Woodbury - Stonetree Manor

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Village: Woodbury

Tract: Stonetree Manor (74 detached homes - title is condo?) in the City of Irvine

Builder: John Laing Homes

Schools: Irvine School District (IUSD): Northwood or El Camino Real Elementary, Sierra Vista Middle, Irvine High

Tax Rate: The property tax, including Mello Roos, is 1.65%.

HOA Dues: Woodbury Master $125 current; $90 at build-out. Stonetree Sub $178 current; $145 at build-out.



Plans:

Residence 1 - 3bd+study/3ba - 1964 sq. ft.

Residence 2 - 4bd/3ba - 2104 sq. ft.

Residence 3 - 4bd/3.5ba - 2268 sq. ft.

PRICING



Phase ? (Picked up 1/20/2007)

Residence 1 - From $855,880

Residence 2 - From $908,880

Residence 3 - From $951,880

Phase 3A (Picked up 2/18/2007)

Residence 1 - From $780,880

Residence 2 - From $829,880

Residence 3 - From $867,880

Picked up 9/15/2007

Residence 1 - From $780,880

Residence 2 - From $827,880

Residence 3 - From $865,880

Picked up 1/29/2008

Residence 1 - From $740,880

Residence 2 - From $795,880

Residence 3 - From $820,880

Pricing from week of 5/12/2008

Plan 1: From 705,880

Plan 2: From 770,880

Plan 3: From 795,880
 
They are detached homes.

We spent a good deal of time looking at these guys.

My editorial comments:

1) if you like green grass lawns, don't buy here. Your yard is concrete.

2) (pet peeve) there is no driveway. The home ends at the beginning of the alleyway.

3) plan 2's layout kinda bugs me. You walk in and there is this stairway right in front of you that bisects the living room to the left and the kitchen to the right. On the other hand, the upstairs balcony is pretty big - enough for tea while sitting and looking across the street to the park / commons

4) plan 3 is nice and open, but the counter space is sorely lacking.

They're on phase 4 of 6, on sale now for Aug / Sept move-in.
 
Hey everyone -

1. Great blog/forum/or whatever I'm suppose to call this thing.

2. With the "new" phase 4-6 pricing at Stonetree Manor in Woodbury, I felt that it was worth mentioning that the "new" prices appear to be modest increases!!!

For example: When I was seriously looking in Woodbury's Stonetree Manor, the price for Residence 1 started from 852K, Residence 2 started from 899K and Residence 3 started at 931K.

While the post above noted that Residence 2 is now form 908,880 and Residence 3 is now from 951,880 it is worth mentioning I specifically remember a model 2 and a model 3 home that were some of the left over homes in phase 2-3 that were priced at exactly those levels. (But they had a number of upgrades).

Thus, when I see the new pricing is "from 908K and 951K respectively" I take that description to mean that the base models without a lot of options start at these prices... and thus, a modest increase in prices. (Which is crazy).

By the way, I just don't get the pricing. With rates unlikely to decrease anytime soon, and with other builders making 10% price reductions, etc... I'm unsure why prices didn't get reduced a little bit. I do like the models (especially Residence 3) but it really is over priced by about 100K... (and probably over-priced even then) and as I have started to look at the villiage of colombus pricing to square footage, I am begining to wonder...

I'm on the verge of buying a luxury mobile home.

Side comment on Woodbury. The Commons is Really cool. And the soccer and baseball/softball fields are likewise cool. I however, was really disappointed when I started looking at the various rental units that will exist in Woodbury... they are all entitled to access to the Commons... which I find wildly annoying when I think about the (a) population density of the apartments and (b) the various HOA's I would be required to pay as a home owner. Nothing against renters... but as a home owner, its hard not to think that they are dilluting the benefits of the Commons by receiving access...because of the sheer volume of rental units...
 
I hear you on StoneTree. We really liked the Plan 2, mostly because of the downstairs patio area (we like to have people over for dinner and it seemed like a good party space). We were having a hard time justifying it at $850K and were really ... confused when we saw that prices went up for them. Although it's great that they are detached, they are still considered a condo with common maintenance areas. So instead of a $65 HOA fee for your tract SFRs, Stonetree is about double (or more - in addition to the Woodbury HOA). You don't get much fiscal benefit from the detachment. What is also odd, is that when we first looked at StoneTree, they gave us a sheet comparing them to La Casella, Paloma, and Kensington Court (and maybe one other development), and now all those other developments are priced below StoneTree. Is there an economic model or benefit to StoneTree that I don't see, or are the Liang people on crack?
 
Apparently they are having a phase release today. They called me and told me to be there at 9 AM sharp, and they would go down the priority list ...

They're doing the same thing other builders are doing by reducing the supply (only 8 homes for sale, I think ... calling it 'phase 3A')

But I have to work ... oh well ...
 
I am having a phased release of my interest in buying at these prices! Maybe someday, the phased price reductions and phased releases will meet up with my phased interest and a sale will result... but I won't hold my breath. I don't have to work today, but I think that I will take a nap.
 
I am so happy that I was unable to purchase last year! Thankfully fate intervened and I was unable to sell my own home... and now, thanks to this site, I am going to sit back and watch the reductions with a big fat smile on my face... and hopefully be a little more informed next time around.

JackFrost: Thanks for posting the price sheet info!

It looks like Residence 3 has been reduced about 85K !!!! 85K !!!! That just paid for my new BMW and then some. Man, am I so glad that I didn't buy. But, in comparison to other homes in Irvine (see the various Lennar single family detached homes) Stonetree had to reduce. Two weeks ago I looked at a home that would have given me 3100 sq ft (residence) 4500 sq ft (lot) for 929K! And, 25K for floors! And I would have still gotten Irvine Schools. And, the association dues were less. Conversely, Stonetree Residence 3 has 2268 sq ft on essentially a 3000 sq ft lot (and is not a detached residence, but a detached condo!)... so how could they have justified the price difference?

Stonetree $/sq ft = $419 (old pricing)

Stonetree $/sq ft = $382 (new pricing)

Current competing single family home tracks $/sq ft = $294

So, what does the extra $100 per square foot get you???? Please, nobody respond by simpy saying "broke."

I'd be more precise in identifying the competing developments, but I don't want Crucialtaunt to call me a "shill!"
 
GrewUp - I think you are referring to Cantara Plan3 with that $294 per sqft price. First of all it is in VoC, not Woodbury or PS. Secondly, I think that particular Plan3 unit has bigger discount because it's an inventory home that just came back to the market.

btw - sounds like the BMW's dealership wouldn't suffer afterall in this housing downturn. People in Irvine just have to much money, you get a discount on the house, you buy a BMW.
 
Red -

Well, since you idenitified the homes... I'll just ask whether Woodbury is really worth an additional $100 per square foot? Don't get me wrong, I like Woodbury... but I also wonder what effect the four apartment sub-communities will have on all of the amenities in Woodbury (eg increased overall population density)... apartment sub-communities that I have not yet identified in places like VoC... (which seem to be all detached home and tri-plexes)... I'd be more inclined to give Woodbury an extra 30-40 per sq. foot...but $100? Both get IUSD. And the VoC Cantara is not a detached condo. And even on the last phase at Cantara ( currently from 969K) it is still a far better cost/sq footage ratio than the present reductions at Stonetree... but don't get me wrong, they both have a lot to come down from here...
 
I am not sure why they are priced so much more per square foot - or absolute price comparable to other, bigger homes ...

Any wonder they have had difficulty moving their inventory?
 
If you're serious about buying, I wouldn't get too hung up with the price per sqft comparison. You can't really compare price per sqft on two different floorplans. Larger homes tend to have lower price per sqft especially when the lot sizes are about the same and the number of bed/bath configurations are similar.

I happen to like Cantara Plan1 ($910k now) but certainly dont mind StoneTree Manor Plan3 ($870k now). They both have similar 4 bed 3 baths configuration and comparable floorplan. StoneTree is considered detach CONDO but feels just like any detach home to me.
 
Keep in mind the amount of dirt you are also buying. Most of the Cantara plans have about 4400 sq ft of dirt, whereas almist every Stonetree lot is just shy of 3000 sq ft. Is 1400 sq of dirt worth the difference between the Plan 3 Stonetree with 2268 sq. ft. and the Plan 1 Cantara with 2580? So you get 300 sq ft of house and 1400 sq ft of dirt for an extra 40K but no second HOA.

Personally, I'd rather get more house, more dirt, and fewer HOA's for 40K.

As an aside - I'd also prefer to live away from High Power lines... especially after I contacted So Cal Edison (via email) to ask about VoC and the High Power lines... and they responded by asking if there was a phone number I could be reached at... (which makes me really suspicious that they are unwilling to make a statement in writing about EMFs)...

Which has since really turned me off about VoC.
 
Hey there...I'm a first-time/long-time, and thinking about purchasing a Plan 3 now that they've sunk to below $870K. My wife and I have been to the models at least 4 times, and the first price sheet we got listed the plan 3 at $988K! This was less than a year ago...

In any case, Laing is offering a $10K incentive on all models if you finance through JLH Mortgage. I have two questions:

1. With all the news of tightening lending standards in the sub-prime market, are prime borrowers more valuable to lenders now than in the past? In other words, can/will Laing offer bigger incentives for buyers like us since their lending arm is in a bit of trouble (Countrywide, I think)?

2. Has anyone had any experience trying to pry more incentives out of Laing than what they're offering? Or is the price the price? I understand that it's probably not feasible to ask them to cut price (since they'd have to refund the buyers who currently have deposits), but based on some of my "back-of-napkin" calculations, the plan 3s need to be about $850K to make me comfortable in the long haul. That means that I need to ask for about $17K in incentives or other offers to make this purchase happen.

Here's a bit of background:

My wife and I sold a condo in Long Beach last May for about $550K; we've been sitting on about $450K in cash ever since, and we've been waiting to buy in Irvine.

We're leaning towards buying a home because we'll want to settle in SoCal for the long-haul (20 plus years, we hope) and we love it here. Our credit is outstanding and both of us work in Irvine in NON-RE industries (automotive and government). If we ever need to move, we can probably rent this home out for less than our monthly PITI payment would be, so our chance of foreclosure is pretty small.

Any thoughts?

OCR
 
OCR - They may not want to lower the price right now espeically since unit wont be ready till Dec. What you can try is ask them to buy points to lower your morgage rate - this way hopefully you can get the monthly payment to be in your comfort zone. Buying points make sense for your situation anyways since you're planning to stay long term.
 
negotiate. if you don't try you will regret it. I got close on the purchase of a plan 3 last year (but couldn't sell my home fast enough)... and Laing did try to come up with additional incentives... of course however, that was before they turned around and dropped the price 85k eight weeks later In Feb)... so maybe they had a lot of fat to trim to begin with (and maybe they still have a lot more to trim)

If you are absolutely against the wall and need to buy, consider writing an offer that is NOT contingent, but that is at a price that you are comfortable with ... the worst they can say is no.
 
I promised an update, so here's an update:

Bottom line: We went ahead and purchased a plan 3 STM. I'll go into more details later as to why I purchased a home despite being firmly in the "Housing Bear" camp, but first some details on the home buying process:

1. I don't think STM will "deal" on homes. In other words, beyond the $10,000 closing cost/points assistance, they're pretty firm on price, even to the point of letting potential buyers with deposit checks walk out the door. My wife and I had check in hand (with pre-approved financing with $500K cash as down payment). We offered asking price plus $15,000 in closing cost assistance ($5,000 more than publicly offered). We were told (very politely), that they couldn't do anything about pricing, and that if our situation changed, to please let them know. We walked out the door.

2. The reasons they do this, I suspect, has to do with their price-protection plan. Basically, they will match the price of your home with the prices of the latest phase release as long as you are in escrow. If they dropped the price for me, they'd have to drop the price for all the phases still in construction.

3. So far as I can tell, Laing's sales process has been pretty nifty (easy to understand documents, disclosures, meetings, goodie bags, etc). I suppose it should be, considering that we're dropping $862K on a home, but I've heard horror stories about new home builders, so this came as a small surprise...

4. Options are, as expected, outrageously priced.

5. Pricing is in line with other new home communities, and significantly below the resale market. I don’t think a resale in Irvine exists under $400/sq. ft…STM with incentives clocked in at around $380.

6. Taxes stink. 1.65% is a bit steep, considering I came from a non-Mello Roos area.

7. Did you know that Woodbury is in a dam-break hazard zone? Apparently, there’s a reservoir off Bee Canyon. I had to sign a disclosure about that dam and the possibility for damage if the dam breaks…

More later…

OCR
 
Congrats! Enjoy your new home. Good work at least trying the negotiating angle.

One thing, there are plenty of resales under $400/sq. ft in the areas I watch (woodbridge and surrounding). Add in the mello roos and I wouldn't call this significantly below resale.

Do you know when the next phase begins?
 
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