Additional Cost and Options for New Home Purchase

[bones]

asdf

 

[eyephone]

Looks like the marriage is off.

Maybe you can win her back by buying her tickets to Jeter's last baseball game. 

 

[bones]

[quote author=eyephone link=topic=12090.msg241080#msg241080 date=140asdf

 

[usctrojancpa]

Looks like the marriage is off.

I'd still marry her if she ran up the upgrades only if she was 1) cute and 2) made 80%+ of my income (per Qwerty's rule).  If both are not met, marriage is off. 

 

[eyephone]

Looks like the marriage is off.

Maybe you can win her back by buying her tickets to Jeter's last baseball game. 

@fenway?  Heard avg prices for that game is in the $400s. IHO will surely ditch any sig other before shelling out that kinda dough to watch qwerty bat one last time. It's ok though. IHO prob doesn't meet my 80% income requirement anyway (qwerty rule)

Rofl

 

[Paris167]

While going through this process right now I can tell you that even with being conservative but doing the basics through builder like counters, backsplash, electrical etc we're at $80k BEFORE flooring, window coverings or landscape. This is for a 3300 sqft 4bd//4br home. And design center pricing is reasonable compared to costs after COE on those basics I mentioned.

But maybe some of the realtors can comment on this - if you choose nice upgrades that make your home look "model-esque" I think when it comes time for resale you're in a better position than the same home with tile counters, no backsplash, white walls and plane jane looking. If it has a more custom (but tasteful) look it'll sell faster for better rate of return on your investment (how much I know depends on the current market).

Plus, I agree with NYT - if you spend a lot of time at home you want a beautiful home that welcomes you and that you enjoy. It'll prevent depression ,anxiety and lead to a happier life (all the things I feed the Mr as to why we need the nice upgrades) 

Also with doing things via outside contractors at close of escrow do you think the price depends on what part of town you're in - Newport vs Irvine vs Lake Forest vs Santa Ana (in no particular order)? I bet you a yard in the hood of santa ana gets a much cheaper quote for the same product than Irvine (nothing against Santa Ana  )

 

[irvinehomeshopper]

Let me help to rephrase that. 25% is the cost of the home and land and 75% went to the developers pocket.

I must really be a 99%er.

If I'm buying a brand new home and it cost more than $1m, I don't see why I would have to pay another $300k. The $1m+ should include some of that high end stuff already.

#1stworldproblems

Amen to that! Why do they give you thermafoil and crap carpet throughout the place when paying so much. Have you seen the standards the builders give in Atlanta - first class all the way for a $500k home on 1 acre. And we get nothing - sometimes I feel like we're living in Manhattan for the size of home and prices they demand.

The problem is people (suckers) just pay the $$ through their nose so why wouldn't big business take advantage.

Panda is that you?  

Price is driven by demand and location.  75% of what you are paying for is the land, not the structure.

 

[OCgasman]

Back on topic:

I would not want to put more 5% of the purchase cost in upgrades on a new home.

Even at that, I think $50k on a $1m house is already too much... if you do the fans, the cans and flooring... that shouldn't be more than $25k on a 2500sft house.

5% is difficult in a $1M house, not impossible, but very little customization.  I know you would never buy one of the new construction houses due to the layout, but let's take a generic 3000 sq ft 4 bedroom 4 bath $1M with one bedroom downstairs, great room, dining area near kitchen, loft upstairs as an example.

Just on the recessed lighting, each bedroom with 4 lights, great room with 9, and say the loft is decent sized, 6 lights there.  Ballpark $135 for each can so $135 x 31 = $4185

Let's say ceiling fan in each bedroom and loft cuz it's nice to have circulation up there.  $200 per j-box so 5 x $200 = $1000.  Fans vary in price from the ugly cheapo Lowes/HD setup as low as $99 to hi end Casablanca/Minkaire which can be well over $500.  Split the difference say $250 per so $1250 for fans, but you're handy so you will install them yourself saving labor.

So just for cans and fans, that's ~$6500 right off the bat for the electrical that you want from the builder.

That leaves you $43500, so around ~$14-15 per sq ft for flooring.  You can get nice flooring in that range.  But let's say, you don't need that kinda nice flooring and can manage with $10 sq ft saving you $13500.

Well, you can't convert the California room to a conservatory cuz those start around $15k.  This price range doesn't have the tandem spot so no need to convert that area cuz it doesn't exist.  You could get bifold doors but it would eat away most of the $13500.  But you hate flies in the house, so it isn't an upgrade you would get.

How about additional insulation.  Personally I think this is a must, but others might pass.  3000 sq ft home probably around $2500.  Let's say you think it's worthwhile and do this option, now you still have $11500.

Cabinetry can get expensive so let's say you're ok with thermafoil or standard generic maple recessed. 

Countertops and splashes.  You're gonna have to fight your wife on this one cuz I think the standard granite is ugly and looks dated.  Some builders are sneaky here cuz while the kitchen granite is standard, the butler's pantry area (if you have one) is not.  So you have to at least upgrade that area, or better yet just get a granite or quartz you and the wife really like.  This is a high traffic area and well worth an upgrade in my opinion.  Say $4000 so now left with $7500.

Gotta buy a fridge, but it's a 42" built in space.  You've said before you're cool with a freestanding fridge there, so you can bring your old one over.  (BTW, if you ever do buy a house with a built-in spot, for the love of humanity, please just buy a built-in)  I assume you're ok with standard cooktop and wall oven.  Although, this one is tough.  If your family cooks a lot, I think upgrading to a gas range with electric wall oven is nice to have, lots of versatility.

Master bath.  Say you want some nice tile, doesn't have to be complete surround all the way up including the ceiling, although that look is awesome.  Say just regular upgrade, another $1000.  IMHO, the master bath countertops and powder room should be upgraded, so I'm gonna spend another $1000 of your money there.  Down to $5500.  I also think you should get framed mirrors in the master bath and powder.  I'm gonna spend another $1000 of your money there.  The secondary bathrooms are ok with standard.

$4500 left

Ok, let's stop there cuz you need to get window treatments, paint, garage epoxy and organization if you want that stuff, closet organizers, maybe some nice trim like crown moldings, but all after COE and after your 3rd party flooring company is finished.  It'll be tough to get all this for $4500 but no need to do it all at once, do it over time.  Also we didn't even discuss low voltage, adding more outlets, screen doors, mirrored doors, extra cabinetry in the upstairs hallway or master area, sink or faucet upgrades, chandeliers and pendant lighting, etc.

You're right, you can do it for 5%.  I actually liked doing this exercise.  But, we all have different priorities and what we want in a home. 

That 48" built in spot...I'm gonna get a Subzero for it, but that's me and my wife and it'll cost a pretty penny.  I also want an undercounter beverage fridge cuz I drink a lot of beer and wine, those are also pricey.  I let my wife pick out her dream kitchen cuz she's the one that uses it the most and she has great taste.  I give you carte blanche to pick out what she wants.  I also know guests hang out in the kitchen area so I want that space beautiful.  I trust my wife's vision.  I am a big fan of full extension drawers, but some builders are sneaky and they only give you those with an upgrade to soft close drawers.  I like soft close drawers also, but usually won't get those cuz the builder rips you off, but if it's the only way to get full extension drawers, then I'll bite the bullet.  Most ppl probably don't care about this, but I'm OCD.  I'm kinda blas? about the stair system, but my wife is very specific, guess who wins that battle.  I let my wife pick the flooring, but just ask her to keep it reasonable.  Also, some decor items while expensive add to the vibe of the home and individualize it.  They don't need to be from the design center and most can be done after but are still expensive.  Wainscoting, cased openings, chandeliers in the stairwell, ceiling beams, all lovely.  We entertain a lot and do so inside and out.  Therefore, we will spend more money on the yard than most ppl.  I love having a big ass TV outside someplace.

Yeah, you can do the bare minimum, but most ppl wanna make the home their own and if they spend more, it doesn't mean they got ripped off, it just means they spent more, that's all.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

@OCGasman:

1st: A new 3000sft 4br/4ba for $1m in Irvine? I don't think those exist anymore.
2nd: Some of those upgrades should be included if you're spending $1m+ (which is what I was saying). At least cans in the living spaces (not the bedrooms) usually are.
3rd: Again, I would only do flooring (maybe) and subway tile layout in the master shower, everything else stays standard (depending on what the standard is.

I think I can get away with less than $50k.

There is a difference between spending more to make it your own, and spending more through the builder... one is a ripoff.

Again, electrical, cans, insulation... all that stuff should be included in "luxury" homes, the fact you have to pay for it and it already put Paris at $80k in the hole before flooring is criminal.

Do you not get what I'm saying?

 

[bones]

[asdf

 

[eyephone]

Looks like the marriage is off.

Maybe you can win her back by buying her tickets to Jeter's last baseball game. 

@fenway?  Heard avg prices for that game is in the $400s. IHO will surely ditch any sig other before shelling out that kinda dough to watch qwerty bat one last time. It's ok though. IHO prob doesn't meet my 80% income requirement anyway (qwerty rule)

Better yet, maybe he should buy you tickets for Jeter's last HOME game at Yankees Stadium. There is a suite going for $244k. If that's too high, there are available suites ranging from $30k to $98k. 
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/2014/07/post_40.html

 

[OCgasman]

@OCGasman:

1st: A new 3000sft 4br/4ba for $1m in Irvine? I don't think those exist anymore.
2nd: Some of those upgrades should be included if you're spending $1m+ (which is what I was saying). At least cans in the living spaces (not the bedrooms) usually are.
3rd: Again, I would only do flooring (maybe) and subway tile layout in the master shower, everything else stays standard (depending on what the standard is.

I think I can get away with less than $50k.

There is a difference between spending more to make it your own, and spending more through the builder... one is a ripoff.

Again, electrical, cans, insulation... all that stuff should be included in "luxury" homes, the fact you have to pay for it and it already put Paris at $80k in the hole before flooring is criminal.

Do you not get what I'm saying?

There's "should be" and there's reality.  Today, builders don't include those, just a fact.  Trust me, I wish those things were included.  I get what you're saying, that the design center can be more expensive, but we've discussed before that going through the design center is cheaper for some stuff than doing after COE.  We can argue back and forth that it should be included in the base price, but it's a moot point cuz it isn't.

All I'm saying is that it's very easy to customize a home to a person's individual taste through the design center on elements that cost less through the design center vs doing it after COE.  Structural upgrades can be over $50k and should be done through the builder.  Upgraded appliances is sometimes the same or cheaper than retail and appliances can run over $20k easy.  Upgrading countertops, splash and cabinetry is sometimes cheaper than ripping it out and redo'ing it and those three elements can run over $20k.  Electrical is usually over $5k.  Insulation is over $3k.  Low voltage can run well over $10k, even over $20k and would be more expensive to do after.  Bath surrounds and extra showerheads, even if you would do the minimum, someone might go extravagant and still might be cheaper than after COE due to demo and plumbing.  It just adds up quickly and these are for items that are better to go with the design center. 

Say someone wanted whole house intercom, whole house vacuum, surround sound in ceiling speakers for the great room, structured interior and exterior speakers, and home automation but all these cost $25k but $30k after COE, did they get ripped off?  Of course not, they just spent money on items they found useful to their lifestyle.  It's not something you or I would do, but see how easy it is to spend $25k on an item that's cheaper through the builder.

Also, ppl have different levels of disposable income.  Maybe they don't wanna deal with the mess and inconvenience of doing things after COE.  Convenience costs and some ppl are happy to pay it, doesn't mean they got ripped off, just means they were willing to pay the opportunity cost for turnkey.

And even if someone did choose to go outside the design center, some design elements are just expensive no matter what.  You can either pay the design center or pay out of pocket, either way still paying, maybe save a little on the back end.  I know this thread is about how much to spend through the design center, but to me it's more about what to spend on your home in total.  How about instead of what % of base cost did you pay the design center, we say what % of base cost did you pay to upgrade your home through the design center and after.  Very easy to get to over 20% just for the interior.  And furniture and decorating is a whole different ballgame.  Yard is so individual specific that you really can't generalize.

 

[irvinehomeowner]

If you're going in total, this is where new gets more expensive than newer resale because of landscaping and window coverings.

I don't think my 5% on interior upgrades is that far off. USC said most of his clients who buy new homes spend 4-6%.

We have at least a few people who bought recently or even in the last 5 years, what were their percentages?

If Paris is buying a $1.2m home, $80k is about 7%. What % did qwerty spend? What % did ZeroLot spend? What % did bones spend? I don't think that's too much OS... or is it shameful to admit you spent 20%?

The one resale we bought, where we replaced ALL the flooring, painted and replaced almost our entire fence with block wall (on a large lot) was about 2%. When we went to the design center for the new home we almost bought in late 2000s, we were only going to spend about 2% (just 1st floor hard surface area flooring and window coverings).

20% on just interior for new seems high to me. This is why I bring up resale if you're spending that much extra on a *new* home... get a better location and a better lot size and no mello roos for that 20% price difference.

I guess it just boggles my mind. 20% on a new car purchase is not an apple-to-orange to 20% on a new home by price factor alone. Spending $200k on a home you already are paying $1m+ is crazy to me, that's an extra $40k down if you are doing 20% and that's a nice car on its own.

Like I said, I'm a 99%er, so maybe I'm in the wrong conversation with all you high rollers that can buy $1m cash and then pull another $200k out of your pocket to paint LV on the walls.

So I guess everyone was lying when they said #JustGetTheCansAndTheFans on all those design center threads.

 

[Paris167]

@OCGasman:

1st: A new 3000sft 4br/4ba for $1m in Irvine? I don't think those exist anymore.
2nd: Some of those upgrades should be included if you're spending $1m+ (which is what I was saying). At least cans in the living spaces (not the bedrooms) usually are.
3rd: Again, I would only do flooring (maybe) and subway tile layout in the master shower, everything else stays standard (depending on what the standard is.

I think I can get away with less than $50k.

There is a difference between spending more to make it your own, and spending more through the builder... one is a ripoff.

Again, electrical, cans, insulation... all that stuff should be included in "luxury" homes, the fact you have to pay for it and it already put Paris at $80k in the hole before flooring is criminal.

Do you not get what I'm saying?

Well we bought a "luxury" home with not so many included luxury items included in the sales price  :'(

We did compare costs on some of the features we chose through design center and found the design center to be reasonable. For example a 42in built in refrigerator for $5600 - I looked outside and couldn't find one significantly cheaper since I'd also pay installation charges after COE. I didn't want to break up dry wall for electrical etc obvious stuff after COE so went with DC. Those basic things with some nice granite counters and backsplashes and we're already at $80k. But hopefull it'll be worth it in the end with many years of happy home life and then hope we can recoup some of it at resale.

OC, esp Irvine is expensive no doubt - we certainly all pay a great deal to live in this beautiful manicured city

 

[notTHEoc]

I'm also not really following this discussion.
One person may prefer a new $1.0mil "base home" with $200k of upgrades.
Another person may prefer a new $1.150mil "base home" with $50k of upgrades.
Same $1.2mil all-in budget for both. Isn't it just personal preference again on which home you would rather have?

 

[qwerty]

What % did qwerty spend?

we spent about 7% at the design center and about another 5% on landscape/hardscape/window treatments. we upgraded the kitchen granite, cabinetry throughout, upgraded carpet, upgraded 20x20 tile, canned lights in 4 bedrooms + loft, additional lights in garage, extra cable outlets in a couple of rooms, dedicated outlet in garage for fridge, fourth bathroom option was 5K included in base price so im counting that in the 7%. we didnt do jboxes for ceiling fans. its all about the AC in this house.  the main thing we didnt do because we missed the cutoff was the master bath countertops and tile in the shower. but that probably wouldnt have been more than 5K. So 7% at design center and 5% for landscaping/windows. 12% total. WL didnt have a lot of options though (except for flooring) so there wasnt much more we could do.  we got most of the house covered for 7% - im not including appliances (fridge, washer/dryer). one thing i wanted that they didnt offer was wrought iron for the stairwell.

 

[bones]

asdf

 

[OCgasman]

Also, as you go higher in base price, the number of options will increase as well as the price for those options cuz the options will be more hi end.

I'm guessing that USC's clients bought condos or small SFRs.  Condos and small SFRs won't have options such as whole house vacuum, Christmas light outlet under eaves, whole house intercom/automation.  Nobody is putting in a Subzero fridge and Wolf range at the lower end.  You might see laminate flooring on lower priced homes, but at >$1M, real wood at >20 sq ft isn't unheard of.  I bet nobody contemplated marble at the lower end.  And a lot of buyers at this level are purchasing their first home and money might be tight.  Plus, a lot of buyers on their first home purchase only plan to stay for less than 5 years, doesn't make sense to upgrade highly.

You have to compare apples to apples.  % based on base price at certain price range of that base price.  Hi end homes get hi end upgrades or should IMO.  Thermafoil and 6 inch tile on bathroom countertops doesn't belong in houses over $1M.  People buying $1.5M and above will just upgrade more with higher priced items.

 

[eyephone]

It all depends on person's budget.

I do believe upgrading the following is a must: upgrading kitchen cabinets thermafoil to wood, recess lights in EVERY room, bathroom countertops.

Things you can do after: flooring, landscaping, window treatments, paint the inside, garage epoxy floor, crown molding, etc.....

 

[irvinehomeowner]

Also, as you go higher in base price, the number of options will increase as well as the price for those options cuz the options will be more hi end.

I'm guessing that USC's clients bought condos or small SFRs.  Condos and small SFRs won't have options such as whole house vacuum, Christmas light outlet under eaves, whole house intercom/automation.  Nobody is putting in a Subzero fridge and Wolf range at the lower end.  You might see laminate flooring on lower priced homes, but at >$1M, real wood at >20 sq ft isn't unheard of.  I bet nobody contemplated marble at the lower end.  And a lot of buyers at this level are purchasing their first home and money might be tight.  Plus, a lot of buyers on their first home purchase only plan to stay for less than 5 years, doesn't make sense to upgrade highly.

You have to compare apples to apples.  % based on base price at certain price range of that base price.

While what you are saying is true... you also have to take into account that the higher you go in base price, the higher the upgrade budget because of math.

For example, in qwerter's case, let's just say his home was $750k (base price back then) , 7% is ~$52k. That same home now sells for about $1m (based on recent closings), so that would be $70k, so if he did the same upgrades (which haven't really increased in price the last 2-3 years), he would have only spent about 5%.

Both he and WTT are at about 15% *including* landscaping... that's reasonable compared to 20-30% just for interior upgrades alone which is what I'm surprised by.

  Hi end homes get hi end upgrades or should IMO.  Thermafoil and 6 inch tile on bathroom countertops doesn't belong in houses over $1M. 

Isn't that my point, if you are touting luxury homes, why is that non "hi end" stuff standard on $1m+ homes?

People buying $1.5M and above will just upgrade more with higher priced items.

You are justifying the expenditure based on the price point. My point is that that when you are spending at that level, many of these things should be standard or at least you should have the ability to pick which ones you want and that's included in the price because at $1.5m, dark wood cabinets vs white wood cabinets should cost the builder the same. Just because you are spending $1.5m, why should one expect that you are going to pour another $300k into that home?

I guess it must really be a bull economy. Back during the bubble, people would be scrutinized for overspending at the design center.

Next time someone posts a question about what should they buy at the design centers, I hope all of you respond with "EVERYTHING!".

#JustTheCansAndTheFansIsAMyth