Irvine police conspiracy?

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
And while I'm at it... I might as well post some more statistics that are based on FBI numbers and not hearsay:
http://www.oclnn.com/orange-county/...fest-city-santa-ana-leads-oc-in-violent-crime

From the article:
OClnn.com said:
The preliminary crime data for 2009 released Monday by the FBI shows that Irvine last year experienced just 0.7 violent crimes ? murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault ? per 1,000 residents. New York City, by comparison, had 5.5 violent crimes per 1,000 residents, and Los Angeles had 5.8.
[...]
Santa Ana was the Orange County city with the most violent crime last year, with 5.1 incidents per 1,000 residents reported.

Violent crime rates for other large OC cities in 2009 were as follows:

    * Anaheim, 3.5 incidents per 1,000
    * Costa Mesa, 2.8 incidents per 1,000
    * Fullerton, 4.0 incidents per 1,000
    * Garden Grove, 3.3 incidents per 1,000
    * Huntington Beach, 1.9 incidents per 1,000
    * Orange, 1.2 incidents per 1,000
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Conspiracy or not... I doubt even the iPhone-buying IPD can cover up enough to go from 5.1 to 0.7.

EDIT: Spelling.
 
IHO,

I totally love you man, but this is totally lame. You revere BK and you want to interact with him, despite the fact that he disses your beloved Irvine. So here you are over in your "Irvine is Eden" place trying to have an argument about something you think isn't correct, but you can't have that dialogue amongst the "Jim Jones followers of Irvine is heaven" crowd. Seriously, be the "big" man that you are and have the real debate you are seeking.
 
Hello steppingup,

Glad to see you post here.  Since you posted here, I won't go to the other site and respond.  I just want to say something about TI.  I am not sure it's just joking or poking fun at the posters here.  But I am sure the posters here or TI don't represent "Irvine is Eden" or "Irvine is heaven".  The topics here are not as general as OCR, and as a Irvinite, I recognize the short comings as well.  As you can see, I poke fun at myself all the time.  Believe me, the posters here are not as blind as they are portrait on the other site.  A lot of times, words are lost in translation in a post.  So perhaps what I am saying here aren't the real "perception" of TI and TI posters from the people on the other site.

Edit: Added "don't" in the 2nd sentence, oops.
 
Good gawd you people drive me fricking crazy. Not everyone who posts here thinks Irvine is heaven. Not everyone here wants to live in Woodbury. I for one would love to have interesting debates about lots of different topics that don't have anything to do with Irvine. I would do it on OCR, but I really can't stand most of you. Except for Lane, who's still so dreamy. And RC.   

ETA: And fe9000. You are super cool.

 
I think it would be easier for BK to come over here... but I think he's scared since he won't have his backup*.

*I'm exaggerating of course in order to raise BK's blood pressure.

And trace... easy on the "can't stand most of you"... many of the OCR posters are quite pleasant and reasonable... don't let a few bad apples yada yada yada.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
And trace... easy on the "can't stand most of you"... many of the OCR posters are quite pleasant and reasonable... don't let a few bad apples yada yada yada.
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See... PatStar is a perfect example of what I was talking about.

He's such a bad apple!  :P
 
Patrick Star said:
I think you are taking this all too seriously, trace.  It's the internet.  A lot of people just having fun needling others.  For instance, 90% of what I post here is utter BS just for entertainment value.  Only a couple of times has anyone really pissed ole CK off.  You may not be aware of it, but I live and work in Irvine --- and as anyone on this board or that board who knows me personally (and its several) --- you won't find a bigger "Irvine" guy than me.  I love the city, and spend most of my life here.  From Monday - Friday I rarely leave the city limits.  We spend all our money here, contribute to and particpate in the schools, engage in the politics --- the whole nine.  But that does not mean I don't like to have a little fun with it.  That's why I love FE. He's a great guy.  He endured my making fun of motorcourts all along, and stuck around.  I've told him to his face that I actually like the Montecito house --- and further that I completely understand his decision to buy a new home, after also experiencing his same frustration of shopping for a resale home in Irvine.  Now, I won't make the same decision to purchase in the 2010 Collection --- so he and I don't think totally alike.  But we have both learned something from each other along the way.

Don't get so frustrated.  Take it for what it is.  Entertainment with some knowledge spinkled in here and there. But if you find yourself getting to the point of "can't stand most people", then maybe this internet discussion board thing isn't for you.
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Pat Star, you crack me up man.  Oh about Montecito? you said it, I didn't!!  :-)
 
Maybe it was a gypsy.

I've seen them around in quite a few shopping centers in Irvine. It's usually a younger lady with a baby/toddler asking for money.

Funny story... a friend of ours ran into one and took her shopping for groceries. She wanted all the name brand stuff and when her kid wanted something unhealthy, the person refused, to which the kid started crying and making a scene in the store. Talk about ungrateful.

P.S. This was hearsay too so you can either choose to believe my story or not.
 
Patrick Star said:
traceimage said:
Good gawd you people drive me fricking crazy. Not everyone who posts here thinks Irvine is heaven. Not everyone here wants to live in Woodbury. I for one would love to have interesting debates about lots of different topics that don't have anything to do with Irvine. I would do it on OCR, but I really can't stand most of you. Except for Lane, who's still so dreamy. And RC.   

ETA: And fe9000. You are super cool.
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I think you are taking this all too seriously, trace.  It's the internet.  A lot of people just having fun needling others.  For instance, 90% of what I post here is utter BS just for entertainment value.  Only a couple of times has anyone really pissed ole CK off.  You may not be aware of it, but I live and work in Irvine --- and as anyone on this board or that board who knows me personally (and its several) --- you won't find a bigger "Irvine" guy than me.  I love the city, and spend most of my life here.  From Monday - Friday I rarely leave the city limits.  We spend all our money here, contribute to and particpate in the schools, engage in the politics --- the whole nine.  But that does not mean I don't like to have a little fun with it.  That's why I love FE. He's a great guy.  He endured my making fun of motorcourts all along, and stuck around.  I've told him to his face that I actually like the Montecito house --- and further that I completely understand his decision to buy a new home, after also experiencing his same frustration of shopping for a resale home in Irvine.  Now, I won't make the same decision to purchase in the 2010 Collection --- so he and I don't think totally alike.  But we have both learned something from each other along the way.

Don't get so frustrated.  Take it for what it is.  Entertainment with some knowledge spinkled in here and there. But if you find yourself getting to the point of "can't stand most people", then maybe this internet discussion board thing isn't for you.
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It's not the internet discussion board thing. I've posted on forums before - heck, I was even a moderator of another forum - and I never had any problems with taking anything too seriously before.

I think maybe you can understand where I'm coming from. I think you've had some moments when you've had to stop posting because things got too frustrating. I think it's easier for you lately because now that you may be moving out of Irvine, all the cool kids like you more. Unless you're not who I think you used to be; if not, then just disregard all this, because I sound like a crazy person.

And yes, it's unfortunate, but some of the OCR people really do annoy the crap out of me, because they are hypocritical. They claim to have open minds, but just because I live in Irvine, and for no other reason, people have assumed I am a materialistic sheeple who has no interest in anything remotely cultural. (And that really couldn't be further from the truth.) Someone even accused me of behaving exactly like his ex-wife, which is so incredibly odd to me because...duh, this is an internet forum. And all this stuff about everyone at TI worshiping Irvine annoys me as well because while I live in Irvine, I think it's just a city, no better or worse than any other city. I try not to judge people by where they live, but some people at OCR do exactly that, and seem to be proud of it.

And for the record, going back to the topic at hand, I question the honesty and genuineness of the supposed POLICE OFFICER, not Grace or BK.

I'm all for laughing at myself. Make fun of me for watching "The Bachelorette," or for dressing like a schlub, or for being a big dorky nerd, I'll own it all! But it's the incorrect assumptions that really annoy me. So when step (who I actually always liked back in the IHB days) comes here and calls us the "Jim Jones followers of Irvine is heaven crowd," that just irks me to no end.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go call my therapist now. I'm sending y'all the bill. (Kidding. I have no therapist, although my husband thinks I need one for spending way too much time getting offended by a silly internet forum.)
 
traceimage said:
And yes, it's unfortunate, but some of the OCR people really do annoy the crap out of me, because they are hypocritical. They claim to have open minds, but just because I live in Irvine, and for no other reason, people have assumed I am a materialistic sheeple who has no interest in anything remotely cultural. (And that really couldn't be further from the truth.)
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I totally understand this sentiment. My first days there were spent arguing over my personal preference vs. theirs. I can accept their opinions and viewpoints as long as they have the same tolerance for mine and it took some time but I think they understand that now. It's maybe only a few (or one) person who continues to push their anti-Irvine agenda and I do wish some people over there would voice the other side more (and some do) but because no one wants to challenge the most "thanked" members... it doesn't happen often (which is sheeple like in its own way).

But I digress... like I said... the forums/communitieis aren't about just one person... OCR has a great community, smart people and very informative content.... it just has a much broader swath than TI. Ever since the IHB forums I've always wondered why people take the stance of "All you guys talk about is Irvine"... uh Irvine Housing Blog... and TalkIrvine. So whenever anyone bags on Irvine over there (and why not on Aliso Viejo, Tustin Ranch, Newport Beach, Coto De Caza or MIssion Viejo) it actually makes me think they are jealous of THE GREATEST CITY IN ORANGE COUNTY.

Heh... that was a 26inIrvine caps manuever and while trace may think Irvine is just a city and better than no other.... personally... based on what I like and my lifestyle... Irvine is the top choice for me. And yes, PatStar, I can laugh at the things peculiar to Irvine living... but I also don't make a point of going around insulting a large group of people's cities/lives as frequently as someone does.

For instance (and back on topic), I read tons of crimes in the paper about other cities but I don't go around mentioning it every chance I get.
 
And since I've read a few remarks and received some PMs on the matter... there is NO beef whatsoever between me and OCR or me and BK.

I have a great amount of respect for BK and as I've stated many times before, OCR is a great place if you're interested in things other than Irvine. I read that site quite a bit and like any other blog or website, if I read something that I have a strong opinion about, I will post it here.

I just think the BK-centric ones get more traction because it's BK, I have other links to Lane's Shadow Inventory thread, to Coltrane's LeBron's breakdown... etc etc. I find it interesting that now I'm actively linking to OCR content people are claiming I am being unfair, not being nice or stealing content. It's simple... I see stuff there that interests me, I post and comment on it here. People have done that forever and why there is so much scrutiny about it is beyond me.

And one more time... NO ONE is calling BK or his wife a liar... the doubt is on the supposed police officer and his story. But... I do want to reiterate that IPD does not "to this day" classify the homicide behind the Trabuco Grove center as a suicide. In that regard, BK is TOTALLY WRONG and needs to admit that.
 
So BK has responded over at OCR where his sheeple will not disagree with him (well... one did but BK didn't get it) and although he begrudgingly admits his disinformation, his attempts to further taint the Irvine Police Department are slightly egregrious:
http://www.ocreader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9855#p9855

SmokingGunBK said:
This one is for IHO.

City of Irvine after their press release to the LA Times regarding the icicle gun incident could possibly be self inflicted and then IPD later posted this in the internal police bulletin. I did not know this until he posted this link.

http://www.ci.irvine.ca.us/civica/press/display.asp?layout=1&Entry=969

The icicle gun incident was a homicide. I guess it was too big of an elephant to hide under the rug.

Now that I know this bulletin I was curious to read about my remaining suspicions of other cold cases. Nada was posted.
I did however found 5 other entries within the last year 5/24. 5/14, 1/27, 12/21, 6/1 about the same thing. How many ways can this city talk about the same subject? At the bottom of other bulletins this subject also shows up! Could there be another way to milk this even more?
http://www.ci.irvine.ca.us/ipd/press_releases/default.asp

So I will pick on the rest of the cases full of reasonable doubts such as the man who fell off the 5th level of a parking structure, another man fell off a 5th floor balcony and another man off the roof top of the Marriott Hotel, and the UCI international student died with a bag over his head. None of these according to John Hare were foul play and all were suicides. These are all in the grey area without obvious bullet wounds so they are the much smaller "elephants" that could be easily swept under the rug. I feel sorry for the victims' families that they will never see justice. The quick "no foul play" determination compromised the evidence collection process.

This icicle gun case is closed I will not post conspiracy again until the next suicide.

I know I don't have to wait very long for that.
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Now maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way but this is my take:

1. I didn't know BK is a forensics expert. I haven't watched CSI in quite a long time so unless he is Laurence Fishburne, I'm not sure he's up on correct crime scene protocol to determine what type of information should or should not be released.
2. Every police department in every city will minimize public information in order to protect their investigation unless otherwise necessary.
3. The initial report is always based on the primary findings, while it may later be found to be something else, that information may or may not be released depending on the authority in charge's discretion. Show me a police department that releases every single bit of information about an ongoing crime investigation. Usually details are undisclosed for a variety of reasons... in some cases to give perpetrators a false sense of security, in others to allow legal proceedings to be successful since public disclosure may harm a case.
4. Unless you find a murder weapon, a witness to someone pushing someone off a building or any other signs of foul play, the initial report should be suicide... I don't see the need to disclose it any other way.
5. In a previous post, BK claimed that IPD site was an "internal" site. It is not, it is a public site and googled quite easily. It seems BK just prefers to find the links that support his theories which is why he thinks the way he does.
6. I assume BK has been to all these crime scenes, talked to witnesses and has studied all the forensic evidence to support his notion that these were not suicides. I hope he posts on OCR his detailed findings since obviously he thinks he has a better methodology than the Irvine Police Department.

And I am amazed that no one else over there other than Coltrane realizes that claims of conspiracy need more evidence than what BK is saying. Since neither BK or I are police officers, detectives or crime scene investigators... my theory is just as good as his. I guess Lane believes him because he thanks him for his JFK posts.

Any city would err on the side of caution unless the initial evidence says otherwise. To bring more light to the UCI student's death... he left his phone off and his wallet in his room... indicative of someone who would not want to be contacted and possibly contemplating suicide. Although his friends and family state that he did not seem suicidal, who really does? I can google tons of cases of proven suicides where the person's closest family and friends had no idea that person was suicidal. It happens.

And let me temper this, I AM suspicious of these balcony/rooftop jumpings also... but that is a far "leap" to a police department-wide cover-up on violent crimes just so Irvine can go up in FBI rankings... after all BK said it himself:
BKSecondShooter said:
Dear Mr. Hare: there is no need to conceal the true nature of a crime. irvine would still be among the top 10 safest cities. A few murders will not hurt the statistics. I forgot bad press can hurt selling houses so I see.
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Maybe BK was one of those Lone Gunmen guys on X-Files.
 
And BK digs his hole even deeper:
http://www.ocreader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9892#p9892

DetectiveBK said:
IHO's explaination of the dead student leaving his cell phone and wallet behind was a suicide. First If i want to die then having a cell phone and a wallet does not really matter. I would not be able to take the call when I am dead and I would want to be identified with a wallet to let the world know that I took my own life. Suicide is an emotional despair act and it is extremely important for an individual to let his peers know of his intention.
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Whoah. I said "possibly". Please don't misrepresent my words. I didn't say it WAS a suicide but it seems like you are claiming it WAS a murder... I'm just saying that in some cases of suicide, there does exist previous examples where the person does not want to be contacted.

But I guess you are also an expert on Suicide Psychology.
SherlockBK said:
Almost all foul play involved the victims leaving wallet, purse and keys behind at the house.
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Really? So they know they are going to be murdered ahead of time and leave that stuff at home? Or the person who offed them, would risk going back to the place they live to put their personal items back to create suspicion of a murder (since you claim that as a modus operandi for foul play). "Almost all"? Did that guy who was killed behind Trabuco Grove leave his stuff at home? I think some of those jumping victims had their ID and personal belongings on them... so by your logic they were suicides right?
BKMurderExpert said:
A murder is likely because a cell phone one can track the location of the body immediately and the routh taken. The murderer wanted at least a few days to get away and time for evidence to erode at the crime scene. The decomposed body was found days later indeed. i would also mandate my victim to take his wallet out too so it becomes much harder and longer to determine his identity.

When it comes to observation and perception I think I am more correct than wrong.
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So it's not possible at all for someone to commit suicide in a deserted area and to be found days later? I would think that suicide is a more of a solitary act so usually people can accomplish it without others knowing... or else they would not die.

I didn't realize you are such an expert on how to murder people too. Maybe you ARE Laurence Fishburne... although the whole "more correct than wrong" credo smacks of David Caruso.

Maybe Irvine PD should contact you since you have all the answers. Can you try calling them and telling them that you've solved all their cold cases? And while you're at it, you may want to contact Santa Ana PD because all those homicide victims I read about have their wallet, cell phones and IDs on them so they are really suicides and SAPD is just trying to cover it up.
 
Well... unlike BK, I post his actual responses so that the conversation is easier to follow.

OCR is pretty neutral actually... only a few (or one) is anti-Irvine/TalkIrvine. Which is absolutely fine... as long as they can handle counterpoints from wherever it comes from.

BTW: I'm not used to just "Blueberry East"  anymore... how about "Blueberry East hates BP Oil" or something current like that?

 
Blueberry East said:
You guys should really argue about this on the same site.

What we need is a third site 'Talk OC' that should be set up by someone neutral, so both of you can join.

Paging Patrick Star/jumpcut/fe9000.
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Did I hear my name?  I am no creator, blogger or writer.
 
Blueberry East loves the 92618 said:
BTW: I wanted to change my screen name to 'Blueberry East supports the health care reform' but that was over the limit of characters.
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Ooooo... that would be nice hot button topic (like on the old IHB).

I am against it for many reasons... mainly because I don't think taxpayers should carry the burden of healthcare... or bank/homeowner bailouts.
 
BKHolmes said:
I may need to clarify pertaining to victims disappearance from home but personal belonging such as wallet, keys, handbag and phones found left at home are likely were result of foul play not the way I states earlier all foul play involved victims leaving their personal items behind at home.
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I was just using your hyperbole against you. I know what you mean but I don't think it's proven either way in most cases what that means.

When people go jogging they tend to leave those things at home. When people are "moidered", personal evidence is usually destroyed because it was on their person and they wouldn't return it. If someone was forcibly taken from their home, those items could be left behind but the phone would be on not off (why a murderer would take time to turn off the phone when they are probably in a hurry is beyond me). There are many circumstances behind why things are left, missing or what have you... but to draw a conclusion of foul play immediately off of just that isn't how crimes are solved.

The fact that he left those items doesn't prove or disprove foul play, because it was a bag over his head does not either. I've read comments in the Register where people say you can't commit suicide in that manner but people have (reminds me of the movie "House of the Sand and Fox").

If you want to believe it is a cover-up, your "perception" will lead you to that conclusion... not your "experience".
 
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