Holy Rip Off on QH home

F

frank69m_IHB

New member
As most of you know, I've been looking for a home in either QH, or Oak Creek. Possibly PS, but with the limited supply, still waiting.



This new listing just came up in QH:



http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/136-Tapestry-92603/home/5902433



I bet they are just testing the market because of this:



Sq. Ft.: 2,551

$/Sq. Ft.: $548



And a list of 1.4 million while being on the busy street side without a view.



Who are these freaks kiddin?



What do you guys think the price per sqft should go in QH? 400 How about Oak Creek?



Maybe I'll just keep waiting, but prices haven't gone down as most of us have predicted.
 
I saw that listing and thought the same thing. You would think after the description of the backyard, that they would actually post some pictures of it! The same RE agency also listed another WTF home yesterday in the Terraces section of TRock. They want $1.6 million for 2600 sq feet.
 
It underscores why organic sales are so rare. Most owners who do not have to sell are acting as if there was no housing bubble. Not just do many believe that 2006 prices were rational, they believe prices have risen since then.
 
Not surprising at all based upon what I've been seeing. I just wonder if sellers like these realize that their homes will never appraise for anything close to their asking prices. Based upon my research, QH SFR homes have traded for around $330-$360/sf.
 
[quote author="PadreBrian" date=1244612825]Holy Denial Batman!



Why didn't the realtor use the comps to convince the sellers?</blockquote>
Because they would have never gotten the listing that way with the kool-aid guzzling seller.
 
I don't understand how this home thinks it will sell for $1.4m when the home across the street with a view lot and more square footage hasn't moved for 102 days and is priced at $1.3m:



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/141-Tapestry-92603/home/5902320">http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/141-Tapestry-92603/home/5902320</a>



What gets me about the 136 listing is this:

<blockquote>

7435 sq ft. lot!!!One of the largest lots in the tract.'Certified Wildlife Habitat' by National Wildlife Federation.

</blockquote>
I should do that too... <a href="http://www.nwf.org">www.nwf.org</a> says even an apartment balcony can get certification. Or maybe I'll just register a star and list it on my next MLS listing.



And only 4 of the 13 pictures of the house... not a single one of the "show place" backyard. Gah.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1244615474]I don't understand how this home thinks it will sell for $1.4m when the home across the street with a view lot and more square footage hasn't moved for 102 days and is priced at $1.3m:



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/141-Tapestry-92603/home/5902320">http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/141-Tapestry-92603/home/5902320</a>



What gets me about the 136 listing is this:

<blockquote>

7435 sq ft. lot!!!One of the largest lots in the tract.'Certified Wildlife Habitat' by National Wildlife Federation.

</blockquote>
I should do that too... <a href="http://www.nwf.org">www.nwf.org</a> says even an apartment balcony can get certification. Or maybe I'll just register a star and list it on my next MLS listing.



And only 4 of the 13 pictures of the house... not a single one of the "show place" backyard. Gah.</blockquote>
Anyone want to be my shill buyer so we can send a low ball offer so I can have an excuse to call the agent and laugh at them???
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1244582797]Not surprising at all based upon what I've been seeing. I just wonder if sellers like these realize that their homes will never appraise for anything close to their asking prices. Based upon my research, QH SFR homes have traded for around $330-$360/sf.</blockquote>


you sure about that? 330-360 would put most houses even in the lower streets around 850-1.1 million which I don't believe in the last 6 months, non have sold for around that much. They have sold for more.
 
[quote author="frank69m" date=1244620612][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1244582797]Not surprising at all based upon what I've been seeing. I just wonder if sellers like these realize that their homes will never appraise for anything close to their asking prices. Based upon my research, QH SFR homes have traded for around $330-$360/sf.</blockquote>


you sure about that? 330-360 would put most houses even in the lower streets around 850-1.1 million which I don't believe in the last 6 months, non have sold for around that much. They have sold for more.</blockquote>
There were a few really large ones that sold in that range (3,500+ sf)....in the $1.35M to $1.45M range.
 
Real estate is always unique. Every house is different. No two houses are exactly the same.



First of all regarding the Tapestry property, how is Spyglass a busy street? I would imagine that only other residents drive through there. The land is in a good area and the houses are brand new, so how is a list price of $1.4 mil so outrageous? I would pick that house over <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/35-Twiggs-92620/home/5958428">this </a>any day. I think one of the fundamental problems of this whole economic situation is that the very nature of value has changed. In a no-mortgage paradigm I would say this house goes to $900k in an absolute worst case scenario. But since we still have the luxury of getting mortgages, this house on a fixed rate with a purchase price around $1.2 mil is not unreasonable. Good schools, great scenery, successful neighbors which your kids will make life-long friends with their kids, etc. If its a permanent place, then this house is actually ideally situated.



The Terrace house on the other hand seems a little older, and considering there is only one picture of the house, probably a fixer-uper. Again, location matters. See above. In addition, TR was designed by William Pereira, whom if you don't know, is the mastermind of futurist-way-ahead-of-his-time social architecture. Notice how the sidewalks around TR Drive are so narrow, and never run straight, each is a different curve. If you ever took a walk in TR, you would notice Pereira's genius. The interior walkways are plentiful and wide, allowing people to walk and maintain their "comfort zone" as Pereira thought, yet the narrow exterior walkways would compel people to engage the interior walkways, and thereby, force them into social interaction! Pure genius! Social interaction with your own zone of comfort. This house has a view which is scarce, so obviously there is a premium.This house is a collectors item. In a worst case scenario(no-mortgage) this house goes to $1 million. With the privilege of still having mortgages, at a fixed rate, $1.5 mil.



People seem to think that housing prices will shoot down and then they can just waltz into a bank and get a mortgage. If housing prices keep going down, there won't be any mortgages, so everyone who patiently waited for housing prices to fall will still be priced out of the market (unless they have 100% cash). Of course this would result in deregulation and then you would have all the new private banks charging 60% interest on these much lower house prices. In the end you pay the same.
 
[quote author="LoudRoar" date=1244636744]

Real estate is always unique. Every house is different. No two houses are exactly the same.



First of all regarding the Tapestry property, how is Spyglass a busy street? I would imagine that only other residents drive through there. The land is in a good area and the houses are brand new, so how is a list price of $1.4 mil so outrageous?</blockquote>
It's outrageous compared to the comps. It's a Plan 1... the 141 Tapestry is a Plan 3 which is not only bigger but has a better floorplan. And... this doesn't even take into account that much bigger models in nicer locations in QH have listed for similar prices. You're right.... Tapestry does not compare to Sienna or Vicara houses... so it shouldn't even be listed in that price range.



But let's be fair and only compare the last sold homes for Tapestry models since 2008:



01/17/2008 138 Treehouse 5 3050 $1,275,000 $1,228,000

03/21/2008 143 Weathervane 5 3050 $1,245,000 $1,105,000

07/08/2008 142 Treehouse 4 3000 $1,289,000 $1,239,000

08/11/2008 141 Treehouse 5 2900 $1,250,000 $1,150,000

09/25/2008 154 Weathervane 5 3000 $1,299,000 $1,250,000

10/24/2008 154 Tapestry 5 2800 $1,108,000 $1,100,000

11/12/2008 160 Weathervane 4 2557 $1,048,800 $1,010,000

12/31/2008 138 Weathervane 5 2900 $1,199,000 $1,060,000

01/13/2009 160 Tapestry 5 2850 $1,199,000 $1,140,000



Now you tell me... does $1.4mil seem outrageous?
 
Don't get me wrong- the Terraces is an area I would like to buy my home- but not for $612/sq foot! Even Newport Beach homes in good areas are not going for that ridiculous $/sq foot. Maybe you've been listening to TonyE too much on the blog!
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1244640946][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1244636744]

Real estate is always unique. Every house is different. No two houses are exactly the same.



First of all regarding the Tapestry property, how is Spyglass a busy street? I would imagine that only other residents drive through there. The land is in a good area and the houses are brand new, so how is a list price of $1.4 mil so outrageous?</blockquote>
It's outrageous compared to the comps. It's a Plan 1... the 141 Tapestry is a Plan 3 which is not only bigger but has a better floorplan. And... this doesn't even take into account that much bigger models in nicer locations in QH have listed for similar prices. You're right.... Tapestry does not compare to Sienna or Vicara houses... so it shouldn't even be listed in that price range.



But let's be fair and only compare the last sold homes for Tapestry models since 2008:



01/17/2008 138 Treehouse 5 3050 $1,275,000 $1,228,000

03/21/2008 143 Weathervane 5 3050 $1,245,000 $1,105,000

07/08/2008 142 Treehouse 4 3000 $1,289,000 $1,239,000

08/11/2008 141 Treehouse 5 2900 $1,250,000 $1,150,000

09/25/2008 154 Weathervane 5 3000 $1,299,000 $1,250,000

10/24/2008 154 Tapestry 5 2800 $1,108,000 $1,100,000

11/12/2008 160 Weathervane 4 2557 $1,048,800 $1,010,000

12/31/2008 138 Weathervane 5 2900 $1,199,000 $1,060,000

01/13/2009 160 Tapestry 5 2850 $1,199,000 $1,140,000



Now you tell me... does $1.4mil seem outrageous?</blockquote>


I would say you are right that $1.4 is an outrageous <em>purchase</em> price, but as to a <em>listing </em>price its not outrageous, it makes perfect sense. Seller hopes to get greater than $1.3 but knows of the possibility that in this market even $1.2 would suffice and he can just break even. Now compared to those comps $1.2 to $1.3 purchase price is not so outrageous.
 
[quote author="LoudRoar" date=1244710130][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1244640946][quote author="LoudRoar" date=1244636744]

Real estate is always unique. Every house is different. No two houses are exactly the same.



First of all regarding the Tapestry property, how is Spyglass a busy street? I would imagine that only other residents drive through there. The land is in a good area and the houses are brand new, so how is a list price of $1.4 mil so outrageous?</blockquote>
It's outrageous compared to the comps. It's a Plan 1... the 141 Tapestry is a Plan 3 which is not only bigger but has a better floorplan. And... this doesn't even take into account that much bigger models in nicer locations in QH have listed for similar prices. You're right.... Tapestry does not compare to Sienna or Vicara houses... so it shouldn't even be listed in that price range.



But let's be fair and only compare the last sold homes for Tapestry models since 2008:



01/17/2008 138 Treehouse 5 3050 $1,275,000 $1,228,000

03/21/2008 143 Weathervane 5 3050 $1,245,000 $1,105,000

07/08/2008 142 Treehouse 4 3000 $1,289,000 $1,239,000

08/11/2008 141 Treehouse 5 2900 $1,250,000 $1,150,000

09/25/2008 154 Weathervane 5 3000 $1,299,000 $1,250,000

10/24/2008 154 Tapestry 5 2800 $1,108,000 $1,100,000

11/12/2008 160 Weathervane 4 2557 $1,048,800 $1,010,000

12/31/2008 138 Weathervane 5 2900 $1,199,000 $1,060,000

01/13/2009 160 Tapestry 5 2850 $1,199,000 $1,140,000



Now you tell me... does $1.4mil seem outrageous?</blockquote>


I would say you are right that $1.4 is an outrageous <em>purchase</em> price, but as to a <em>listing </em>price its not outrageous, it makes perfect sense. Seller hopes to get greater than $1.3 but knows of the possibility that in this market even $1.2 would suffice and he can just break even. Now compared to those comps $1.2 to $1.3 purchase price is not so outrageous.</blockquote>
You do realize that if you look at the sft of the models I listed above, only one is the same plan... 160 Weathervane ended up with a final LIST PRICE of $1,048,800. All the other models that listed higher than $1.2m were Plan 3s and going back to October of 2008, the highest list price was $1.2m. Granted, these probably started out at $1.3m but again... those are Plan 3s... not Plan 1 which is the smallest and least popular floorplan (IMO) of the Tapestry models.



In today's economy, agents (and owners) need to be smarter about their list prices. If they want $1.3 but will take $1.2... why not list at $1.3? Listing at $1.4 just prices it out of the market because in Quail Hill... that's Sienna/Chantilly pricing. The last time a Tapestry sold for higher than $1.4 was early 2007 and that was for a Plan 3. In the last year and a half, not a single plan as sold for close to $1.3m. Doesn't the fact that bigger models with view lots and are listed at $1.3 haven't sold for over 3 months mean anything?



I'm sorry... but for a Plan 1 that's not highly upgraded (other than the large lot)... $1.4 is not just outrageous... it's insane, even for an FCB. If they really want to move it, list it for $1.1m and generate some bids. Honestly, I doubt they'll get even $1.2m... but I'm not a Realtor... I just pretend to be one in the shower.
 
At $1.4 million, they're encroaching on Vicara properties. 25 Fresco- with a view and single level and 3000 sq feet sold for $1.42 million.



I had an interesting call from a broker for a home in the Port Streets. For some reason, i gave out my work number- but didn't give my extension. But he found me. He says- hi it's XXX? He didn't say I'm XXX from ReMax, First Estate, etc. He just said- It's X. I was totally confused- thought it was a salesperson trying to sell me research.



Anyways- he says "I talked to the seller, and he is REALLLLY motivitated to sell. How much would you offer this property for?" I was taken aback- as he is not my realtor. So I said- if he's really motivated, why doesn't he just reduce the list price? He didn't answer that question, responding to me that his call to me WAS a way to tell me he's willing to take a lower offer.



So- he asks me what I would pay. I tell him- look, Newport Coast is getting very weak. Why would I pay XXX for your house (which is at least $300K-$400K overpriced)- when I can go to NC and get a new house and with air conditioning to boot. Then he tells me that in NC, I have to pay the guard gate. To which i reply- "If i am in that price bracket, a couple hundred dollar difference isn't going to kill me". So then I tell him about the comp on Port Carlisle- a 4400 sq foot home for $398 a square foot. I tell him- why would I buy your $500+ $/sq foot home and it's only 3500 sq feet when I can get Port Carlise for a cheaper absolute price and 1100 more sq footage and I don't have to remodel bathrooms. He didn't know how to answer me.



I had such fun with that conversation. Just had to share!
 
[quote author="JoonB" date=1244765275]At $1.4 million, they're encroaching on Vicara properties. 25 Fresco- with a view and single level and 3000 sq feet sold for $1.42 million.



I had an interesting call from a broker for a home in the Port Streets. For some reason, i gave out my work number- but didn't give my extension. But he found me. He says- hi it's XXX? He didn't say I'm XXX from ReMax, First Estate, etc. He just said- It's X. I was totally confused- thought it was a salesperson trying to sell me research.



Anyways- he says "I talked to the seller, and he is REALLLLY motivitated to sell. How much would you offer this property for?" I was taken aback- as he is not my realtor. So I said- if he's really motivated, why doesn't he just reduce the list price? He didn't answer that question, responding to me that his call to me WAS a way to tell me he's willing to take a lower offer.



So- he asks me what I would pay. I tell him- look, Newport Coast is getting very weak. Why would I pay XXX for your house (which is at least $300K-$400K overpriced)- when I can go to NC and get a new house and with air conditioning to boot. Then he tells me that in NC, I have to pay the guard gate. To which i reply- "If i am in that price bracket, a couple hundred dollar difference isn't going to kill me". So then I tell him about the comp on Port Carlisle- a 4400 sq foot home for $398 a square foot. I tell him- why would I buy your $500+ $/sq foot home and it's only 3500 sq feet when I can get Port Carlise for a cheaper absolute price and 1100 more sq footage and I don't have to remodel bathrooms. He didn't know how to answer me.



I had such fun with that conversation. Just had to share!</blockquote>
Just another example of another idiot chasing commission $$$.
 
136 Tapestry has open house, stopped by and saw it.



I have to say, the yard is gorgeous. Photos and description do not do it justice. Most of the yards I have seen are full of very pretentious, but not very useable stuff (ex. hardscaping everywhere makes it too hot to use, minimal plants, firepit people don't use, etc). This yard is completely different. There are lots of plants and it feels like a naturalistic setting. The train is cool too. I could see myself and my kids in this backyard all the time hanging out and sketching things - I think BK would like it. It feels classy and useable - like the kind of space you'd expect a getaway B&B to have for guests to lounge around in and relax.



The master bedroom balcony overlooks the street and beyond that is the green hills of the park. I could see using that balcony as well - I think this is the first I've seen on an interior location that doesn't have neighbors staring out their windows at the balcony.
 
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