High School Rankings

I

IrvineCommuter_IHB

New member
I was wondering what people thought about U.S. News ranking high schools. I am a little conflicted. On the one hand, schools who do a good job should be lauded for their efforts but I cannot but feel a little weird about trying to rank high schools. Colleges and graduated school are fine and understandable but high school gets a little hairy for me.



Additionally, do you put any credibility to the rankings and would it affect where you send you kids (if you have them) or where you buy a house? Would you feel that your kids are not getting a good education if they were going to a school that is near one of the top schools?



If you are interested, here is the list of the top 100.



Correction on my earlier comment about Whitney, they are the 4th best school in Cali (thank Tmare)



<a href="http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2008/12/04/best-high-schools-gold-medal-list.html">http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/high-schools/2008/12/04/best-high-schools-gold-medal-list.html</a>
 
There are three other CA schools before the #10 California school, which gives us 4/10 in the country, not bad. Of course when you only allow the top kids to come to your school, no one should be surprised that it appears to be a great school.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1228553687]I am grateful for the hs rankings report and the report influences where we will buy a home.</blockquote>


Let us go invade the city of Cypress. Houses are cheap there and even cheaper in Stanton.



Cerritos is also on the list. Indian students study hard even more so than the Chinese.
 
Just about any district can create one of these schools. Simply grab your best teachers, siphon them from the existing schools, then grab all of your best students and siphon them from the existing schools, and VOILA!, you have one of the top 100 high schools in the country. It's easy. Unfortunately, the other schools suffer for it. Would I want my child to go to one of these schools? Of course. But that doesn't really address the problem. Track the scores and achievement of the nearby schools for a few years after these schools open and you'll find a decline.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1228558917][quote author="awgee" date=1228553687]I am grateful for the hs rankings report and the report influences where we will buy a home.</blockquote>


Let us go invade the city of Cypress. Houses are cheap there and even cheaper in Stanton.



Cerritos is also on the list. Indian students study hard even more so than the Chinese.</blockquote>


IIRC, Oxford is not a neighborhood school. The attendees have tested and auditioned in.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1228608170][quote author="bkshopr" date=1228558917][quote author="awgee" date=1228553687]I am grateful for the hs rankings report and the report influences where we will buy a home.</blockquote>


Let us go invade the city of Cypress. Houses are cheap there and even cheaper in Stanton.



Cerritos is also on the list. Indian students study hard even more so than the Chinese.</blockquote>


IIRC, Oxford is not a neighborhood school. The attendees have tested and auditioned in.</blockquote>


And that just proves my point.
 
For those too lazy to do the research and are interested in how Irvine's high schools did, here are the results:



The top 100 scored in a range from 100.0 to 61.2 with 100.0 being the best.



University High - 58.2

Northwood High - 49.1

Woodbridge High - 34.9

Beckman High - Not included in study

Irvine High - Not included in study



Other HS's of note



Corona Del Mar - 52.0

Laguna Beach - 30.6

Orange County HS of the Arts - 39.5
 
I am intrigued by the lack of response in this thread. Is it because Irvine in not in the top 100 therefore just sweep the big elephant under the rug and pretend that that it does not exist. Wealth does not give kids the drive to succeed in schools. The sole reason for the kids in Irvine in studying hard is the self glorification and bragging right of admission to the top universities. Both parents and kids brag about this. On the contrary, those kids from the ghettos studying hard are their only lifeline for getting out of the gangsters boundaries in avoiding that inevitable bullet.



6 schools in California placed in the top 100 came from places of under privileged families and economically challenged communities in Southern CA and in Central Valley.



Fresno placed at 45 known as the migrant farmers region of our central agricultural valley. NoVas should be proud.



Lennox positioned at 21 is remarkable. I bet that 80% of Irvine residents do not know where Lennox is in the Socal geography thinking that it is some rich smart town somewhere in Northern CA? It is between Hawthorne and Inglewood by 109th St located in the heart of a poor black neighborhood.



Carson positioned at 26. It is where 2 gang territories collide. The Hispanic and black are divided racially on the school ground and in the city. Sandwiched in the midst of industrial manufactures bordered by Wilmington Ave and Avalon kids live in a polluted environment.



Los Angeles is placed at 53 and could not be more central. It is also in a poor area.



Hawthorne is at 70. It is another black neighborhood infested with gangs and crimes in south central LA. People do not sit in front rooms at night.



Inglewood at 94, a formerly upscale white neighborhood with mass exodus during the late 50's and 60's after a few black families moved in.



I am disappointed that Irvine did not get published near the top 100s while the slum schools is achieving accolade.



The homes in these communities are dirt cheap 94k-200k and schools are excellent. Most are area of crimes. That will probably be the main deterrent for home shoppers. Being at the bottom of low income level certainly these cities has been labeled as low class status.



When I hear of home shoppers searching for homes they are not really looking for the best schools for their kids it is just an excuse ultimately they are shopping for the neighborhood status defined by the best school. Keeping up with the Joneses is still the motive in buying into a well branded and status village.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1228967085]

I am disappointed that Irvine did not get published near the top 100s while the slum schools is achieving accolade.



The homes in these communities are dirt cheap 94k-200k and schools are excellent. Most are area of crimes. That will probably be the main deterrent for home shoppers. Being at the bottom of low income level certainly these cities has been labeled as low class status.



When I hear of home shoppers searching for homes they are not really looking for the best schools for their kids it is just an excuse ultimately they are shopping for the neighborhood status defined by the best school. Keeping up with the Joneses is still the motive in buying into a well branded and status village.</blockquote>


<strong>bkshopr</strong>



I think the top schools in poor or crime areas are probably mostly magnet schools who are open to any student that can pass the rigid admission/screening process like Oxford is. I am not sure whether all of them are but I did a search on Lennox and it turns out this is a special kind of magnet school. If only top students across the city boundries can be admitted to the school, then the performance of schools is not correlated to the neighborhood status.



As a parent I don't necessary like my kids to be in a magnet school where competition is getting to the point that not-so- brilliant students will be stressful. I have been there where all your peers are top students from every corner of the country and the pressure was sometimes very hard to handle.
 
animo inglewood at #94 and oscar de la hoya animo at #53 are both charter schools run by a company called greendot. i have a family member who is a principal at an animo school so my family is very proud and amazed at the job that is done at these schools. these are outperforming PUBLIC schools that have succeeded where the existing school districts for yrs have floundered. they don't have admissions tests and receive the same public funding as other schools.



just goes to show that underachievement is not always due to the common scapegoats of wealth, race, school funding, or even language (the majority of animo students come from homes that do not use eng as a primary language), but more likely in the teaching systems and administrative bureaucracy.
 
If those results are only based on AP test scores, then it is very misleading. In Irvine, even the dumb kids take the AP exams, but I would be guessing that in the poorer schools there are only a handful of students take AP classes.
 
[quote author="acpme" date=1228972684]animo inglewood at #94 and oscar de la hoya animo at #53 are both charter schools run by a company called greendot. i have a family member who is a principal at an animo school so my family is very proud and amazed at the job that is done at these schools. these are outperforming PUBLIC schools that have succeeded where the existing school districts for yrs have floundered. they don't have admissions tests and receive the same public funding as other schools.



just goes to show that underachievement is not always due to the common scapegoats of wealth, race, school funding, or even language (the majority of animo students come from homes that do not use eng as a primary language), but more likely in the teaching systems and administrative bureaucracy.</blockquote>




how does it show anything specific about teaching and administration?



it shows that if you attract and screen for the most aspirational, hardest working, brightest students in a school system of 800k students, you will come up with some really great ones.



this is like bronx science in NYC, or city college in the 1930s.
 
[quote author="Meatball" date=1228970990][quote author="bkshopr" date=1228967085]

I am disappointed that Irvine did not get published near the top 100s while the slum schools is achieving accolade.



The homes in these communities are dirt cheap 94k-200k and schools are excellent. Most are area of crimes. That will probably be the main deterrent for home shoppers. Being at the bottom of low income level certainly these cities has been labeled as low class status.



When I hear of home shoppers searching for homes they are not really looking for the best schools for their kids it is just an excuse ultimately they are shopping for the neighborhood status defined by the best school. Keeping up with the Joneses is still the motive in buying into a well branded and status village.</blockquote>


<strong>bkshopr</strong>



I think the top schools in poor or crime areas are probably mostly magnet schools who are open to any student that can pass the rigid admission/screening process like Oxford is. I am not sure whether all of them are but I did a search on Lennox and it turns out this is a special kind of magnet school. If only top students across the city boundries can be admitted to the school, then the performance of schools is not correlated to the neighborhood status.



As a parent I don't necessary like my kids to be in a magnet school where competition is getting to the point that not-so- brilliant students will be stressful. I have been there where all your peers are top students from every corner of the country and the pressure was sometimes very hard to handle.</blockquote>


I agree with you that the smart but poor kids from the surrounding cities with poverty are attending the magnet school. Poor kids with brain should have a proper nurturing environment for them to excel. Wealthy kids are not attending these magnet schools in the slum. They all attend some religious school where their academic performances are shield from public like Mater Dei.
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1228974951][quote author="acpme" date=1228972684]animo inglewood at #94 and oscar de la hoya animo at #53 are both charter schools run by a company called greendot. i have a family member who is a principal at an animo school so my family is very proud and amazed at the job that is done at these schools. these are outperforming PUBLIC schools that have succeeded where the existing school districts for yrs have floundered. they don't have admissions tests and receive the same public funding as other schools.



just goes to show that underachievement is not always due to the common scapegoats of wealth, race, school funding, or even language (the majority of animo students come from homes that do not use eng as a primary language), but more likely in the teaching systems and administrative bureaucracy.</blockquote>




how does it show anything specific about teaching and administration?



it shows that if you attract and screen for the most aspirational, hardest working, brightest students in a school system of 800k students, you will come up with some really great ones. this is like bronx science in NYC, or city college in the 1930s.</blockquote>


Their pool of students are from the local vicinities and they are from poor demographics. No rich families in PV or Irvine would send their kids there to be shot at. I personally believe in this generation of kids will achieve greatness in their conviction. From my research fast forward to the future they will least likely settle in Irvine or Newport Coast with Beamers and Mercedes on their driveway. Black and Latino population will remain as minority for the years to come. However I predict that many will return as professionals or scholars in making a difference in improving lives in the inner city.
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1228973441]If those results are only based on AP test scores, then it is very misleading. In Irvine, even the dumb kids take the AP exams, but I would be guessing that in the poorer schools there are only a handful of students take AP classes.</blockquote>


I would have to disagree with you. AP exams are administered to students who have finished the AP courses during the high school years ranging from History, Physics, Calculus, and etc. Not every student met the prerequises for the exam. The objective of the exam is to pass and receive college credits. It is a lot more technical than the SAT. Most kids do not reach Calculus level in high schools and they can't take the AP Calculus exam. Unfortunately there is no AP Geometry, Algebra or Trigonometry for students with a lesser math achievement. Likewise for other similar academic subjects. I was a smart student but I was not even qualified to take the AP exams. Kudo to the smart kids.



Please don't tell me that these school sent only one very smart kid to the AP exams and achieved a perfect score so the schools could rank among the top 100. GPA is not a good indicator of academic knowledge and it is influenced by too many other factors such as personality, discipline, moral, and favoritism.
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1228974951][quote author="acpme" date=1228972684]animo inglewood at #94 and oscar de la hoya animo at #53 are both charter schools run by a company called greendot. i have a family member who is a principal at an animo school so my family is very proud and amazed at the job that is done at these schools. these are outperforming PUBLIC schools that have succeeded where the existing school districts for yrs have floundered. they don't have admissions tests and receive the same public funding as other schools.



just goes to show that underachievement is not always due to the common scapegoats of wealth, race, school funding, or even language (the majority of animo students come from homes that do not use eng as a primary language), but more likely in the teaching systems and administrative bureaucracy.</blockquote>




how does it show anything specific about teaching and administration?



it shows that if you attract and screen for the most aspirational, hardest working, brightest students in a school system of 800k students, you will come up with some really great ones.



this is like bronx science in NYC, or city college in the 1930s.</blockquote>


the type of school you're referring to would be like a magnet school. i believe bronx science does have an admittance exam. and they are often allowed to select from the overall pool of students in the greater area.



the LA charter schools i'm referring to do not have entrance exams and take their students from the surrounding community just like any other school in the local area -- the only difference is the schools are managed independently by a private organization as opposed to the district.



at the animo schools, 90% of students don't pay for breakfast or lunch since their families are all below income reqs to qualify for subsidies. most of the parents do not speak english or high school educations. i guess there is one difference, and that is parents do have to specifically want their kids to attend the charter school as opposed to the normal area school. they cannot test or turn away any students, but the administrators of each school are allowed to establish certain rules such as requiring parents to attend an assemblies every so often so they get updated on going-ons of the school as well as meet one on one with the principal at least once per qtr. that in and of itself is meaningful.



oh and another difference... many of the teachers are ivy league or similarly educated. charters have no problem recruiting bright, young teachers to teach in these communities. its not the community or the pay or the students, which are all the same whether you teach at a charter or a regular public school -- the diff is they're willing to work for the charter organizations, and not for the publicly (mis)managed school districts.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1228976525][quote author="freedomCM" date=1228974951][quote author="acpme" date=1228972684]animo inglewood at #94 and oscar de la hoya animo at #53 are both charter schools run by a company called greendot. i have a family member who is a principal at an animo school so my family is very proud and amazed at the job that is done at these schools. these are outperforming PUBLIC schools that have succeeded where the existing school districts for yrs have floundered. they don't have admissions tests and receive the same public funding as other schools.



just goes to show that underachievement is not always due to the common scapegoats of wealth, race, school funding, or even language (the majority of animo students come from homes that do not use eng as a primary language), but more likely in the teaching systems and administrative bureaucracy.</blockquote>




how does it show anything specific about teaching and administration?



it shows that if you attract and screen for the most aspirational, hardest working, brightest students in a school system of 800k students, you will come up with some really great ones. this is like bronx science in NYC, or city college in the 1930s.</blockquote>


Their pool of students are from the local vicinities and they are from poor demographics. No rich families in PV or Irvine would send their kids there to be shot at. I personally believe in this generation of kids will achieve greatness in their conviction. From my research fast forward to the future they will least likely settle in Irvine or Newport Coast with Beamers and Mercedes on their driveway. Black and Latino population will remain as minority for the years to come. However I predict that many will return as professionals or scholars in making a difference in improving lives in the inner city.</blockquote>


I have several close friends who grew up and were educated in the barrio (Roosevely High, PV high in Blythe) and they are now very successful professionals and top management of major companies; while they probably wouldn't live in Irvine or Newport Coast for personal rather than economic reasons, they have never expressed any desire to return to the barrio. I spent my formative years in the ghetto and living in Irvine now with a beemer in the driveway suits me just fine; I have no desire to ever move back to the "Menlo Zoo" in LA where going to the laundry room at night was a suicidal act. I think many youngsters will express a sincere desire to go back to the 'hood after they've made it in the world but when that time comes, they rarely follow through on that desire.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1228982882][quote author="bkshopr" date=1228976525][quote author="freedomCM" date=1228974951][quote author="acpme" date=1228972684]animo inglewood at #94 and oscar de la hoya animo at #53 are both charter schools run by a company called greendot. i have a family member who is a principal at an animo school so my family is very proud and amazed at the job that is done at these schools. these are outperforming PUBLIC schools that have succeeded where the existing school districts for yrs have floundered. they don't have admissions tests and receive the same public funding as other schools.



just goes to show that underachievement is not always due to the common scapegoats of wealth, race, school funding, or even language (the majority of animo students come from homes that do not use eng as a primary language), but more likely in the teaching systems and administrative bureaucracy.</blockquote>




how does it show anything specific about teaching and administration?



it shows that if you attract and screen for the most aspirational, hardest working, brightest students in a school system of 800k students, you will come up with some really great ones. this is like bronx science in NYC, or city college in the 1930s.</blockquote>


Their pool of students are from the local vicinities and they are from poor demographics. No rich families in PV or Irvine would send their kids there to be shot at. I personally believe in this generation of kids will achieve greatness in their conviction. From my research fast forward to the future they will least likely settle in Irvine or Newport Coast with Beamers and Mercedes on their driveway. Black and Latino population will remain as minority for the years to come. However I predict that many will return as professionals or scholars in making a difference in improving lives in the inner city.</blockquote>


I have several close friends who grew up and were educated in the barrio (Roosevely High, PV high in Blythe) and they are now very successful professionals and top management of major companies; while they probably wouldn't live in Irvine or Newport Coast for personal rather than economic reasons, they have never expressed any desire to return to the barrio. I spent my formative years in the ghetto and living in Irvine now with a beemer in the driveway suits me just fine; I have no desire to ever move back to the "Menlo Zoo" in LA where going to the laundry room at night was a suicidal act. I think many youngsters will express a sincere desire to go back to the 'hood after they've made it in the world but when that time comes, they rarely follow through on that desire.</blockquote>


A few but not all will make enough of an impact like Acpme's relative or friends. Those youngers entering into a business or technology fields will never return. Those with humanity, social science, political science, teaching, and medical degree are likely to seek work in the city rather than private sectors in the suburbs.
 
I have been teaching for over 20 years and I will tell you with a fair degree of certainty that all of these schools have a few things in common whether they are private, magnet or any other name you want to call them: they have requirements that both the students and the parents must fulfill in order to remain a student at the school. The schools nearby will get their rejects, the kids who don't want to do homework and the parents who don't want to, can't or don't know how to help or even motivate their children. I have worked at magnet school for the last 15 years. We are able to do things that regular schools can't. I know that not enough is done at many regular public schools, but the bottom line is that kids and parents are human, they do things when there are consequences and rewards. When you take away consequences, namely the ultimate consequence of being asked to leave a school, you don't have much left. When the students who don't follow through leave, the level of achievement among the remaining students increases.
 
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