Govt. to REQUIRE adults to carry Health care insurance

[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247706276][quote author="stepping_up" date=1247694696]I kept thinking TR was EvaL when I saw the avitar... always loved that one and am so glad to see her back.</blockquote>


I haven't quite gotten used to it either.</blockquote>


Eva needs a new avatar, of, well, Eva....



<img src="http://www.antgoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/wall_e_eve-480x300.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1247196085]The current system is corrupt and abusive. The premise is before you die we get all your money. Then you go BK and we are satisfied. The bloated Health Care industry will get slain

and destroyed as it serves nobody and just gets between Doctors and Patients. I am going to dance when they become extinct.



After having Blue Cross for over a decade. Our premiums at work became more costly than the building. So I decided to just take the chance and cancelled the insurance in the downturn.

<strong>We just could no longer afford it. </strong>We are down to 3 employees including myself. Well low and behold I get a hernia at work. Go to my Dr. and he refers me to Mission Surgery. These people want like $ 30,000.00 to fix my Hernia as an InPatient. After shopping around I find a Doctor

in Vegas that just does Hernia`s. This guy is great. Does a super job and its only $ 6,000.00 as an outpatient. Somehow the system needs to eliminate the middle man like Kaiser and Blue Cross who serve nobody but their own greed. Its inflated the costs beyond all reason.

Kind of reminds me of House Prices. All of these Health Car Companies will go the same way

as CountryWide in the coming year. And the Ludites that dont support change can just watch and whine.</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/6732/">How much Cash do you have in your pocket?</a>



[quote author="bltserv" date=1258613042]I always have about $ 300 on me. Its so much easier than using cards for every little thing.

I go crazy when I watch somebody charge a $ 1.85 cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Or buy $ 20.00 worth of Groceries with a card and get $ 40.00 cash back.



About once a week I will go to the bank and grab 3 or 4 hundred dollar bills.

Or if I have a slug of cash from a Vegas trip. Just bleed it off slowly.

(Leaving next Thursday for Thanksgiving in Vegas with GF)



Since I do take a few customers out on occasion. Normally I will use the company credit card.

But I will use cash on most all other occasions. Especially for tips. Servers and bartenders love cash.



Part of having adult children too. "Dad can you float me $ 100.00 till payday ?"

I would rather give him some cash than have him live off his credit cards.

Damn kid has a higher credit score than me. Because I always have a Zero Balance on my cards and I have zero debt.



Screw keeping track of all those damn transactions. I call it "Petty Cash Withdrawl"</blockquote>


Health Insurance or Vegas both are a gamble I guess.
 
Pretty much all of life is a gamble.



Paying $ 800.00 a month for me personally is insane. And my business partner at 60.

For him and his wife its close to $ 1200.00 a month.



I will self insure until we get resonable Healthcare Costs.



I still think the Health Insurance bill will continue its way through the Senate and get passed in some form.

In a way it is Socialism. But capitalism without regulation and antitrust laws has given the Insurance Business

far too much power and money. To benifit off the ability to withold healthcare is ethically criminal.



Viva Las Vegas !!!
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1258616729]Pretty much all of life is a gamble.



Paying $ 800.00 a month for me personally is insane. And my business partner at 60.

For him and his wife its close to $ 1200.00 a month.



I will self insure until we get resonable Healthcare Costs.



I still think the Health Insurance bill will continue its way through the Senate and get passed in some form.

In a way it is Socialism. But capitalism without regulation and antitrust laws has given the Insurance Business

far too much power and money. To benifit off the ability to withold healthcare is ethically criminal.



Viva Las Vegas !!!</blockquote>


I <strong>bet </strong>you will be pissed off when the goverment REQUIRES you to carry insurance and it costs more then the $800 a month you are willing to pay now.
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1259044550][quote author="bltserv" date=1258616729]Pretty much all of life is a gamble.



Paying $ 800.00 a month for me personally is insane. And my business partner at 60.

For him and his wife its close to $ 1200.00 a month.



I will self insure until we get resonable Healthcare Costs.



I still think the Health Insurance bill will continue its way through the Senate and get passed in some form.

In a way it is Socialism. But capitalism without regulation and antitrust laws has given the Insurance Business

far too much power and money. To benifit off the ability to withold healthcare is ethically criminal.



Viva Las Vegas !!!</blockquote>


I <strong>bet </strong>you will be pissed off when the goverment REQUIRES you to carry insurance and it costs more then the $800 a month you are willing to pay now.</blockquote>


Nope. Cause it will never cost that much. Think more like about $ 150.00-$ 200.00 a month.

And in less than a decade I will be on Medicare anyway.



trrenter.

The Health Plan will pass and the United States will join the rest of the Modern World.

Get over it. Its a done deal. Its time for Health Care and Big Pharma to live like the rest of us.

In the Real World. Multi Billion Advertising campaigns and overpaid lobbyists. They have done so much

to keep costs down and help samll businesses like myself. NOT. Bloodsucking thieves deserve what they are going to get.



"Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered"



Personally I will miss all the Viagra Commercials 30 times a day. NOT.
 
<blockquote>Nope. Cause it will never cost that much. Think more like about $ 150.00-$ 200.00 a month.

And in less than a decade I will be on Medicare anyway. </blockquote>


LMAO. OMG that is funny. I almost spit my soda on my keyboard.



You are talking about what each of us will pay for supplemental insurance to cover what the government doesn't right?



When has the government ever taken on a program and actually cut costs.



You should take that one down to the improv tonight.



The syringe companies will start charging $800 per syringe like the toilet seat manufacturers and the hammer manufacturers did.



That is a laugh riot.
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1259049246]<blockquote>Nope. Cause it will never cost that much. Think more like about $ 150.00-$ 200.00 a month.

And in less than a decade I will be on Medicare anyway. </blockquote>The syringe companies will start charging $800 per syringe like the toilet seat manufacturers and the hammer manufacturers did.</blockquote>


You mean the same way the pharmaceutical companies are over-charging the government for prescription drugs? Oh wait!! Because of price negotiations they are actually paying substantially less - 41-53% of the average wholesale price according to a <a href="http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/64xx/doc6481/06-16-PrescriptDrug.pdf">CBO study</a>.
 
[quote author="trrenter" date=1247196185]<blockquote>On another forum I participate, a member lost his job because the company he worked for unexpectedly closed over the 4th of July. His supervisor?s wife was scheduled to have her breast cancer surgery on Monday. If she gets it, he?ll be one of these bankruptcy claims. The doctor won?t be paid, and he?ll be destitute. Happens all the time. </blockquote>


<strong>He can apply for Cobra and have the surgery covered.</strong> If I am not mistaken a pre existing condition will be covered under HIPPA if there hasn't been a lapse of insurance for 60 days or more.



In addition to that he may want to check to see if the insurance truly expires on 7/4 it may actually extend until the end of the month. I know at my company if you are employed on the first your insurance carries until the end of the month.



Edited to add.



<a href="http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/COBRA.html">Cobra Premium reduction</a>



There also is a premium reduction in place where you only have to pay 35%.</blockquote>


About 6 weeks before my last baby was due, the law firm I was working for closed abruptly. When the company closed, there was noone to get COBRA thru - the company no longer existed.



I am all for health reform. I think those who are against it only feel that way because they are looking out for #1. Because the data is obvious that reform is what is best for this country.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1247497067]I'm late to the game in this thread, and I will be honest... I don't have the time to read all the links. But, after poking around the <a href="http://www.abiworld.org/">ABI</a> site, <a href="http://www.buffalonews.com/149/story/729251.html">I did find this article</a>, and this point...



<em>The first nationwide study on medical causes of bankruptcy (released June 4 by Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University) found that <strong>62.1 percent</strong> of all bankruptcies filed in <strong>2007 were related to medical problems</strong>. This represents a <strong>50 percent increase since 2001</strong>.</em>



So in 2001 there were nearly twice as many BKs as 2007, but the medical reasons for BKs continued to increase. What am I missing here? Either I am missing the point, or really medical reasons are the main cause of BKs, at least for the increase in BKs.</blockquote>


I am so sorry, but I just do not see what this shite even has to do with if health reform is a good thing for this country and exactly what that reform should be. And here is why:



1. What if Canada's BK laws are totally different than ours - well, that could skew the stats.

2. What if Canada's welfare programs and unemployment programs are totally different than ours - well, that could skew the stats.

3. What if Canadian credit card companies are more willing to work with defaulters than US companies - well, that could skew the stats.

4. What if Canadian families are more willing to take in family members down on their luck - well, then that could skew the stats.

5. What if, What if, What if......



I think this debate over who filed more bankruptcies is just a load of crap, and a tangent that does nothing to help solve our extensive problems.
 
[quote author="gypsyuma" date=1259050710]Because the data is obvious that reform is what is best for this country.</blockquote>


What farking data? Please, show me something that hasn't been skewed, twisted, tortured, or just plain made up to fit one view or another when it comes to health care.



And take that "looking out for #1" crap and shove it. If you can't figure out that both sides are arguing for what they think is in the best interests of the country, then you aren't intelligent enough to have a qualified opinion on the matter. I'm tired of people playing the "you are just selfish" card when discussing whether the Federal Government should begin dictating what medical treatment we can and can not have; especially when many of those same people would be marching on Washington if that decision was extended to abortion. If you are under the impression that this is "health care reform" you are ignoring the largest part of the government's role in the proposed changes, which is nationalizing 1/6th of the economy. If you are under the impression that this is "health insurance reform" you are ignoring the other part of the government's role, which is that they will PUT YOU IN JAIL if you don't buy into their new plan, on top of the taxes they will need to collect to cover those who are deemed to poor to pay.



So, to recap... show me the numbers that prove mandatory participation in government-run health care is better for the country in the long-term, both physically and financially, when they have to force people to participate under threat of imprisonment, have to raise taxes to cover the indigent/poor/lower class people, and have to ration care based on objective standards that have less to do with "we, the people" than it does with reducing costs. There are completely rational options that make the needed changes without taking responsibility away from individuals and putting on the collective nation, yet all I hear from the left is "free health care for everyone".



Newsflash: There is no such thing as "free" healthcare if it is being run by the Federal government.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1259053645]If you are under the impression that this is "health insurance reform" you are ignoring the other part of the government's role, which is that they will PUT YOU IN JAIL if you don't buy into their new plan, on top of the taxes they will need to collect to cover those who are deemed to poor to pay.</blockquote>


You certainly have a source to backup your claim of what sounds like mandatory jail time for not being covered. The bill as of 10/19/2009 (S.1796) states:



<em>(a) REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN ESSENTIAL HEALTH BENEFITS COVERAGE. -- If an individual is an applicable individual for any month beginning after June 30, 2013, the individual is required to be covered by essential health benefits coverage for such month.



(b) IMPOSITION OF TAX. --



(1) IN GENERAL. -- If an applicable individual fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1 or more months during any calendar year beginning after 2013, then, except as provided in subsection (d), there is hereby <strong>imposed a tax</strong> with respect to the individual in the amount determined under subsection (c).



(1) WAIVER OF CRIMINAL AND CIVIL PENALTIES AND INTEREST. -- In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any tax imposed by this section --



(A) such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure, and



(B) no penalty, addition to tax, or interest shall be imposed with respect to such failure or such tax.</em>
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1259058808][quote author="Nude" date=1259053645]If you are under the impression that this is "health insurance reform" you are ignoring the other part of the government's role, which is that they will PUT YOU IN JAIL if you don't buy into their new plan, on top of the taxes they will need to collect to cover those who are deemed to poor to pay.</blockquote>


You certainly have a source to backup your claim of what sounds like mandatory jail time for not being covered. The bill as of 10/19/2009 (S.1796) states:

</blockquote>


Tell me, why did Wesley Snipes go to jail?
 
The whole premise is retarded.



Required to carry health care insurance? I swear, it's like being required to breathe if you want to live!
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247834134][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1247706276][quote author="stepping_up" date=1247694696]I kept thinking TR was EvaL when I saw the avitar... always loved that one and am so glad to see her back.</blockquote>


I haven't quite gotten used to it either.</blockquote>


Eva needs a new avatar, of, well, Eva....



<img src="http://www.antgoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/wall_e_eve-480x300.jpg" alt="" /></blockquote>


I don't know how I missed this. Thanks No_Vas. I will update my avatar in the next few days.





I can't get too worked up about having to carry health insurance. Everyone in Cali is required to carry auto insurance. The premiums for that are completely out of pocket for me, but it is something I would have purchased anyway - and it hasn't brought Western Civilization, or even California, to its knees. It's really odd to be in a situation where you want to purchase something, but can't, especially something far more critical to one's personal well-being as health insurance.



<em>*Immediately regrets jumping into the quicksand of the topic.*</em>
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1259065263]The whole premise is retarded.



Required to carry health care insurance? I swear, it's like being required to breathe if you want to live!</blockquote>


Except that it's not. Not carrying insurance won't kill you. The human civilization as a whole has managed to go on for thousands of years without health insurance. The only thing health insurance does is protect you from financial ruin if you get sick with something more serious than fluids and rest can cure. People with absolutely no money still get health care, so do poorer people, and so do illegal immigrants for that matter. So what it really boils down to is one side arguing for everyone else to chip in for health care, rather than paying for it themselves. The Democrats have managed to convince people that they have a"right" to be treated by a doctor, a right to be cared for in a hospital, and a right to medications to make them better... despite the complete absence of any such right in the Constitution or ANY evolution of such (inate medical knowledge, instinctual understanding of medicinal herbs, etc.) in the entirety of <em>homo sapiens</em>.



You might as well claim a right to cable T.V., electricity, and air conditioning.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1259059715][quote author="green_cactus" date=1259058808][quote author="Nude" date=1259053645]If you are under the impression that this is "health insurance reform" you are ignoring the other part of the government's role, which is that they will PUT YOU IN JAIL if you don't buy into their new plan, on top of the taxes they will need to collect to cover those who are deemed to poor to pay.</blockquote>


You certainly have a source to backup your claim of what sounds like mandatory jail time for not being covered. The bill as of 10/19/2009 (S.1796) states:

</blockquote>


Tell me, why did Wesley Snipes go to jail?</blockquote>


The language of the bill has been modified to not include jail time for failure of paying the tax. Wesley Snipes got nothing to do with this.



The irony in your hypothetical, though, is that you'd get free health care in jail. I guess at the end of the day the government WILL get their way of you being covered. In any case, it's a fallacy that you'd get jail time so it's a non issue.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1259067089]

I can't get too worked up about having to carry health insurance. Everyone in Cali is required to carry auto insurance. The premiums for that are completely out of pocket for me, but it is something I would have purchased anyway - and it hasn't brought Western Civilization, or even California, to its knees. It's really odd to be in a situation where you want to purchase something, but can't, especially something far more critical to one's personal well-being as health insurance.



<em>*Immediately regrets jumping into the quicksand of the topic.*</em></blockquote>


Mandatory auto insurance is to protect other drivers from financial ruin in an accident you may cause. You are not required to have it if you don't own a car and don't have a driver's license. You can get auto insurance that does nothing for you, if you are injured in an accident you cause. You have a choice of insurers and if you are broke, you can even qualify for a state-mandated low cost option, with stringent income requirements. Make more than the limit and you have to pay the going rate. No public option at all.



All of this is completely different than insuring your own health against [strike]catastrophic[/strike]... make that <strong>routine</strong> health care costs buy purchasing a private health plan that covers you for more than just the healthcare equivalent of an <em>"accident"</em>.
 
[quote author="green_cactus" date=1259050652][quote author="trrenter" date=1259049246]<blockquote>Nope. Cause it will never cost that much. Think more like about $ 150.00-$ 200.00 a month.

And in less than a decade I will be on Medicare anyway. </blockquote>The syringe companies will start charging $800 per syringe like the toilet seat manufacturers and the hammer manufacturers did.</blockquote>


You mean the same way the pharmaceutical companies are over-charging the government for prescription drugs? Oh wait!! Because of price negotiations they are actually paying substantially less - 41-53% of the average wholesale price according to a <a href="http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/64xx/doc6481/06-16-PrescriptDrug.pdf">CBO study</a>.</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/health/policy/06insure.html">White House Affirms Deal on Drug Cost </a>



<strong>Pressed by industry lobbyists, White House officials on Wednesday assured drug makers that the administration stood by a behind-the-scenes deal to block any Congressional effort to extract cost savings from them beyond an agreed-upon $80 billion</strong>



The negotiating already took place. LOL. Back us and we will not make you cut your prices.
 
[quote author="Nude" date=1259067699][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1259065263]The whole premise is retarded.



Required to carry health care insurance? I swear, it's like being required to breathe if you want to live!</blockquote>


Except that it's not. Not carrying insurance won't kill you. The human civilization as a whole has managed to go on for thousands of years without health insurance. The only thing health insurance does is protect you from financial ruin if you get sick with something more serious than fluids and rest can cure. </blockquote>


So, as long as I'm willing to be broke, irresponsible, and not pay my obligations I'm free to show up at the emergency room and mooch off the system with impunity. Got it.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1259068891][quote author="Nude" date=1259067699][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1259065263]The whole premise is retarded.



Required to carry health care insurance? I swear, it's like being required to breathe if you want to live!</blockquote>


Except that it's not. Not carrying insurance won't kill you. The human civilization as a whole has managed to go on for thousands of years without health insurance. The only thing health insurance does is protect you from financial ruin if you get sick with something more serious than fluids and rest can cure. </blockquote>


So, as long as I'm willing to be broke, irresponsible, and not pay my obligations I'm free to show up at the emergency room and mooch off the system with impunity. Got it.</blockquote>


As opposed to showing up at my bank and just taking what you need from my account, hmm? Well, I guess is it easier when you have the IRS to just take it, but that doesn't change the fact that you are taking my money to pay for your meds, your doc visit, and your hospital visit.
 
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