Author Topic: Countdown for in-person schooling  (Read 6923 times)

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Offline Bullsback

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2020, 11:13:56 AM »
I think the problem is that bull does not read the news about the school reopening or thinks the cases are fake.

@bullsback: What studies show that elementary age kids that get Covid will have no long-term effects? That's impossible to tell right now because we are not time travelers.

Edit: I tried googling for "no long term effects of covid on children" and found these instead:

https://www.winknews.com/2020/07/17/health-officials-worry-about-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-on-kids/

https://khn.org/news/why-doctors-keep-monitoring-kids-who-recover-from-mysterious-covid-linked-illness/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/health/children-long-covid-symptoms-intl-gbr/index.html

https://cbs12.com/news/local/doctors-concerned-that-covid-19-may-be-harming-lungs-of-children
You clearly don't read my posts - because I touted the efficacy of masks throughout this forum and the importance of shutdowns. So just stop it.  I have also statistically pointed out that this is far worse than the flu in many multiples of my posts on this site.  I happen to think eyephone is being completely sensational though with how he talks about elementary age children.  Low risk is still not no-risk so like I said originally, parents have to make their choices and I 100% respect those choices.

I would never tell one parent their decision (whether in-person or virtual) is wrong, because they have to make the choice they feel is right. 

Offline Bullsback

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2020, 11:16:03 AM »
@bullsback: What studies show that elementary age kids that get Covid will have no long-term effects? That's impossible to tell right now because we are not time travelers.

Edit: I tried googling for "no long term effects of covid on children" and found these instead:

https://www.winknews.com/2020/07/17/health-officials-worry-about-long-term-effects-of-covid-19-on-kids/

https://khn.org/news/why-doctors-keep-monitoring-kids-who-recover-from-mysterious-covid-linked-illness/

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/health/children-long-covid-symptoms-intl-gbr/index.html

https://cbs12.com/news/local/doctors-concerned-that-covid-19-may-be-harming-lungs-of-children
I think in my follow-up post I specifically mentioned, the one unknown is LT effects. No one knows what the LT effects are with COVID because all we have is short-term data. We have known about the damage it does to some in the organs, most notably the heart and need to understand what that means. Is it temporary, treatable, or a LT permanent issue. All of those are still very unknown and to be frank will probably remain unknown for a number of years. 

Offline bones

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2020, 11:17:54 AM »
I'm a huge believer in having schools open, but schools need to put a ton of protections in place, many of which will be completely unable to do so.

I think this is really the key.  Can schools do it safely?  Will teachers abide by the rules?  What happens if you get a "COVID is the flu" teacher?  My kids have been part of sports and camps that have come back with guidelines in place.  Some coaches just won't do them or if they do, they cherry pick which rules they want to follow, or only do them when someone is there checking up on them. 

Offline eyephone

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2020, 11:20:09 AM »
More And More Early-Opening U.S. School Districts Are Being Disrupted By Positive Cases Of The Coronavirus

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/05/here-are-the-early-opening-us-school-districts-already-battling-cases-of-the-coronavirus/#f910fcc79baf

Looks like it is a combination of students and teachers that got covid. (No finger pointing just saying)



Israeli Data Show School Openings Were a Disaster That Wiped Out Lockdown Gains

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-data-show-school-openings-were-a-disaster-that-wiped-out-lockdown-gains




Offline bones

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2020, 11:21:42 AM »

The reality is - they should have those rapid testing (even if they aren't highly effective) within schools, etc, as a way to tightly monitor everything so that when you have outbreaks - you keep them small and well contained.  I.e., lock them down at the source. 

Yup - there are some private schools in the OC that have implemented testing protocols.

Offline Bullsback

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2020, 11:50:51 AM »
More And More Early-Opening U.S. School Districts Are Being Disrupted By Positive Cases Of The Coronavirus

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/05/here-are-the-early-opening-us-school-districts-already-battling-cases-of-the-coronavirus/#f910fcc79baf

Looks like it is a combination of students and teachers that got covid. (No finger pointing just saying)



Israeli Data Show School Openings Were a Disaster That Wiped Out Lockdown Gains

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-data-show-school-openings-were-a-disaster-that-wiped-out-lockdown-gains
THis is all true - this is the bigger question - whether it is safe for the elementary school kids is not an isolated conversation (I was just correcting for what I thought were you fallacies focused on the individual child).

The bigger piece is the broader risk of opening things up on the bigger population (teachers and others getting infected because more kids have COVID). There is zero doubt kids going to schools is going to create more cases amongst kids - those kids will spread it to others who will likely get hit harder than the kids. 

The unfortunate part of all of this is with a swift federal and state response across the board - we wouldn't be having these conversations and instead would be dealing with small isolated breakouts in different parts of the country which could quickly be contained while we await a potential vaccine. 

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2020, 12:34:27 PM »
More And More Early-Opening U.S. School Districts Are Being Disrupted By Positive Cases Of The Coronavirus

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2020/08/05/here-are-the-early-opening-us-school-districts-already-battling-cases-of-the-coronavirus/#f910fcc79baf

Looks like it is a combination of students and teachers that got covid. (No finger pointing just saying)



Israeli Data Show School Openings Were a Disaster That Wiped Out Lockdown Gains

https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-data-show-school-openings-were-a-disaster-that-wiped-out-lockdown-gains
THis is all true - this is the bigger question - whether it is safe for the elementary school kids is not an isolated conversation (I was just correcting for what I thought were you fallacies focused on the individual child).

The bigger piece is the broader risk of opening things up on the bigger population (teachers and others getting infected because more kids have COVID). There is zero doubt kids going to schools is going to create more cases amongst kids - those kids will spread it to others who will likely get hit harder than the kids. 

The unfortunate part of all of this is with a swift federal and state response across the board - we wouldn't be having these conversations and instead would be dealing with small isolated breakouts in different parts of the country which could quickly be contained while we await a potential vaccine.

Yup...the latter paragraph is lost on people.  We could have contained it but for a pollyana Trump who cannot handle any type of criticism or bad news.   

The whole point of the shutdown was to buy more time and create new protocols to slow the disease while we find a vaccine.  Problem is that GOP and Trump kept looking for miracle cures and hopes that the disease will go away. 

South Korea are criminally charging one of the largest churches because it refused to stop gatherings and allowed large gatherings to take place.  That's is not infringement of one's rights...that is just prudent governance. 

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2020, 12:37:29 PM »
Just to add to this discussion is the fact that we still do not understand COVID-19 and the long-term effects.  Studies are developing and we are learning new things about this virus every day/week.

For example:

Quote
In a study of 192 children ages 0-22, 49 children tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, and an additional 18 children had late-onset, COVID-19-related illness. The infected children were shown to have a significantly higher level of virus in their airways than hospitalized adults in ICUs for COVID-19 treatment, according to Harvard-affiliated Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) and Mass General Hospital for Children (MGHfC).

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/08/looking-at-children-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/

Quote
She is one of a number of children who appear still to be suffering symptoms related to the coronavirus months after first falling ill, according to accounts from their parents.

While awareness is gradually growing with regards to "long Covid" in adults, much remains unknown about any potential long-term impact in children.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/health/children-long-covid-symptoms-intl-gbr/index.html

And all of this rushing is because GOP/Trump are beholden to the voodoo economics and refusing to believe that the government should help people, even in a global pandemic.

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2020, 12:46:02 PM »
There are many colleges closings and outbreaks throughout the US. (with the safety precautions) Also, students are getting covid in elementary schools.

I think it is a shame for people (elected officials, school boards, admins) giving the false narrative that it is safe. Sometimes you have to let them learn from their mistakes to learn.
For the elementary school students - it is likely extremely safe. For the teachers, obviously a bit more risk. But you also can't ignore the impact LT at home school with more limited peer interactions, etc, has on children.  But everyone obviously has different degrees of risk tolerance, etc. 

I still don't get why California hasn't went to my idea which kind of aligns with Qwerty's, except for I'd be doing the teaching outdoors (outdoor with spacing and masks - very minimal risk for teachers & students). Call it a win win and for the 1st time ever, California students will get equivalent of snowdays when it is either way too hot or raining (which we all know is pretty rare anyway) and on those days they'll just pivot to the existing virtual platform.

It doesn't work that way...teachers have to plan and do things.  You can't just pivot from one thing to another. 

No offense but these are ideas that people who have never tried to teach small children come up with.

Offline qwerty

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2020, 01:04:16 PM »
No offense taken. 

But any practical idea is better than remote learning. This is all a temporary measure. And there are many better temporary measures.


Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2020, 01:16:01 PM »
No offense taken. 

But any practical idea is better than remote learning. This is all a temporary measure. And there are many better temporary measures.

I think you can have remote/distant learning for upper elementary kids pretty easily.  It really depends on the district and the teachers.  JH and HS kids should also have almost no problems with distant learning.

TK/Kinder kids (and maybe 1st/2nd) are different in that most of their learning is through social interactions as opposed to any academics but the concern is that those kids will get the disease and spread it to others.  Any one with small children knows that it is next to impossible for them not to get sick from others and/or pass it along to their family members.

But again...as you stated...these are temporary measures.  IMO, we are better off making sure the risk is at a minimum before we start sending kids back into the classroom.  Kids can recover from one year of remote learning.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 01:25:53 PM by Irvinecommuter »

Offline Bullsback

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2020, 02:21:35 PM »
There are many colleges closings and outbreaks throughout the US. (with the safety precautions) Also, students are getting covid in elementary schools.

I think it is a shame for people (elected officials, school boards, admins) giving the false narrative that it is safe. Sometimes you have to let them learn from their mistakes to learn.
For the elementary school students - it is likely extremely safe. For the teachers, obviously a bit more risk. But you also can't ignore the impact LT at home school with more limited peer interactions, etc, has on children.  But everyone obviously has different degrees of risk tolerance, etc. 

I still don't get why California hasn't went to my idea which kind of aligns with Qwerty's, except for I'd be doing the teaching outdoors (outdoor with spacing and masks - very minimal risk for teachers & students). Call it a win win and for the 1st time ever, California students will get equivalent of snowdays when it is either way too hot or raining (which we all know is pretty rare anyway) and on those days they'll just pivot to the existing virtual platform.

It doesn't work that way...teachers have to plan and do things.  You can't just pivot from one thing to another. 

No offense but these are ideas that people who have never tried to teach small children come up with.
No - This is exactly what teachers have to be prepared for.  If in two weeks people have to go on-site, than they will be on-site. We are already in a spot where depending on the model you chose and the district, you are going to have in-person and virtual people with the exact same teacher so if for 2 days everyone is virtual becasue there is a heat wave and than you get back to 3 straight weeks where the in-person is in-person for those who opted in, than you really aren't in any different of a situation. 

Teachers are being asked (Depending on the district) to teach both virtual and in-person.  The reality is - no one knows what will happen so they need to be prepared to pivot. This is no longer last year - where everything came as a total shock. You had a summer to get ready.  No excuses.   

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2020, 02:27:27 PM »
There are many colleges closings and outbreaks throughout the US. (with the safety precautions) Also, students are getting covid in elementary schools.

I think it is a shame for people (elected officials, school boards, admins) giving the false narrative that it is safe. Sometimes you have to let them learn from their mistakes to learn.
For the elementary school students - it is likely extremely safe. For the teachers, obviously a bit more risk. But you also can't ignore the impact LT at home school with more limited peer interactions, etc, has on children.  But everyone obviously has different degrees of risk tolerance, etc. 

I still don't get why California hasn't went to my idea which kind of aligns with Qwerty's, except for I'd be doing the teaching outdoors (outdoor with spacing and masks - very minimal risk for teachers & students). Call it a win win and for the 1st time ever, California students will get equivalent of snowdays when it is either way too hot or raining (which we all know is pretty rare anyway) and on those days they'll just pivot to the existing virtual platform.

It doesn't work that way...teachers have to plan and do things.  You can't just pivot from one thing to another. 

No offense but these are ideas that people who have never tried to teach small children come up with.
No - This is exactly what teachers have to be prepared for.  If in two weeks people have to go on-site, than they will be on-site. We are already in a spot where depending on the model you chose and the district, you are going to have in-person and virtual people with the exact same teacher so if for 2 days everyone is virtual becasue there is a heat wave and than you get back to 3 straight weeks where the in-person is in-person for those who opted in, than you really aren't in any different of a situation. 

Teachers are being asked (Depending on the district) to teach both virtual and in-person.  The reality is - no one knows what will happen so they need to be prepared to pivot. This is no longer last year - where everything came as a total shock. You had a summer to get ready.  No excuses.   

No...that's not true at all.  Hybrid was one option offered...as was traditional and online.  All three are fundamentally different and thus teachers were assigned to different classes with different needs. 

Most business are still struggling with figuring out how to deal with Covid...not sure why teachers are viewed to know how to do it. 

Go teach 35 children in a classroom setting and then come back to tell me no excuses. 

Offline Bullsback

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2020, 02:37:47 PM »
There are many colleges closings and outbreaks throughout the US. (with the safety precautions) Also, students are getting covid in elementary schools.

I think it is a shame for people (elected officials, school boards, admins) giving the false narrative that it is safe. Sometimes you have to let them learn from their mistakes to learn.
For the elementary school students - it is likely extremely safe. For the teachers, obviously a bit more risk. But you also can't ignore the impact LT at home school with more limited peer interactions, etc, has on children.  But everyone obviously has different degrees of risk tolerance, etc. 

I still don't get why California hasn't went to my idea which kind of aligns with Qwerty's, except for I'd be doing the teaching outdoors (outdoor with spacing and masks - very minimal risk for teachers & students). Call it a win win and for the 1st time ever, California students will get equivalent of snowdays when it is either way too hot or raining (which we all know is pretty rare anyway) and on those days they'll just pivot to the existing virtual platform.

It doesn't work that way...teachers have to plan and do things.  You can't just pivot from one thing to another. 

No offense but these are ideas that people who have never tried to teach small children come up with.
No - This is exactly what teachers have to be prepared for.  If in two weeks people have to go on-site, than they will be on-site. We are already in a spot where depending on the model you chose and the district, you are going to have in-person and virtual people with the exact same teacher so if for 2 days everyone is virtual becasue there is a heat wave and than you get back to 3 straight weeks where the in-person is in-person for those who opted in, than you really aren't in any different of a situation. 

Teachers are being asked (Depending on the district) to teach both virtual and in-person.  The reality is - no one knows what will happen so they need to be prepared to pivot. This is no longer last year - where everything came as a total shock. You had a summer to get ready.  No excuses.   

No...that's not true at all.  Hybrid was one option offered...as was traditional and online.  All three are fundamentally different and thus teachers were assigned to different classes with different needs. 

Most business are still struggling with figuring out how to deal with Covid...not sure why teachers are viewed to know how to do it. 

Go teach 35 children in a classroom setting and then come back to tell me no excuses.
That is just Irvine - I'm speaking more broadly - other districts in the state had different views. Some of which combined online and in-person. 

Offline Irvinecommuter

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Re: Countdown for in-person schooling
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2020, 02:42:53 PM »

That is just Irvine - I'm speaking more broadly - other districts in the state had different views. Some of which combined online and in-person.

Irvine is a district with a ton of resources and a largely affluent population with good internet and technology.  It is already set up for virtual/hybrid learning.  Most districts are not so lucky and teachers/resources already stretched thin. 

They prepared for online learning and had to distribute technology to students to use...you want them to jump back and forth? 

What about the parents?  How do they plan their day...how do they work?  Again, Irvine has an affluent population with parents that have flexible schedule (or stay at home caretakers)...what happens to those district where parents are mostly working class and do not have the flexibility or support Irvine parents have.

Even Irvine made the parents pick one or another...the online portion was mandated by the state but once things get back to "normal"...the students have to pick one or the other. 

Again..no offense but you don't know how good you and your kids have it.

 

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