Crystal Cove

[quote author="graphrix" date=1232559129]Blah, just find a private equity group to buy the models and do a lease back to Laing. I'm sure they will pay their bills, since they paid BK's. <a href="http://idea.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/840216/000110465909000053/a08-31294_18k.htm">That's what all the cool builders are doing.</a></blockquote>


<blockquote>The Registrant also announced that it delivered seven (7) homes at Brightwater at an average price of approximately $2.1 million during the fourth quarter, including two (2) Cliffs homes and four (4) Breakers homes, which are the larger homes at Brightwater. Including the model homes, the Registrant delivered 40 homes in 2008 at Brightwater and 49 homes project-to-date. The Registrant has generated two (2) new sales orders at Brightwater since the quarter ended September 30, 2008.



Current backlog at Brightwater is seven (7) homes with an aggregate sales value of approximately $16.6 million, including four (4) Breakers homes with unobstructed ocean views, one Cliffs home and two (2) homes at The Sands and The Trails (the smaller product lines). There were no cancellations at Brightwater during the fourth quarter and the cancellation rate for 2008 was 19%.

</blockquote>
Forgive my ignorance, but how many total homes were to be built at Brightwater in Huntington Beach?
 
I have heard rumors that Seapoint has not sold a home in the last 4 months. Good luck Seapoint getting top dollar for the models. Last I checked Seapoint homes were much more aggressively priced than the re-sale homes for sale in CC too. Partly due to its location (upper crystal cove) and other factors of course too.



I don't think it's looking good for either Laing Homes or Standard Pacific this year. A grande drip at Starbucks is now worth more than a share of SP. Would not be surprised to see one of them implode this year.





http://lansner.freedomblogging.com/...g-confirms-layoffs-ponders-all-options/12432/
 
[quote author="cdm" date=1232587746]Sell,



Are there any REO's in CC right now?</blockquote>


1 Reo (not yet listed in the MLS) and a handful of NOD's. Even more importantly are the homes that are currently for sale (and quite a few that are not) that have extremely high ltv's (hence the "WTF" asking price for the listed homes) hefty cash-out/re-fi abuse. Enormous 1st Trust Deeds, plenty of piggyback 2nd's as well (some in the form of HELOC's).



By no means am I saying every home is going to foreclosure in CC, obviously this will not be the case. Both the super wealthy and the home-owner who can actually afford to live here are going to have their equity destroyed thanks to the home-owners who had no business buying in this community in the first place, and there are quite a few of them.



Here is a CC home in the Oceana tract of CC that is currently listed (beautiful ocean/catalina views, coastline views too. Oceana was built by Standard Pacific) These are not front row CC homes, and not upper crystal cove (think Coral Cay), rather in a perfect location in CC IMO.



Rockhore Bluff:

1 owner

Purchase Price: $2,223,400

Date: 11-15-2004

1st TD: $1,674,983





6-15-2005: Re-fi $692,000

11-16-2005: Re-fi $2,000,000

10-17-2006: Re-fi $3,000,000 (this lender is now part of JP Morgan - anyone care to sell JP Morgan shares short?)

12-20-2006: HELOC or Re-fi $250,000





.
 
My perspective is that the builders - in this case, SPF - would not have been able to seel the units they did without this type of customer. If they had to share the "legitimate buyers" with Emerald, Laguna, CdM, the Pelicans, Shady, Balboa, the islands in the bay, Bear Brand, etc., they would still be on the first phase.



I was in Santa Barbara in the early to mid '90's. This is when Ennisbrook was developed, and they found out the hard way that the slice of customers who can afford housing in that segment regardless of economic circumstances was very slim, especially when it has to be shared with the rest of Montecito, and Hope Ranch.
 
Laing Luxury is having trouble processing the custom home project through the Design Review Board. Many custom homes by others have gone to rigorous design quality and standard in meeting the aesthetic enforcement. Apparently Laing is allowing buyers to select their favorite parts of the model homes and put them together like a buffet combination then submitted the design to the architectural jury. A reliable source said the submittal put together by Laing's architect Robert Hidey is inferior and lacking composition quality when a house is conceived first prior to site selection. The production home approach to custom homes is like a gourmet meal served at a fast food joint.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1234246218]It looks like Laing Luxury can't afford to pay their hoes either.</blockquote>


Architect is the world's 2nd oldest profession because he designed for the world's oldest profession.
 
[quote author="skek" date=1234327884]If I'm reading this right, our investor friend is offering the Plan 1 SeaPoint model, sans leaseback, for $4.95 million, or $798 per sq foot for a dead-on ocean view on a half acre lot.



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Coast/39-S-Sur-92657/home/18568791">39 S Sur</a>



While I think there's more to go to the ultimate bottom, that's a dramatic price reduction for a CC property.</blockquote>


Skek - this is written in the private remarks for that home



AUCTION***AUCTION***AUCTION***AUCTION***AUCTION***AUCTION***AUCTION Original asking price $7,475,000 Minimum Bid $4,950,000. All potentilal buyers must be preapproved by Lender Bank of America. Non Refundable Auction Option Fee of $150,000 (applys to purchase price)is required to enter Escrow. 30 Day Escrow. This is the best buy in the area for starting at $4,950,000. May be sold prior to Auction if Buyer submits an offer that is accepted by Seller. This a model home, price includes all furniture Call for access instructions.





the $5.0m question - will they even have buyers lined up ready to bid at that price?
 
Very nice place!

The way the debt market is right now, no bank is going to lend on it.

If it sits, the monthly carrying cost will eat them alive.
 
Being the amaetur I am, I was always under the impression that buyers pretty much paid cash for multi-million dollar homes, and this was my thinking pre-bubble. I mean, if you're buying a multi-million dollar home, you are likely not a salaried employee (again, conjecture on my part), or if you are, your family has tons of money, and you work for a comparatively meager salary just to work and presumably accomplish something in life outside of familiy money. Above $300,000, you don't get salary. You either get bonuses or commission based on whatever it is you do. And anything less than a $300K salary is never going to cut it for a multi-million dollar home (whether combined or individual). If you are CEO of a Fortune 100 Company and get sizeable bonuses, why wouldn't you just pay cash outright? Again, this is aside from the bubble where everyone leveraged (obviously we are finding people couldn't afford what they purchased). On the other hand, there are those rich enough that they still can afford these types of homes. Why would you borrow?
 
[quote author="JLegend" date=1236827840]Being the amaetur I am, I was always under the impression that buyers pretty much paid cash for multi-million dollar homes, and this was my thinking pre-bubble. I mean, if you're buying a multi-million dollar home, you are likely not a salaried employee (again, conjecture on my part), or if you are, your family has tons of money, and you work for a comparatively meager salary just to work and presumably accomplish something in life outside of familiy money. Above $300,000, you don't get salary. You either get bonuses or commission based on whatever it is you do. And anything less than a $300K salary is never going to cut it for a multi-million dollar home (whether combined or individual). If you are CEO of a Fortune 100 Company and get sizeable bonuses, why wouldn't you just pay cash outright? Again, this is aside from the bubble where everyone leveraged (obviously we are finding people couldn't afford what they purchased). On the other hand, there are those rich enough that they still can afford these types of homes. Why would you borrow?</blockquote>


Interesting analysis, you?d think that would be the case.

Maybe in a few instances that?s correct.

It seems they?re using leverage just like everyone else, only on a much larger scale.

The example above, 2 Sea Glass seems to support that theory since there?s a fat $4.4M loan on it.
 
Crystal Cove when it first opened in the 2000 the buyers who purchased the production homes in "Lower Beach Town" were buyers who sold their stock options in the dot com companies or made their money in stocks. Seabourne, Watermark, and Windward were the first releases that captured younger buyers with a huge sum of cash.
 
[quote author="tenmagnet" date=1236831530][quote author="JLegend" date=1236827840]Being the amaetur I am, I was always under the impression that buyers pretty much paid cash for multi-million dollar homes, and this was my thinking pre-bubble. I mean, if you're buying a multi-million dollar home, you are likely not a salaried employee (again, conjecture on my part), or if you are, your family has tons of money, and you work for a comparatively meager salary just to work and presumably accomplish something in life outside of familiy money. Above $300,000, you don't get salary. You either get bonuses or commission based on whatever it is you do. And anything less than a $300K salary is never going to cut it for a multi-million dollar home (whether combined or individual). If you are CEO of a Fortune 100 Company and get sizeable bonuses, why wouldn't you just pay cash outright? Again, this is aside from the bubble where everyone leveraged (obviously we are finding people couldn't afford what they purchased). On the other hand, there are those rich enough that they still can afford these types of homes. Why would you borrow?</blockquote>


Interesting analysis, you?d think that would be the case.

Maybe in a few instances that?s correct.

It seems they?re using leverage just like everyone else, only on a much larger scale.

The example above, 2 Sea Glass seems to support that theory since there?s a fat $4.4M loan on it.</blockquote>


To be fair, my analysis was way overbroad. Doctors (surgeons, specialists, etc.) can easily make over $500K a year, and partners at big law firms, average anywhere from $1 - 2 million a year. But even after taxes, trying to make monthly payments on a $3 million dollar note, not to mention putting aside for property taxes would be stretching even these sorts of income. If one has been practicing for 10 years or more, I can see a much larger down payment being made, making the monthly payments more palatable (relatively speaking). But still, those are massive loans that monthly payments on them (and the interest they carry) seems absurd.
 
[quote author="JLegend" date=1236833096][quote author="tenmagnet" date=1236831530][quote author="JLegend" date=1236827840]Being the amaetur I am, I was always under the impression that buyers pretty much paid cash for multi-million dollar homes, and this was my thinking pre-bubble. I mean, if you're buying a multi-million dollar home, you are likely not a salaried employee (again, conjecture on my part), or if you are, your family has tons of money, and you work for a comparatively meager salary just to work and presumably accomplish something in life outside of familiy money. Above $300,000, you don't get salary. You either get bonuses or commission based on whatever it is you do. And anything less than a $300K salary is never going to cut it for a multi-million dollar home (whether combined or individual). If you are CEO of a Fortune 100 Company and get sizeable bonuses, why wouldn't you just pay cash outright? Again, this is aside from the bubble where everyone leveraged (obviously we are finding people couldn't afford what they purchased). On the other hand, there are those rich enough that they still can afford these types of homes. Why would you borrow?</blockquote>


Interesting analysis, you?d think that would be the case.

Maybe in a few instances that?s correct.

It seems they?re using leverage just like everyone else, only on a much larger scale.

The example above, 2 Sea Glass seems to support that theory since there?s a fat $4.4M loan on it.</blockquote>


To be fair, my analysis was way overbroad. Doctors (surgeons, specialists, etc.) can easily make over $500K a year, and partners at big law firms, average anywhere from $1 - 2 million a year. But even after taxes, trying to make monthly payments on a $3 million dollar note, not to mention putting aside for property taxes would be stretching even these sorts of income. If one has been practicing for 10 years or more, I can see a much larger down payment being made, making the monthly payments more palatable (relatively speaking). But still, those are massive loans that monthly payments on them (and the interest they carry) seems absurd.</blockquote>


That rational makes sense if these were primary residences.

Unfortunately,the properties discussed above appear to be investments.

You?ve got to have some very deep pockets and a serious net worth to secure a $4.4M loan
 
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