Woodbury - Cachette

R

roundcorners_IHB

New member
Anybody else keeping track of Cachettes in Woodbury? Seems that more and more are coming up on the market; still really WTF overpriced! Went to 93 Regal this past weekend; short sale; rumor to be only one low ball offer.



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/95-Regal-92620/home/7210759">95 Regal</a> right next door.



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/61-Regal-92620/home/7220026">$699</a> WTF...



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/59-Regal-92620/home/7218964">Corner</a> lot, nice, but still too high!



<a href="http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/43-Lamplighter-92620/home/7211186/claw-09-358557">This one</a> on Lamplighter is a little better; according to the Redfin Average $/Sq Ft, this is a ok, starting price point



Does anyone know what happened to 195 Rhapsody? It came on the market for about 7 days, then was on "hold do not show"; then a few weeks ago, some people were moving in. No sales history, no sales price! Did someone pick it up at auction or maybe by a realtor...



BTW - it's so funny to see these Re-Fi/Mortage Modification flyers on every door in WB... (They know it's prime territory)



<img src="http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/46/bigphoto/564/S569564_2.jpg" alt="" />
 
I don't know if you can answer this BK; but why are detached condos in WB for the most part smaller than attached ones. Lombard Court, Cachettes and Stone Trees max out 2100 sq feet where as, Treo & La Castellas start out at about that size? My guess is the square footage justifies a higher price for being attached; as well, the detached will justify a higher price for being smaller.
 
Just did the math on Cachette; if we were all like Awgee and paid in full cash today, we still have a $1,400 month payment; including tax, mello-roos, two associations, maintenance, and insurance... Again, thank God I'm a renter... And you know prices have to come down!
 
Cachette is a 9.3 units per acre product. In land economic there must be a total of 20,000 sf to justify the selling price of the land.



Take 20,000/9.3= 2150 sf. average. If Cachette max out at 2100 sf then it is a non-performing product because its average is about 2,000 sf instead of 2,150 sf. This is the reason why we will not see a repeat of retired Cachette.

Stonetree I think is higher sf than you quoted because its density is about a high 8 or low 9.



There is a 15% premium for a detached home over an attached home. In order to have an attached home site to perform financially the attached homes must have 15% more sf than detached.



In truth the correct answer should be more than 15% in sf because of the construction cost is 20%-35% higher to build an attached vs a detached project so in order to meet the financial performance of a detached project the sf for the attached homes is about 20-30% higher. 26,000 sf per acre is the gauge for an attached site. The result is each plan will have more sf than the detached condos.
 
Anyone know how many Cachette homes there are in Woodbury? A friend of mine mentioned that it is one of the Woodbury tracts with a smaller number of units.



psst irvine123, I moved some comments over to Off Topic.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1239342305]In truth the correct answer should be more than 15% in sf because of the construction cost is 20%-35% higher to build an attached vs a detached project so in order to meet the financial performance of a detached project the sf for the attached homes is about 20-30% higher. 26,000 sf per acre is the gauge for an attached site. The result is each plan will have more sf than the detached condos.</blockquote>


I would have thought that attached would be cheaper to build as everything is connected and there would be less walls. Can you explain what causes higher cost?
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1239342305]



There is a 15% premium for a detached home over an attached home. In order to have an attached home site to perform financially the attached homes must have 15% more sf than detached.



</blockquote>


I have found that the base price of Cal Pac detached condos are actually cheaper than the other builder's attached condos in the same village. I'm a big fan of Cal Pac and hope they start selling again soon. A longtime Cal Pac salesperson told me just before she got laid off that Cal Pac is in no danger of going out of business as they have enough general contractor work (UCI faculty housing, commercial property, etc) to keep them in business until the RE slump is over, then they will start selling on the ranch again.
 
[quote author="High Gravity" date=1239410081][quote author="bkshopr" date=1239342305]



There is a 15% premium for a detached home over an attached home. In order to have an attached home site to perform financially the attached homes must have 15% more sf than detached.



</blockquote>


I have found that the base price of Cal Pac detached condos are actually cheaper than the other builder's attached condos in the same village. I'm a big fan of Cal Pac and hope they start selling again soon. A longtime Cal Pac salesperson told me just before she got laid off that Cal Pac is in no danger of going out of business as they have enough general contractor work (UCI faculty housing, commercial property, etc) to keep them in business until the RE slump is over, then they will start selling on the ranch again.</blockquote>
Yeah because that salesperson is knowledgable about the finances of the company, once that UCI stuff finishes up they are going busto like several other builders. The housing and commercial markets arent coming back for at least 3+ years.
 
The faculty housing at UCI isn't selling either. Big buildup of inventory, and the new section they just finished is sitting, as they built 'high end' (by UCI std, maybe 3500-4500sf) houses, which only a small part of the faculty can afford.
 
I will not comment on Cal Pac due to Cary Bren's pending divorce.



Attached is more expensive to build due to fire rating wall assembly, sound attenuation, longer roof span, complex HVAC coordination, lack of shear walls at garages, and stepped foundations to accommodate each units when the ground is sloping 2.5 inches per unit just to have positive drainage flow. (A 6 unit attached building required the foundation to step 3"x 6 units= 15").



Attached project also need to conform to handicap universal access from the guest parking by providing a level path for wheel chairs that lead to all of the front doors and the 18" difference often resulted in (3) 6" steps to the last unit that has 18" difference in grade. The 3 steps are not conforming to ADA accessibility code therefore a ramp and retaining walls would be needed to negotiate the 18" to the front door. Other interior features such as the bathroom dimension as well as lower counter height options are extra cost to the builders. Fire sprinklers are also mandatory for attached units while detached homes are exempt from ADA and fire sprinkler requirements.



A 90 detached home project has 91 side yards to step the grades and few retaining walls are required while a 90 attached home project consisting of 6 attached units has only 16 side yards to make up grades and many retaining walls are required to negotiate grades.



Yes detached homes have more exterior walls but labor is cheap for the no brainer repetitive tasks. Attached project requires more intellectual calculation, coordination and often due to tighter site constraints thus requiring much more civil coordination and complex infrastructure. As a result more labor cost and higher salary workers are needed for the attached project.



Take the same philosopy and add a vertical dimension to the products such as a highrise residential. There is a huge saving on less exterior walls and roofs but does it mean it is cheap to build?
 
[quote author="freedomCM" date=1239415174]The faculty housing at UCI isn't selling either. Big buildup of inventory, and the new section they just finished is sitting, as they built 'high end' (by UCI std, maybe 3500-4500sf) houses, which only a small part of the faculty can afford.</blockquote>


What is your source? From my knowledge, which I think it pretty accurate, there still continues to be a massive waiting list for faculty housing in University Hills.
 
my source is a faculty member who recently moved to nyc. he told me that there were 34 houses on the market and no faculty on the waiting list were interested in purchasing them.



what is your source?
 
I think that freedomCM is right. I am a faculty member and have dismissed more than a dozen offers in the last year. I believe that the realtors in charge of the UCI housing list/offers are crooks, and therefore refuse to play their game. I do not think that they would keep on offering me houses if they were in short supply.
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1239415743]I will not comment on Cal Pac due to Cary Bren's pending divorce.



Attached is more expensive to build due to fire rating wall assembly, sound attenuation, longer roof span, complex HVAC coordination, lack of shear walls at garages, and stepped foundations to accommodate each units when the ground is sloping 2.5 inches per unit just to have positive drainage flow. (A 6 unit attached building required the foundation to step 3"x 6 units= 15").



Attached project also need to conform to handicap universal access from the guest parking by providing a level path for wheel chairs that lead to all of the front doors and the 18" difference often resulted in (3) 6" steps to the last unit that has 18" difference in grade. The 3 steps are not conforming to ADA accessibility code therefore a ramp and retaining walls would be needed to negotiate the 18" to the front door. Other interior features such as the bathroom dimension as well as lower counter height options are extra cost to the builders. Fire sprinklers are also mandatory for attached units while detached homes are exempt from ADA and fire sprinkler requirements.



A 90 detached home project has 91 side yards to step the grades and few retaining walls are required while a 90 attached home project consisting of 6 attached units has only 16 side yards to make up grades and many retaining walls are required to negotiate grades.



Yes detached homes have more exterior walls but labor is cheap for the no brainer repetitive tasks. Attached project requires more intellectual calculation, coordination and often due to tighter site constraints thus requiring much more civil coordination and complex infrastructure. As a result more labor cost and higher salary workers are needed for the attached project.



Take the same philosopy and add a vertical dimension to the products such as a highrise residential. There is a huge saving on less exterior walls and roofs but does it mean it is cheap to build?</blockquote>


Then why would anybody then build attached properties? It seems like building detached condos/townhouses/whatever would be the best bet in terms of profit potential.
 
[quote author="FutIrv" date=1239426306]I think that freedomCM is right. I am a faculty member and have dismissed more than a dozen offers in the last year. I believe that the realtors in charge of the UCI housing list/offers are crooks, and therefore refuse to play their game. I do not think that they would keep on offering me houses if they were in short supply.</blockquote>


Interesting, I just called the sales office and they told me that I could get on the waiting list, but that there are "1000's of people" already on it and it would take years to have an offer. Go ahead, give it a try. You can even email the director of marketing if you want (disclosure, this is all public information available here:http://www.icha.uci.edu/contactus.htm)



Kathy Windsor

Director of Marketing

kathywindsor@housing.hsg.uci.edu



Phone (949) 824-7345
 
[quote author="Geotpf" date=1239427003][quote author="bkshopr" date=1239415743]I will not comment on Cal Pac due to Cary Bren's pending divorce.



Attached is more expensive to build due to fire rating wall assembly, sound attenuation, longer roof span, complex HVAC coordination, lack of shear walls at garages, and stepped foundations to accommodate each units when the ground is sloping 2.5 inches per unit just to have positive drainage flow. (A 6 unit attached building required the foundation to step 3"x 6 units= 15").



Attached project also need to conform to handicap universal access from the guest parking by providing a level path for wheel chairs that lead to all of the front doors and the 18" difference often resulted in (3) 6" steps to the last unit that has 18" difference in grade. The 3 steps are not conforming to ADA accessibility code therefore a ramp and retaining walls would be needed to negotiate the 18" to the front door. Other interior features such as the bathroom dimension as well as lower counter height options are extra cost to the builders. Fire sprinklers are also mandatory for attached units while detached homes are exempt from ADA and fire sprinkler requirements.



A 90 detached home project has 91 side yards to step the grades and few retaining walls are required while a 90 attached home project consisting of 6 attached units has only 16 side yards to make up grades and many retaining walls are required to negotiate grades.



Yes detached homes have more exterior walls but labor is cheap for the no brainer repetitive tasks. Attached project requires more intellectual calculation, coordination and often due to tighter site constraints thus requiring much more civil coordination and complex infrastructure. As a result more labor cost and higher salary workers are needed for the attached project.



Take the same philosopy and add a vertical dimension to the products such as a highrise residential. There is a huge saving on less exterior walls and roofs but does it mean it is cheap to build?</blockquote>


Then why would anybody then build attached properties? It seems like building detached condos/townhouses/whatever would be the best bet in terms of profit potential.</blockquote>


Land
 
New faculty hires have priority in the list, but after some time (1 year?) the new hire loses the ?privilege?. I am well beyond the grace period, and keep on receiving regularly ?offers? to consider.

The new developments are reserved for the faculty members hired most recently. They had a lottery for the new development sold in 2007 -2008 (I am sorry, I forgot the plan numbers). Only the most recent hires qualified. Probably the number of people in the lottery outnumbered 2 to 1 the number of houses, but at the end, I know for a fact that they exhausted the list of newest hires and could not sell all the houses. They began to offer houses to the people in the bigger list. I have also heard that they cannot sell the newest development facing the highway.



I am not surprise by what they told you, as I said before they are crooks.



Regarding the price, a 6-10 year old, 1700 Sq. Ft. house may go for $370,502. You rent the land, and have to sell back the house to UCI if you move out. It has to be your primary residence.
 
[quote author="Geotpf" date=1239427003][quote author="bkshopr" date=1239415743]I will not comment on Cal Pac due to Cary Bren's pending divorce.



Attached is more expensive to build due to fire rating wall assembly, sound attenuation, longer roof span, complex HVAC coordination, lack of shear walls at garages, and stepped foundations to accommodate each units when the ground is sloping 2.5 inches per unit just to have positive drainage flow. (A 6 unit attached building required the foundation to step 3"x 6 units= 15").



Attached project also need to conform to handicap universal access from the guest parking by providing a level path for wheel chairs that lead to all of the front doors and the 18" difference often resulted in (3) 6" steps to the last unit that has 18" difference in grade. The 3 steps are not conforming to ADA accessibility code therefore a ramp and retaining walls would be needed to negotiate the 18" to the front door. Other interior features such as the bathroom dimension as well as lower counter height options are extra cost to the builders. Fire sprinklers are also mandatory for attached units while detached homes are exempt from ADA and fire sprinkler requirements.



A 90 detached home project has 91 side yards to step the grades and few retaining walls are required while a 90 attached home project consisting of 6 attached units has only 16 side yards to make up grades and many retaining walls are required to negotiate grades.



Yes detached homes have more exterior walls but labor is cheap for the no brainer repetitive tasks. Attached project requires more intellectual calculation, coordination and often due to tighter site constraints thus requiring much more civil coordination and complex infrastructure. As a result more labor cost and higher salary workers are needed for the attached project.



Take the same philosopy and add a vertical dimension to the products such as a highrise residential. There is a huge saving on less exterior walls and roofs but does it mean it is cheap to build?</blockquote>


Then why would anybody then build attached properties? It seems like building detached condos/townhouses/whatever would be the best bet in terms of profit potential.</blockquote>


Varieties in Irvine and market segmentation. Some buyers like more footage but do not mind being attached. IR likes the larger TH over the Detached condos. Attached is cheaper per sf than detached condos.



Cal Pac were the dedicated detached condo builder on the Ranch and now the position is vacant. I think Laing Hoe or William Lying would vie for the detached condo position. Neither is a good or experienced detached condo builder.
 
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