Author Topic: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts  (Read 106575 times)

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Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #90 on: February 16, 2018, 09:13:03 AM »
Sigh ... why do you make me work so hard ... thought it was obvious to everyone

We are NOT talking about war crimes

Ah, so you admit this wasn't an act of terrorism.

Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #91 on: February 16, 2018, 09:17:31 AM »
again this is not rocket science ..

a guy with a knife can be stopped before he kills 15 people

Don't point to exceptions

There is something called " base rate effects " or " base rate neglect " .  look it up ... if I get time later today I will do one of my clifnotes versions on it

it is how insurance companies price risk and many of your corporations that you work for also price risk / reward

remove emotions , romantic fantasies of manhood , sob stories , land of the free imagery and try to tackle a problem

make high powered guns difficult to obtain for mentally challenged people - it is not that hard !!


Offline Happiness

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #92 on: February 16, 2018, 09:22:54 AM »
Those who paid heed to my advice in the recent market selloff probably came out ahead ...

Mark my words .. we are again at a tipping point in history .. wrt guns

i have been following this topic since Columbine (99) and there has been a stalemate for a very very long time --- but just as the tide turned w civil rights, gay rights , now NRA/GOP may have jumped the shark w this latest episode of high school shooting -- the attention this is getting is somewhat different and the responses I am seeing are also very different .

GOP may also be laying the seeds for its long term ruin.   One election does not a trend make, and there are only so many fax-addled old ppl who keep voting them in before the next generation (s) take over -- gerrymandering also will not be able to save them.  There is still time for the Mitt Romney types (I was a Romney voter) to save the party but they need to act fast ...

Why blame the GOP for lack of gun control? There were several times since the 90s when the Dems had the votes and the WH where they could have acted on this. The Dems made a decision back in the 90s to try to expand its appeal outside of large cities by downplaying its opposition to guns. This is one of the reasons Bill Clinton was so popular with such a broad segment of American society. If you are a politician or political party, you can't ignore the fact that half of US households contain guns and there are far more guns than people in the US and since these people are mostly white and older they tend to vote in high percentages. As Morekaos said, the only hope for gun control is to wait until current gun owners die and hope the future demographics of the counrty shift towards those with no tradition of gun ownership.


Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #93 on: February 16, 2018, 09:23:52 AM »
GOP may also be laying the seeds for its long term ruin.   One election does not a trend make, and there are only so many fax-addled old ppl who keep voting them in before the next generation (s) take over -- gerrymandering also will not be able to save them.  There is still time for the Mitt Romney types (I was a Romney voter) to save the party but they need to act fast ...

So let's prevent gun deaths by wishing for millions of older Americans to die?

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #94 on: February 16, 2018, 09:37:56 AM »
Those who paid heed to my advice in the recent market selloff probably came out ahead ...

Mark my words .. we are again at a tipping point in history .. wrt guns

i have been following this topic since Columbine (99) and there has been a stalemate for a very very long time --- but just as the tide turned w civil rights, gay rights , now NRA/GOP may have jumped the shark w this latest episode of high school shooting -- the attention this is getting is somewhat different and the responses I am seeing are also very different .

GOP may also be laying the seeds for its long term ruin.   One election does not a trend make, and there are only so many fax-addled old ppl who keep voting them in before the next generation (s) take over -- gerrymandering also will not be able to save them.  There is still time for the Mitt Romney types (I was a Romney voter) to save the party but they need to act fast ...

Why blame the GOP for lack of gun control? There were several times since the 90s when the Dems had the votes and the WH where they could have acted on this. The Dems made a decision back in the 90s to try to expand its appeal outside of large cities by downplaying its opposition to guns. This is one of the reasons Bill Clinton was so popular with such a broad segment of American society. If you are a politician or political party, you can't ignore the fact that half of US households contain guns and there are far more guns than people in the US and since these people are mostly white and older they tend to vote in high percentages. As Morekaos said, the only hope for gun control is to wait until current gun owners die and hope the future demographics of the counrty shift towards those with no tradition of gun ownership.

Your theory is flawed because the proportion of gun owners is spread almost evenly between all age ranges.  The younger groups are only slightly less likely to own a gun and that is probably due to finances more than a shift in the culture.

Percent of adults with a gun in household:

18-29 ~ 43%
30-49 ~ 39%
50-64 ~ 43%
65+ ~ 45%

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/psdt_2017-06-22-guns-01-10/

Offline Happiness

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #95 on: February 16, 2018, 09:43:48 AM »
I can understand fortune 11's impatience regarding the die off of gun owners.

Given the history of this country, most gun owners today probably had parents and grandparents who were gun owners so gun ownership was viewed as a normal thing. In the past, religious, political, and social values tended to be passed down the generations by the family.

Today, our values are transmitted not by the family but my the media, schools, peers, and other things outside the home. It doesn't matter if a young person has a parent or grandparent who owns guns. If he gets more likes, followers, or right swipes by being against guns, all of the family's gun collection will likely end up in the trash once his parents die.

Offline marmott

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #96 on: February 16, 2018, 09:44:18 AM »
I think it will just get worse. With CSGo, PUBG and Overwatch... our next generation is all about guns.

Because we all know playing shooters make you want to own a gun or murder half a school...

I guess the older generation is all about blaming video games.

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #97 on: February 16, 2018, 09:58:02 AM »
I can understand fortune 11's impatience regarding the die off of gun owners.

Well, it's not going to happen in our lifetimes.  Look at the Pew stats that I posted.  Young people own guns at almost the same rate as retired people.

Offline morekaos

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #98 on: February 16, 2018, 10:23:59 AM »
I can understand fortune 11's impatience regarding the die off of gun owners.

Well, it's not going to happen in our lifetimes.  Look at the Pew stats that I posted.  Young people own guns at almost the same rate as retired people.

That is very interesting, not what I expected, but I'm OK with it. My son has a gun and will inherit mine when I move on.  He is Generation Z, very conservative kids.

Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #99 on: February 16, 2018, 10:45:14 AM »
you know what , twist my words all you want to make your one liner "gotcha " moments -- you really have to clutch at straws and say things like "wishing for people to die " to extricate yourself out of this illogical position that you find yourself in

on this forum --- clearly gun absolutists far outnumbers those who advocate at least injecting some level of logical debate on this topic . doesn't matter .   

there are more people browsing and reading here than commenting , and they see what I said for whatever its worth.  that's it. 

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #100 on: February 16, 2018, 10:50:10 AM »
Totally not terrorist:

Quote
The 19-year-old accused of being the gunman in the deadly shooting at a high school in Parkland, Florida on Wednesday belonged to a white supremacist militia, the group's leader claimed Friday.

The leader of the "Republic of Florida" white supremacist militia claimed in interviews with the Anti-Defamation League and the Associated Press that accused Parkland shooter Nikolas Cruz belonged to the group and trained with other members in paramilitary drills.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/374050-white-supremacist-group-leader-claims-florida-school-shooter-was

You, along with the Anti-Defamation League and ABC News, just got trolled by 4chan.

Local law enforcement: No ties between militia and Florida high school shooter
http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2018/02/15/florida-school-shooting-suspect-nikolas-cruz-member-white-nationalist-militia-tallahassee-leader-say/341751002/

White supremacist tries to walk back made-up story about Nikolas Cruz, blames media
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbp37y/white-supremacist-tries-to-walk-back-made-up-story-about-nikolas-cruz-blames-media


Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #101 on: February 16, 2018, 10:53:13 AM »
Those who paid heed to my advice in the recent market selloff probably came out ahead ...

Mark my words .. we are again at a tipping point in history .. wrt guns

i have been following this topic since Columbine (99) and there has been a stalemate for a very very long time --- but just as the tide turned w civil rights, gay rights , now NRA/GOP may have jumped the shark w this latest episode of high school shooting -- the attention this is getting is somewhat different and the responses I am seeing are also very different .

GOP may also be laying the seeds for its long term ruin.   One election does not a trend make, and there are only so many fax-addled old ppl who keep voting them in before the next generation (s) take over -- gerrymandering also will not be able to save them.  There is still time for the Mitt Romney types (I was a Romney voter) to save the party but they need to act fast ...

Why blame the GOP for lack of gun control? There were several times since the 90s when the Dems had the votes and the WH where they could have acted on this. The Dems made a decision back in the 90s to try to expand its appeal outside of large cities by downplaying its opposition to guns. This is one of the reasons Bill Clinton was so popular with such a broad segment of American society. If you are a politician or political party, you can't ignore the fact that half of US households contain guns and there are far more guns than people in the US and since these people are mostly white and older they tend to vote in high percentages. As Morekaos said, the only hope for gun control is to wait until current gun owners die and hope the future demographics of the counrty shift towards those with no tradition of gun ownership.

Your theory is flawed because the proportion of gun owners is spread almost evenly between all age ranges.  The younger groups are only slightly less likely to own a gun and that is probably due to finances more than a shift in the culture.

Percent of adults with a gun in household:

18-29 ~ 43%
30-49 ~ 39%
50-64 ~ 43%
65+ ~ 45%

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/psdt_2017-06-22-guns-01-10/


and one more thing - I know people have been conditioned by right screaming media to quickly latch onto partial half truths ,

but please actually read your articles before touting them  - if we applied the same approach to our jobs , we would be out of work in no time

The % of those who personally own a gun is 27-28% all the way through age 40

many people live w their boomer parents or define household differently , but the " personally own a gun " is the number

And how many of these own AR-15s  versus handguns ?  have you given that any thought  ? 

is anyone banning handguns ? no -- but that is what everyone always latches onto when there is talk of controlling  AR-15s access

can people see beyond black and white -- there is something in between called "grey "

Offline Liar Loan

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #102 on: February 16, 2018, 11:08:59 AM »
you know what , twist my words all you want to make your one liner "gotcha " moments -- you really have to clutch at straws and say things like "wishing for people to die " to extricate yourself out of this illogical position that you find yourself in

on this forum --- clearly gun absolutists far outnumbers those who advocate at least injecting some level of logical debate on this topic . doesn't matter .   

there are more people browsing and reading here than commenting , and they see what I said for whatever its worth.  that's it.

So I have to agree with you or I am a gun absolutist?  Get real dude.

Your prediction about gun ownership is wrong, and I posted the stats to prove it. 

Rather than accept the truth gracefully and alter your way of thinking, you make baseless attacks against the messenger.

Show me something...anything... that shows younger generations are abandoning guns.  I'll be waiting...

Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #103 on: February 16, 2018, 11:19:27 AM »
I think it will just get worse. With CSGo, PUBG and Overwatch... our next generation is all about guns.

Because we all know playing shooters make you want to own a gun or murder half a school...

I guess the older generation is all about blaming video games.

+ 1

Fox News and CNN have done to our parents what they thought violent video games would do to us :) 

Offline fortune11

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Re: Once again...nothing to be done but prayers and thoughts
« Reply #104 on: February 16, 2018, 11:21:04 AM »
you know what , twist my words all you want to make your one liner "gotcha " moments -- you really have to clutch at straws and say things like "wishing for people to die " to extricate yourself out of this illogical position that you find yourself in

on this forum --- clearly gun absolutists far outnumbers those who advocate at least injecting some level of logical debate on this topic . doesn't matter .   

there are more people browsing and reading here than commenting , and they see what I said for whatever its worth.  that's it.

So I have to agree with you or I am a gun absolutist?  Get real dude.

Your prediction about gun ownership is wrong, and I posted the stats to prove it. 

Rather than accept the truth gracefully and alter your way of thinking, you make baseless attacks against the messenger.

Show me something...anything... that shows younger generations are abandoning guns.  I'll be waiting...

yes there is a lot of grace we are showing here .. there for all to see

anyways read my response to your quickly thrown together post regarding those "stats"

 

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