"4 weeks and then all hell breaks loose"

[awgee_IHB]

Just my opinion, even though no one is asking for it. But then, isn't that one of things I love about this blog. No one asks for my opinion and I give it anyways.

try to find better solutions to problems like the blow-up this thread has become.

I do not see the blow-up, at least that is not my perception of this thread. I see some strong personalities. Big deal.

Like IR said, if I don't like it, that is what the ignore button is for. Or I do not have to read a thread if I do not like it.

Honestly, I avoid about 90% of the threads. Why would I complain about any of them or anybody? If I find someone offensive, one click on the ignore button is taking matters into my own hands. Why would I impose my sense of offense or censorship on anybody else?

I never thought "4 weeks and then all hell breaks loose" would be accurate, but I was not sure.

That does not change my view, which I have had for years, that real estate will decline in price in real vs. nominal dollars until at least 2012. The more I watch the present government and Federal Reserve interfere with the natural course of the real estate market, the more I realize that the contraction will be more pronounced and drawn out than I initially thought as a result of all the interfernece. Price supports, loan mods, bank bailouts, tax credits, etc. will not "help" the market and will only load more burden of debt onto an already over burdened market. Debt must be paid. There is no getting around it. Neither the government nor the Federal Reserve can fix insolvency. Borrowing more money is not a solution to a debt problem. It is like giving heroin to a heroin addict. If loan mods do anything, they will shift the kick the can down the road or place the can on the taxpayer.

Foreclosure is the answer, not the problem. Foreclosure is the free market's solution to insolvency.

 

[Mcdonna1980_IHB]

I agree with Awgee. I don't see any problem with this thread. Maybe we could have a interesting debate without insults or maybe not. Like Cayci pointed out with AI, sometimes we need the insults to get people fired up enough to post the time consuming data and analysis.

 

[bkshopr_IHB]

Geesh, does the drama ever end? Would anyone like to discuss housing?

25 available $150k properties in Tustin that can rent for $1500?

You are either extremely dishonest or you have memory lapses.

Here is my original comment. Nowhere did I say what you are accusing me of. I tried to ignore your taunts, but I have had enough. You are deeply misinformed about many things.

"These comments have no basis in reality. Tustin rents range from $1,200 to $2,800 for 2-3 bedrooms and there are many units that have sold at (and below) $150,000. It’s a fact that a $150,000 condo rents for around $1,400.

$1350 / 2br - Large Tustin Village Renovated Townhome

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/apa/1351177380.html

Similar floorplans are closing at $130,000:

Listing is really in the slum of Santa Ana not Tustin"

Before IHO would jump all over the technicality.

There is a big difference in perception of neighborhoods in Tustin and Santa Ana. The listed property is located south of 1st Street by Santa Ana Zoo and West of the 5 Fwy. The location is bad news. 1st street by the 5 Fwy has been the eye sore for Santa Ana for many years due to that motel there that attracted drug dealers, Sex offenders, and other undesirable demographic. Rent in that part of Santa Ana is about what you will find being the lowest of the entire OC and that is why even the illegal aliens could still afford to live there. Techically Skipper is right that the listed in in the Tustin Postal zone.

There is a big difference between Tustin and Santa Ana. There is a tiny strip of Tustin West of the 55 and 5 Fwy that is considered the dark side. To really be fair to applying Tustin rent comp please search for Condos or townhouse listings located on east of the 55 Fwy or at the very least along Tustin Ave west of the 55 Fwy. I don't doubt there are properties on Tustin Ave south of the 22 fwy are sold less than $100,000 but the homes are on a land lease.

When looking at mature communities one must be aware of where are the boundary that defines the good and evil. Not every one knows that therefore the buyers rather stay away. Here are some cities that have that type of night and day neighborhoods defined by just one street: Tustin, Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, Orange, Long Beach, Anaheim, Pomona and Riverside. Yes Riverside and there are some beautiful and prestigious neighborhoods in Riverside.

Skipper, your apology is accepted and welcome to the forum.

 

[awgee_IHB]

I agree with Awgee. I don't see any problem with this thread. Maybe we could have a interesting debate without insults or maybe not. Like Cayci pointed out with AI, sometimes we need the insults to get people fired up enough to post the time consuming data and analysis.

I do not mind the insults. IMO, insults speak of the person insulting and take away from the legitimacy of their point. Unless the insults are personally hurtful. Where is that line? I dunno.

 

[irvine_home_owner_IHB]

Warning to CM_Dude... you may want to ignore this next post.

You are either extremely dishonest or you have memory lapses.

Whoah... slow your roll kimosabe... did you not learn that personal characterizations isn't the best way to do things around here?

Here is my original comment. Nowhere did I say what you are accusing me of. I tried to ignore your taunts, but I have had enough. You are deeply misinformed about many things.

"These comments have no basis in reality. Tustin rents range from $1,200 to $2,800 for 2-3 bedrooms and there are many units that have sold at (and below) $150,000. It’s a fact that a $150,000 condo rents for around $1,400.

$1350 / 2br - Large Tustin Village Renovated Townhome

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/apa/1351177380.html

Similar floorplans are closing at $130,000:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/15500-Tustin-Village-Way-92780/unit-111/home/4491211"

Someone post that cherry tree picture again.

1. Your original post actually said "rents for around $1500". You edited it 15 minutes later to $1400 after I posted examples of rentals at around $1200.

2. You challenged me on the comparables of apartments and when I proved it with links you tried to say they were in Orange (they were not) and went the "apartments don't compared to condos" route. The problem with that, those condos... are pretty much the same as apartments in that area.

3. You were challenged by no_vas on finding AVAILABLE condos at that price range in order to prove your point because you kept posting past sales and when he posted a current one listed at $200k+, YOU were the one who said there were 25 others less than $150k.

Congratulations, no_vaseline, you found one person priced $100,000+ over market and ignored the 25 others.

4. At the time, there were only 14 properties listed on the MLS below $175k, 7 of which were in backup/pending... so really only 7 were available and you verified that yourself by posting only 7 active properties ranging $98k to $150k and stating:

All of these places are active and priced less than [10] times annual rent:

You later edited out the "10" because I think that you realized that didn't really speak to the $150k at $1[4|5]00 data point you were challenged at.

5. So now that you started backpedaling you gave up this gem:

The poster didn’t ask “can I find them”, he asked “which is the better option” (clearly not understanding this is not the place for such questions).

To which I responded:

"If you’re asking which is a better option… the option has to exist. In order for that to happen, we should be able to find said properties in order to come up with educated advice based on the property condition, neighborhood area, current rents and current inventory.

Or… do you mean that the OP was just posting a hypothetical?

Because in that case… it would be much better to buy 4 Irvine $150k homes back in 1980 etc etc etc."

6. And now that I've re-read it... your concluding sidestep was such:

There aren’t a lot because there is more than enough demand. None of these swipes changes the facts. The poster was called a liar and he clearly is not. You can find units selling at 10 times annual rent. End of story.

But the question remains... could you find TWO $150k units (much less 25) that can rent for $1400?

I don't need to be dishonest or even require a good memory... it's all there in black and white:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/6044/

And I may be misinformed about many things... but I don't need to insult people to get my point across.

 

[zubs_IHB]

I'm a nub here, and I never thought IHB had a frat house mentality. If you had a question, people answered it for you and were nice enough about it. If you had differing opinions with the regulars here, then you would be told why you are wrong. If you persisted, then you were destroyed and humiliated.

I think it's fair. If you can't back up your numbers, getting destroyed in front of thousands on the internet is the price you pay. I don't like the "be nice policy".

 

[CM_Dude_IHB]

Price supports, loan mods, bank bailouts, tax credits, etc. will not "help" the market and will only load more burden of debt onto an already over burdened market. Debt must be paid. There is no getting around it. Neither the government nor the Federal Reserve can fix insolvency. Borrowing more money is not a solution to a debt problem. It is like giving heroin to a heroin addict. If loan mods do anything, they will shift the kick the can down the road or place the can on the taxpayer.

Foreclosure is the answer, not the problem. Foreclosure is the free market's solution to insolvency.

OK, watching people try to refute this stone-cold reality will be entertaining and topical, maybe we can avoid the water cooler for a while longer.

 

[NewportSkipper_IHB]

Warning to CM_Dude... you may want to ignore this next post.

You are either extremely dishonest or you have memory lapses.

Whoah... slow your roll kimosabe... did you not learn that personal characterizations isn't the best way to do things around here?

Here is my original comment. Nowhere did I say what you are accusing me of. I tried to ignore your taunts, but I have had enough. You are deeply misinformed about many things.

"These comments have no basis in reality. Tustin rents range from $1,200 to $2,800 for 2-3 bedrooms and there are many units that have sold at (and below) $150,000. It’s a fact that a $150,000 condo rents for around $1,400.

$1350 / 2br - Large Tustin Village Renovated Townhome

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/apa/1351177380.html

Similar floorplans are closing at $130,000:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/15500-Tustin-Village-Way-92780/unit-111/home/4491211"

Someone post that cherry tree picture again.

1. Your original post actually said "rents for around $1500". You edited it 15 minutes later to $1400 after I posted examples of rentals at around $1200.

2. You challenged me on the comparables of apartments and when I proved it with links you tried to say they were in Orange (they were not) and went the "apartments don't compared to condos" route. The problem with that, those condos... are pretty much the same as apartments in that area.

3. You were challenged by no_vas on finding AVAILABLE condos at that price range in order to prove your point because you kept posting past sales and when he posted a current one listed at $200k+, YOU were the one who said there were 25 others less than $150k.

Congratulations, no_vaseline, you found one person priced $100,000+ over market and ignored the 25 others.

4. At the time, there were only 14 properties listed on the MLS below $175k, 7 of which were in backup/pending... so really only 7 were available and you verified that yourself by posting only 7 active properties ranging $98k to $150k and stating:

All of these places are active and priced less than [10] times annual rent:

You later edited out the "10" because I think that you realized that didn't really speak to the $150k at $1[4|5]00 data point you were challenged at.

5. So now that you started backpedaling you gave up this gem:

The poster didn’t ask “can I find them”, he asked “which is the better option” (clearly not understanding this is not the place for such questions).

To which I responded:

"If you’re asking which is a better option… the option has to exist. In order for that to happen, we should be able to find said properties in order to come up with educated advice based on the property condition, neighborhood area, current rents and current inventory.

Or… do you mean that the OP was just posting a hypothetical?

Because in that case… it would be much better to buy 4 Irvine $150k homes back in 1980 etc etc etc."

6. And now that I've re-read it... your concluding sidestep was such:

There aren’t a lot because there is more than enough demand. None of these swipes changes the facts. The poster was called a liar and he clearly is not. You can find units selling at 10 times annual rent. End of story.

But the question remains... could you find TWO $150k units (much less 25) that can rent for $1400?

I don't need to be dishonest or even require a good memory... it's all there in black and white:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/6044/

And I may be misinformed about many things... but I don't need to insult people to get my point across.

I'm not going to waste my time filtering through your denial. I never said there were 25 active under $150,000. And I also changed the $1,500 to $1,400 on my own, after seeing more weight there. You have a very large ax to grind.

 

[xoneinax_IHB]

Similar floorplans are closing at $130,000:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/15500-Tustin-Village-Way-92780/unit-111/home/4491211

How is this a good datapoint ? Not closed and a shortsale.

 

[bltserv_IHB]

Heck. I am happy. Maybe Skipper is older than me. Whoope.

As far as his "retirement" status. Is that similar to "Presently Unemployed" ?

Us over 50 folk use that line when we are out of work. Or "Trying Retirement on a Temporary Basis".

Skipper. What part of the RE Business were/are you in ?

 

[NewportSkipper_IHB]

Tustin active, backup, pending under $150,000.

A  15500 Tustin Village Way 111  $125,000 

A  15500 Tustin Village  $130,000 

A  650 W Main St B  $130,000 

A  15500 Tustin Village Way 55  $135,000 

A  655 W 6th St C  $142,000 

A  1881 Mitchell Ave 127  $150,000 

A  15500 Tustin Village Way 64  $135,000 

B  15500 Tustin Village Way 75  $124,500 

B  1181 E Packers Cir 115  $124,700 

B  1192 Mitchell Ave 2  $135,000 

B  15512 Williams St K  $149,000 

B  652 W Main St B  $150,000 

P  644 MAIN B  $120,000 

P  1192 Mitchell 29  $125,000 

P  15500 Tustin Village Way 26  $134,000 

P  1881 Mitchell Ave 102  $148,500 

P  15500 N TUSTIN VILLAGE Way  $150,000 

You have a shot at all but five of them.

 

[CapitalismWorks_IHB]

Warning to CM_Dude... you may want to ignore this next post.

You are either extremely dishonest or you have memory lapses.

Whoah... slow your roll kimosabe... did you not learn that personal characterizations isn't the best way to do things around here?

Here is my original comment. Nowhere did I say what you are accusing me of. I tried to ignore your taunts, but I have had enough. You are deeply misinformed about many things.

"These comments have no basis in reality. Tustin rents range from $1,200 to $2,800 for 2-3 bedrooms and there are many units that have sold at (and below) $150,000. It’s a fact that a $150,000 condo rents for around $1,400.

$1350 / 2br - Large Tustin Village Renovated Townhome

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/apa/1351177380.html

Similar floorplans are closing at $130,000:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/15500-Tustin-Village-Way-92780/unit-111/home/4491211"

Someone post that cherry tree picture again.

1. Your original post actually said "rents for around $1500". You edited it 15 minutes later to $1400 after I posted examples of rentals at around $1200.

2. You challenged me on the comparables of apartments and when I proved it with links you tried to say they were in Orange (they were not) and went the "apartments don't compared to condos" route. The problem with that, those condos... are pretty much the same as apartments in that area.

3. You were challenged by no_vas on finding AVAILABLE condos at that price range in order to prove your point because you kept posting past sales and when he posted a current one listed at $200k+, YOU were the one who said there were 25 others less than $150k.

Congratulations, no_vaseline, you found one person priced $100,000+ over market and ignored the 25 others.

4. At the time, there were only 14 properties listed on the MLS below $175k, 7 of which were in backup/pending... so really only 7 were available and you verified that yourself by posting only 7 active properties ranging $98k to $150k and stating:

All of these places are active and priced less than [10] times annual rent:

You later edited out the "10" because I think that you realized that didn't really speak to the $150k at $1[4|5]00 data point you were challenged at.

5. So now that you started backpedaling you gave up this gem:

The poster didn’t ask “can I find them”, he asked “which is the better option” (clearly not understanding this is not the place for such questions).

To which I responded:

"If you’re asking which is a better option… the option has to exist. In order for that to happen, we should be able to find said properties in order to come up with educated advice based on the property condition, neighborhood area, current rents and current inventory.

Or… do you mean that the OP was just posting a hypothetical?

Because in that case… it would be much better to buy 4 Irvine $150k homes back in 1980 etc etc etc."

6. And now that I've re-read it... your concluding sidestep was such:

There aren’t a lot because there is more than enough demand. None of these swipes changes the facts. The poster was called a liar and he clearly is not. You can find units selling at 10 times annual rent. End of story.

But the question remains... could you find TWO $150k units (much less 25) that can rent for $1400?

I don't need to be dishonest or even require a good memory... it's all there in black and white:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/6044/

And I may be misinformed about many things... but I don't need to insult people to get my point across.

I'm not going to waste my time filtering through your denial. I never said there were 25 active under $150,000. And I also changed the $1,500 to $1,400 on my own, after seeing more weight there. You have a very large ax to grind.

Your slicin' the tomato pretty thin here Skip. Credibility it waning.

 

[Nude_IHB]

When we started a social network, I had no idea what we were getting in to. We have had endless debates about where to draw the line. Zovall and I draw the lines in different places. I am more permissive, and Zovall is more restrictive.

The "be nice" policy was put in place because a frat-house mentality had taken over. New pledges would come in here seeking information, and they find themselves going through an initiation process. Many of those people left and never came back. Driving away newbies is a certain death to social networks, so this had to stop.

Personally, I find Newport Skipper irritating at times, but that is why the software has an ignore button.

Actually, I openly warned about this when it began occurring. People form protective cliques and post a flurry of attack posts ("dogpiling") on whomever has dared to insult one of the clique members. In that particular case, it was Trooper leading the charge and I was trying to prevent it from occuring. Despite my years of experience on internet forums, I was hoping I could help nip it in the bud but what I have come to accept is that once a community gets large enough, certain dynamics inevitably come into play.

What are you thinking is going to be accomplished by calling me out?

I am calling out the fact that you were a part of the problem we used to have with frat-house initiation. We are not bringing that back. Zovall and I agree on this. You are welcome, but some of your antics are not.

To be honest, I miss you, and I wish you were around more often. Your keen intellect and insight has been missed. When I look back on some of the more interesting debates I have had in the forums, many of them have been with you.

I'm not going to apologize for my posts on this thread, but I will admit taking a bit too much pleasure in tangling with people in the past... which led to some extra-venomous posts. I appreciate your candor and your willingness to admit I added something to the forums.

When I look at this whole situation, I see the place the frat-house mob has in social networks. When people aggressively skirt the lines of propriety, the bullying effect can be very disruptive to the social order. When there is a local mob to keep order, new individuals with aggressive tendencies are pushed back by the mob. The collective sets powerful rules for individual behavior.

The question becomes, what do you do when the mob is unruly? You guys were driving people away. If there isn't someone in charge who can restore order, chaos can ensue with the mob. Moderators are the ones who restore order -- or at least we are supposed to be.

(I just realized that Zovall is the Emperor, I am Darth Vader, and Graphrix and Nude are the Jedi. Hmmm....)

I am too permissive. I can simply ignore information that is not important to me, so as long as I don't see people name calling or making strongly negative characterizations, I don't say much. Zovall wants a more orderly level of civil discourse. Both Zovall and I agree on the need to prevent the mob from driving away newbies -- good newbies that is.

The real problem here is that there are some newbies that should be driven away. I am not the judge of who those people should be, but there needs to be a mechanism where a group of people can drive away newcomers who do not fit into the community.

Perhaps people can email me or any moderator, and as moderators we can open a poll in the forum on what should we do about a certain newbie's behavior. The post awgee did where he clilpped together dozens of comments by Newport Skipper is a great example of the type of new entry a moderator could do. As moderators we can do this without being perceived as being aggressive because maintaining order is part of the job.

I am not a good moderator. I am the first to admit that. I will be more diligent in my duties and try to find better solutions to problems like the blow-up this thread has become. (BTW, the thread has been the most interesting in ages on the forums.) I don't have all the answers when it comes to being a forum moderator. If someone has a constructive criticism or advice to offer, I will be happy to hear what you have to say.

I don't think anyone, not even Skipper Dan, is intentionally trying to be evil. However, you are correct in that there is a place for people like no_vas, graphrix, and myself to be ourselves within this community. And it is admirable that you are willing to admit that there is room for improvement. I wasn't asked to be a moderator and I wasn't going to volunteer, I wasn't asked for my input on the rules here either, even though I was pretty vocal to zovall about laying down some boundaries when things really got out of hand. However, having been a mod in a few other forums over the last 12 years, and having experience in several new, blooming virtual communities, if I had been asked for input I would have suggested a few things:

Open forums are like high school. You cannot change that and still allow open posting. We all wish we could have elevated, thoughtful discussion but there will always be bomb throwers, trolls, and grammar nazis... there is even a funny list of all the types of people that you will find populating any sizable forum. Rather than try and fight human nature, or dictate rules every two minute while banning posters and deleting screeds, it's better to compartmentalize the forums. Have a section that is dedicated to friendly banter, a section that covers factual info and data sources, and a zone that is open condoned to be a free-for-all so that people can go at it as they will. Every forum is different, but if I were designing the rules from scratch: the blog comments should be heavily moderated because it is the public face, the real estate section would be split into "Q&A" and "Discussions & Debate" so that newbies can get answers and trolls can get served, which means no dirty name calling but ridicule and derision for those drinking/serving kool-aid without supporting facts and data. The Life style section would also be split into two sections so people can trade recipes and funny videos in one area and the other could be the free-for-all zone with plenty of warnings. That way no one feels they cannot join the forums and participate without being called an ignorant tool.

However, moderation plays a key role in this plan staying stable. Moderators have to have the authority to delete posts AND threads AND user accounts as they see fit. If you don't trust them to act in the best interests of the community and show some tolerance and restraint, they shouldn't be moderators. Giving them a title and no power just invites abuse and mockery. The incident that sparked the formation of the rules was a great example of things escalating because no one was there to end it. However, the rules were not designed for this specific community and the power given to moderators was not even enough to end this particular thread. Had I been a moderator (hypothetical!!!) I would have PM'd Newport Skipper and warned him to focus on facts and sources and lighten up on the challenges or take it to another section of the forums. Had he ignored that, I would have either shut the thread down or deleted his offending posts. I also would have told Graph to chill and stick to presenting facts. If things escalated to nasty personal attacks, thread deletion and temp bans are the next step. But in a free-for-all section, I would have been eating popcorn along with everyone else.

Lastly, I would remind everyone who is responsible for this site that people are people; you cannot demand that everyone adhere to your vision of utopia without draconian controls and pre-approval of comments and posts. Either accept that you are big enough to require traffic cops to maintain order while allowing people to express themselves as they see fit, or close the forums. Otherwise, you will have self-appointed vigilantes like me who come tear into someone because the site owners aren't enforcing the rules they expect everyone to follow. Sectioning off the forums into "Garden Party/Cross Fire/Mortal Combat" zones allows people to pick and choose which parts they want to visit and which they don't, which makes enforcing the rules easier and makes everyone else's experience better.

IR, I apologize if I ran anyone off. It's never been my intention to do so and I tried to keep my issues with others contained within the threads where the conflict began while I was here. I'm not saying I agree with everything you've done in the last few months, but I do recognize that your missteps were made out of noobness and not malevolence. I hope you take my suggestions in the spirit they were offered and I hope you have good day

 

[NewportSkipper_IHB]

Similar floorplans are closing at $130,000:

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Tustin/15500-Tustin-Village-Way-92780/unit-111/home/4491211

How is this a good datapoint ? Not closed and a shortsale.

Tustin sales under $150,000 in 2009:

16602 Montego Way  $98,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 10  $116,000 

13722 Red Hill Ave 9  $104,800 

13722 Red Hill Ave 10  $103,000 

15500 TUSTIN VILLAGE Way 65  $106,000 

13722 Red Hill Ave 37  $110,500 

15500 Tustin Village Way 19  $130,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 113  $125,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 57  $126,000 

682 W Main St B  $122,000 

13722 Red Hill Ave 10  $123,000 

17121 Mcfadden Ave 3  $120,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 103  $120,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 118  $130,000 

643 W 6th St D  $122,000 

13654 Red Hill Ave A  $125,000 

15712 Pasadena Ave 12  $127,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 36  $125,000 

1192 Mitchell Ave 37  $140,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 33  $130,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 21  $125,500 

1192 Mitchell Ave 63  $125,000 

645 W 6th St A  $128,000 

1192 N Mitchell Ave 105  $129,000 

16628 Montego Way  $130,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 110  $133,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 23  $150,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 16  $130,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 107  $139,900 

1192 Mitchell Ave 75  $135,000 

15500 Tustin Village Way 51  $140,000 

17532 VANDENBERG Ln 2  $140,000 

680 W Main St A  $150,000 

17522 Vandenberg Ln 14  $137,000 

15502 Williams St L  $132,000 

15506 Williams St C  $144,000 

1192 Mitchell Ave 62  $148,000 

1192 MITCHELL Ave 45  $132,000 

654 W Main St D  $144,000 

645 W 6th St C  $148,000 

16609 Townhouse Dr  $150,000 

16620 Montego Way  $130,000 

680 W Main St C  $150,000 

16641 Townhouse Dr  $140,000 

644 W Main St B  $150,000 

15510 Williams St L  $149,000 

1192 S Mitchell Ave 12  $140,000 

1192 Mitchell Ave 98  $135,000 

1131 PACKERS Cir 68  $142,500 

15712 Pasadena Ave  $150,000 

15508 Williams St A56  $145,000 

17522 Vandenberg Ln 9  $148,000 

16587 Montego Way  $149,900 

17554 Vandenberg Ln 9  $140,000 

15512 Williams St L  $144,500 

2800 Keller Dr 178  $145,000 

2960 Champion Way 2405  $150,000 

1380 Cabrillo Park A  $113,082 

 

[NewportSkipper_IHB]

Heck. I am happy. Maybe Skipper is older than me. Whoope.

As far as his "retirement" status. Is that similar to "Presently Unemployed" ?

Us over 50 folk use that line when we are out of work. Or "Trying Retirement on a Temporary Basis".

Skipper. What part of the RE Business were/are you in ?

"People form protective cliques and post a flurry of attack posts (“dogpiling”) on whomever has dared to insult one of the clique members."

 

[Nude_IHB]

Heck. I am happy. Maybe Skipper is older than me. Whoope.

As far as his "retirement" status. Is that similar to "Presently Unemployed" ?

Us over 50 folk use that line when we are out of work. Or "Trying Retirement on a Temporary Basis".

Skipper. What part of the RE Business were/are you in ?

"People form protective cliques and post a flurry of attack posts (“dogpiling”) on whomever has dared to insult one of the clique members."

Of course, the implication here is that bltserv is dogpiling by asking a valid question and making an anecdotal observation.

Not exactly the kind of attack post I was referring to, Skipper Dan.

 

[NewportSkipper_IHB]

Heck. I am happy. Maybe Skipper is older than me. Whoope.

As far as his "retirement" status. Is that similar to "Presently Unemployed" ?

Us over 50 folk use that line when we are out of work. Or "Trying Retirement on a Temporary Basis".

Skipper. What part of the RE Business were/are you in ?

"People form protective cliques and post a flurry of attack posts (“dogpiling”) on whomever has dared to insult one of the clique members."

Of course, the implication here is that bltserv is dogpiling by asking a valid question and making an anecdotal observation.

Not exactly the kind of attack post I was referring to, Skipper Dan.

I take it as aggression.

 

[CM_Dude_IHB]

Meet me at the water cooler.

Yes, the only thread with solid information belongs in the Water Cooler section. Of course it does.

Newport Skipper,

I have read the entire thread, and believe me, it makes me pretty testy. While there is a tremendous amount of good debate, there is also a tremendous amount of total, unadulterated BS. You ask for long-time IHB credentials and even addresses - yet you provide none. You have answered questions with questions and opinions, while continually asserting "facts" based solely on your own personal knowledge. This is a forum, and you have every right to state your opinion and respond to attacks - but claiming that this is the ONLY thread with solid information (said solid info provided largely by long-time IHB) is laughable at best. You have yet to provide a single statistic on loan mods. You scoff at the concept of shadow inventory, despite exhaustive research proving it exists. You simply don't agree with the bears, which is fine, but AT LEAST post one single post backing up all your various assertions. You've spent a lot of time here, welcome, now it is time to add substance to style. You've posted some good links, state that you know as much OR MORE about RE than the established IHB experts, and talk the talk - so step it up and back up your assertions.

The sole reason I suggested sending this thread to the Water Cooler is the degeneration of the back and forth and lack of substantive responses from you. I don't know you and I've watched with interest as you've taken everyone on, and I'm serious about the welcome - great, substantive debate and education is what brings me here every day. But seriously, if you truly believe that we are all just plain wrong and want the apocalypse, prove it.

 

[Nude_IHB]

I take it as aggression.

It may be, but you started out aggressive and haven't backed off. You had no problem asking graph for his background and education but you take offense to bltserv's query? C'mon man, no one is going to let that go without calling you on it.

 

[CM_Dude_IHB]

I take it as aggression.

It may be, but you started out aggressive and haven't backed off. You had no problem asking graph for his background and education but you take offense to bltserv's query? C'mon man, no one is going to let that go without calling you on it.

Newport Skipper,

Nude hit the nail on the head - don't you see the problem here? You have dodged every single question about your background and education, not a winning strategy.

I'm a nub here, and I never thought IHB had a frat house mentality. If you had a question, people answered it for you and were nice enough about it. If you had differing opinions with the regulars here, then you would be told why you are wrong. If you persisted, then you were destroyed and humiliated.

I think it's fair. If you can't back up your numbers, getting destroyed in front of thousands on the internet is the price you pay. I don't like the "be nice policy".

If you've been following IHB for any length of time, you would know that zubs captured the essence of the forums.