eyephone said:I know this may be controversial.
You can greet your neighbor in church and shake their hand. How about be cordial to people in real life?
GH said:I heard from some message before that one of the greatest tool Satan use is to try to make us compare ourselves to others to distract us from our true calling in following Him based on the gift He has given us. Comparing with others either make us deficient (because some may be seemingly more closer to God than us) or make us proud and complacent (when some are weaker in faith than us) --
So there is really no point of discussing the merit of the rich donating a lot of money and guessing their intent because only God knows their true heart. If you see a brother/sister in Christ (that you know well) that is sliding in faith because of his/her pursue of wealth, gently remind him/her out of brotherly love. But I think to compare yourself to some random folks that you barely know their circumstances and their calling and what they do with their wealth is just not the right direction to do.
There was a story somewhere in John 21, where Peter asked Jesus "what about Him"? and Jesus reply was in the line of if I want him alive until I return, what is that to you -- just follow me ---
eyephone said:@Mety
What do you think is a better option. A person makes money legally or illegally. (Only two choices)
I guess a third option is to live off the government or bum off relatives.
The Bible or someone from the church would most likely agree with legally.
eyephone said:@Mety
No offense. Let me try to help you out. I think you are trying to talk about greed. (Like loving money)
There are many versus that talks not to be greedy.
Is this what are you trying to say?
Mety said:Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.
Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?
eyephone said:You are stretching it. Also, your statements are going in circles. (circular)
Btw- you are not a prophet. (You said your not, but I would to express my opinion you are far from one.)
The fisherman is an example of an occupation of how they make money and it depends on the variety of fish they catch.
I think people are intimidated about money and then blame people if they are not.
A person should take ownership and responsibility and stop blaming society. You can pursue your education, read books or articles about it, asks your friends, or simply hire someone.
So do you play the lottery? That?s a form of gambling.
Mety said:Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.
Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?
Mety said:eyephone said:You are stretching it. Also, your statements are going in circles. (circular)
Btw- you are not a prophet. (You said your not, but I would to express my opinion you are far from one.)
The fisherman is an example of an occupation of how they make money and it depends on the variety of fish they catch.
I think people are intimidated about money and then blame people if they are not.
A person should take ownership and responsibility and stop blaming society. You can pursue your education, read books or articles about it, asks your friends, or simply hire someone.
So do you play the lottery? That?s a form of gambling.
Mety said:Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.
Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?
So you think it's completely fine for a Christian to think about making money more than God?
eyephone said:Mety said:eyephone said:You are stretching it. Also, your statements are going in circles. (circular)
Btw- you are not a prophet. (You said your not, but I would to express my opinion you are far from one.)
The fisherman is an example of an occupation of how they make money and it depends on the variety of fish they catch.
I think people are intimidated about money and then blame people if they are not.
A person should take ownership and responsibility and stop blaming society. You can pursue your education, read books or articles about it, asks your friends, or simply hire someone.
So do you play the lottery? That?s a form of gambling.
Mety said:Maybe I am stretching it. It's either an area no one really thinks about or doesn't want to talk about. But most people reacted the same way when God's prophets talked about warning against people's sin in Israel and when Jesus was teaching people, commanding them to repent. I'm not saying God sent me to prophesy or anything like that, but most people who call themselves Christian who love money more than God might not want to admit so.
Anyways, if you are passionate about catching tuna and selling it, then I don't see a problem. If you are super eco friendly and want to sell only sustainable fish, then that's your calling also. I don't know much about fishing laws so I could be very wrong on this issue, but I think the topic where I want to stay is are you really loving God more than money? Simply put, do you think about God more than money?
So you think it's completely fine for a Christian to think about making money more than God?
My previous statements:
1. No offense. Let me try to help you out. I think you are trying to talk about greed. (Like loving money)
There are many versus that talks not to be greedy.
2. However, if a person says they only care about money. I think you have a valid argument.
Mety said:irvinehomeowner said:Thanks Mety for keeping this thread active.
To answer your question, I do believe "rich" is a relative term. And like others have said, it's your motivation that is the difference.
I would like to be "rich" so that my family can have the things they need... and want... but at the same time, it makes it easier for us to serve and share God. We can donate more time, talent and money to our church, we can help others in need, etc etc.
What's interesting to me, is for those who get to a point where they consider themselves "rich" (or financially successful), I would think they would naturally turn to God to seek something beyond worldly possessions. For me personally, while I would not consider myself rich, I am at a point where I want to help others with their lives and finding God rather than continuing to increase my net worth. I am at this point because of God and I would like others to see that having Him in their life helps you worry less about the struggle and that building these relationships with God and others is a "richness" worth striving for.
That doesn't necessarily mean talking about God every chance I get (although we should try), but helping people out, being positive, showing them a contentment with your life that makes them curious about that peace you have with yourself. Obviously, I'm human, and I fail many times at doing this (especially on TI when I get snarky), but I continue as best I can and try to be helpful based on my experience even though I am by no means an expert on real estate, economy, technology or whatever we talk about here.
I probably am doing the same thing as you stated mostly in order to walk in faith. However, do we really need to be "rich" to feed our family? Does it really make it easier to serve others when you are "more rich?" Jesus probably had less money than any of us and He still had no problem serving God the Father and others. Okay, He is the Son of God so you might say His case was a little different. Then how about all the Apostles and first believers in Jerusalem? I'm not against money. I think the problem is when you have "love of money" as GH said and also as Jesus said. Wanting to be rich in order to feed family or to serve others doesn't sound like loving money, but isn't this kind of saying we see money as more priority than God in order to share the good news? Isn't that in a way saying we think more money would work more effectively than just straight up sharing Christ?
This is my inner struggle also. That's why I keep asking you guys, but I believe Jesus was commanding us to have priority the other way. I think Jesus was telling us to get to know God more rather than get to know how to make more money even if it means to serve others because once you know God more and more you will most likely share the good news naturally and God will take care of those needs you have. Thoughts?
irvinehomeowner said:Mety said:irvinehomeowner said:Thanks Mety for keeping this thread active.
To answer your question, I do believe "rich" is a relative term. And like others have said, it's your motivation that is the difference.
I would like to be "rich" so that my family can have the things they need... and want... but at the same time, it makes it easier for us to serve and share God. We can donate more time, talent and money to our church, we can help others in need, etc etc.
What's interesting to me, is for those who get to a point where they consider themselves "rich" (or financially successful), I would think they would naturally turn to God to seek something beyond worldly possessions. For me personally, while I would not consider myself rich, I am at a point where I want to help others with their lives and finding God rather than continuing to increase my net worth. I am at this point because of God and I would like others to see that having Him in their life helps you worry less about the struggle and that building these relationships with God and others is a "richness" worth striving for.
That doesn't necessarily mean talking about God every chance I get (although we should try), but helping people out, being positive, showing them a contentment with your life that makes them curious about that peace you have with yourself. Obviously, I'm human, and I fail many times at doing this (especially on TI when I get snarky), but I continue as best I can and try to be helpful based on my experience even though I am by no means an expert on real estate, economy, technology or whatever we talk about here.
I probably am doing the same thing as you stated mostly in order to walk in faith. However, do we really need to be "rich" to feed our family? Does it really make it easier to serve others when you are "more rich?" Jesus probably had less money than any of us and He still had no problem serving God the Father and others. Okay, He is the Son of God so you might say His case was a little different. Then how about all the Apostles and first believers in Jerusalem? I'm not against money. I think the problem is when you have "love of money" as GH said and also as Jesus said. Wanting to be rich in order to feed family or to serve others doesn't sound like loving money, but isn't this kind of saying we see money as more priority than God in order to share the good news? Isn't that in a way saying we think more money would work more effectively than just straight up sharing Christ?
This is my inner struggle also. That's why I keep asking you guys, but I believe Jesus was commanding us to have priority the other way. I think Jesus was telling us to get to know God more rather than get to know how to make more money even if it means to serve others because once you know God more and more you will most likely share the good news naturally and God will take care of those needs you have. Thoughts?
This goes back to your comment that singing isn't really worshipping God.
That?s why I said ?rich? is relative. My definition is being able to provide for my family or making enough so my wife doesn?t have to work.
To me, making money is loving my family. Loving God is using my talents to make that money. I choose to make less because I want to spend more time taking care of my kids. There are so many variables it?s hard to say just let God take care of it. How do you know that God doesn?t want you to make money?
And yes, having money can make you a better disciple because you don?t have to worry about the needs of your family and have the time/resources to devote to others. Sure, you can and should disciple no matter your station but modern day America is different than Israel over 2000 years ago.
Mety said:So what is love of money then? How do you define it?
Mety said:Sorry for getting too technical, but how do we know if something is getting in the way of our relationship with God? How do we know if it's being put above God? Is it by thinking of it more than God? Is it by spending more time on it? Is it different for everyone? Can anyone share your own?
IHO says we want nice things and it's ok as long as that's not the only thing we want, but isn't that what Israel was pretty much doing as they served both God and other gods also? God called them out and said of them as an adulterous wife. The Bible I read seems to be saying God wants our whole attention, not divided heart. And it seems to be that money, which tempts us that we can get anything we want, is the very thing that our heart could be led divided mostly.
Am I still stretching? If you think so, please explain instead of just calling it out.