God?

[Mety]

Irvinecommuter,

Since now you finally said you are not sure about this 6-day creation, let's just move on for now. Again I hope you will believe one day. Thanks for being honest finally. But like you said, if you really really sincerely prayed if you should take 6-day concept literally, God will answer you. Let's discuss again about this then.

And what if I said that I have and I am firm in the belief that Genesis is not to be read literally?

And gospel deals with sin and repentance.  I didn't even know if that was called shock therapy concept. I don't agree that is a shock therapy. Although Jesus shocked many if not all of the people He met by first His authoritative speech, and more than the first, His message. You said, introduce them to Jesus? Well how do we introduce? Do we just say, "Hey, there is this Jesus I believe, you should check Him out. Follow instagram." Is this the proper way? Ok, I was being a little sarcastic with this example, but seriously, what context would there have to be to introduce Jesus? It's that He died for us because of OUR SIN and more importantly He ROSE AGIAN from the dead concurring the curse everyone can't escape from. You said Jesus came in love and rightly so He did. And what better way to display that but dying on the cross for you?

Here is a good way to do it...get to know the person.  Get to know what that person is about...have a relationship with him or her.  Talk about your own journey and how Jesus has helped you.  Ask him or her about any concerns or issues he or she says.  Invite them to Church consistently and without preconceptions or instructions.  Let God/Jesus do the work.

Jesus started speaking in parables from a certain point when Pharisees kept displaying un-willingness to repent. And those parables were "condemnation" to them believe or not. Those were not nice stories to attract people with soft voice.
"This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." Matthew 13:13
Jesus is quoting OT which is being fulfilled that those hard hearted Jews will NOT be saved until they repent.
But you're right. He did love His disciples though they still were not fully loving Him back for He said couple verse later,
"But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear." Matthew 13:16

Yeah, maybe He wasn't screaming and yelling at them. But why do you think I am? I might be talking in a total chill mood. 

He spoke in parables because that's how things were taught and passed on in those days. Most of the masses were not educated and learned through parables relating to their daily lives.  The parables were not for the pharisees or even the disciples...they were for the masses and the unbelievers.  Jesus took the time and effort to get to know individuals and their pain and spoke to them in their language.  He hung out with them without condition, he healed them without making them jump through hoops or pay money. 

God is Love...not condemnation.  He wants a relationship with all of his children...a deep and personal relationship.  That does not start with chastisement or rejection of those that he loves.

If you end up with that Genesis is not to be taken literally then let me know. But please spend some time praying and asking God before you come to that conclusion. Also I urge you to read, even just the 1st chapter of Genesis a lot with asking for guidance of the Holy Spirit that you would undertand His words correctly. I look forward to hear back on this topic later.

It seems like you might have talent/gift or whatever you want to call with hospitality. You seem to care a lot on relationships with others and you should keep doing that with brothers and even reach out to non-believers. But also know that Jesus commanded us before He was taken up to heaven to make disciples and teach them.
?Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age." - Matthew 28:19-20

For Jesus speaking in parables, is that how you learned from church or your own idea after studying the time of that era? I?ve stated with Bible verses to translate the meaning and you seem to not really get it or not care for it. Speaking in parables was technically ?judgement? on Pharisees. No one understood His parables and He always explained to His disciples after to let them know what Kingdom of God is like. There are other parables used not as judgement also, but the main point of Him using was to fulfill the OT?s prophesying about Jews of thise who didn?t accept Jesus. I?ve said this before, but almost all those who were healed and Jesus hung out with didn?t really believe Jesus. They only cared about the food He was giving and interested in miracles. Some were genuine, but only about 120 people were left though after Peter received the Holy Spirit and preached, thousnds repented and came to God.

God is love, but God also brings jugdement. That is how we distinguish good and evil.

 

[Mety]

BTW:

I don't think any of us are trying to change the other's mind, we are just trying to understand what the other is thinking and why.

Just like there are different churches for different people, there are different ways people walk with God. While you may think yours is the only correct way as stated in the Bible, others may see either the Bible saying something similar but not exactly the same.

I still believe that one of the best ways to show how much you love God is to love people.

1 John 4:7-8

(and yes, despite my disagreements with eyephone I do have love for him and don't want him to leave TI like he thinks I do, I just want him to stop hating on other members )

You are correct and I believe Irvinecommuter also might be in the same page with you in terms of how we should love one another especially among Christian brothers. I'm quoting in the same chapter you mentioned above,
"If anyone says, ?I love God,? and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother." - 1 John 4:20-21

So How do we love in Christ? What does it mean to love someone? Is it by donating much money to the poor? Is it by having relationship with someone rejected? Is it by going to other countries and serve in that region for a certain amount or even a life time? All these could be act of love and God bless those people who's done these, but these could also be done by someone who completely rejects Christ. The Apostle Paul says in his letter before he says the infamous love verses,
"If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing." - 1 Corinthians 13:3

To see what true love is, we must reference from Christ Himself to learn correctly of what it means to love one another in Christ as Jesus truly displayed real love for us. We can see how He loved us first so we can love one another as a result. God showed His love by many things, but clearly showed the world by sending His one and only Son. And The Son, Jesus, showed us how He loves us by obeying the Father, dying on the cross for our sins. And if only it wasn't enough for us to realize what His love meant, He also told the disciples (also so that we have that in The Bible) before He was crucified,
?This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:12-13

And the Christian message is not done here. If Jesus just died for us and that was it, it doesn't really do much since there are some people brave enough to die for others. Like some of us husbands would die for our wives and children. The fire fighters are always risking their lives to save others. We hear stories of someone dying by rescuing others in the news. Then again, these all could be done by someone who doesn't believe in Christ. (Also the main difference between them and Jesus would be that He was without sin to begin with so His sacrifice was a total different kind, but without getting all technical, I'm just illustrating what we see as a bravery in our lives so we can at least compare.) Those are very honorable acts, but it doesn't contain fully what it means to love one another in Christ. Jesus not only died for us but also ROSE from the dead. He concurred sin and death. That is the full message of LOVE. And those who have this good news must also proclaim that message to others. This is what it means to love. Preach the gospel(good news) and always remain thankful together no matter what the circumstances are because we have no fear in "sin and death" anymore.

When you find some good eatery place, you would want to share that with loved ones and would love to tell them about the place. If you've truly found the greatest love which concurs sin and death, you would definitely want to tell everyone but also you would surely 100% tell your loved ones. This is what it needs to be done in church. This is what peaching the gospel means. This is what it means to love one another. Keep reminding of this love without getting swayed by all kinds of teachings and technics and programs to draw people's attentions. The one and only thing that needs to be done in church is love and that love is displayed by preaching the gospel. There are people out there who masters at relationships. There are people who can give you counseling and listen to you problems. But there is NO ONE who died and rose from the dead for you except Jesus Christ who is the true master of love, the head of church. On that foundation, we can have relationships, get to know each other, stay true in faith as we encourage one another with this gospel message.

IHO and Irvinecommuter pointed some people might say they love God but fail to love others. The 1 John verses I've quoted above says that's impossible. And I agree that there are times we first get to know people and have relationships before we present the gospel as every case and scenario is different. But I'm writing the basic foundation the standard we should have as Christians to love one another. While I believe if someone really really loves God, that person will surely love others, I also believe loving someone is displayed when they preach the gospel. I?m not encouraging Christians to neglect having relationships and helping others. That would not be something a genuine Christian would ignore. Reaching out is great, but you must first proclaim the full message of gospel. And that contains sin, death, Christ?s suffering and His resurrection. Preach the gospel then let God do the work. He will take care of the rest to those people who heard the gospel.

 

[panda]

Mety,
You really have a gift of evangelism. Seriously. I get spiritually lifted reading your posts. Thank you for taking the time to care enough to write these posts.

Panda

 

[Mety]

Mety,
You really have a gift of evangelism. Seriously. I get spiritually lifted reading your posts. Thank you for taking the time to care enough to write these posts.

Panda

Panda,

I don't know if I have a gift of evangelism. I'm just presenting the gospel as all Christians should, but it's great to know you are spiritually lifted. I appreciate your feedback.

I'm not too comfortable with giving my testimony since it could hinder God and present me more in a sense, but here is my story of walk with God so far, hoping it will only glorify Jesus.



I was born in a Christian family and as far as I remember I started going to church since elementary school. There were many pastors and teachers, some taught about Jesus and some uplifting messages which I liked. I was officially introduced to believe in Jesus when I was 7th grade by one of the small group teachers and for some reason, I just believed without any doubts. I've been reading The Bible since then, about one chapter a day, sometimes more, but I was doing it because I felt like God would punish me if I were to skip a day. This was a wrong motivation though I'm sure God was using this time for me to get familiarize with His words.

I was able to serve in music ministry from college years as all my friends were in that ministry so I was very involved in that for 10+ years. But from the time I was about 30, I  started to realize (which I believe The Holy Spirit gave that conviction) that I've been involved in the ministry only because all my friends were there and I loved music. Yes, I've read the entire Bible couple times by then and all, but I never really fully knew what Jesus has done when He walked on earth 2000 years ago except He died for me. I've decided to focus on His words to know God more. I felt like I needed to know who God was/is more than just the broad picture.

More and more I was reading, I could understand the role of The Holy Spirit was to guide me to understand His words correctly. There are many people who read the bible without actually believing but to use as for their own purposes, without the guidance of the Spirit. I came to believe only The Holy Spirit can give us the true meaning and interpretation of the scripture correctly. And my part was only to "ask." Then the Bible was actually pretty clear and simple to understand. There are no hidden meanings and codes to break as some scholars have accused.

The Old Testament and The New Testament were all aligning perfectly with Jesus Christ, The Son of God. OT was the prophesying of Jesus and NT was the fulfillment of Jesus. From the creation of the world, how people have brought sin into this world, then God giving The Laws, sending the prophets, sending His Son finally, and the concurring of sin with His resurrection were all so amazing acts of Him written throughout. With Jesus' explanation of Kingdom of God from OT and living as a living sacrifice were all making sense then. Now with humble and trembling fear, but also with rejoicing heart, I with many other genuine believers eagerly wait for Him to come back as He said He will for then He will rule over us in His perfect complete Kingdom of God. If I were asked when did I meet Christ, this would be my true moment I've met Christ. I realized of my sin, how there was nothing good in me, and repented of my entire life. I realized I was sentenced with death because of my sin, but Christ died in place of me so that I could live forever with Him. Yes, God saved me from even before I was born or even before the creation of the world, but He thankfully gave me a chance for me to realize after I've lived only about 30 years. Only by reading and knowing His words, it all made sense both spiritually and logically.

From our sinful nature, we tend to take His words from our perspective and distort the meanings and start questioning. I think we all deal with that phase. But only by the Spirit if we ask, God's perspective is displayed when reading His word. It's full of love and forgiveness despite our sins and betrayals on God. I mean He is literally waiting 2000+ years (more years if we include OT) for the humanity to come back to God and not perish. What kind of love is this? And Him giving us this beautiful thing called, "faith" is just a magnificent amount of His patience to us.

I think we as more smart, developed, and logical than previous generations, are not excused with a reason, brain-washed. We at certain point all have the responsibility to come to an honest conclusion to have faith or not. God will meet you if you are really honestly seeking God. Even from my wrong motivations and selfish reasons of using church as my playground with friends, God still came and convicted me to know Him with all my heart, soul, and mind. I can only say this is the work of The Holy Spirit.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

BTW:

I don't think any of us are trying to change the other's mind, we are just trying to understand what the other is thinking and why.

Just like there are different churches for different people, there are different ways people walk with God. While you may think yours is the only correct way as stated in the Bible, others may see either the Bible saying something similar but not exactly the same.

I still believe that one of the best ways to show how much you love God is to love people.

1 John 4:7-8

(and yes, despite my disagreements with eyephone I do have love for him and don't want him to leave TI like he thinks I do, I just want him to stop hating on other members )

You are correct and I believe Irvinecommuter also might be in the same page with you in terms of how we should love one another especially among Christian brothers. I'm quoting in the same chapter you mentioned above,
"If anyone says, ?I love God,? and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother." - 1 John 4:20-21

So How do we love in Christ? What does it mean to love someone? Is it by donating much money to the poor? Is it by having relationship with someone rejected? Is it by going to other countries and serve in that region for a certain amount or even a life time? All these could be act of love and God bless those people who's done these, but these could also be done by someone who completely rejects Christ. The Apostle Paul says in his letter before he says the infamous love verses,
"If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing." - 1 Corinthians 13:3

To see what true love is, we must reference from Christ Himself to learn correctly of what it means to love one another in Christ as Jesus truly displayed real love for us. We can see how He loved us first so we can love one another as a result. God showed His love by many things, but clearly showed the world by sending His one and only Son. And The Son, Jesus, showed us how He loves us by obeying the Father, dying on the cross for our sins. And if only it wasn't enough for us to realize what His love meant, He also told the disciples (also so that we have that in The Bible) before He was crucified,
?This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:12-13

And the Christian message is not done here. If Jesus just died for us and that was it, it doesn't really do much since there are some people brave enough to die for others. Like some of us husbands would die for our wives and children. The fire fighters are always risking their lives to save others. We hear stories of someone dying by rescuing others in the news. Then again, these all could be done by someone who doesn't believe in Christ. (Also the main difference between them and Jesus would be that He was without sin to begin with so His sacrifice was a total different kind, but without getting all technical, I'm just illustrating what we see as a bravery in our lives so we can at least compare.) Those are very honorable acts, but it doesn't contain fully what it means to love one another in Christ. Jesus not only died for us but also ROSE from the dead. He concurred sin and death. That is the full message of LOVE. And those who have this good news must also proclaim that message to others. This is what it means to love. Preach the gospel(good news) and always remain thankful together no matter what the circumstances are because we have no fear in "sin and death" anymore.

When you find some good eatery place, you would want to share that with loved ones and would love to tell them about the place. If you've truly found the greatest love which concurs sin and death, you would definitely want to tell everyone but also you would surely 100% tell your loved ones. This is what it needs to be done in church. This is what peaching the gospel means. This is what it means to love one another. Keep reminding of this love without getting swayed by all kinds of teachings and technics and programs to draw people's attentions. The one and only thing that needs to be done in church is love and that love is displayed by preaching the gospel. There are people out there who masters at relationships. There are people who can give you counseling and listen to you problems. But there is NO ONE who died and rose from the dead for you except Jesus Christ who is the true master of love, the head of church. On that foundation, we can have relationships, get to know each other, stay true in faith as we encourage one another with this gospel message.

IHO and Irvinecommuter pointed some people might say they love God but fail to love others. The 1 John verses I've quoted above says that's impossible. And I agree that there are times we first get to know people and have relationships before we present the gospel as every case and scenario is different. But I'm writing the basic foundation the standard we should have as Christians to love one another. While I believe if someone really really loves God, that person will surely love others, I also believe loving someone is displayed when they preach the gospel. I?m not encouraging Christians to neglect having relationships and helping others. That would not be something a genuine Christian would ignore. Reaching out is great, but you must first proclaim the full message of gospel. And that contains sin, death, Christ?s suffering and His resurrection. Preach the gospel then let God do the work. He will take care of the rest to those people who heard the gospel.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Just like you say there are people who give up so many things for others but don't love God, there are people who can claim to love God but then are very greedy, judgmental and uncaring.

You should do both. But loving people is usually a great indicator of your love for God and something tangible that everyone can see and may seek to understand. Love for others is at the core of being a disciple, along with your love for God.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Just like you say there are people who give up so many things for others but don't love God, there are people who can claim to love God but then are very greedy, judgmental and uncaring.

You should do both. But loving people is usually a great indicator of your love for God and something tangible that everyone can see and may seek to understand. Love for others is at the core of being a disciple, along with your love for God.

I think the best way you can show that you love God is that you love people, friends and enemies.  It's why Jesus has not yet come back...it's to allow His believers to practice love and spread the word of God. 

God is love...love is the ultimate testament to being a follower of God.

 

[Mety]

BTW:

I don't think any of us are trying to change the other's mind, we are just trying to understand what the other is thinking and why.

Just like there are different churches for different people, there are different ways people walk with God. While you may think yours is the only correct way as stated in the Bible, others may see either the Bible saying something similar but not exactly the same.

I still believe that one of the best ways to show how much you love God is to love people.

1 John 4:7-8

(and yes, despite my disagreements with eyephone I do have love for him and don't want him to leave TI like he thinks I do, I just want him to stop hating on other members )

You are correct and I believe Irvinecommuter also might be in the same page with you in terms of how we should love one another especially among Christian brothers. I'm quoting in the same chapter you mentioned above,
"If anyone says, ?I love God,? and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother." - 1 John 4:20-21

So How do we love in Christ? What does it mean to love someone? Is it by donating much money to the poor? Is it by having relationship with someone rejected? Is it by going to other countries and serve in that region for a certain amount or even a life time? All these could be act of love and God bless those people who's done these, but these could also be done by someone who completely rejects Christ. The Apostle Paul says in his letter before he says the infamous love verses,
"If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing." - 1 Corinthians 13:3

To see what true love is, we must reference from Christ Himself to learn correctly of what it means to love one another in Christ as Jesus truly displayed real love for us. We can see how He loved us first so we can love one another as a result. God showed His love by many things, but clearly showed the world by sending His one and only Son. And The Son, Jesus, showed us how He loves us by obeying the Father, dying on the cross for our sins. And if only it wasn't enough for us to realize what His love meant, He also told the disciples (also so that we have that in The Bible) before He was crucified,
?This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:12-13

And the Christian message is not done here. If Jesus just died for us and that was it, it doesn't really do much since there are some people brave enough to die for others. Like some of us husbands would die for our wives and children. The fire fighters are always risking their lives to save others. We hear stories of someone dying by rescuing others in the news. Then again, these all could be done by someone who doesn't believe in Christ. (Also the main difference between them and Jesus would be that He was without sin to begin with so His sacrifice was a total different kind, but without getting all technical, I'm just illustrating what we see as a bravery in our lives so we can at least compare.) Those are very honorable acts, but it doesn't contain fully what it means to love one another in Christ. Jesus not only died for us but also ROSE from the dead. He concurred sin and death. That is the full message of LOVE. And those who have this good news must also proclaim that message to others. This is what it means to love. Preach the gospel(good news) and always remain thankful together no matter what the circumstances are because we have no fear in "sin and death" anymore.

When you find some good eatery place, you would want to share that with loved ones and would love to tell them about the place. If you've truly found the greatest love which concurs sin and death, you would definitely want to tell everyone but also you would surely 100% tell your loved ones. This is what it needs to be done in church. This is what peaching the gospel means. This is what it means to love one another. Keep reminding of this love without getting swayed by all kinds of teachings and technics and programs to draw people's attentions. The one and only thing that needs to be done in church is love and that love is displayed by preaching the gospel. There are people out there who masters at relationships. There are people who can give you counseling and listen to you problems. But there is NO ONE who died and rose from the dead for you except Jesus Christ who is the true master of love, the head of church. On that foundation, we can have relationships, get to know each other, stay true in faith as we encourage one another with this gospel message.

IHO and Irvinecommuter pointed some people might say they love God but fail to love others. The 1 John verses I've quoted above says that's impossible. And I agree that there are times we first get to know people and have relationships before we present the gospel as every case and scenario is different. But I'm writing the basic foundation the standard we should have as Christians to love one another. While I believe if someone really really loves God, that person will surely love others, I also believe loving someone is displayed when they preach the gospel. I?m not encouraging Christians to neglect having relationships and helping others. That would not be something a genuine Christian would ignore. Reaching out is great, but you must first proclaim the full message of gospel. And that contains sin, death, Christ?s suffering and His resurrection. Preach the gospel then let God do the work. He will take care of the rest to those people who heard the gospel.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Just like you say there are people who give up so many things for others but don't love God, there are people who can claim to love God but then are very greedy, judgmental and uncaring.

You should do both. But loving people is usually a great indicator of your love for God and something tangible that everyone can see and may seek to understand. Love for others is at the core of being a disciple, along with your love for God.

You say you have love for eyephone even though you argue him back all the time. But let's say you really do have love for him and your reason of arguing is so that he will stop hating others, correct? If that's correct, why are you trying to stop him from hating others? Doesn't he have his freedom to hate others? Well, I can answer for you. It's because you want him to be more like Christ. Hating others is totally not what Christ would do for He commanded to love. But how do we know that? We only know because it's written in The Bible and whether you read it yourself or heard from someone, you know because it's written there. So we all want to love, but what that's really saying is we all want to be like Jesus Christ. And He fully showed His love on the cross and by His resurrection. This is true love we all are referencing at the end of the day. Doing nice acts doesn't full complete love. Love will produce those nice acts, not the other way around. So if you really want to love someone, present Christ though you already were doing in a way with eyephone. How can we talk about love without talking about Christ? How can we talk about Christ without talking about His crucifixion and resurrection?
(Now, whether if eyephone was hating other members or not is a total different discussion, but I've used as examples to respond to you. Sorry eyephone, for using your screen name often.)

And yes, there are people who claim to love God but then are very greedy, judgmental and uncaring. These are the ones who only "claim." I don't see them as real Christians. They are either lying to themselves or to others. They are either delusional or fake. As I've quoted 1 John 4:20-21, that issue is clear. There can only be two scenarios of lyings on those verses. Either they are lying on loving God or lying on hating brothers. True believers WILL love brothers. This again only can be done by The Holy Spirit and those who have The Holy Spirit are true Christians who love God.

As a side note, if we say someone is greedy, judgmental or uncaring, isn't that another form of judgment on our end also? Only God knows one's intention and heart. Even though that greedy looking person looks to be that way, we shouldn't be judgmental.

I think many times, I'm on the same page with you or with IC. But you guys keep thinking as if I'm saying all those things I wasn't really saying. I don't think I ever said I'm against loving others. I only said what I believe what it means to truly love others whereas the world might disagree since I'm referencing Christ.

 

[Mety]

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Just like you say there are people who give up so many things for others but don't love God, there are people who can claim to love God but then are very greedy, judgmental and uncaring.

You should do both. But loving people is usually a great indicator of your love for God and something tangible that everyone can see and may seek to understand. Love for others is at the core of being a disciple, along with your love for God.

I think the best way you can show that you love God is that you love people, friends and enemies.  It's why Jesus has not yet come back...it's to allow His believers to practice love and spread the word of God. 

God is love...love is the ultimate testament to being a follower of God.

Again, I fully agree that we should love others. But if you disagree with what I'm saying of love, then you should clearly present yours. People especially non-believers you care about are more interested to hear the clear definition of love rather than just using the word alone.

"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
This is the verse we all know as love verse. And it surely shows the characters of Christ. Also further says,

"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love." - 1 Corinthians 13:8-13
This is showing Jesus is the true love surpassing anything in this world even the ones we might see as spiritual things. When we know not love, we live like a child. But when we know love, Jesus, we live like a grown up, giving up childish ways. Living by showing His love to others. We are still unable to perfectly love like Jesus, but when He finally comes, when we see Him face to face, we shall love perfectly like Him finally.

 

[Mety]

Is Jesus the only way to salvation?

This is the ultimate question everyone wants to know yet struggling to accept. I have been emphasizing the importance of taking The Bible as the inerrant word of God. The reason is because the only way to really accept that Jesus is the only way to salvation has to be based off that matter first. If you take The Bible and translate some parts literally and some parts symbolically, then you end up struggling even more since you wouldn?t know which part to accept literal and symbolic. Was Jesus even literally living on earth 2000 year ago? It could go that far wrong if we are not clear on taking the word of God as is. So based on the fact that you believe in God and take The Bible as is without translating in any famous scholars? or historians? studies, taking the view of Jesus as the only way to salvation will be much easier to understand. With that being said, you can either stop here or keep reading to find out more. But here is the short answer if you don't want to read all these: Jesus is the only way to salvation because He is the only one died and resurrected with a bodily form appeared before more than 500 people including His disciples. Now if you are curious to know in more detail, please read on.

The concept of salvation is really something we must understand the origin of it first. According to the Old Testament, God chose Noah with the promise of salvation to save him from the flood. God saved Israel with the promise of salvation from Egypt. God delivered Israel from the enemies with the promise of salvation when they were attacked by other nations. Each time, God ?anointed? certain people to be filled with His Spirit and used those people to deliver them out of trouble. Ultimately God promised the salvation to all people to save them from eternally dying to eternally living. God the Father anointed Jesus the Son to do this work thus He is Jesus Christ, Christ meaning the Anointed. We need to see why Jesus came to earth and why He died and why He rose again to see the full picture of the concept of salvation.

Jesus was and is and always will be with God the Father. The Father and The Son are One with The Holy Spirit. There is no way a human expression can completely grasp the concept of how this Three in One God is, but as far as we know from the Bible, this is the God we believe in. One way to kind of understand the concept would be there is 1) the Father who manifests through all creation and anything that is good and 2) the Son who is visible like how He walked on earth 2000 years ago and who also has the resurrected bodily form and 3) the Spirit who is the one that works through humans to have faith, do His works, and so on. This is just a little bit of my explanation with my own little language to help understanding the concept. This can?t fully prove nor explain accurately of the Trinity God Himself. The important truth is that Jesus is not any lower than the Father and the Holy Spirit is not any lower than the Son. They are all equally one. Jesus says,
?I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.? - John 14:6-7
Jesus is not only saying if anyone saw Him, he/she saw the Father but also saying He is that very ?I AM? from the Old Testament Moses asked what God?s name was. Whenever Jesus said ?I am?? and so on this is referring to the ?I AM WHO I AM? from Exodus 3:14. So we need to understand the Son Jesus is also the same as God the Father although Jesus Himself decided to have restrictions while He walked on earth such as not knowing the specific time of end days, but this was because He was limited with only a humanly form. After He was risen from the dead, with the resurrected body, I believe He was just like the Father then without any limitations. I mean, He walked through walls and stuff so we are talking beyond what we can understand in the science of physics here after His resurrection. Jesus came to save us from the eternal death. He came to give us salvation from the king of trouble, death. The only way was that He had to die in place of us then He had to rise again to concur death, showing the proof He really is above death. Then Jesus proved to be that very I AM.

Where is this concept ?dying in place of us? coming from? We have to go back to the Old Testament again when God was giving Moses The Law to know what it means of ?dying for us? is. The night before God delivered Israel out of the slavery bondage of Egypt, He ordered every Israel family to sacrifice a lamb and paint its blood on the entrance door. That night was the night God passed through the land and a household without the lamb?s blood on their door was found the next morning with their firstborn killed. Thus all Israel?s firstborns were spared alive and all Egypt?s firstborns were killed. This sounds horrible if you just heard this without any background, but God before this all happened, warned Egypt with numerous plagues to release the people of Israel to Moses. With Pharaoh?s hardened heart, he didn?t let go of God?s people but kept holding them as slaves with harder tasks after each plague. Pharaoh classically illustrates the destiny of mankind living under the bondage of sin and death without accepting the grace God gives. Although we all die because of sin Adam brought into this world, God still wants us to be saved and the only way is through recognizing His grace. When God passes over the people, people will only have to face the consequence of death because God is the perfect holy God and the sin before the perfect holiness is no more. This was what happened that night in Egypt and God, just as an image of Christ, had them sacrifice the lamb to spare them alive though they equally deserved death. Then after finally Pharaoh let His people go and so on, the Law was given to Israel so that they would recognize their sin and will come to realize they can?t achieve the perfect holiness like God Himself (also so that they would be worshiping God in different and separate practices than other nations where they were doing all sorts of orgies - false religions). Jewish leaders were to give that sacrificial lamb every year celebrating the Passover as an image of symbolic practice of restoring the ?fellowship? between God and man, only to be reminded of their sins again and again and ultimately would ask God for forgiveness. But Jesus became that ultimate lamb so that not only we wouldn?t have to sacrifice a lamb every year but also the fellowship between God and us is restored again just like before the fall in the Garden of Eden. Just so that it would be ?good? again as God originally intended for all to be from the creation of the world.

Some people might say Jesus was having a success for awhile then somehow His plan failed so He ended up getting arrested and died. Well, that?s not true at all. Jesus in fact knew exactly when He would be crucified. He followed exactly what God the Father has planned for the humanity?s salvation. The spiritual leaders and all those people might have thought they were finally successful to kill Him at the time they wanted, but little did they know that Jesus was the one who timed everything in His control. This is why He kept saying not to tell anyone who He was ?yet? and warned some people to not to say anything ?yet.? He was accurately timing His death. He was crucified at the time of Passover so that He would be the final lamb for all. Some people also argue Jesus didn?t want to die and that?s why He prayed ?Remove this cup from me,? before he was arrested to be crucified. I believe this argument is false. What Jesus meant for ?this cup? is not the humanly pain and suffering He will face at the cross. It?s the ?separation? from God that one has to deal with when there is sin. Jesus, the sinless, had to be the sinful sacrifice to die in place of us. He, the Son would have to experience the separation from God the Father Himself. That was what made Jesus suffer. But as we know, He obeyed and said, ?Yet not what I will, but what you will.? - Mark 14:36
Jesus took away that separation from God and man. That?s why He is called ?Christ? the Messiah, the Anointed, the Chosen Lamb to wash away all the humanity?s sin once for all. Again, just so that it would be good again as God originally intended for all to be from the creation of the world.

No one knows where we are going after we die. Well, at least ones who don?t know the word of God will say that. But as for us, believers, we know our spirit will be with God the moment we die (if Christ hasn't returned yet) for the Holy Spirit is in us dwelling and we are waiting for Christ to return so that we will have a perfect body like Him one day. We know and believe Jesus after dying, rose again with the bodily form and still is alive with that very resurrected body. He not only preached He was the only way to God but also showed with His own bodily presence that eternal life is for real through Him. The only way to receive this grace is by ?faith.? But first of all Jesus Himself is the creator of faith so He has to give us this faith to believe all that is written of Him. Our part is ?asking.?
?Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.?- John 14:12-14
This verse is not something we ask God anything and He will do whatever we ask even if it?s evil. Jesus is saying this after ?I am the way, and the truth, and the life,? so that whoever asks of believing Jesus as the Christ will be granted to have that faith and further preach this good news to many people which did take place after the Pentecost and so on. This is the promise that whoever asks of believing Jesus as that very I AM who delivers us not only from some kind of bondage we might have in this world such as slavery or difficulties like how it was in the Old Testament but also from the ultimate bondage of all people, death. Christ?s resurrection is the only proof the Apostles could preach on of God?s salvation with eternal life until they were executed or exiled. Christ?s resurrection still remains as our only hope we have for salvation, the eternal life with God forevermore.

What other religion or what other belief system offers this kind of teaching? What God sends His beloved Son to die in place of humanity and promises to just ask and receive this love freely? Many other religions require certain works and achievements for them to be at least accepted. Some promises all kinds of weird sexual orgies in heaven and some offers we will be born as animals and so forth. Those are all not only out of humanly fear systems but also no one really promises with someone dying and coming back to life again. Movies like Matrix are trying to take this concept and distort on their own, but The Bible, the inerrant word of God is clear. Jesus died for you and rose again as a promise for you to receive this freely as faith. And that is the only way to salvation. Like I've said before gospel is pretty offensive because not only it hurts one's sin but it also denies all other religions. You might call it disrespectful or rude, but if Jesus says He is the only way, what other translation should we take that into? I believe all other religions are made by Satan to counterfeit God. While Christianity might be the one that's hard on other religions, Christ never taught to kill or encourage of massacre on any human beings. Christianity is never meant to violate physical harms to another like some other religious organizations do. Hitler, KKK, or all those people who perform wrong acts in the name of God are not real Christians. Those are all false who God actually condemns. We are to present gospel and show love, Christ. What about people from uttermost corners of the world who might not have heard the gospel or even the word, Jesus? I have said this before, but if you seek God with all your heart and soul from whatever time or situation, God will come to you. Deuteronomy 4. He will introduce you Jesus Himself. But also that is why we keep on preaching and preaching so that all will be heard of gospel as Jesus commanded of this. What about those devoted Jews who serve God? Being devoted could just mean being religious externally. If his/her internal heart is truly seeking after God, that person will come to an understanding of Jesus as the Son of God by the work of the Holy Spirit. What about infants? I believe this is also dealt with in 2 Samuel 12 when David lost his infant son saying,
"But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me." - 2 Samuel 12:23
David says he shall go to him, meaning he trusts that baby is with God and this shows how God is love who would save someone who couldn't make one's own decision of whether to have faith or not. David even after fasting and crying, doesn't show any signs of grieves here. Maybe he was even joyful his dead son was with God by then? In contrast, he surely showed much grief when his another son, Absalom died out of his own sin.

BTW, for those of you who might say how come God brought salvation to His people only while the other side of the people were destroyed? Like I said before, all mankind is under God?s judgment since God is the perfect holy God. But here are a few lists of showing how God is a patient God who wants all mankind to come repent and be saved.
Through Noah?s Arc, God was giving 120 years until he finished building the Arc so He was giving a long time for anyone to repent there.
Through plagues and warnings in Egypt, God was giving many many chances for them to repent as well before the Passover.
Through many chosen people by God, the enemies had the chance to see God?s greatness and surrender earlier, but instead, they kept on having hardened hearts and died.
Through Jesus, God was giving them a chance to repent while He walked on earth with His perfect teachings, examples and even miracles, but even after His resurrection, people still denied Him and rather loved their sin more than God.

It?s not really on God for those who choose eternal hell. It?s on themselves. God is patiently waiting and waiting and waiting. But that time will come to an end some day. Hope we all receive this free grace before it?s too late for God said that He really wants everyone to be saved,
"..I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die.." - Ezekiel 33:11

 

[Mety]

Tomorrow is Good Friday. We don't know the exact dates when was Jesus born and crucified, but roughly estimated times are picked and remembered or celebrated for the believers. There is a history that Christianity bought the Pagan holidays like December 25th and so on, but the important matter is that we believers are to remember those moments when Jesus came to this earth and when Jesus was crucified for our sins and when Jesus was resurrected from the dead, now called Easter. The only day we can know 100% sure of is The Lord's Day which we know as Sunday (a day after Sabbath, Saturday) is the day when Jesus was not found in the tomb He was buried. From this day, the resurrected Jesus Christ appeared to many believers and comforted them to remain faithful and shortly after He was taken up to heaven with a promise to give them the Holy Spirit. This is the day since then the Christians started to gather together to remember the Lord and to celebrate Him with The Scriptures and His very own words to proclaim the gospel started by The Apostles and other followers of Christ.

I have briefly covered in the previous post that there are some people who misunderstand that Jesus, before He was arrested and crucified, didn't want to suffer those humanly pains because He prayed "Remove this cup from me" prayer, but that is not what the Bible is teaching us at all. What was giving Jesus so much pain was that He had to be separated from God the Father for a moment. Jesus, the sinless one, had to bear all humanity's sin and become a sin offering in place of the lamb that was slaughtered annually and ultimately in place of us. We were separated from God because of our sin. The perfect Holy God is only distinguished as Holy when He is separated from what is un-holy. Because all humans sin, there is no one qualified to be perfectly holy before God. Thus the result is death. God is holy and forever, but we are unholy and dying. This is the curse Jesus took away by dying in place of us. By believing this, we are born again as 'Holy' and promised to live forevermore with God. Jesus had to bear this separation the sin causes and He had to be unholy for the moment He was tried and crucified. This was what Jesus was saying in that "Remove this cup from me" prayer how much He didn't want to be not 'one' with the Father and despised sins because He is naturally perfectly holy with God the Father. This is how much Jesus loved God the Father. This beautiful relationship is shown throughout the gospel and Jesus finally shows His sincere love again with obeying the Father by dying on the cross. When He prayed that prayer, His sweat became like great drops of blood (Luke 22:44). This is not to be translated as He was scared or tried to avoid the cross because if that was the case, He would not even have entered Jerusalem by the time He did which everyone knew He would be arrested by the Jews with the help of Roman soldiers because of what He was teaching and healing people at Sabbath (false accuse anyways) and so on. He would not have even let Judas Iscariot do what he did. He would not even said He was to be crucified at all from the beginning if He was just scared of the cross. Jesus gladly took all those humanly pains and sufferings for us. By that prayer, He was showing how much we are to despise sin which separates us from God. His sincere prayer is the example we are to set as a model and live like a born-again holy person God made us to be. We can try on our own, but we will fail again and again. Only by the Holy Spirit, we can pray such prayer and live such life.

The history is where we see the relationship of love between God the Father and His Son, Jesus. They are always one and their relationship is telling us what true love is. We, His creation, are participated in that love and are privileged to be called God's children, making us the same status as The Son, Jesus Christ. The amount of suffering Jesus was having to be separated from the Father is the example of how we ought to take sin as and pray to be like Him. May this Good Friday be a day when we pray as such with the help of the Holy Spirit. May it also be the day not just remaining sorrowful but also remembering with joy the glory that came in His resurrection shortly after His death on the Lord's Day.

 

[Mety]

"So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." - James 2:17 (ESV)

Many people confuse this issue while you might have heard it's by your faith alone that saves you, but in some other verses, it emphasizes on works as well. However, it's pretty clear on what God is saying if we base from the entire Holy Bible all together. The salvation is by believing in Jesus is the Christ. That is the only way. Period. But to illustrate easier what it means to have 'works,' we should think of the word 'works' as our 'action.' That action we need to take as a believer is quite simple: to help those in need.

If you come to the pulpit because the pastor asks to come up front if you decided to believe in Jesus after the sermon, does that make you a genuine believer of Christ who are now saved? The answer is you could be or not at all. It could go both ways. If you really have decided to follow Jesus and put away all the sinful life you had in the past, then yes, you are now a genuine believer who are saved. That will make Jesus as your master and you are His servant. That means you will do whatever pleases your Master. So what pleases God?
"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." - James 1:27

God kept saying this throughout the whole Bible that we as God's people are to take care of the poor, needy and even the foreigners living among us. The religious Jewish leaders were supposed to help the widows and orphans per God's command, but from OT times, they failed to do so. Jesus Himself came and showed this to us even by becoming the very poor among us. But instead of repenting and accepting Jesus as the real Savior, people betrayed and killed Him. Jesus, though people's rejection, rose again from the dead to confirm His deity and completed the Law to love God and others by doing that very 'work' or 'action' He did among those in need. Even with people's failure, God continues to carry His plan and love for those who believe and He calls His servants, friends.

"He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing." - Deuteronomy 10:18

Those who just came up to the pulpit and prayed the prayer but since then didn't show any love to those rejected, poor and needy are probably not saved for they are the very ones James or even God pointed out having faith without works.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@Mety:

Your posts remind me of the style of some pastors who over explain. I realize your message is probably for non-believers who may need this depth, but at the same time, this is where I think ELI5 may work better.

Just my opinion.

 

[eyephone]

I think Mety is doing a good job.

 

[Mety]

@Mety:

Your posts remind me of the style of some pastors who over explain. I realize your message is probably for non-believers who may need this depth, but at the same time, this is where I think ELI5 may work better.

Just my opinion.

Thanks for your opinion.
I'm actually writing these for believers who might think they know all these stuff. If there is any question or disagreement, anyone can always chime in and ask or argue back. I thought this board said the majority was actually a believer. I do understand though because I tend to not read long posts like these in other threads either ;D  But I do go back and read when I get some down time.

For non-believers, I may go with a total different approach. The same message, but like you said maybe something for like 5 year olds or something. But at the same time, non-believers, who are fully grown adults can read these whenever they have time or even when they try to kill some time at a bathroom or something. I'm not really looking for approvals or praise from anyone. I just felt I must write these as I find many TI members here valuable to share what I treasure the most. I didn't know this thread existed. Thanks for bringing back up.

May I ask what pastors you are referring to?

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Just pastors... or even Christians in general.

So then if they are meant for believers... seems a little bit like "preaching to the choir" (to use a topical phrase).

There are points in your posts that I am not totally in sync with with but just by our previous discussions, I don't think pointing them out will result in anything other than we agree to disagree.

As you can tell, I seem to be more aligned with IC's stance which seems to be at odds with your own (notice the non-use of "right" or "wrong").

 

[Mety]

Just pastors... or even Christians in general.

So then if they are meant for believers... seems a little bit like "preaching to the choir" (to use a topical phrase).

There are points in your posts that I am not totally in sync with with but just by our previous discussions, I don't think pointing them out will result in anything other than we agree to disagree.

As you can tell, I seem to be more aligned with IC's stance which seems to be at odds with your own (notice the non-use of "right" or "wrong").

Let me ask you this before I say anything further.
Are you a Christian?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Just pastors... or even Christians in general.

So then if they are meant for believers... seems a little bit like "preaching to the choir" (to use a topical phrase).

There are points in your posts that I am not totally in sync with with but just by our previous discussions, I don't think pointing them out will result in anything other than we agree to disagree.

As you can tell, I seem to be more aligned with IC's stance which seems to be at odds with your own (notice the non-use of "right" or "wrong").

I agree re non-believers.  It never made sense to me why pastors/Christians preach to non-believers by citing to the Bible.  It's an appeal to authority that is unpersuasive. 

I get the allure but most Christians are way into their own bubbles to relate to non-believers. 

 

[Mety]

Just pastors... or even Christians in general.

So then if they are meant for believers... seems a little bit like "preaching to the choir" (to use a topical phrase).

There are points in your posts that I am not totally in sync with with but just by our previous discussions, I don't think pointing them out will result in anything other than we agree to disagree.

As you can tell, I seem to be more aligned with IC's stance which seems to be at odds with your own (notice the non-use of "right" or "wrong").

I agree re non-believers.  It never made sense to me why pastors/Christians preach to non-believers by citing to the Bible.  It's an appeal to authority that is unpersuasive. 

I get the allure but most Christians are way into their own bubbles to relate to non-believers.

Well then now you know all my posts were for Christians or believers like yourself like most TI members (at least that's what they said). I do believe you can certainly use the Bible verses to non-believers, but that is something we can discuss later since the way I was doing here was meant for believers who all have read those verses before.

So are you saying I'm in my own bubble and can't really relate to non-believers?

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Just pastors... or even Christians in general.

So then if they are meant for believers... seems a little bit like "preaching to the choir" (to use a topical phrase).

There are points in your posts that I am not totally in sync with with but just by our previous discussions, I don't think pointing them out will result in anything other than we agree to disagree.

As you can tell, I seem to be more aligned with IC's stance which seems to be at odds with your own (notice the non-use of "right" or "wrong").

I agree re non-believers.  It never made sense to me why pastors/Christians preach to non-believers by citing to the Bible.  It's an appeal to authority that is unpersuasive. 

I get the allure but most Christians are way into their own bubbles to relate to non-believers.

Well then now you know all my posts were for Christians or believers like yourself like most TI members (at least that's what they said). I do believe you can certainly use the Bible verses to non-believers, but that is something we can discuss later since the way I was doing here was meant for believers who all have read those verses before.

So are you saying I'm in my own bubble and can't really relate to non-believers?

I make no judgments as to you cause I do not know you personally other than what you post here.  I was speaking as to Christians and the American Christian movement as a whole. 

 

[Mety]

Just pastors... or even Christians in general.

So then if they are meant for believers... seems a little bit like "preaching to the choir" (to use a topical phrase).

There are points in your posts that I am not totally in sync with with but just by our previous discussions, I don't think pointing them out will result in anything other than we agree to disagree.

As you can tell, I seem to be more aligned with IC's stance which seems to be at odds with your own (notice the non-use of "right" or "wrong").

I agree re non-believers.  It never made sense to me why pastors/Christians preach to non-believers by citing to the Bible.  It's an appeal to authority that is unpersuasive. 

I get the allure but most Christians are way into their own bubbles to relate to non-believers.

Well then now you know all my posts were for Christians or believers like yourself like most TI members (at least that's what they said). I do believe you can certainly use the Bible verses to non-believers, but that is something we can discuss later since the way I was doing here was meant for believers who all have read those verses before.

So are you saying I'm in my own bubble and can't really relate to non-believers?

I make no judgments as to you cause I do not know you personally other than what you post here.  I was speaking as to Christians and the American Christian movement as a whole.

Seems like you're more judgmental toward American Christianity than how you were accusing me of being judgmental. lol.
I don't know why you are so turned off by pastors preach with Bible verses. Isn't the Bible the main source of their message? Are you looking for more personal stories and experiences? I guess you saw some pastors looking like they were being authoritative with verses and whatnot, but I think if they genuinely site and speak to preach the gospel, I don't see what the problem is. Again, maybe you saw someone being hypocritical, but as much as you personally don't know me, are you sure you can say you know them?