Costa Mesa...good location gone wrong!

[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1244645335]Personally, I care more about the people that inhabit a city over the physical appearances of the houses. I like neighborhoods where parents work hard while kids are respectful and ambitious.</blockquote>


I completely agree. A well kept working class community with lots of kids and hard working parents is far more attractive to me than a stately community of greedy traders, corrupt foreign immigrants, real estate developers, litigation tricksters, etc. with their ingrate spawn. His mansion in Alhambra would be beautiful if Phil Spector didn't live in it.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1244861492][quote author="hs_teacher" date=1244645335]Personally, I care more about the people that inhabit a city over the physical appearances of the houses. I like neighborhoods where parents work hard while kids are respectful and ambitious.</blockquote>


I completely agree. A well kept working class community with lots of kids and hard working parents is far more attractive to me than a stately community of greedy traders, corrupt foreign immigrants, real estate developers, litigation tricksters, etc. with their ingrate spawn. His mansion in Alhambra would be beautiful if Phil Spector didn't live in it.</blockquote>


So are the bungalows before the Chinese added the white bars and stucco over the wood beams and sidings.
 
http://www.newsweek.com/id/201160



IIRC, the overall numerical ranking system seem quite flawed :

1. They statistics only involve <em>graduating</em> seniors

2. They rank by totaling how many AP or IB tests were <em>taken</em>, not how many were passed





<strong>The companion E&E score which says what % of graduating high school seniors <em>passed</em> at least 1 AP exam seems a bit more relevant</strong>

Some schools have dismal single-digit E&E scores, but are still ranked in the 700s
 
Woodbridge is 1353 with EE of 35

Westminster is 1286

Tustin is 1091

Edison is 1072

Irvine is 1042

Jordan (the one in Watts or Long Beach ??) is 777 with EE of 6

OCHSA is 736

Foothill is 711

Marina is 709

Laguna Beach is 681

Fountain Valley is 620

Northwood is 612

Newport Harbor is 504

Eagle Rock is 383 with EE of 28.2

Corona Del Mar is 169

University is 156

Troy is 31
 
[quote author="xoneinax" date=1244871253]Woodbridge is 1353

Westminster is 1286

Tustin is 1091

Edison is 1072

Irvine is 1042

(Jordan is 777)

OCHSA is 736

Foothill is 711

Marina is 709

Laguna Beach is 681

Fountain Valley is 620

Northwood is 612

Newport Harbor is 504

Corona Del Mar is 169

University is 156

Troy is 31</blockquote>


Cypress Oxford 16

LA Center 44

LA Hawthorne 56

Pasadena Marshall 152

San Marino 281

LA High 310

MV 325

Cerritos 330

Diamond Bar 365

Eagle Rock 383

Fullerton Sunnyhill 385

Villa Pk 423

Walnut 432

90210 435

Arcadia 567



Many more schools from SoCal I did not bother to list in the top 600. I am very surprised to see only one school from Irvine is in the top 600s.
 
Damn... Villa Park just crushed Fountain Valley, I mean just crushed it, slaughtered it, blew it out of the water. In fact only one Irvine school was higher.



Anyway, back on topic, Newport Harbor killed FV and most of the schools in Irvine. And... Foothill beat two of the Irvine schools. Love it.



Then again, it really is all about the parents, and the parents who depend on the school to make their kids better are codependent on the school. And they really need to reassess what is more important... striving to be a good parent, or having my kid in the best school? It's not the school stupid, it's the parent.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1244906633]Damn... Villa Park just crushed Fountain Valley, I mean just crushed it, slaughtered it, blew it out of the water. In fact only one Irvine school was higher.



Anyway, back on topic, Newport Harbor killed FV and most of the schools in Irvine. And... Foothill beat two of the Irvine schools. Love it.



Then again, it really is all about the parents, and the parents who depend on the school to make their kids better are codependent on the school. And they really need to reassess what is more important... striving to be a good parent, or having my kid in the best school? It's not the school stupid, it's the parent.</blockquote>


Wow, the rankings need considerable explanations. Newport Harbor, Villa Park, and Foothill are located in some of the most affluent neighborhoods in Orange County. Some of the students that go to these schools are the most privileged in the state. It's no surprise that they would rank high.



Just by briefly looking at the rankings, I can tell that the study focuses on the best students at the schools, not the average.

I agree that the best students at Newport Harbor, Villa Park, and Foothill outshine most students.

But I also think that the average student at Irvine, Woodbridge, Edison, and Fountain Valley are better than the average students at most schools.



Let's briefly ponder why Villa Park and Newport Harbor killed Fountain Valley by looking at their home values...



Newport Beach 92662 $2,200,000.00

Villa Park 92861 $850,000.00

Fountain Valley 92708 $532,000.00



If you have the means, I encourage you to buy a million dollar home in Newport Beach, Villa Park, or North Tustin.

But if you're middle class and looking for a decent home that's close to a decent school, I suggest Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley, and Irvine.

As for the fear of subpar schools, I suggest you stay away from Garden Grove, Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, Tustin, and Orange.



Woodbridge is 1353

Westminster is 1286

Tustin is 1091

Edison is 1072

Irvine is 1042

(Jordan is 777)

OCHSA is 736

Foothill is 711

Marina is 709

Laguna Beach is 681

Fountain Valley is 620

Northwood is 612

Newport Harbor is 504

Corona Del Mar is 169

University is 156

Troy is 31
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1244946268][quote author="graphrix" date=1244906633]Damn... Villa Park just crushed Fountain Valley, I mean just crushed it, slaughtered it, blew it out of the water. In fact only one Irvine school was higher.



Anyway, back on topic, Newport Harbor killed FV and most of the schools in Irvine. And... Foothill beat two of the Irvine schools. Love it.



Then again, it really is all about the parents, and the parents who depend on the school to make their kids better are codependent on the school. And they really need to reassess what is more important... striving to be a good parent, or having my kid in the best school? It's not the school stupid, it's the parent.</blockquote>


Wow, the rankings need considerable explanations. Newport Harbor, Villa Park, and Foothill are located in some of the most affluent neighborhoods in Orange County. Some of the students that go to these schools are the most privileged in the state. It's no surprise that they would rank high.



Just by briefly looking at the rankings, I can tell that the study focuses on the best students at the schools, not the average.

I agree that the best students at Newport Harbor, Villa Park, and Foothill outshine most students.

But I also think that the average student at Irvine, Woodbridge, Edison, and Fountain Valley are better than the average students at most schools.



Let's briefly ponder why Villa Park and Newport Harbor killed Fountain Valley by looking at their home values...



Newport Beach 92662 $2,200,000.00

Villa Park 92861 $850,000.00

Fountain Valley 92708 $532,000.00



If you have the means, I encourage you to buy a million dollar home in Newport Beach, Villa Park, or North Tustin.

But if you're middle class and looking for a decent home that's close to a decent school, I suggest Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley, and Irvine.

As for the fear of subpar schools, I suggest you stay away from Garden Grove, Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, Tustin, and Orange.</blockquote>


92662 is for balboa island which does not go to Newport Harbor. The 4 Zipcodes that go to NHHS is

CM 92627 $488,000

NB 92660 $1,054,000

NB 92661 $1,036,000

NB 92663 $1,075,000
 
And Villa Park also serves two other Orange zip codes:



92867 $478,500

92865 $357,500



Picking and choosing his stats to confirm hs_t's opinion, not actual fact, is his MO. Never mind the fact that you can buy a <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Orange/2409-E-Monroe-Ave-92867/home/4374111">decent and remodeled home for less than $500k</a> in a middle class neighborhood, and have your kids walk to Villa Park high.



Ignorance is bliss.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1245070357]And Villa Park also serves two other Orange zip codes:



92867 $478,500

92865 $357,500



Picking and choosing his stats to confirm hs_t's opinion, not actual fact, is his MO. Never mind the fact that you can buy a <a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Orange/2409-E-Monroe-Ave-92867/home/4374111">decent and remodeled home for less than $500k</a> in a middle class neighborhood, and have your kids walk to Villa Park high.



Ignorance is bliss.</blockquote>


Do you realize you have used the expression "ignorance is bliss" at least 3 times in this thread? :)
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1245072424]Do you realize you have used the expression "ignorance is bliss" at least 3 times in this thread? :)</blockquote>


And... the point has yet to be recognized. It's amazing that it has often been repeated, but it remains to be so subtle. I think some here do get it. :)
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1245077401][quote author="traceimage" date=1245072424]Do you realize you have used the expression "ignorance is bliss" at least 3 times in this thread? :)</blockquote>


And... the point has yet to be recognized. It's amazing that it has often been repeated, but it remains to be so subtle. I think some here do get it. :)</blockquote>


Have u ever even stepped foot on either vphs or nhh? Both schools have major conflicts between the rich kids and the poor ones.

Schools like fv and irvine have good students overall whereas vp and harbor have a VERY diverging spectrum.

That's why the newsweek rankings are based on the best students rather than the average.

U are beyond oblivious to class tensions.
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1245078252]Have u ever even stepped foot on either vphs or nhh? Both schools have major conflicts between the rich kids and the poor ones.

Schools like fv and irvine have good students overall whereas vp and harbor have a VERY diverging spectrum.

That's why the newsweek rankings are based on the best students rather than the average.

U are beyond oblivious to class tensions.</blockquote>


Um... dude... do you have short term memory problems? I went to VP, and I live in VP. I know very well about the difference between the rich kids and the poor kids, and yet many of the poor kids did and do just as well, if not better than the rich kids. I also am friends with someone who has had several of kids that went and go to NHH, and they experienced the same thing... i.e. poor kids doing just as well as the rich kids. In fact, it is usually the rich kids who f*ck up the most. Irvine and FV have the same divergence issues as VP and NHH, because the last time I checked there is mandatory low income housing requirements. I think the one who is oblivious is not me.



I will say this one last time, it's not the scores the schools get, it's not the amount of money the parents have, it's about having good parents. PERIOD! If I ever have kids, they will turn out just the same whether they live in Orange and go to VP, or live N. Tustin and go to Foothill, or live in Orchard Hills and go to Northwood, or (gawd forbid) live in FV and go to FV. Why? Because I will raise them just the same, and I don't need to be dependent on some dumb ass school to raise them to be successful, that is my job... not any other person's job, but me... as a parent, I am ultimately responsible for their success.
 
K, if you don't think test scores are of any values, I guess you can send your kids to any school and they should do comparably well in any environment.

But if you think test scores reflect a school's progress... let's compare Villa Park with Fountain Valley.



Villa Park API

1999.................780

2008.................802



Fountain Valley API

1999.................739

2008.................854



In nine years, Villa Park gained 22 points. In that same time, FV gained 115 points.

Doesn't that indicate that VP is stagnating or getting worse while FV is improving by leaps and bounds?



Graphrix, I'm pretty sure that when you attended VP, it was a better school than FV. But things do change.

If you're thinking about residing in an area for a long time, you must consider not just the current conditions, but also the future trends.



Irvine, for instance, has a premium over other cities due to its reputable schools.

But if you don't think the quality of the school would affect your child, I guess it shouldn't matter what school they attend.

It's simply based on different views and perspectives.

But personally, I've seen too many incidents where kids that don't care about academics hinder the learning from those who do.

If teachers didn't spend so much time dealing with misbehaving students, they can devote more time on nurturing the motivated ones.



Of course parental influence will shape a child's success, but you shouldn't disregard peer pressure.



Another point... Fountain Valley and Irvine are primarily middle income cities... there is less of a prominence of class conflicts.

Villa Park and Newport Harbor have the low income kids and the ultra wealthy ones.
 
I agree partially with both hs_teacher and graphix. I've a couple of close friends who are teachers, and they tend to say the following:



"Parents who take an active interest in their kids' education directly and indirectly contribute to the success of a school"



E.g.

1. Parents' who care about their kids education will follow-up on their kids homework

2. Parents' will participate actively in PTA

3. (Sometimes) caring parents will move to areas with good schools (which in turn will boost the API scores - since these are the parents who care anyway)



I know a couple (both teachers working in TUSD) who lived in Tustin (decent neighborhood), moved to Irvine once they had kids, because they would not want to send their kids to the same school they taught.



IMHO if it is a question of "above average" vs "super high achieving" school then the job as a parent is what would be the differentiating factor, but comparing a below average, average, and above average school a lot more factors come into play, including language barrier (especially in lower elementary school), misbehaving kids (due to parental neglect etc.).



Just my $.02
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1245079357]I will say this one last time, it's not the scores the schools get, it's not the amount of money the parents have, it's about having good parents. PERIOD! If I ever have kids, they will turn out just the same whether they live in Orange and go to VP, or live N. Tustin and go to Foothill, or live in Orchard Hills and go to Northwood, or (gawd forbid) live in FV and go to FV. Why? Because I will raise them just the same, and I don't need to be dependent on some dumb ass school to raise them to be successful, that is my job... not any other person's job, but me... as a parent, I am ultimately responsible for their success.</blockquote>
While theoretically this may be true and it's something every parent wants to believe... realistically, the environment of where your kid is learning is a big factor. In schools where the soup du jour is just getting by and trying not to be caught by the undercover narc, the atmosphere is not as conducive as the school where you have to compete with the asian kids who all have full-time tutors to give them their edge.



So to connect what you are saying, if your kid is in a school where the parents don't care that much and even if you do your job way above what everyone else is doing... it's going to be that much harder because his/her peers will affect your child... no matter what type of super-parent you are. Kids tend to want to be like everyone else, so if the atmosphere is coasting along then that's what most will tend to gravitate toward... if it's hyper competitive to get the A++++ and be top of the class... than that's what they will strive for.



You see it as early as pre-school... I didn't teach my kids to say "poo-poo face" and hit other kids... but no matter how much I tell them that behavior is not okay... they'll do it because everyone else does it.



That's why it does matter where you send your kid. And I'm not saying this just to contradict you (well... maybe)... but moreso because it's a psychological truth. There are exceptions (you may have been one yourself)... but it's the rule that happens most. It's not the only rule... but it's not something to be disregarded because you think you are the world's best father.
 
Bad schools like the one that I went to had a amazing teacher like Linda purdy. All 32 of her students did finished college and became very involved citizens in society by living very productive life. I was at the bottom of her class. My class mate Arturo Vargas a graduate of Stanford was recently appointed to an important political position by President Obama. This was his article from 2001. 50% of her students attended Ivy League, Cal Tech, Stanford, Berkeley, and Claremont Colleges. 5 surgeons, 6 lawyers, 8 scientists, 4 Politicians and 1 professional bloggers. I lost touch with the rest. My high school ranked last in the country. The inspiration comes from the teachers. When student feel worthy of themselves they strives for excellence even for the bottom feeder like me.



<a href="http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20">http://latinola.com/story.php?story=20</a>



That same years Mr Jaime from Garfield High in East LA started his math program and recognized for his achievement and Linda Purdy was in the shadow of Escalante. Several years later most of his students achieved the impossible from a ghetto HS by passing the AP Calculus exam.
 
I totally agree with IHO. Instead of the Triads, cholos and the Crips I had to hang out with I very much preferred to hang out with her good influence at University High.



<img src="http://tastefulcelebs.com/wp-content/photos/Dita_Von_Teese2.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="hs_teacher" date=1244790012][quote author="acpme" date=1244769041]i still chuckle when i notice there's rarely a post by HS that doesn't mention FV.



best neighborhoods? newport beach, irvine, fountain valley

best schools? uni, san marino, harvard westlake, exeter, philips, fountain valley

most historic cities? paris, rome, athens, babylon, fountain valley

best american presidents? lincoln, washington, fountain valley</blockquote>


Speaking of which, Fountain Valley has a festival at Mile Square Park this weekend. :)

I just really like coastal cities (Seal Beach, Huntington Beach, Foutain Valley, Costa Mesa, & Newport Beach) with good schools.

To think about it some more, if I can afford to buy a house in any of those cities, I would.

Actually, I can see myself living in HB, FV, or CM within the next couple of years.</blockquote>


I recommend Los Amigos High School in Fountain Valley and the housing tracts around the Edinger/Newhope and Edinger/Harbor intersections. Modern art is commonly displayed along the cinder block walls and the proximity to Walmart is fantastic.
 
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