Haunted House in Irvine?

I see where you going .. your examples are mostly related to objects/things in a field (gravity field, magnetic field, and pressure field) that experiencing a corresponding force. The problem is that the ghost/thing that created these fields has mass. It is very difficult trying to use physics to explain a non-physical concept without getting into contradiction. It is better not trying to get any credibility in the first place by using formula or by saying it is a scientific/logical concept.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1251168483]



Density = Mass / volume or Mass = Density x volume. All those example has no consistant density nor volume. Therefore there is no mass.</blockquote>


If the density or volume is inconsistent, physicists/mathematicians usually use integral calculus to calculate the mass, which is not zero.
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1251168832][quote author="bkshopr" date=1251168483]



Density = Mass / volume or Mass = Density x volume. All those example has no consistant density nor volume. Therefore there is no mass.</blockquote>


If the density or volume is inconsistent, physicists/mathematicians usually use integral calculus to calculate the mass, which is not zero.</blockquote>




Correct! This is where the realm of spirit exists in the realm of integral calculus where the limit is approaching zero (almost no mass) I tried to explain this in a layman term using the most fundamental terms many readers are familiar with high school physics.



As mass approaches zero in order to move objects the items must have a large surface area, low static friction and inertia. Unstable objects like candle sticks and other upright objects have little surface area but a high over turning moment arm to its center of gravity also likely to be knocked over.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1251169441]But it still involves mass. Even at the molecular level... mass exists.</blockquote>


yes, it still has "invisible to the naked eye almost zero mass" and not enough to bond itself into a mass with density for more than several thousandth of a second. The time for the eye to register the signal to the brain is longer than the spirits existence.
 
I feel most people here can handle a bit more sophisticated than high school algebra. Anyway, I would like to do the incense "experiment" that you did, and see if I can come up with the same conclusion.



For the rest of the discussion, I'll let my sidekick, IHO, handle this ;)
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1251170056]I feel most people here can handle a bit more sophisticated than high school algebra. Anyway, I would like to do the incense "experiment" that you did, and see if I can come up with the same conclusion.



For the rest of the discussion, I'll let my sidekick, IHO, handle this ;)</blockquote>


Yes, the infamous AO3CWGIHO investigative commission.



Make sure the incense stick is not the thin kind because the surface area is too small to be a receptor. Not all dead peoples things have spirit except for the most prized possessions such as the edicts issued by the emperors or an important heirloom or the missing knife that was used to stab Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman.
 
All I have to say is conservation of energy and conservation of momentum. This pretty much knocks down any of these ghost speculations.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1251173029]All I have to say is conservation of energy and conservation of momentum. This pretty much knocks down any of these ghost speculations.</blockquote>


????? Care to offer your analysis ? They are both unrelated to this subject.
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1251170056]

For the rest of the discussion, I'll let my sidekick, IHO, handle this ;)</blockquote>
No way. My brain isn't big enough.



I think out of the examples listed, the following involve "mass" in a more traditional sense:



<blockquote>a blow to knock down a tower of Jenga blocks</blockquote>
Not sure if meant a blow by someone blowing or a blow by someone putting in a wood block incorrectly. In either case, a blow of wind involves mass and an incorrectly placed block is caused by mass displacement.



<blockquote>someone simply walked by while I was stacking some playing cards</blockquote>
The mass involved here is the mass of the person who is walking by to exert enough force on the surface area to transfer vibration to the card structure. A smaller person, with less mass, may not cause the cards to fall. Someone like myself may not only cause the cards to fall but also throw BK himself off balance.



More scientifically:



<blockquote>The force of hurricane is one example where it is totally atmopheric.



Many forces exist in nature that are invisible to the naked eye such as magnetic, temperature changes that causes turbulance and etc.

</blockquote>
Atmospheric pressure (which is also related to the "water pressure in diving" you also mentioned) is also related to mass. Air pressure is measured by its mass. Temperature change in the atmosphere is related to air pressure, which indirectly ties it to mass.



I'm not a scientist, so I don't know this for sure but I think that's right. My brain is exploding.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1251173919][quote author="green_cactus" date=1251173029]All I have to say is conservation of energy and conservation of momentum. This pretty much knocks down any of these ghost speculations.</blockquote>


????? Care to offer your analysis ? They are both unrelated to this subject.</blockquote>


They have everything to do with this subject - energy/momentum are both integral to moving something. You claim that a spirit has some very small non-zero mass. If that mass moves at any speed has to have momentum. Even a single particle of light has some momentum. When a "ghost" moves a drape there is an exchange in momentum and all of its components have to be accounted for. If your ghost is frictionless, and assuming that it was it that moved the drapes, it would have to fly out into the opposite direction at a tremendous rate (heavy drape small velocity, extremely light ghost huge velocity). I wonder what happens when it hits a wall at high speed???



The incense trick you mention is nothing new. Throughout cultures there have been countless ways of using a chaotic system to demonstrate some super-natural behavior. However, when a controlled environment is used all the "magic" disappears. A good example is the use of a dowsing rods, water stick and pendulums in the western world. People have been willing to shell out lots of money on unscrupulous charlatans with the promise of a precious resource (water). As long as there are gullible people, there is money to be made, I guess.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1251175123][quote author="Astute Observer" date=1251170056]

For the rest of the discussion, I'll let my sidekick, IHO, handle this ;)</blockquote>
No way. My brain isn't big enough.



I think out of the examples listed, the following involve "mass" in a more traditional sense:



<blockquote>a blow to knock down a tower of Jenga blocks</blockquote>
Not sure if meant a blow by someone blowing or a blow by someone putting in a wood block incorrectly. In either case, a blow of wind involves mass and an incorrectly placed block is caused by mass displacement.



<blockquote>someone simply walked by while I was stacking some playing cards</blockquote>
The mass involved here is the mass of the person who is walking by to exert enough force on the surface area to transfer vibration to the card structure. A smaller person, with less mass, may not cause the cards to fall. Someone like myself may not only cause the cards to fall but also throw BK himself off balance.



More scientifically:



<blockquote>The force of hurricane is one example where it is totally atmopheric.



Many forces exist in nature that are invisible to the naked eye such as magnetic, temperature changes that causes turbulance and etc.

</blockquote>
Atmospheric pressure (which is also related to the "water pressure in diving" you also mentioned) is also related to mass. Air pressure is measured by its mass. Temperature change in the atmosphere is related to air pressure, which indirectly ties it to mass.



I'm not a scientist, so I don't know this for sure but I think that's right. My brain is exploding.</blockquote>


I like your 3CWG explanation much better.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1251175123][quote author="Astute Observer" date=1251170056]

For the rest of the discussion, I'll let my sidekick, IHO, handle this ;)</blockquote>
No way. My brain isn't big enough.



I think out of the examples listed, the following involve "mass" in a more traditional sense:



<blockquote>a blow to knock down a tower of Jenga blocks</blockquote>
Not sure if meant a blow by someone blowing or a blow by someone putting in a wood block incorrectly. In either case, a blow of wind involves mass and an incorrectly placed block is caused by mass displacement.



<blockquote>someone simply walked by while I was stacking some playing cards</blockquote>
The mass involved here is the mass of the person who is walking by to exert enough force on the surface area to transfer vibration to the card structure. A smaller person, with less mass, may not cause the cards to fall. Someone like myself may not only cause the cards to fall but also throw BK himself off balance.



More scientifically:



<blockquote>The force of hurricane is one example where it is totally atmopheric.



Many forces exist in nature that are invisible to the naked eye such as magnetic, temperature changes that causes turbulance and etc.

</blockquote>
Atmospheric pressure (which is also related to the "water pressure in diving" you also mentioned) is also related to mass. Air pressure is measured by its mass. Temperature change in the atmosphere is related to air pressure, which indirectly ties it to mass.



I'm not a scientist, so I don't know this for sure but I think that's right. My brain is exploding.</blockquote>


The whole concept of pressure is based on the collision of gas particles (that have mass).
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1251175884][quote author="bkshopr" date=1251173919][quote author="green_cactus" date=1251173029]All I have to say is conservation of energy and conservation of momentum. This pretty much knocks down any of these ghost speculations.</blockquote>


????? Care to offer your analysis ? They are both unrelated to this subject.</blockquote>


They have everything to do with this subject - energy/momentum are both integral to moving something. You claim that a spirit has some very small non-zero mass. If that mass moves at any speed has to have momentum. Even a single particle of light has some momentum. When a "ghost" moves a drape there is an exchange in momentum and all of its components have to be accounted for. If your ghost is frictionless, and assuming that it was it that moved the drapes, it would have to fly out into the opposite direction at a tremendous rate (heavy drape small velocity, extremely light ghost huge velocity). I wonder what happens when it hits a wall at high speed???



The incense trick you mention is nothing new. Throughout cultures there have been countless ways of using a chaotic system to demonstrate some super-natural behavior. However, when a controlled environment is used all the "magic" disappears. A good example is the use of a dowsing rods, water stick and pendulums in the western world. People have been willing to shell out lots of money on unscrupulous charlatans with the promise of a precious resource (water). As long as there are gullible people, there is money to be made, I guess.</blockquote>


Good explanation. P=MV is a way to explain it. Momentum is based on mass and speed. Almost zero mass must have high speed to sustain momentum. May be ghosts do move at very high speed.



Because it has almost zero mass then when it run into a wall at high speed the force is virtually zero because the matter hitting a wall has no mass. Force is based on mass.



When a ghost crash into a wall unlike a car with mass where the damaging energy is absorbed in deforming the car and shattering it to pieces but a ghost with almost zero matter will not result in audible wreckage and the matters may have high elasticity where it can reform instantaneously.



Try blowing at the drape and apply the same breath blowing at a wall. Any wreckage?



When I walked next to a carefully stacked card assuming no vibration there is still a displacement of air that causes the cards to fall.



It is indeed some invisible weightless gas particle. Don't under-estimate it because it can lift airplane and sent rockets to outerspace.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1251177672][quote author="green_cactus" date=1251175884][quote author="bkshopr" date=1251173919][quote author="green_cactus" date=1251173029]All I have to say is conservation of energy and conservation of momentum. This pretty much knocks down any of these ghost speculations.</blockquote>


????? Care to offer your analysis ? They are both unrelated to this subject.</blockquote>


They have everything to do with this subject - energy/momentum are both integral to moving something. You claim that a spirit has some very small non-zero mass. If that mass moves at any speed has to have momentum. Even a single particle of light has some momentum. When a "ghost" moves a drape there is an exchange in momentum and all of its components have to be accounted for. If your ghost is frictionless, and assuming that it was it that moved the drapes, it would have to fly out into the opposite direction at a tremendous rate (heavy drape small velocity, extremely light ghost huge velocity). I wonder what happens when it hits a wall at high speed???



The incense trick you mention is nothing new. Throughout cultures there have been countless ways of using a chaotic system to demonstrate some super-natural behavior. However, when a controlled environment is used all the "magic" disappears. A good example is the use of a dowsing rods, water stick and pendulums in the western world. People have been willing to shell out lots of money on unscrupulous charlatans with the promise of a precious resource (water). As long as there are gullible people, there is money to be made, I guess.</blockquote>


Good explanation. P=MV is a way to explain it. Momentum is based on mass and speed. Almost zero mass must have high speed to sustain momentum. May be ghosts do move at very high speed.



Because it has almost zero mass then when it run into a wall at high speed the force is virtually zero because the matter hitting a wall has no mass. Force is based on mass.



When a ghost crash into a wall unlike a car with mass where the damaging energy is absorbed in deforming the car and shattering it to pieces but a ghost with almost zero matter will not result in audible wreckage and the matters may have high elasticity where it can reform instantaneously.



Try blowing at the drape and apply the same breath blowing at a wall. Any wreckage?



When I walked next to a carefully stacked card assuming no vibration there is still a displacement of air that causes the cards to fall.</blockquote>


Let's say you walk next to a house of cards. I'm assuming your are human and thus have a volume and fairly large density that will displace air as you move. You are denser and thus will display the air in your way causing turbulence that will knock down the cards. When you become a ghost and you lose that density (but for argument's sake you stay in the same shape), with close-to-zero mass and thus close-to-zero density you will be the one that gets displaces as the denser air moves around. For the BK-ghost to stay in place, it must be dense enough not to be blown around the house by any slight draft. Otherwise, you'll end up getting blown up the chimney together with all the cool air to cool down some pigeon's butt.
 
I hope bk is not going to pull the quantum mechanics card out and says that photon has no mass, and it can strike a surface at the speed of light, and relate that to how ghost can move move drapery.
 
We are all good analysts. When Star Trek aired in 1966 we thought the wireless phone and laser guns were just fantasy props. The final frontier could be outer space as well as our inner soul. We are still researching the human body's complexity that current science still has limitation in fully understand it.



Much of our communication technology is now all invisible. It would be just a matter of time to understand the mysteries that we can't see or feel.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1251180490]We are all good analysts. When Star Trek aired in 1966 we thought the wireless phone and laser guns were just fantasy props. The final frontier could be outer space as well as our inner soul. We are still researching the human body's complexity that current science still has limitation in fully understand it.



Much of our communication technology is now all invisible. It would be just a matter of time to understand the mysteries that we can't see or feel.</blockquote>


I was expecting flying cars in the year 2000 - so much for science fiction.
 
I have set my dream much lower. We have made tremendous progress in technology but the homes we all live in are built from the same 2x4s that the pilgrims built their houses with. House framing has not changed for the last 300+ years and only got uglier with the garages.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1251182160][quote author="bkshopr" date=1251180490]We are all good analysts. When Star Trek aired in 1966 we thought the wireless phone and laser guns were just fantasy props. The final frontier could be outer space as well as our inner soul. We are still researching the human body's complexity that current science still has limitation in fully understand it.



Much of our communication technology is now all invisible. It would be just a matter of time to understand the mysteries that we can't see or feel.</blockquote>


I was expecting flying cars in the year 2000 - so much for science fiction.</blockquote>
<a href="http://www.moller.com/">http://www.moller.com/</a>



I just want my cell phone to work wherever I go.
 
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