jbatzmaru_IHB
New member
asianinvasian said:Here are the plans for the north blimp hangar. Last I heard is 2010.
Can you post a bigger pic of the map?
How Long Will It Take To Build Out Columbus Square?
- Thread starter rickhunter_IHB
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Can you post a bigger pic of the map?
I agree. Lets get back to hard facts, like the 30% YOY decreases for the poor SOB's who bought in 2007.
Wait. That might be more painful than the subjective nature of "what constitutes a toxic waste site".
Wait, wait, wait.
Lets discuss how anyone bought in 2005+ overpaid by 30% AND they own a potentially unsellable home to anyone who cares about potental soil contamination issues! That's the ticket!
This place ain't Love Canal, but it ain't pristine either.
Let me know where the "Love Canal" is and I will buy there..... oh wait... I guess that is subjective also. hmmm....
For those who knows me by now would I be demographic who desire a home in Columbus Square.
Here are pictures of my backyard. I was lamenting over my rejection by Columbus Square so I went out and bought this 1/3 acre property instead.
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http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/lovecanal/01.htm
This is straight out of the EPA's website.
"Landfills can of course be an environmentally acceptable method of hazardous waste disposal, assuming they are properly sited, managed, and regulated. Love Canal will always remain a perfect historical example of how not to run such an operation.
In 1953, the Hooker Chemical Company, then the owners and operators of the property, covered the canal with earth and sold it to the city for one dollar.
It was a bad buy.
In the late '50s, about 100 homes and a school were built at the site."
<snip>
"Just months later, Love Canal exploded.
The explosion was triggered by a record amount of rainfall. Shortly thereafter, the leaching began.
I visited the canal area at that time. Corroding waste-disposal drums could be seen breaking up through the grounds of backyards. Trees and gardens were turning black and dying. One entire swimming pool had been had been popped up from its foundation, afloat now on a small sea of chemicals. "
<snip>
"And then there were the birth defects."
I have publicly stated here (and in to the face of several users of this fourm) that I am frankly not concerned with the reputed "toxic soil" of this project. My wife is a civil engeneer, and I have a geologist buddy from college who did the soil study at Beale and I know what real JP5 contaimination issues look like.
My concern is the VOC project has poor traffic mitigation, lousy floorplan homes with postage stamp sized lots, a monster HOA and Mello Roos burden, AND the stigma of being a "potential site with comtaninated soil". And they want to compete with what properties in Irvine? This is the worst housing stock in the whole city!
This place should of been built with stacks of sub prime housing for sub prime buyers. NOT uberpremium Irvinistas who demand excelence and perfection from developers and the city (after all, that's why people live in Irvine, right?). The whole mess is off 30% from the peak. Worst in the city.
Why would somebody be dumb enough to buy in a neighborhood that is partially built out, that is losing value faster than every other zipcode in the city, AND has this stigma strapped to it? Simple.
Idiots.
Thanks for another subjective opinion...
Thanks! You too...
Costa Mesa 92627 $547,500 -21.9% 22 -45.0%
Irvine 92612 $506,250 -24.2% 19 -64.2%
Newport Beach 92663 $795,000 -38.0% 19 -26.9%
Lets recap the facts (not conjecture)-
1. Moffitt Field in NorCal has a monster soil contamination problem, caused almost 100% by the SR-71, and the fact the airplanes skin ran so hot at Mach 3, the tanks had to leak on the ground so they wouldn't rupture once they heated it up. It was so bad, they would pump JP-5 into the plane while it was sitting on the runway running - to keep it from running out of fuel. We are talking thousands and thousands of gallons per flight just dumped on the runway. They flew thousands and thousands of cold war sortees out of there. After the plane was up, the first thing they did was meet up with the air tanker and refuel!
Thus, Moffitt is in bad shape. Yet, hope springs eternal on cleaning it up.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/10/mil-071024-afpn04.htm
2. Tustin never had this sort of contamination, because it never had this sort of air traffic.
3. Most sites that had any sort of equipment/aircraft/maintance have a problem similar to Tustin.
4. My opinion is that whatever soil problem exists at Tustin is quite minimal. I disagree with BK on this point. There are soil contamination problems (and water quality problems) all over, and I don't think this one is as egregous as lead pipes in California schools. Still, it's just my opinion. I base this opinion on the fact that............
5. My wife is a civil engeneer. She does structures, but we have a lot of friends who do enviromental and they have some enviromental folks in her office.
6. Most people don't have a resident civil engeneer to consult on this sort of stuff, but when they hear stuff like "toxic waste" and "water contamination issues" they tend to just freak out and run away. This project has this stigma, no matter what I think.
7. The traffic mitigation around this project sucks. This is also my opinion, which I have reached because:
A) I know civil engeneers who do traffic and they openly laugh at this goatscrew, and
B) I have driven around it and recognize it's currently a disaster that will only get worse.
8. Irvine residents are picky, and have high expectations. Duh. Think nobody's going to care about any of this?
9. See Graph's post this morning on the main blog for evidence about how prices in the VOC have gone to hell in a handbasket. The place is getting crushed, and worse, it's speeding up.
If I were openly in the market of a property like this, this is the last one in the area I'd consider. If that makes me an ass because I write that, then I'm an ass.
If you think my facts are out of line, or my opinions are off base, I'd love somebody to come refute them. I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm pretty far from perfect so if I'm out of line, please let me know. A little humble pie is healthy every now and again.
Finally, I have a place to plant an apple tree and feed apples to all the little Snow White princesses during Halloween.
Can you post a bigger pic of the map?
giltee_IHB
New member
I live in Columbus Square (The Gables). Came to these forums for advice leading up to purchase, and everyone's insight was invaluable.
I've been living here since April 1 (not an April Fools' Joke). Like many of the neighbors around here, I expect to live here for 15-20 years, so I'm not too concerned about short- or medium-term price drops. I'm sure the value of the home we bought will drop by 200K over the next 3-5 years. We can live w/ that...bought the house for the house and not as an investment. It's a good size and nicely designed, decent-quality materials, and we got it w/ the upgrades we wanted already included, such as hardwood floors all throughout (just had to paint and add window treatments, which we're in the process of doing).
A lot of the neighbors are mature or retired families.
The cons have more to do with perceived resale value than anything that really has an impact on us. For example, you can occasionally hear the train, there is an industrial park not too far away, the hangars are not too far away (as others have said, those are actually growing on me), the area is still not fully developed, some of the soil around the area is toxic, it's in Tustin as opposed to Irvine.
None of these things impact our happiness w/ the house itself, the community, the proximity to highways and conveniences (not to mention my job in Irvine). Bottom line, it's the most we could get for our money compared to the other houses we looked at all throughout Irvine, and it's still in the relative same area we wanted to be in when we first started looking. We're looking forward to getting our landscaping done....
I've got no idea how long buildout will take. I was told 2 years by the builder, but I highly doubt that. I'd guess 4 years at the earliest.
I've been living here since April 1 (not an April Fools' Joke). Like many of the neighbors around here, I expect to live here for 15-20 years, so I'm not too concerned about short- or medium-term price drops. I'm sure the value of the home we bought will drop by 200K over the next 3-5 years. We can live w/ that...bought the house for the house and not as an investment. It's a good size and nicely designed, decent-quality materials, and we got it w/ the upgrades we wanted already included, such as hardwood floors all throughout (just had to paint and add window treatments, which we're in the process of doing).
A lot of the neighbors are mature or retired families.
The cons have more to do with perceived resale value than anything that really has an impact on us. For example, you can occasionally hear the train, there is an industrial park not too far away, the hangars are not too far away (as others have said, those are actually growing on me), the area is still not fully developed, some of the soil around the area is toxic, it's in Tustin as opposed to Irvine.
None of these things impact our happiness w/ the house itself, the community, the proximity to highways and conveniences (not to mention my job in Irvine). Bottom line, it's the most we could get for our money compared to the other houses we looked at all throughout Irvine, and it's still in the relative same area we wanted to be in when we first started looking. We're looking forward to getting our landscaping done....
I've got no idea how long buildout will take. I was told 2 years by the builder, but I highly doubt that. I'd guess 4 years at the earliest.
idrnkurmlkshk_IHB
New member
I'm not from Irvine, but I can't believe they plan on building HOMES on land that is toxic. Is this a joke? I think this development was a product of too much Kool-Aid.
Who the hell wants to live under the shadow of an old hanger???
Who the hell wants to live under the shadow of an old hanger???
ocbuyer_IHB
New member
I see nothing wrong with the hangers... and no they don't plan on building these homes on toxic land. I still have not seen any proof that this is the case. It's all just fabrication from negative people that don't have anything better to do than misrepresent information and spread rumors that change on a daily basis.
Once they finish the development around the hanger I'm sure will look even better with the parks around it, but everyone has their own opinion and we could go back and forth on this subject, which I personally don't have the time or desire to do.
Once they finish the development around the hanger I'm sure will look even better with the parks around it, but everyone has their own opinion and we could go back and forth on this subject, which I personally don't have the time or desire to do.
rickhunter_IHB
New member
I got this on the tustin legacy site.
I dont know how long it's gonna take and how much it's changed though.
As you can see, there's a lot to be done. It's gonna be at least another 5-10 years...
Attached files
I dont know how long it's gonna take and how much it's changed though.
As you can see, there's a lot to be done. It's gonna be at least another 5-10 years...
Attached files
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
ocbuyer said:
I agree. Lets get back to hard facts, like the 30% YOY decreases for the poor SOB's who bought in 2007.
Wait. That might be more painful than the subjective nature of "what constitutes a toxic waste site".
Wait, wait, wait.
Lets discuss how anyone bought in 2005+ overpaid by 30% AND they own a potentially unsellable home to anyone who cares about potental soil contamination issues! That's the ticket!
This place ain't Love Canal, but it ain't pristine either.
ocbuyer_IHB
New member
no_vaseline said:
Let me know where the "Love Canal" is and I will buy there..... oh wait... I guess that is subjective also. hmmm....
irvine123_IHB
New member
Maybe there is nothing wrong with the soil. However,
PERCEPTION IS REALITY. Bad perception can bk a company that makes perfectly fine products.
The prices at Tustin Fields/CS/CG crashed so rapidly for a reason. Perception of sub-par area has to be one of them IMO. You can argue all day long why this area is not sub-par or even better than other Irvine Villages. Unfortunately, that is all irrelevant once the perception is established. It takes a lot of effort to change that perception. The fact that builders are continuing to ask buyers to sign release forms does not really help to change that.
PERCEPTION IS REALITY. Bad perception can bk a company that makes perfectly fine products.
The prices at Tustin Fields/CS/CG crashed so rapidly for a reason. Perception of sub-par area has to be one of them IMO. You can argue all day long why this area is not sub-par or even better than other Irvine Villages. Unfortunately, that is all irrelevant once the perception is established. It takes a lot of effort to change that perception. The fact that builders are continuing to ask buyers to sign release forms does not really help to change that.
rickhunter_IHB
New member
Is this true?
Attached files
Attached files
bkshopr_IHB
New member
rickhunter said:
For those who knows me by now would I be demographic who desire a home in Columbus Square.
Here are pictures of my backyard. I was lamenting over my rejection by Columbus Square so I went out and bought this 1/3 acre property instead.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
ocbuyer said:
http://www.epa.gov/history/topics/lovecanal/01.htm
This is straight out of the EPA's website.
"Landfills can of course be an environmentally acceptable method of hazardous waste disposal, assuming they are properly sited, managed, and regulated. Love Canal will always remain a perfect historical example of how not to run such an operation.
In 1953, the Hooker Chemical Company, then the owners and operators of the property, covered the canal with earth and sold it to the city for one dollar.
It was a bad buy.
In the late '50s, about 100 homes and a school were built at the site."
<snip>
"Just months later, Love Canal exploded.
The explosion was triggered by a record amount of rainfall. Shortly thereafter, the leaching began.
I visited the canal area at that time. Corroding waste-disposal drums could be seen breaking up through the grounds of backyards. Trees and gardens were turning black and dying. One entire swimming pool had been had been popped up from its foundation, afloat now on a small sea of chemicals. "
<snip>
"And then there were the birth defects."
I have publicly stated here (and in to the face of several users of this fourm) that I am frankly not concerned with the reputed "toxic soil" of this project. My wife is a civil engeneer, and I have a geologist buddy from college who did the soil study at Beale and I know what real JP5 contaimination issues look like.
My concern is the VOC project has poor traffic mitigation, lousy floorplan homes with postage stamp sized lots, a monster HOA and Mello Roos burden, AND the stigma of being a "potential site with comtaninated soil". And they want to compete with what properties in Irvine? This is the worst housing stock in the whole city!
This place should of been built with stacks of sub prime housing for sub prime buyers. NOT uberpremium Irvinistas who demand excelence and perfection from developers and the city (after all, that's why people live in Irvine, right?). The whole mess is off 30% from the peak. Worst in the city.
Why would somebody be dumb enough to buy in a neighborhood that is partially built out, that is losing value faster than every other zipcode in the city, AND has this stigma strapped to it? Simple.
Idiots.
ocbuyer_IHB
New member
no_vaseline said:
Thanks for another subjective opinion...
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
Orange County Home Sale Activity
for Home Sales Recorded in May 2008
Tustin 92782 $670,000 -17.0% 38 -46.5%
http://www.dqnews.com/Charts/Monthly-Charts/OC-Register-Charts/ZIPOCR.aspx
Have a great weekend.
for Home Sales Recorded in May 2008
Tustin 92782 $670,000 -17.0% 38 -46.5%
http://www.dqnews.com/Charts/Monthly-Charts/OC-Register-Charts/ZIPOCR.aspx
Have a great weekend.
ocbuyer_IHB
New member
no_vaseline said:
Thanks! You too...
Costa Mesa 92627 $547,500 -21.9% 22 -45.0%
Irvine 92612 $506,250 -24.2% 19 -64.2%
Newport Beach 92663 $795,000 -38.0% 19 -26.9%
jcaraway_IHB
New member
no vase is being an ass about it, "my wife's a civil engineer" blah blah blah, but he's right about the traffic mitigation. for instance, whoever plan checked The District circulation plan must have either been paid off by the developer or a complete idiot. I bring up The Districit because it could be a yard stick to measure how well thought out the road circulation plan for tustin legacy is. Valencia Loop road has houses set back not more than 20 feet and it's definitely going to become literarlly a highway when tustin ranch road opens up. Definitely not well thought out.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
jcaraway said:
Lets recap the facts (not conjecture)-
1. Moffitt Field in NorCal has a monster soil contamination problem, caused almost 100% by the SR-71, and the fact the airplanes skin ran so hot at Mach 3, the tanks had to leak on the ground so they wouldn't rupture once they heated it up. It was so bad, they would pump JP-5 into the plane while it was sitting on the runway running - to keep it from running out of fuel. We are talking thousands and thousands of gallons per flight just dumped on the runway. They flew thousands and thousands of cold war sortees out of there. After the plane was up, the first thing they did was meet up with the air tanker and refuel!
Thus, Moffitt is in bad shape. Yet, hope springs eternal on cleaning it up.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/10/mil-071024-afpn04.htm
2. Tustin never had this sort of contamination, because it never had this sort of air traffic.
3. Most sites that had any sort of equipment/aircraft/maintance have a problem similar to Tustin.
4. My opinion is that whatever soil problem exists at Tustin is quite minimal. I disagree with BK on this point. There are soil contamination problems (and water quality problems) all over, and I don't think this one is as egregous as lead pipes in California schools. Still, it's just my opinion. I base this opinion on the fact that............
5. My wife is a civil engeneer. She does structures, but we have a lot of friends who do enviromental and they have some enviromental folks in her office.
6. Most people don't have a resident civil engeneer to consult on this sort of stuff, but when they hear stuff like "toxic waste" and "water contamination issues" they tend to just freak out and run away. This project has this stigma, no matter what I think.
7. The traffic mitigation around this project sucks. This is also my opinion, which I have reached because:
A) I know civil engeneers who do traffic and they openly laugh at this goatscrew, and
B) I have driven around it and recognize it's currently a disaster that will only get worse.
8. Irvine residents are picky, and have high expectations. Duh. Think nobody's going to care about any of this?
9. See Graph's post this morning on the main blog for evidence about how prices in the VOC have gone to hell in a handbasket. The place is getting crushed, and worse, it's speeding up.
If I were openly in the market of a property like this, this is the last one in the area I'd consider. If that makes me an ass because I write that, then I'm an ass.
If you think my facts are out of line, or my opinions are off base, I'd love somebody to come refute them. I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm pretty far from perfect so if I'm out of line, please let me know. A little humble pie is healthy every now and again.
jcaraway_IHB
New member
CEQA requirements and the state of california have very stringent environmental requirements. Reading any of these reports, even a negative declaration, could paint a dire picture in the mind of anyone, especially the paranoid, alarmist, milita members that post on this forum. Any VoC that were deteced in the ground were going to be a result of the air traffic regardless of the amount. UST's were obviously used to store fuel and more likely than not, a few of those leaked, any maintanence and disposal of oil will cause it. Though VoC's may be higher than acceptable standards, those standards are guaged over a lifetime and are seperated from residents by a thick layer of concrete, moisture barier and if the builder was paranoid, a vapor barier.
A civil engineer that does structures isn't much of a civil engieer given that they are only licensed to do basic type v homes and walls no taller than a bush.
A civil engineer that does structures isn't much of a civil engieer given that they are only licensed to do basic type v homes and walls no taller than a bush.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
acpme said:
Finally, I have a place to plant an apple tree and feed apples to all the little Snow White princesses during Halloween.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
I couldn't agree more with what you wrote in the first paragraph.
Insofar as your second paragraph......I thought your presence here was a often a waste of bandwidth, but this confirmed it. Your ignorance on this topic is astounding.
Insofar as your second paragraph......I thought your presence here was a often a waste of bandwidth, but this confirmed it. Your ignorance on this topic is astounding.