jcaraway_IHB
New member
k.o. said:
hey k.o., i think we are having an interesting debate here, so do you think we can let the big boys talk?
Columbus Grove - Buyer Beware
- Thread starter NewVOC_IHB
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NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
hey k.o., i think we are having an interesting debate here, so do you think we can let the big boys talk?
Yessir! Whatever you say!
Sorry to butt in on your conversation. Guess I'm not [insert redeeming quality here] enough to be included.
Guess I will slink away to the cesspool I came from.
That being said, did you all catch the OC Register article a couple months ago about the HOA in Irvine fining the kid who had his van in the driveway? Please tell me how that situation showed good judgment from the HOA.
Actually, I have EVERY right to ask him. And of course, he has every right to say no. But, such is life, and I for one, would be fine to deal with these types of consequences without an HOA to dictate how either of us should be acting.
You also said:
Why would you want the police or the beuracratic and politcal mess of a city resolving your problems as opposed to a limited community run governance structure?
Why? Because all the problems listed here are already under the jurisdiction of the local police and government. The HOA then is just another layer of bureaucracy that wasn't there to begin with, that I am now paying for! And mind you, we're already paying for the city government and the police! Why would you pay for two plumbers!?
Clearly, I'm a proponent of smaller, limited government, while you...are not. Oh well. =)
hey k.o., i think we are having an interesting debate here, so do you think we can let the big boys talk?
jcaraway_IHB
New member
"If there were more instances of neighbors talking to each other and less instances of anonymous tattling to HOAs, I think neighborhoods would feel more like communities."
It's pathetic to blame the HOA's, it's the people that make communities, not the governance structure. (i.e. senior living communities and Celebration in Florida).
It's pathetic to blame the HOA's, it's the people that make communities, not the governance structure. (i.e. senior living communities and Celebration in Florida).
jcaraway_IHB
New member
hancock park? isn't there a big problem with these older development and no just their deed restrictions, but their hoa's as well expiring and leaving many owners at the mercy of individual neighbors to maintain certain areas of their developments, notably hillsides abutting their back yards? Without an HOA, owners need to come together and either pool their own money together to perform essential maintenance on property previously owned by the HOA or maintain on their own volition which is futile if their neighbor fails to maintain property that's affecting their's plus their neighbors lots.
I don't think any attorney would ever say that dissolving an HOA or deed restrictions that had been in place for 30 years is a better case scenario than electing to renew.
I don't think any attorney would ever say that dissolving an HOA or deed restrictions that had been in place for 30 years is a better case scenario than electing to renew.
k.o._IHB
New member
jcaraway said:
Yessir! Whatever you say!
Sorry to butt in on your conversation. Guess I'm not [insert redeeming quality here] enough to be included.
Guess I will slink away to the cesspool I came from.
That being said, did you all catch the OC Register article a couple months ago about the HOA in Irvine fining the kid who had his van in the driveway? Please tell me how that situation showed good judgment from the HOA.
jcaraway_IHB
New member
Don't just post to make a cheap shot, i do that and it get's me nowhere.
Look, again you are applying one, limited and extreme example across the board (if you argue that it wasn't extreme, well it was in the paper), this time at least isn't based on your own personal grudge but ti's a stupid arguement. Furthermore, i think the hoa and the kid with the van came to compromise agreeable to both parties, something the police or the city would not have been able to do which would have ruled in favor of the kid. Had there not been an hoa to mediate, and if the general attitude in the neighborhood was against that van, it is likely that there may have been a physical altercation and at minimum vandalism to the van. Everyone's a winner!
Look, again you are applying one, limited and extreme example across the board (if you argue that it wasn't extreme, well it was in the paper), this time at least isn't based on your own personal grudge but ti's a stupid arguement. Furthermore, i think the hoa and the kid with the van came to compromise agreeable to both parties, something the police or the city would not have been able to do which would have ruled in favor of the kid. Had there not been an hoa to mediate, and if the general attitude in the neighborhood was against that van, it is likely that there may have been a physical altercation and at minimum vandalism to the van. Everyone's a winner!
jcaraway said:
Actually, I have EVERY right to ask him. And of course, he has every right to say no. But, such is life, and I for one, would be fine to deal with these types of consequences without an HOA to dictate how either of us should be acting.
You also said:
Why would you want the police or the beuracratic and politcal mess of a city resolving your problems as opposed to a limited community run governance structure?
Why? Because all the problems listed here are already under the jurisdiction of the local police and government. The HOA then is just another layer of bureaucracy that wasn't there to begin with, that I am now paying for! And mind you, we're already paying for the city government and the police! Why would you pay for two plumbers!?
Clearly, I'm a proponent of smaller, limited government, while you...are not. Oh well. =)
jcaraway_IHB
New member
skek, i appreciate the sympathy and i apologize for the abrutness of my response. However, your revised statement is akin to stating that if people weren't corrupt, we wouldn't need laws. Fact is people are passive aggressive just as people are corrupt. You are stating the obivous.
Your arguement works in reverse too, HOA's are necessary because people are so passive aggressive. Yea....welcome to the darkside.
Your arguement works in reverse too, HOA's are necessary because people are so passive aggressive. Yea....welcome to the darkside.
jcaraway_IHB
New member
how can you call yourself a promonent of small and limited government when you prefer the police and the city enforcing the broad and obscure code as opposed to a community HOA which you have far greater influence over? If anything, an HOA cuts out "big government".
The point is, you can't deal with "these types of consequences" if you don't have an HOA. If the neighbor parks a large vehicle in front of your house, it's out of your hands as it's in the public right of way and you have no recourse.
You're not paying for two plumbers, you're paying for a plumber and an electrician.
The point is, you can't deal with "these types of consequences" if you don't have an HOA. If the neighbor parks a large vehicle in front of your house, it's out of your hands as it's in the public right of way and you have no recourse.
You're not paying for two plumbers, you're paying for a plumber and an electrician.
acpme_IHB
New member
i think there's two debates going on here (feel free to join in either k.o.)
to facilitate the maintenance of common areas, an hoa is both practical and arguably necessary. none of us are proposing homeowners need to water the shrubbery on a hillside themselves. but the role of the hoa should be limited to what is absolutely necessary.
parking enforcement, for example, is NOT necessary. we already pay for those services.
"The Irvine Police Department is responsible for the enforcement of laws related to parking within the city of Irvine."
RV parking on residential streets would clearly qualify for a number of violations. for one, most cities ban parking RVs on the street to begin with. i believe irvine is included in that because they are currently leasing the old runways at el toro for RV parking. even if technically legal to park, blocking visibility is not. also, unless the owner is commuting to work in his RV every day, its likely being parked on the street for days at a time. past 72 hrs the police should be notified to mark the car as abandoned.
it’s the people that make communities, not the governance structure. (i.e. senior living communities and Celebration in Florida).
chicken or the egg -- although an overbearing hoa certainly doesnt help the problem. implement an hoa that unnecessarily controls how residents live their lives, it shouldnt come as a surprise when residents themselves feel entitled to butt into the business of their neighbors. prickly hoa makes prickly neighbors.
the example you gave of celebration FL is the perfect example of hoa gone wild. disney's master planning of the community reached into every facet of life there. not just architectural, landscaping, and parking, but the resale mkt, retail and economic development, and even school curriculum.
essay on celebration controversies
http://www.intbau.org/essay8.htm
to facilitate the maintenance of common areas, an hoa is both practical and arguably necessary. none of us are proposing homeowners need to water the shrubbery on a hillside themselves. but the role of the hoa should be limited to what is absolutely necessary.
parking enforcement, for example, is NOT necessary. we already pay for those services.
"The Irvine Police Department is responsible for the enforcement of laws related to parking within the city of Irvine."
RV parking on residential streets would clearly qualify for a number of violations. for one, most cities ban parking RVs on the street to begin with. i believe irvine is included in that because they are currently leasing the old runways at el toro for RV parking. even if technically legal to park, blocking visibility is not. also, unless the owner is commuting to work in his RV every day, its likely being parked on the street for days at a time. past 72 hrs the police should be notified to mark the car as abandoned.
it’s the people that make communities, not the governance structure. (i.e. senior living communities and Celebration in Florida).
chicken or the egg -- although an overbearing hoa certainly doesnt help the problem. implement an hoa that unnecessarily controls how residents live their lives, it shouldnt come as a surprise when residents themselves feel entitled to butt into the business of their neighbors. prickly hoa makes prickly neighbors.
the example you gave of celebration FL is the perfect example of hoa gone wild. disney's master planning of the community reached into every facet of life there. not just architectural, landscaping, and parking, but the resale mkt, retail and economic development, and even school curriculum.
essay on celebration controversies
http://www.intbau.org/essay8.htm
jcaraway_IHB
New member
i believe police scope does not include parking enforcement on private property.
The RV example is not applicable to every jurisdiction, it's a city by city decision.
As i understand it, prices have held up better in celebration largely due to the HOA (i concede that this appeals to niche, the glassy eyed, prozac fileld niche).
An overbearing HOA is a result of overbearing people. HOA's are run by people, HOA's don't run people.
I disgree that two debates are going on here, maintenance and enforcement of the rules and regs go hand in hand. If you want an incredibly glorious debate, try cutting down what an HOA is limited to as necessary, even all of you libertarians won't be able to agree upon that.
The RV example is not applicable to every jurisdiction, it's a city by city decision.
As i understand it, prices have held up better in celebration largely due to the HOA (i concede that this appeals to niche, the glassy eyed, prozac fileld niche).
An overbearing HOA is a result of overbearing people. HOA's are run by people, HOA's don't run people.
I disgree that two debates are going on here, maintenance and enforcement of the rules and regs go hand in hand. If you want an incredibly glorious debate, try cutting down what an HOA is limited to as necessary, even all of you libertarians won't be able to agree upon that.
VOCIrvine_IHB
New member
Did anyone noticed at Maegan's law web site?
There is a registered sex offender living in VOC Irvine.
There is a registered sex offender living in VOC Irvine.
boomben_IHB
New member
,