yet again the flakes, bumms, looser and lazy ones are beeing rewarded !

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
My wife is a civil engineer. We are friends with another couple who are both civil engeneers. I am not an engineer, but am self employed. I have an MBA, and can barely spell engineer (or anything else)!

The two ladies have similar work histories (years, experenece) and so does the man. The women make the same salary - and it's $3K more than the man for the same job.

In fairness, the women's expectations from thier employers oddly seem higher........and they get paid more. All three of them are fairly competient.
 
Here's a radical idea: Instead of pushing the "men are evil" propaganda, what if women's organizations re-organized to encourage more math and science in our little girls and less about attention whoring? You know, like, putting down the Cosmo and US Weekly for subcriptions to the Wall Street Journal or trade publications. Many men find strong, independent women sexy. And by strong and independent, I don't mean a New York ball-buster; I'm talking about a type of woman so confident, so self-sufficient, so comfortable and happy with herself that she doesn't reek the fear of being lonely.

Society gets it already. Women are empowered. Sure there are areas which still need improvement, but let's stop beating the dead horse of male hatred and invest some quality time in the next few generations of women. Equality will grow by leaps and bounds with a little less focus on Cinderella and Snow White romanticism (hoping some day your prince will come) and a little more focus on setting the right expectations for reality. Am I way off base?
 
No. but men's brains are genetically wired to be better at analytic thinking. Which means math and science. Men and women are genetically different, and for good reasons. Why should we all be the same? Different people excel at different things regardless of race or sex. Instead of pushing everyone to think they are equal, why don't we embrace that fact that we are different? Whether through divine design or random chance, the human population is a vast, beautiful thing. I believe in equality in the sense that all people should be treated equally and given an equal chance. This does not mean that all people are equal. How much anguish do people go through trying to be like someone else?
 
Am I being misunderstood? Why would it be too much anguish for women between the ages of, say, 15-30 years old to spend less time trying on different shades of lipstick and shopping for the right pair of low-riders in order to garner as much attention from every man on earth while at the same time hating each other in the process? I would argue these gossip magazines already cause unnecessary anguish by pressuring women to be something they aren't. Let's cut 4 hours of shopping down to 2 and go read an interesting book, huh?

Besides, how much more quickly could human information and knowledge double if more women began to use leverage that competive spirit "for good" instead of against each other.

Ha! I crack myself up sometimes.
 
Ummm, I think we are ignoring Darwin.

Young girls spend an "inordinate" time making themselves look good because men like good looking women (didn't IR say something about dealing with hotties?). Their genes and hormones are telling them on a conscious and unconscious level that they must be looking for the best possible mate. When men stop wanting to deal with hotties, women will stop trying to look hot. Which will be ummm, never.

It is impossible to know whether this math/science hard-wiring is correct or not. People react to expectations. It might be best for girls to go to all girl high schools. I did.

I suspect that men harbor instincts unpleasant to look upon. So do women, but they tend to be different ones.

Whenever one of these especially unpleasant instincts rears its ugly head, ask what genetic advantage this instinct bestows.

In women, say you conceal affairs and your mate pays to rear kids not his own.

In men, mass rape as part of war, conveys a genetic advantage of those who perpetuate it. Obviously the kids are less likely to survive. Since the men invest no resources in the kids, it is a complete genetic win if the kid survives and reproduces.

It's happening in Africa right now. Diplomats and historians talk about the various causes of war, but my hypothesis is that more wars and caused by over-population, with people inventing reasons for the war afterwards. In fact, maybe the human species would have gone extinct without wars, because our numbers would have gotten too big too fast. I have lots of other thoughts, but must get back to work.
 
I agree with Adam here. Just because men prefer women who look good, doesn't mean women have to spend more time improving their looks over improving their brains. You are putting women in the role of serving men. We are not slaves to Darwin. You have a consciousness. Use it. Women have 90% of the power in the world. They just don't know it.
 
People don't like to admit that they have less control over their instincts than they think.

Only women who are already hotties, or women who don't care what men think aren't going to spend time trying to look good.

They are not "serving men". They are serving their genes and the survival of the race.

As a practical matter, young girls will never be persuaded to not spend time primping.

And I assure you, I was the one studying physics and the Wall Street Journal.
 
Sounds like the same excuse a man uses when he isn't faithful to his wife, "Honey, men aren't programmed to be monogamous." Say what you will about genes, but you are still responsible for your choices. This all gets into the classis Nature vs. Nurture debate. It sounds like I (and maybe Adam) put more into the Nuture category than lawyerliz.

As for the hotties, all the effort women spend on trying to be hotter just raises the bar. It is an arms race, an endless cycle. The ones that are a "9" do what it takes to be a "10". Then the ones that are a "10" do what it takes to look better than the 9s, thus raising the "target." First it was bathing every day
 
If you want to invoke Darwin, that is fine. Yet the definition of being desirable is a cultural things - there are plenty of cultures where American males would find the "hottest" girl "unmateable". Actually, within a culture look at the ideal of beauty through time. Argue whatever you want about basic instincts but at a higher level it boils down to culture.
 
Culture and nature are irretrevably intertwined.

I don't necessarily approve of all these efforts, but I do report them.

Actually classical ideas of beauty are amazingly consistant over space and time.

Look at the lovely Benin heads and busts, the stunning beauties of ancient Greek, Egyptian and Roman busts.

Really ancient art stresses fatness, but when you're talking about the last 5,000 years, an ancient Egyptian lass painted on a tomb wall, would pretty much be considered a hottie today. and she'd be wearing cool stuff and lots of eye makeup.

This stuff isn't an excuse; it's an explanation of why men and women do really stupid or horrible things. They wouldn't do the really stupid or horrible things long if there wasn't a real payoff in it. Often the payoff is hidden.

Catholics call this sort of stuff "original sin". I approve of the concept but disapprove of the theology.

I find thinking in terms of excuses or nuture or sin or self improvement profitless. I like to know why people really do things.

Sooner or later they housing crisis/mtg mess will sort itself out, but the beauty biz will go on forever.

My 84 year old mother still worries about how she looks a lot. This is nice & keeps her busy, but my reaction is you mean I have to keep up the effort forever? Can't I relax and be sorta ugly and not care? Apparently not.
 
"Women have 90% of the power in the world. They just don't know it."

I've always said that women could control and dominate the world -- If only they could organize and stop backstabbing each other. This will happen, um, never, so I think the status quo is safe. For better or worse.
 
Adam, I think you are a bit naive (no offense meant!). I am a strong, independent, successful, highly-educated, etc. woman, and I can tell you through 25 years of experience(starting at age 13) that NONE of my intellect, character, or personality count for beans when it comes to attracting men. Pretty much 95% of what matters to men is how a woman looks. I spent much of my time over my life reading the WSJ, getting an MBA, volunteering to help those less fortunate, etc. As much as I enjoy my career and all the intellectual stimulation I have in my life, I would not hesitate for one instant to trade in a few IQ points for better looks. Then maybe I'd be out there thisThursday night with all the hotties being wined and dined, rather than having only my 5 year-old for companionship.
 
Men like me, but only after they get over being scared of me. Luckily I like only men who are extremely smart. The hub has a JD and a PH D from Hopkins.

And at 62, when I am in a skinny phase, they still look. When the rest of me shrinks, the bust doesn't. This whole thing gets rather boring afte a while.

ISM is right; men only care about looks, well, pretty much.

When I am in a good mood, I can be VERY funny. This is attractive to men, after they get over the fact that I am OLD, and there are more attractive women in the room.

Men also seem to think that they are attractive even when they are UGLY.

Also, contrary to women, they don't even try to improve their looks. WE would like the occasional hottie too!! The only exception is gay men. Even the least attractive of them at least try to maximize what nature gave them. Why don't the non gay men at least try?? I guess they know that women are more accepting.
 
>The only exception is gay men. Even the least attractive of them at least try to maximize what nature gave them. Why don't the non gay men at least try??

Because everyone would think we were gay if we did try...
 
The women wouldn't after about 10 seconds of flirting!!!! And if you have women dripping off you, I promise the men won't think you are gay!!!
 
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