by our political leaders.

 

[Liar Loan]

You know what John McCain did?  He was part of the Gang of 14.

Look it up, maybe you can figure out why people think he should be emulated by our political leaders.

Why don't you post your opinion instead?  I took the time to explain myself, maybe you could extend the same courtesy.

 

[nosuchreality]

You know what John McCain did?  He was part of the Gang of 14.

Look it up, maybe you can figure out why people think he should be emulated by our political leaders.

Why don't you post your opinion instead?  I took the time to explain myself, maybe you could extend the same courtesy.

I did.  You seem to be mistaking a link to a character assassination piece in a pulp magazine as thoughtful discussion.

Fine I'll give you the 50,000 foot nutshell version of my opinion and why the Gang of 14 is important.  It's the last time our Government actually worked as the constitution intended instead of being hijacked by a bunch of reckless self-serving corrupt demagogues playing fuck you I got mine we can win thru mob rule.

 

[irvinebullhousing]

You know what John McCain did?  He was part of the Gang of 14.

Look it up, maybe you can figure out why people think he should be emulated by our political leaders.

Why don't you post your opinion instead?  I took the time to explain myself, maybe you could extend the same courtesy.

I did.  You seem to be mistaking a link to a character assassination piece in a pulp magazine as thoughtful discussion.

Fine I'll give you the 50,000 foot nutshell version of my opinion and why the Gang of 14 is important.  It's the last time our Government actually worked as the constitution intended instead of being hijacked by a bunch of reckless self-serving corrupt demagogues playing fuck you I got mine we can win thru mob rule.

Well said. Short and sweet!!!

 

[fortune11]

You know what John McCain did?  He was part of the Gang of 14.

Look it up, maybe you can figure out why people think he should be emulated by our political leaders.

Why don't you post your opinion instead?  I took the time to explain myself, maybe you could extend the same courtesy.

I did.  You seem to be mistaking a link to a character assassination piece in a pulp magazine as thoughtful discussion.

Fine I'll give you the 50,000 foot nutshell version of my opinion and why the Gang of 14 is important.  It's the last time our Government actually worked as the constitution intended instead of being hijacked by a bunch of reckless self-serving corrupt demagogues playing fuck you I got mine we can win thru mob rule.

Well said. Short and sweet!!!

Agree , couldn?t have said better .

Those ?pulp magazine ? hit pieces are what I call as throwaway links from an assortment of right wing cesspool sites

Just because a story is posted on the internet doesn?t mean it has the same level of depth and analysis behind it as say the Wall Street Journal or the economist or any other publication that actually has people who have some sense of professional shame and dignity regards to sourcing , data and accuracy .

The right bubble lives and thrives in this internet generated world of links and hit pieces mistaken for ?news? and so often used on this forum as a crutch and replacement for original thought .  It  is true for some on the hard left as well , but not to the same degree .

 

[Liar Loan]

I did.  You seem to be mistaking a link to a character assassination piece in a pulp magazine as thoughtful discussion.

Fine I'll give you the 50,000 foot nutshell version of my opinion and why the Gang of 14 is important.  It's the last time our Government actually worked as the constitution intended instead of being hijacked by a bunch of reckless self-serving corrupt demagogues playing fuck you I got mine we can win thru mob rule.

I started this thread with a link to Rolling Stone as a springboard for starting the discussion.  A few people like bones tried to derail things instead, but in another post I explained in detail some things I find deplorable about John McCain's time as a Senator.  His philosophy of spreading democracy through the barrel of a gun is what I find most abhorrent.

The Gang of 14 tried to preserve the filibuster which isn't a Constitutional construct, but something that was used heavily to prevent civil rights legislation from passing after the Civil War.  One of the members of the Gang of 14, Senator Robert Byrd, was a former KKK member and used the filibuster against he 1964 Civil Rights Act.  Is that a good example from the old days when "government worked"?

Filibusters were particularly useful to Southern senators who sought to block civil rights legislation, including anti-lynching legislation, until cloture was invoked after a 60 day filibuster against the Civil Right Act of 1964.

Source:  US Senate website (another throwaway pulp right-wing cesspool site)
https://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Filibuster_Cloture.htm

 

[Liar Loan]

Even though Bush Sr. was as establishment as establishment gets, I still view him favorably and view his presidency as being, mostly, a success.  His biggest mistake was breaking his "no new taxes" pledge and pissing off Republicans to the point of giving Ross Perot a foothold as a 3rd party candidate.  Many other moderate (R)'s and independents simply jumped ship and voted for Clinton, viewing him as an acceptable alternative who was more in touch with average people. 

However one remembers Bush Sr. it's undeniable that he tried to carry himself with dignity and class.  The final memory of John McCain will be his funeral devoted to Trump bashing, while the final memory of Bush will be something far more positive.

Bush family wants funeral that avoids anti-Trump sentiment: report

The Bush family has taken great care to assure that services being held to honor the life and legacy of former President George H.W. Bush do not become a political platform for anti-Trump swipes.

Such rhetoric was prominent in services for the late Sen. John McCain three months ago.


But with the Bush family patriarch's casket lying in State at the U.S. Capitol this week ahead of Wednesday services in Washington, efforts have been made to avoid a politicized funeral. The family already contacted the White House this past summer saying that President Trump would be welcome at H.W. Bush?s services -- and assured Trump that the focus would be on the 41st U.S. president?s life rather than their disagreements, The Washington Post reported, citing a former administration official.

"This will be about the celebration of the noble public service that George H.W. Bush gave. It?s not going to be about anybody else. I don?t think it?s going to be about Trump," a former Bush associate told Politico.

While Trump and the Bush family have had their differences, the White House has sought to honor the 41st president's legacy. Trump and first lady Melania Trump paid their respects at the Capitol Monday night.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bu...with-trump-former-bush-sr-staffer-says-report

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Even though Bush Sr. was as establishment as establishment gets, I still view him favorably and view his presidency as being, mostly, a success.  His biggest mistake was breaking his "no new taxes" pledge and pissing off Republicans to the point of giving Ross Perot a foothold as a 3rd party candidate.  Many other moderate (R)'s and independents simply jumped ship and voted for Clinton, viewing him as an acceptable alternative who was more in touch with average people. 

However one remembers Bush Sr. it's undeniable that he tried to carry himself with dignity and class.  The final memory of John McCain will be his funeral devoted to Trump bashing, while the final memory of Bush will be something far more positive.

Bush family wants funeral that avoids anti-Trump sentiment: report

The Bush family has taken great care to assure that services being held to honor the life and legacy of former President George H.W. Bush do not become a political platform for anti-Trump swipes.

Such rhetoric was prominent in services for the late Sen. John McCain three months ago.


But with the Bush family patriarch's casket lying in State at the U.S. Capitol this week ahead of Wednesday services in Washington, efforts have been made to avoid a politicized funeral. The family already contacted the White House this past summer saying that President Trump would be welcome at H.W. Bush?s services -- and assured Trump that the focus would be on the 41st U.S. president?s life rather than their disagreements, The Washington Post reported, citing a former administration official.

"This will be about the celebration of the noble public service that George H.W. Bush gave. It?s not going to be about anybody else. I don?t think it?s going to be about Trump," a former Bush associate told Politico.

While Trump and the Bush family have had their differences, the White House has sought to honor the 41st president's legacy. Trump and first lady Melania Trump paid their respects at the Capitol Monday night.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bu...with-trump-former-bush-sr-staffer-says-report

I don't think either approach is "wrong".  Bush Sr. has been away from the spotlight for a long time while McCain was a sitting Senator before his cancer diagnosis.  Bush could be more reconcilatory while McCain may have considered it his patriotic duty to take Trump down.

Question is why you don't have the same expectations for Trump?

 

[Liar Loan]

Question is why you don't have the same expectations for Trump?

Trump hasn't died yet.  I assume his funeral will be the greatest of any former President though.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Question is why you don't have the same expectations for Trump?

Trump hasn't died yet.  I assume his funeral will be the greatest of any former President though.

He cannot show respect, dignity, and class before he dies?

 

[eyephone]

I was waiting for Liar to leave an unfavorable comment for  George HW Bush. It doesn?t surprise me that his comments comes during the nation mourning of President 41.

 

[Liar Loan]

Question is why you don't have the same expectations for Trump?

Trump hasn't died yet.  I assume his funeral will be the greatest of any former President though.

He cannot show respect, dignity, and class before he dies?

Trump was elected to be a fighter.  He's simply carrying out the mandate he was given by the American people.  The establishment hadn't been doing their job, so he was sent in to clean house and annoy them for four years.

He wouldn't have been a good President in 1989 when we needed somebody to manage the downfall of Communism.  Bush played that role exceptionally well and his conciliatory tone was exactly what was needed at the time.

 

[Liar Loan]

I was waiting for Liar to leave an unfavorable comment for  George HW Bush. It doesn?t surprise me that his comments comes during the nation mourning of President 41.

Fail

 

[irvinebullhousing]

Question is why you don't have the same expectations for Trump?

Trump hasn't died yet.  I assume his funeral will be the greatest of any former President though.

WTF, the greatest of cons and lies?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Question is why you don't have the same expectations for Trump?

Trump hasn't died yet.  I assume his funeral will be the greatest of any former President though.

He cannot show respect, dignity, and class before he dies?

Trump was elected to be a fighter.  He's simply carrying out the mandate he was given by the American people.  The establishment hadn't been doing their job, so he was sent in to clean house and annoy them for four years.

He wouldn't have been a good President in 1989 when we needed somebody to manage the downfall of Communism.  Bush played that role exceptionally well and his conciliatory tone was exactly what was needed at the time.

Again...being a fighter doesn't mean you cannot be classy or respectful.  I do not think the country elected Trump to speak ill of the sick or dead.

Also...American people did not elect Trump.  The Electoral College did.

 

[Liar Loan]

Again...being a fighter doesn't mean you cannot be classy or respectful.  I do not think the country elected Trump to speak ill of the sick or dead.

You must be referring to McCain because Bush Sr. has received every honor from Trump.  The thing with McCain is he hit Trump first and then tried to play the "war hero" card when Trump hit him back.  It was a cowardly play by McCain that backfired big time and only cemented in the minds of every decent, red-blooded American that Trump is the fighter we need to take on the duplicitous establishment.

Also...American people did not elect Trump.  The Electoral College did.

Every President is elected that way.

 

[eyephone]

I was waiting for Liar to leave an unfavorable comment for  George HW Bush. It doesn?t surprise me that his comments comes during the nation mourning of President 41.

Fail

I failed? I think you did by not honoring people that served the United States.