Future of real estate in irvine

Also...Redfin data from the last 90 days:

Median List Price $818K
Median List $/Sq Ft $434
Median Sale Price $714K
Median Sale $/Sq Ft $416
Median Sale / List 98.5%
Avg. Number of Offers 2.6
Avg. Down Payment 28.9%
Number of Homes Sold 646
 
jbot747 said:
Date          Event                  Price$/sqft
06/05/14  Price change      $535,000-1.8%$509
05/02/14  Listed for sale    $545,000$519
06/02/12  Listing removed  $2,150/mo
05/17/12  Listed for rent    $2,150/mo
08/06/04  Sold                  $530,000$504
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/66-Alevera-St-Irvine-CA-92618/59730824_zpid/

So this person bought a decade ago, far from the exact height, and still can't sell it for a profit.

Interesting find.. This is a Plan 1 in the Aldea tract. There was one sale at $605k in 2005 which looks like the bubble peak for this plan which then went on after foreclosure to be the low at $380k in 2012. The most recent Plan 1, 32 Alevera, sold in March 2014 at $527k (originally listed at $576,888).
 
thatOSguy said:
paperboyNC said:
Can you link to the analysis? Right now interest rates for 5/1 ARMs are so low that buying makes a lot of sense. If interest rates go up hopefully inflation will go up too to keep the real interest rates lower.

Shevy/Larry's site has changed so much I can't even find it any more; everything seems to lead to a home search page. He used to profile one property in a given city then compare that to the surrounding market ("Posted Under Huntington Beach Housing News") etc. with red/yellow/green scoring the market value on a own-vs-rent basis.

At a micro level, I found Larry's analysis to be pretty accurate -- he calcs just about everything and spits out the appropriate info relevant to that property (cap rates, cash required at close, monthly costs, comparison of FHA to traditional financing, etc) vs other rentals.

On a macro-market basis, though, all he essentially did was take median rents vs. median sales price then evaluated the delta.

The flaw, of course, is there is noise in HOAs and Mello Roos that significantly changes the total cost of ownership of an Irvine home. That data is not readily accessible en masse so it is harder to disaggregate relative values.

In my analysis, mello roos and HOAs are as or more significant factor in ownership cost than interest rates.

1) MR and HOAs don't change (most MR expire but generally that's many years away, assuming there's no renewal).
2) HOAs aren't deductible and often increase over time.
3) MR may or may not be deductible, depending if you are subject to AMT and the MR are for infrastructure.
4) As/when interest rates float down, buyers can take advantage and lower the cost basis.
5) On an absolute $$ basis, MR and HOAs can be equal to .25% - 1% difference in interest rates (depending on loan amount).
6) Irvine's HOA and MR vary greatly; some are among the most expensive in the county, if not the state.

It's the most under-reported, under-appreciated factor in owning a home in Irvine - and since it's a nuance to specific communities, it's often missed in the macro-analysis and calculators that attempt to grade rent-vs-own analysis. Too many folks are hell-bent on "how much home they can afford" backing into size based on $4xx/square foot and 4.x% 30 year fixed. The reality is between a 5/1 ARM (which I don't have) and a low MR/HOA community (of which I'm mid-pack) the cost basis changes quite a bit.

As a homeowner, HOA matter very little to me (my HOA is pretty low)...MR are more a concern but they're tax deductible.  I have found that factoring all costs and tax deductions, the analysis pretty much boils down to rent v. mortgage payments. 
 
thatOSguy said:
Irvinecommuter said:
As a homeowner, HOA matter very little to me (my HOA is pretty low)...MR are more a concern but they're tax deductible.  I have found that factoring all costs and tax deductions, the analysis pretty much boils down to rent v. mortgage payments.

MR aren't deductible for those of us who are subject to AMT (coming to your tax return soon!).

Since your HOA is "pretty low" I'm not sure you appreciate the magnitude. Some approach $300/month -- that's car payment territory.

If you are subject to the AMT, I don't have much concern for you. 

Yes HOAs can get pretty high but the factors are known to you before you buy.  They don't change materially so it's not really a surprise.
 
thatOSguy said:
Irvinecommuter said:
If you are subject to the AMT, I don't have much concern for you. 

You'd be surprised. It hits a large and growing number of taxpayers every year; to afford anything in Irvine, even at the entry level, there's a very good chance it hits most buyers. It's material and changes the materiality for MR.

Irvinecommuter said:
Yes HOAs can get pretty high but the factors are known to you before you buy.  They don't change materially so it's not really a surprise.

They aren't factored in macro-analysis; that's the point.

I know it's been hitting more people but the newer fiscal had it indexed to inflation and brings back the phase out...so the impact is not nearly as bad as it used to be.

Also...since AMT is capped out at 28%...it's not always "bad".

Also...I'm not sure it matters more than interest rates.

 
last year i paid about 15K in property taxes and MR. that is about 1,250 per month, the tax benefit if we could deduct that would be about 525/month. that is a car payment right there, kind of sucks. still a nice problem to have but still sucks.
 
thatOSguy said:
Irvinecommuter said:
thatOSguy said:
Irvinecommuter said:
If you are subject to the AMT, I don't have much concern for you. 

You'd be surprised. It hits a large and growing number of taxpayers every year; to afford anything in Irvine, even at the entry level, there's a very good chance it hits most buyers. It's material and changes the materiality for MR.

Irvinecommuter said:
Yes HOAs can get pretty high but the factors are known to you before you buy.  They don't change materially so it's not really a surprise.

They aren't factored in macro-analysis; that's the point.

I know it's been hitting more people but the newer fiscal had it indexed to inflation and brings back the phase out...so the impact is not nearly as bad as it used to be.

Also...since AMT is capped out at 28%...it's not always "bad".

Also...I'm not sure it matters more than interest rates.

Lets try this:

Take Entrata in Orchard Hills.

How much do you need to earn to afford it? $200k? More? Now you're well in AMT territory.

And HOAs plus MR are ~$650 per month.

How much does a quarter point move the needle in interest rates there? $100? $150?

You absolutely don't need 200K to qualify for Entrada.  Assuming a $650K price, it's a loan of about $530,000 ($120,000 in DP).  That's a payment of about $2,700...you probably need something like $150,000 in income to qualify. 

Also...HOA/MR/Taxes are already factored into the mortgage analysis as to whether you qualify.

No one is worried about a rise of a quarter percent...a half percent change would be a difference of about $160...a full point increase would be about $320 difference.
 
qwerty said:
last year i paid about 15K in property taxes and MR. that is about 1,250 per month, the tax benefit if we could deduct that would be about 525/month. that is a car payment right there, kind of sucks. still a nice problem to have but still sucks.

Of course...but my concern for you is low considering your income.
 
A 5/1 could potentially blow up in your face if rates were to shoot up. I don't think they will shot up dramatically in 5 years but if they did and that person had not paid off a big chunk of the mortgage (or have the ability to pay off a big chunk) I would not want to be in their shoes.
 
thatOSguy said:
Perfect example of missing the point. You need $650 more per month to qualify, plus upgrades, which is closer to $200k.

Also, a 3 br place easily puts you in range.

No...I'm not missing the point. 

1)  the fact that it's calculated into the mortgage qualification means that it's already accounted for.  It's not a surprise.

2)  AMT isn't all or nothing deal at $200K...the exemptions are phased out at that point.  Complete phase out doesn't happen until $323K for single or $477K for couples.

 
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