Interior Paint DIY vs Hiring a Pro?
- Thread starter ZeroLot
- Start date
ZeroLot,
Excellent review of the various paint contractors! Would you happen to have the phone numbers of these painters, particularly Certa Pro and Xenak painting. Looks like Certa Pro is a franchise with multiple locations. I assume you are using the Irvine one. Thanks for such a helpful post.
LogiK
Excellent review of the various paint contractors! Would you happen to have the phone numbers of these painters, particularly Certa Pro and Xenak painting. Looks like Certa Pro is a franchise with multiple locations. I assume you are using the Irvine one. Thanks for such a helpful post.
LogiK
ZeroLot
New member
Logik said:
Thanks LogiK.
I'll PM you on the side with some extra info.Certa Pro is 949-230-3349
Xenak is (949) 235-5766 - Martha speaks with a heavy French accent (or at least it sounds French) so she is a bit difficult to understand over the phone. It's much easier speaking to her in person.
If you are looking for high quality non-VOC paint, you should look into Benjamin Moore Natura paint. Benjamin Moore is the paint of choice for interior designers. Not only they offer low-VOC paint and non-VOC paint, their quality and color palette are just superior then others. If you check out houzz.com, almost all of their projects using Benjamin Moore paint. They are also highly rate by Consumer Report, but they are really expensive. Benjamin Moore paint cost around $60/gal and up. BEHR's range from $30/gal to $45/gal, Sherwin-Williams and others are in the $20s range.
Don't get too hung up on non-VOC paints. 99% of all building we encounter every day uses paint contain VOC. It's more of a problem during paint drying process, highest amount of VOC get releases into air as paint get dry. Once the paint is complete dry, extremely low amount of VOC are been released. I would think it is more of a problem for painters since they are going to inhale most of these VOC fume while painting. I think the chemical in the new furniture are more of a concern than VOC in paint.
A lot of painters like to use cheaper paint and they like them not because they are really good but because they are cheap. A good quality pain goes a long way. Ask your painter to use other brand of paint if possible, even if it will cost a little more I think it's worth it.
One good paint brand I would recommend is BEHR premium although it is not non-VOC. Like ZeroLot mentioned, BEHR is highly rated by Consumer Report and it's overall rating only slightly below Benjamin Moore but at half of its price.
In case you decided to DIY, you can ask The Home Depot to mix any of Benjamin Moore's paint color with BEHR premium paint. Since Benjamin Moore offer better color and BEHR offer better value, this is one solution to combine the best of both brand. Home Depot have all the Benjamin Moore's paint color and formula in their computer. Just select any Benjamin Moore paint color you like and ask them to mixed it (using BEHR's paint) for you. If you are not sure about the paint color, you can always buy a small 8oz sample first and try it out.
Don't get too hung up on non-VOC paints. 99% of all building we encounter every day uses paint contain VOC. It's more of a problem during paint drying process, highest amount of VOC get releases into air as paint get dry. Once the paint is complete dry, extremely low amount of VOC are been released. I would think it is more of a problem for painters since they are going to inhale most of these VOC fume while painting. I think the chemical in the new furniture are more of a concern than VOC in paint.
A lot of painters like to use cheaper paint and they like them not because they are really good but because they are cheap. A good quality pain goes a long way. Ask your painter to use other brand of paint if possible, even if it will cost a little more I think it's worth it.
One good paint brand I would recommend is BEHR premium although it is not non-VOC. Like ZeroLot mentioned, BEHR is highly rated by Consumer Report and it's overall rating only slightly below Benjamin Moore but at half of its price.
In case you decided to DIY, you can ask The Home Depot to mix any of Benjamin Moore's paint color with BEHR premium paint. Since Benjamin Moore offer better color and BEHR offer better value, this is one solution to combine the best of both brand. Home Depot have all the Benjamin Moore's paint color and formula in their computer. Just select any Benjamin Moore paint color you like and ask them to mixed it (using BEHR's paint) for you. If you are not sure about the paint color, you can always buy a small 8oz sample first and try it out.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
@Inc:
This is the first time I hear someone describe Dunn Edwards as "cheap" paint. I always thought they were higher quality paint.
This is the first time I hear someone describe Dunn Edwards as "cheap" paint. I always thought they were higher quality paint.
ZeroLot
New member
Based on my online research and consumer reports Benjamin Moore paint is very nice and VERY premium. But the price range is around $60 to $65 a gallon. Benjamin Moore paint is so premium you may only need one coat to get the desired look ... while other brands require at least 2 coats of paint. In the end you might break even since you are using less paint with Ben Moore.
I've never thought about mixing Benjamin Moore with Behr Premium. That's an ingenious idea and a science experiment I'll save for another day
Here's a quick link to the top 3 Paint rated by Consumer Reports for 2013.
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/consumer-reports-picks-for-best-interior-paints-2013-188298
You get a much more detailed review if you sign up for a Consumer Report subscription ... which Mr. Zerolot did.
I've never thought about mixing Benjamin Moore with Behr Premium. That's an ingenious idea and a science experiment I'll save for another day
Here's a quick link to the top 3 Paint rated by Consumer Reports for 2013.
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/consumer-reports-picks-for-best-interior-paints-2013-188298
You get a much more detailed review if you sign up for a Consumer Report subscription ... which Mr. Zerolot did.
ZeroLot
New member
lnc said:
@Inc. - The no-VOC Sherwin Williams paint cost $60 to $65 a gallon too. I don't think that falls in the cheap range either.
Many painters have told me that most paint nowadays are VERY low on VOC anyway. However parents with small kids tend to be more cautious and most will fork over the extra cash to paint their kids room with no-VOC to be safe. Babies and toddlers are the MOST sensitive to fumes. It's a better be safe than sorry because no parents want their kids to end up with asthma or other breathing problems.
Low-VOC doesn't effect adults as much, unless we are painting the house.
ZeroLot said:Based on my online research and consumer reports Benjamin Moore paint is very nice and VERY premium. But the price range is around $60 to $65 a gallon. Benjamin Moore paint is so premium you may only need one coat to get the desired look ... while other brands require at least 2 coats of paint. In the end you might break even since you are using less paint with Ben Moore.
I've never thought about mixing Benjamin Moore with Behr Premium. That's an ingenious idea and a science experiment I'll save for another day
We are not mixing Behr's paint with Benjamin Moore's paint. I'm suggesting using Behr premium paint but with one of Benjamin Moore's color. Actually you can do this with other brand also. Just pick the color and paint store will mix that color for you. I hope I didn't not confuse anyone here.
In the previous home I used Benjamin Moore paint and in the new home I use Behr. I can't tell the difference in quality between them but it cost a lot more to paint the house with Benjamin Moore.
I did paint some rooms in the previous home myself with Benjamin Moore paint and you do need more than one coat to achieve the proper finish.
ZeroLot
New member
lnc said:
Oh I get it. Let me revise for you.
"I'm suggesting
I love color-matching! I picked Valspar colors and Sherwin Williams will color match it with one of their no-VOC paint.
lnc said:
Did you do full prep before painting? Like washing, sanding, prime, etc. before the Ben Moore paint? I learned that a GOOD prepping of the wall before hand will help save on paint as the surface of the wall will be ready to absorb the paint better.
But that's just what I've been told. I have no experience nor verification as I am not a good painter myself. I just know when I'm paying my $$$ to the pros, that's what they say they will do to my walls.
If I was painting, I would have just grabbed a paint brush and painted right over the Vista White by IP. The last time I painted a wall, I didn't even know what priming was, but the paint still worked ... after 2 coats.
ZeroLot
New member
After Inc's post, I decided to do a bit of digging into Sherwin Williams paint. It turns out that Consumer Reports does not have a high opinion of them ... no matter if it's their Duration line, Harmony Line, ProMar line .... etc.
I did more google research and it seems even within the ProMar line, such as ProMar 200, ProMar 400, and ProMar 700 it makes a big difference.
http://interior-paint-ideas.com/sherwin-williams-promar-400-and-700-review/
What's even more shocking is that as low as Sherwin Williams paint is on Consumer Report, at least it's still ranked in their top 25... I can't find Dunn Edwards anywhere ... UPDATE Dunn Edwards paint is not rated by CR.
This will change my final decision.
I was going to meet up with CertaPro tomorrow to sign but something came up and he is traveling this week. I will vet a couple more painters to see what they have to say.
UPDATE: Am meeting up with another painter and talk with him. But most online painters forums agree that most important part of painting is the prep work to the wall. The paint itself is all pretty much the same except for the mildew resisting and odor eliminating kind and other little bells and whistles.
I did more google research and it seems even within the ProMar line, such as ProMar 200, ProMar 400, and ProMar 700 it makes a big difference.
http://interior-paint-ideas.com/sherwin-williams-promar-400-and-700-review/
What's even more shocking is that as low as Sherwin Williams paint is on Consumer Report, at least it's still ranked in their top 25
This will change my final decision.
I was going to meet up with CertaPro tomorrow to sign but something came up and he is traveling this week. I will vet a couple more painters to see what they have to say.
UPDATE: Am meeting up with another painter and talk with him. But most online painters forums agree that most important part of painting is the prep work to the wall. The paint itself is all pretty much the same except for the mildew resisting and odor eliminating kind and other little bells and whistles.
irvinehomeowner
Well-known member
As gaogi said, I don't think you have to worry too much about paint prep with a new build.
I think this one might be over-vetted by Zerolot, there isn't much that can go wrong with paint once it's on. Just stuff like missed spots or bad lines/corners but at least for interiors, paint on the wall tends to stay on the wall.
So I just go for best price, best service... not too worried about paint brand (although I can understand the no-VOC part). I believe Dunn Edwards does have zero VOC paint, the EcoShield and Enso line but I don't know how much more that costs.
Certa sounds expensive, how were they compared to everyone else pricewise?
I think this one might be over-vetted by Zerolot, there isn't much that can go wrong with paint once it's on. Just stuff like missed spots or bad lines/corners but at least for interiors, paint on the wall tends to stay on the wall.
So I just go for best price, best service... not too worried about paint brand (although I can understand the no-VOC part). I believe Dunn Edwards does have zero VOC paint, the EcoShield and Enso line but I don't know how much more that costs.
Certa sounds expensive, how were they compared to everyone else pricewise?
qwerty
Well-known member
so i read up on VOCs last night and whats the point of just doing the kids room with non-voc paint? they spend a decent amount of time in the rest of the house. it seems you go all in and do the entire house with non-voc paints otherwise you are wasting your money. also, you cant keep the low VOCs from getting into the air in your kids room anyway right? kind of like the smoking/non smoking sections. am i missing something?
qwerty
Well-known member
i also read the prop 65 thing for furniture last night. it seems like it is just applied to the foam inside the furniture as a fire retardant. as long as the foam was covered with whatever the material is (cloth, leather, etc) its seems to be fine. shit, breathing in the air off the freeway from my commute will probably kill me way before any prop 65 chemical does. not too mention the prop 65 warnings are pretty much everywhere (restaurants, workplaces, etc).
ZeroLot
New member
irvinehomeowner said:
Had I known I'd be vetting paint + painters I wouldn't have gone so overboard.
I should have vetted my paint first before vetting a painter. That would have cut my work in half.
Certa is $500 to $700 over my other estimates. A good chunk. I'll revise my review to simplify things.
I do appreciate everyone's input. I would not have been so well informed otherwise.
ZeroLot
New member
Lesson learned: Vet Paint First before Vetting Painter
Based on everyone's comments + consumer reports + painters forums, here's my summary of the popular paints brands:
Benjamin Moore - durable, paints easily, great pigmentation, but expensive, highly rated by Consumer Reports and MANY painters and TI peeps.
Dunn Edwards - contractor grade paint, middle of the road, West Coast only, not rated by Consumer Reports. Majority of the painters I vetted prefers Dunn Edwards.
Sherwin Williams - contractor grade paint, middle of the road, can be as low as $17/gallon to $70/gallon, nationwide brand, ranks in the lower part of the Consumer Report scale.
Behr - highly rated by Consumer Report but painters have complained it's quite plasticy. Very durable paint once it sticks.
====
Low-VOC vs Zero-VOC
Just a matter of personal preference. Most paints are water-based now so it really makes no difference. Zero-VOC paint is more difficult to work with because it's mostly liquid. Requires a contractor that can take the time to really paint with it to make the colors even and vibrant.
If you are using an oil-based paint ... then zero-VOC would make a bigger difference. But California doesn't sell oil-based paint, or it shouldn't, so oil-based paint isn't an issue on TI.
======
Tip #1: Some painters only use specific brands. Example, James at 3-High Painting does not use Behr or Valspar, and only DE. Xenak only uses DE. But Perfect Painting uses anything the customer wants. So when vetting, pick the painter that uses the paint + the paint line you like.
Tip #2: Just because someone uses DE, it doesn't mean they use the top line of DE. Make sure to have the exact paint line written into the contract.
Tip #3: Licensed, bonded, insured, + references. Very helpful.
Tip #4: Painter must be excellent at prepping: take switches off the lights, protect your floors, sand down walls, draw STRAIGHT lines on molding, etc.
Tip #5: Older the house you may need higher quality paint to cover up the old.
Tip #6: Great time for shelve removal and patch up jobs when repainting a house.
Tip #7: Ask for warranty against fading or scuff marks, etc.
Tip 8: The more pigmentation of color the more difficult it is to get the desired results. Violet, Red, etc. will be harder to achieve with lower quality paint.
Tip #9: "The more solids, the better quality of the paint." Determine your paint quality and how much you are willing to budget to achieve that quality.http://colerepair.com/Understanding what makes a quality paint
=====
For the ladies at TI:
If you can't decided on color or color scheme for your house, I recommend Paula the Color Coach. She's really amazing and has giant color swatches. But she is pricy and charges by the hour. But she will look at your floors, furniture, etc and pick the best wall color and furniture color for you. She works well with Brandon of Perfect Painting
=====
After all my crazy vetting, here's the Zerolot Report:
Most professional with great attention to detail: Certa Pro, licensed-bonded-insured
Most Artistic & a stickler for Perfectionism: Xenak, licensed ... not sure on the bonded & insured.
Most Flexible Painter (willing to go with ANY paint brand or line) Perfect Painting, licensed-bonded-insured
====================
As always, please choose the painter that works out well with you and shares YOUR VISION.
DIY is always cheaper and more cost effective. But if you can't DIY then I hope my tips above helps you in your search for the best painter!
==============
Conclusion, as much as I love Certa Pro, I can't over look the price and quality offered by Brandon at Perfect Painting. I can choose to use Benjamin Moore Paint Zero-VOC with Perfect Painting and it will cost the same as what Certa Pro is charging me for Sherwin Williams Zero-VOC.
Based on everyone's comments + consumer reports + painters forums, here's my summary of the popular paints brands:
Benjamin Moore - durable, paints easily, great pigmentation, but expensive, highly rated by Consumer Reports and MANY painters and TI peeps.
Dunn Edwards - contractor grade paint, middle of the road, West Coast only, not rated by Consumer Reports. Majority of the painters I vetted prefers Dunn Edwards.
Sherwin Williams - contractor grade paint, middle of the road, can be as low as $17/gallon to $70/gallon, nationwide brand, ranks in the lower part of the Consumer Report scale.
Behr - highly rated by Consumer Report but painters have complained it's quite plasticy. Very durable paint once it sticks.
====
Low-VOC vs Zero-VOC
Just a matter of personal preference. Most paints are water-based now so it really makes no difference. Zero-VOC paint is more difficult to work with because it's mostly liquid. Requires a contractor that can take the time to really paint with it to make the colors even and vibrant.
If you are using an oil-based paint ... then zero-VOC would make a bigger difference. But California doesn't sell oil-based paint, or it shouldn't, so oil-based paint isn't an issue on TI.
======
Tip #1: Some painters only use specific brands. Example, James at 3-High Painting does not use Behr or Valspar, and only DE. Xenak only uses DE. But Perfect Painting uses anything the customer wants. So when vetting, pick the painter that uses the paint + the paint line you like.
Tip #2: Just because someone uses DE, it doesn't mean they use the top line of DE. Make sure to have the exact paint line written into the contract.
Tip #3: Licensed, bonded, insured, + references. Very helpful.
Tip #4: Painter must be excellent at prepping: take switches off the lights, protect your floors, sand down walls, draw STRAIGHT lines on molding, etc.
Tip #5: Older the house you may need higher quality paint to cover up the old.
Tip #6: Great time for shelve removal and patch up jobs when repainting a house.
Tip #7: Ask for warranty against fading or scuff marks, etc.
Tip 8: The more pigmentation of color the more difficult it is to get the desired results. Violet, Red, etc. will be harder to achieve with lower quality paint.
Tip #9: "The more solids, the better quality of the paint." Determine your paint quality and how much you are willing to budget to achieve that quality.http://colerepair.com/Understanding what makes a quality paint
=====
For the ladies at TI:
If you can't decided on color or color scheme for your house, I recommend Paula the Color Coach. She's really amazing and has giant color swatches. But she is pricy and charges by the hour. But she will look at your floors, furniture, etc and pick the best wall color and furniture color for you. She works well with Brandon of Perfect Painting
=====
After all my crazy vetting, here's the Zerolot Report:
Most professional with great attention to detail: Certa Pro, licensed-bonded-insured
Most Artistic & a stickler for Perfectionism: Xenak, licensed ... not sure on the bonded & insured.
Most Flexible Painter (willing to go with ANY paint brand or line) Perfect Painting, licensed-bonded-insured
====================
As always, please choose the painter that works out well with you and shares YOUR VISION.
DIY is always cheaper and more cost effective. But if you can't DIY then I hope my tips above helps you in your search for the best painter!
==============
Conclusion, as much as I love Certa Pro, I can't over look the price and quality offered by Brandon at Perfect Painting. I can choose to use Benjamin Moore Paint Zero-VOC with Perfect Painting and it will cost the same as what Certa Pro is charging me for Sherwin Williams Zero-VOC.