Auto Dealership Deathwatch

I like IR's analysis better because he puts spaces between paragraphs.



That said, I agree with that sentiment. Big Three is going down, no matter how much money we taxpayers give it temporarily.
 
I had a chevy camaro SS. It is utter garbage. I spent more on maintenance during its 5 year tenure with me than the car itself. Transmission went out, catylac converter, drive shaft + stickshift, both power windows..twice, rear axle fluid leaked and had to replace the whole real axle as it melted. The worst car ever and luckly I had supplimental insurance to cover all that. The hassle though of not having a car every other month was a pain itself. Because of that, I vowed never to buy GM again and I view Ford the same way. I hope both companies rott.
 
What needs to happen is all 3 need to file for BK and reorganize. Break the union contracts, break the dealer contracts, and trim the fat whereve possible to come out of BK much leaner and more efficient.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1226566223]What needs to happen is all 3 need to file for BK and reorganize. Break the union contracts, break the dealer contracts, and trim the fat whereve possible to come out of BK much leaner and more efficient.</blockquote>


I 100% agree. Somehow VW is opening a new plan next month here. With all the foreign auto builders here in the US we are still the largest producer of automobiles in the world on our own soil. They can operate profitably here because they don't have the yolk of long term pension liability, healthcare liability and Union contracts that our big three have. BK, close all the plants and open them a week later with "help wanted" signs out front. Reetool and start producing compacts again....they will survive. What the government will be injecting in them now will mostly go to all that liability...sorry, let em burn.
 
VW is building a plant in West Virginia or some other formerly Confederate state that has heavily subsidised them showing up.



They will provide a bunch of jobs, but they pay $12 a hour and are non union, as opposed to the standard UAW deal that is about $40 or so.



Ford and GM make fine product. It would be a lot better if they didn't have that social welfare program known as the UAW strapped to their back.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226571127]VW is building a plant in West Virginia or some other formerly Confederate state that has heavily subsidised them showing up.



They will provide a bunch of jobs, but they pay $12 a hour and are non union, as opposed to the standard UAW deal that is about $40 or so.



Ford and GM make fine product. It would be a lot better if they didn't have that social welfare program known as the UAW strapped to their back.</blockquote>


I dunno if it is $73.50 an hour I no like.



http://seekingalpha.com/article/105...ers-with-73-20-per-hour-labor?ref=patrick.net
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Part of the issue with American autoworkers is that we do not have national healthcare (i.e. Japan/Germany) or post-retirement security. That puts a lot of costs upon the employer who has to provide for all that.
 
I agree but you have to take that into account when comparing the wage to other auto makers and the general work force. Even on that field they seem a bit expensive.
 
And if you look at what they are doing in the new South, they build cars for about $22 an hour - all costs included.



The cheapest place to build cars on the planet is in the USA - but not Detroit. It's in formerly Confederate southern states.
 
The UAW gets benefits for it's memebers that the rest of us would never ever be able to get. Let them pick what they want to do, cut the fat from the current benefits or lose millions of jobs. Let's see which one they pick.
 
Power to them. Toyota yanked 1800 high paying jobs out of Torrance two years ago and move them to Tennessee. Most went, and even though I am a CA native I can understand why. Doing business in this state is comprabale to hari-kari. Costs here are ludicrous. Until this state and others pull their collective heads out these southern states are going to cherry pick our job markets for years to come.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1226618117]The UAW gets benefits for it's memebers that the rest of us would never ever be able to get. Let them pick what they want to do, cut the fat from the current benefits or lose millions of jobs. Let's see which one they pick.</blockquote>


Never EVER underestimate the power of stupidity....



Do you remember when GM was going to shut down a plant and UAW came in and said ,"We will NOT conciede on anything..."

joy

-bix
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226617788]And if you look at what they are doing in the new South, they build cars for about $22 an hour - all costs included.



The cheapest place to build cars on the planet is in the USA - but not Detroit. It's in formerly Confederate southern states.</blockquote>




NoVas, what do you think their hourly costs will be in 30 years, when they have a full age spectrum workforce?





It is easy to have low costs when all of your employees have only 5 years seniority, are young and healthy, and your part of their retirement contributions is low. Excluding the retiree benefits of the Big3, I don't know how different it will be.
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1226629689][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1226617788]And if you look at what they are doing in the new South, they build cars for about $22 an hour - all costs included.



The cheapest place to build cars on the planet is in the USA - but not Detroit. It's in formerly Confederate southern states.</blockquote>




NoVas, what do you think their hourly costs will be in 30 years, when they have a full age spectrum workforce?





It is easy to have low costs when all of your employees have only 5 years seniority, are young and healthy, and your part of their retirement contributions is low. Excluding the retiree benefits of the Big3, I don't know how different it will be.</blockquote>


I don't know, but considering that they don't have an employer provided pension or 100% employer funded health care program, it would have to be less than what the UAW deal is now. I am quite aware of the connumdrum caused by leagacy costs. The UAW issue is not the same as the airline issue - the UAW got hog fat in the early 1990s and is about to get slaughtered for thier trouble.



The UAW and the big three have a symbiotic relationship with each other. The UAW is unwilling to make the consessions it needs to allow the big three to survive, and thus has decided to haul the industry into bustoville. The UAW feels it's memebership has given up plenty and sees no reason to give any more. They flat don't trust managment at the big three. They never have.



This is the biggest argument for nationalized health care there is. And an even bigger one for allowing private pensions to be habitually underfunded.
 
yes, it is a conundrum.



Both the 3, and the UAW are living in the past. Big3 by not designing competative products for the modern era, the UAW for clinging to their (guns and religion) wages and benefits.



But how does the situation resolve? Just shutting them down is going to result in a huge hole/pain.
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1226635257]yes, it is a conundrum.



Both the 3, and the UAW are living in the past. Big3 by not designing competative products for the modern era, the UAW for clinging to their (guns and religion) wages and benefits.



But how does the situation resolve? Just shutting them down is going to result in a huge hole/pain.</blockquote>


The short answer... "yes". I have worked in both the aerospace and a little in the auto industry. Both have issues with unions.... Instead of playing along to get along, they both one to have "one" over the other. Fairness have nothing to do it....



I worked in several places where they had 3-4 guys busting ass to get things going and keep things going. The union were there, drinking coffee, shooting the breeze and just hanging out. Their contract FORBID them from being fired/laid off if the work was automated. So we get automated products with guys just dragging the company down with excess costs....



They were more than happy to tell you they made 100k+ doing nothing. I say, let them burn.



-bix
 
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