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Oscar_IHB
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Have you considered what effect the effort to force the COMEX to run out of physical gold has had on the prices?
Gold
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I think a concerted effort that results in a mere $100 move is a waste of time. As you have pointed out, Sovereign banks can flood the physical markey anytime they want. Still, it might explain the *weak move north.
*weak= relative to a full-fledged inflation-induced gold rush
Graphix, GLD is a fool's way to hold gold and wouldn't trust it one bit. I, personally, do not hold any GLD as I know that Gold can be leased and the high probability of third party risks. You are also taxed at the long term gains rate of 28% assuming that GLD does not default. I doubt any gold would really be there once the serious crap hits the fan in the U.S. economy. I would stay away from GLD and buy yourself the real gold bullions.
First of all, you are correct. GLD is considered a collectible. But unless you are looking at leaps instead of puts, why does the long term capital gains rate even matter?
There are reasons to hold real gold, and there are reasons to hold paper gold. From my perspective, you own paper gold for trades and real gold for security. Of course physical gold can not be shorted, so if you are interested in the downside, paper gold is the only way to go.
Good God, Don't put that kind of presure on me.
Some clients use comex some calls and puts on GLD and I know everyone hates them here but I do day trade SMN and DZZ. Not for the feint of heart so be careful out there. My people are mostly pros so they understand the risks involved.
While it's always a mistake to try to apply logic to the law, I believe the logic behind the tax treatment is based on the fact that you are buying fractional ownership of a pile of gold. Therefore, even though it is "paper" gold, you do actually own the real thing.
Has he covered his short on Allied Capital?
morekaos_IHB
New member
$875 short looks pretty good now. $822 dow $33 bones
freedomCM_IHB
New member
So do you think that gold and platinum prices are going to go back down in the next few weeks?
O
Oscar_IHB
Guest
Oscar said:
I think a concerted effort that results in a mere $100 move is a waste of time. As you have pointed out, Sovereign banks can flood the physical markey anytime they want. Still, it might explain the *weak move north.
*weak= relative to a full-fledged inflation-induced gold rush
morekaos_IHB
New member
$897 is catching my attention.
morekaos_IHB
New member
Nope, but I am short again at $912
graphrix_IHB
New member
I have a tax question about gold and the ETF GLD from an article I read in the WSJ yesterday. I will cite it if you want, but I don't have the time to look it up at the moment. Anyway, it said the IRS treats gold as a collectible, including the ETF GLD since they actually own physical gold, and that you are taxed at the collectible long term cap gains rate of 28% rather than the normal long term cap gains rate. Awgee, what's up with that?
FYI, I am looking at the puts on GLD, but they haven't come down that much in price yet. I don't take morekaos' words lightly, and when he speaks, I try to follow what he says.
FYI, I am looking at the puts on GLD, but they haven't come down that much in price yet. I don't take morekaos' words lightly, and when he speaks, I try to follow what he says.
PANDA_IHB
New member
graphrix said:
Graphix, GLD is a fool's way to hold gold and wouldn't trust it one bit. I, personally, do not hold any GLD as I know that Gold can be leased and the high probability of third party risks. You are also taxed at the long term gains rate of 28% assuming that GLD does not default. I doubt any gold would really be there once the serious crap hits the fan in the U.S. economy. I would stay away from GLD and buy yourself the real gold bullions.
graphrix said:
First of all, you are correct. GLD is considered a collectible. But unless you are looking at leaps instead of puts, why does the long term capital gains rate even matter?
There are reasons to hold real gold, and there are reasons to hold paper gold. From my perspective, you own paper gold for trades and real gold for security. Of course physical gold can not be shorted, so if you are interested in the downside, paper gold is the only way to go.
morekaos_IHB
New member
graphrix said:
Good God, Don't put that kind of presure on me.
Daedalus_IHB
New member
If you trade physical gold, how does the IRS know if you fail to report profits or if you're lying about your losses?
morekaos_IHB
New member
awgee said:
Some clients use comex some calls and puts on GLD and I know everyone hates them here but I do day trade SMN and DZZ. Not for the feint of heart so be careful out there. My people are mostly pros so they understand the risks involved.
Daedalus_IHB
New member
Thanks Awgee. I think that's what I was looking for.awgee said:
graphrix_IHB
New member
Thanks everyone for all the replies.
Now let me clarify. I saw the WSJ article, and thought that it was strange that an ETF of gold would be taxed the same way as actually buying and selling gold. I wasn't asking for myself, because if I trade options on it, it would be irrelevant since it will be a very short term trade. If I were to buy gold, I would buy the physical stuff, and technically I still am holding some. I wouldn't be as paranoid about GLD as Panda is, but if you can buy the real deal it is better. But, if you want to make a trade GLD is a much easier way to do it.
Now let me clarify. I saw the WSJ article, and thought that it was strange that an ETF of gold would be taxed the same way as actually buying and selling gold. I wasn't asking for myself, because if I trade options on it, it would be irrelevant since it will be a very short term trade. If I were to buy gold, I would buy the physical stuff, and technically I still am holding some. I wouldn't be as paranoid about GLD as Panda is, but if you can buy the real deal it is better. But, if you want to make a trade GLD is a much easier way to do it.
graphrix said:
While it's always a mistake to try to apply logic to the law, I believe the logic behind the tax treatment is based on the fact that you are buying fractional ownership of a pile of gold. Therefore, even though it is "paper" gold, you do actually own the real thing.
Hormiguero_IHB
New member
544 chapter 2 'capital assets' and code sec 408(m)(3)(b) (IRAs) seem pretty straightforward.
I'm NOT a professional, this is NOT professional advice NOR a recommendation of any kind of action.
posting about things like law, tax, medicine, etc, without backing it up is more than a little irresponsible IMO. it's also a little odd to do it on a site devoted to chronicling the wreckage when people make decisions based on false assumptions.
I'm NOT a professional, this is NOT professional advice NOR a recommendation of any kind of action.
posting about things like law, tax, medicine, etc, without backing it up is more than a little irresponsible IMO. it's also a little odd to do it on a site devoted to chronicling the wreckage when people make decisions based on false assumptions.
ukyo116_IHB
New member
awgee said:
Has he covered his short on Allied Capital?
upperlowerclass_IHB
New member
TO THE MOOONN!!