Why the Bailout Is Bad

The Bush administration, through Hank Paulson, has just proposed a massive bailout of the financial industry. The proposal is blatantly unjust, since the taxpayers do not get value for the money. The proposal also incites massive corruption, by combining massive opportunities for insider dealing and favoritism with blanket immunity from criminal prosecution or regulatory review. Many are suggesting similar proposals with these outrageous faults fixed, notably Senator Chris Dodd. This misses the point however, because the fundamental mechanism of the Paulson plan does not address our economic problems. Adding fairness and honest dealing to the fatally flawed Paulson plan still leaves a dysfunctional $700,000,000,000 waste of money.



To understand why, consider how massive bubbles, such as the one we have been through, harm the economy. In a bubble, asset prices become inflated, often to crazy levels. This is a problem because prices are the signals we use to decide what we do and when. As the prices fail to reflect reality, our actions based on those prices become increasingly erroneous. We make mistakes, damaging or failing to protect what we hold dear.



An example might be a family owning a house during the recent real estate bubble. As the price increases, the family believes (incorrectly) it is wealthier. They choose to take out loans against their house so they can enjoy part of their wealth now. This would be perfectly rational if they were wealthier ? a wealthy family shouldn?t scrimp and save now for frivolous luxury later. But, in actuality, the wealth is an illusion, and now that prices are returning to reality, the family has chosen to scrimp and save in the future (to pay off their debt) for frivolous luxury now. They wouldn?t have chosen this had they known the real situation, but the misleading house price has led them to a bad decision.



In some cases such a family may default. This will reduce their loss, but by shifting it onto the lenders. Society is no better off. Arguably, society is worse off, because most call the transfer of wealth bad even though it?s not easily described that way with utilitarian economics (this is a limitation of utilitarian economics).



Homebuilders also have also been led astray by the bogus prices. Seeing profit, they have built vast McMansion farms and giant condo towers. But the prices were wrong, and by the real prices emerging the work and goods used to build them are worth more than the housing. The economy as a whole is worse off from the massive waste.



As long as the prices are bubbly, the decisions are bad and harm accumulates. So in an asset bubble the first goal of public policy is to get prices to a accurate level. Kind of ?Do No Harm?, an economic analogue to the Hippocratic oath.



The fundamental problem with the Paulson plan is that it works by propping up the value of mortgage securities. By buying them above a market price, it transfers money to the security owners. But just as house prices guide families? actions, security prices guide financial firms? actions. Like our family, other firms, seeing the prices of their securities increase, will act on the assumption they have money they don?t and consequently make deals or loans bad for them and the economy. Like our homebuilder, other firms will use the prices as indicators to make more, incorrect, construction deals, and more wasteful construction will drain our wealth.



This, then, is the problem with these bailout plans. Not only do they fail to help the underlying problem, they make it worse. If we must spend $2,000 for every man, woman, and child in America, let?s at least help the underlying problem, not worsen it.



No on the bailout.
 
Ok, I agree but do you Buy the agument about if we dont do it the credit will freeze up.



lets face it easy credit is endemic in the usa. The govt abuses it worse than any one.

only clinton managed to run a buget surplus.

Then Bush squandered it.- By attacking the wrong country (Iraq)



Have you seen one politician or the fed come right out and say we are in a bubble, home prices are to high, they need to correct.

they will correct and if you have money that in the bubble in any form tough shit. you are going to lose your money, your house is going to lose value. Sorry thats economics?



Question?



Why is it it bad to bail out wall street. but not bad to run up a huge WAR/debt??

-the war is good for big oil.

-the war is good for military/industrial complex.

-the war is proping up the economy.



wht not thy to solve the muslim fundamentalism problem through non violent means.



"to kill your enemy only proves him right"



This is off topic in a way but how much of the national debt is due to military spending??? 50%? 75%??
 
And the alternative would be....



Right..let the debt market seize up and let companies falter because they wouldn't be able to finance their daily operations.



Perfect, anyone have some extra guns lying around they want to sell?
 
maybe Blackwater can ship some of those ak-47s their take from Iraqi civillians. LOL



sounds like damned if you do and damned if you dont. BUT are they lying. or rather withholding. or more like blackmailing?? no one said the root of the problem is credit bubble? why not Mass Panic?
 
[quote author="ventouxbob" date=1222306871]maybe Blackwater can ship some of those ak-47s their take from Iraqi civillians. LOL



sounds like damned if you do and damned if you dont. BUT are they lying. or rather withholding. or more like blackmailing?? <strong>no one said the root of the problem is credit bubble? </strong>why not Mass Panic?</blockquote>


I guess the term "Credit Market" means something else nowadays?
 
Companies and households which do not depend on credit will do just fine.



When I came home from work yesterday, there was a chore waiting for me. The toilet was stopped up.



I could have sat down, added to the problem, and tried flushing again, but the better solution was to get out a plunger and plunge.



The problem is debt/credit and adding more debt is akin to ____ing in a toilet that needs plunging. Some people define insanity as repeating the same behavior over and over with the hopes of a different outcome. Let the credit markets sieze. It is time to find out who is not wearing any clothes.
 
[quote author="Astute Observer" date=1222314130]Most of the time, the toilet will clear when you flush it the second time, without overspilling. I am sure the same idea is on the mind when they come up with the bailout. Just cross your fingers, and pull the flush lever.... if you are lucky, there will no less hassle, and no mess. We Americans are always looking for an easy (albeit risky) way to solve things, which is superior than the use of proven solution like plunger, which is not very elegant.</blockquote>


That's a great analogy, although a 700B$ bailout doesn't sound like "less hassle and no mess".



I think now we're more at the level where even the plunger isn't working and we have to start thinking about getting a new toilet...
 
Apologize if these have been posted already. Links to no bailout petitions to sign:



<a href="http://www.stopthehousingbailout.com/">http://www.stopthehousingbailout.com/</a>



<a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/bailout/petition.html">http://www.petitiononline.com/bailout/petition.html</a>



<a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/bailout/petition.html">http://www.angryrenter.com/</a>
 
[quote author="skek" date=1222326270]You might want to hurry,...



<blockquote><strong><a href="http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/paulson-senate-dems-reach-tentative-bailout-deal-2008-09-24.html">Paulson, Senate Dems reach tentative bailout deal</a></strong>



Senators said Paulson and the Democrats struck very tentative deals on Democratic demands on oversight and transparency, executive pay limits, and equity interest on taxpayers? behalf as part of the massive plan. A hard-fought Democratic provision to allow bankruptcy judges to revise mortgage terms was not likely to survive the horse-trading, however, as Paulson would not agree to the provision that is already in the House and Senate versions.



Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) said a bill could be produced as early as Thursday, with debate and a vote likely over the weekend. Ideally, Durbin said the Senate would finish the bill before Wall Street opens on Monday.</blockquote></blockquote>


Right, so it is obviously going to happen and we have to accept it. With that said, will all that money on the sidelines be put back to work next week? And if so, in what areas will it go? Also, keep in mind that this global slow down will possibly force a coordinated lowering of rates worldwide in hopes to turn things around. My guess is energy, materials, and other commodities will become the "next big thing" over the next few years.



Does this make sense considering the inflation headwinds we'll be facing?
 
Courtesty of CurbedNY



<a href="http://curbed.com/archives/2008/09/24/gowanus_building_updated_for_wall_street_meltdown.php">Now THAT's a tag I don't mind</a>



<img src="http://curbed.com/uploads/2008_09_Gowanus Building.jpg" alt="" />
 
[quote author="optimusprime" date=1222305794]And the alternative would be....



Right..let the debt market seize up and let companies falter because they wouldn't be able to finance their daily operations.



Perfect, anyone have some extra guns lying around they want to sell?</blockquote>


I don't want to see the debt market freeze up. But right now we're seeing that as long as the Fed has suitable discount/auction windows open there's credit available. Right now if they opened up a larger 30-90 loan action window I think there would be no serious credit problems for real business (credit is going to get somewhat tighter; but that's just reality returning after a long binge).



Anyway, none of the major plans proposed would do anything worthwhile to help the current debt market problems. Even after Paulson or Dodd/Frank the banks would still be insolvent but loaded down with so many Level 3 securities you couldn't figure out which. So no reliable lending. And the Republican plan would do nothing at all to the credit markets, just let some people with capital gains evade taxes. I recommend doing something, but I actually think we would be *worse* off after any of those 3 plans. Even if you have to do something you shouldn't do the *wrong* thing!
 
[quote author="FairEconomist" date=1222514555]I don't want to see the debt market freeze up. But right now we're seeing that as long as the Fed has suitable discount/auction windows open there's credit available. Right now if they opened up a larger 30-90 loan action window I think there would be no serious credit problems for real business (credit is going to get somewhat tighter; but that's just reality returning after a long binge).



Anyway, none of the major plans proposed would do anything worthwhile to help the current debt market problems. Even after Paulson or Dodd/Frank the banks would still be insolvent but loaded down with so many Level 3 securities you couldn't figure out which. So no reliable lending. And the Republican plan would do nothing at all to the credit markets, just let some people with capital gains evade taxes. I recommend doing something, but I actually think we would be *worse* off after any of those 3 plans. Even if you have to do something you shouldn't do the *wrong* thing!</blockquote>


I've been telling anyone who will listen that the FedRes should just accept the CP right from the sources, instantly resolving the supposed "crisis". Unfortunately, no one wants to seriously consider it as an option because it leaves the banks with no choice but to take the writedowns or keep them as T3 assets in perpetuity. Thanks for affirming that my idea wasn't *completely* loony.
 
While I'm pushing for an amelioration approach, I think a *good* bailout could also be a good approach. Bebchuck's plan is certainly a good bailout.



The only useful plan I've heard from a politician is, of all people, Hillary's buy-and-modify approach for mortgages. That wouldn't address the credit crunch - it's a long term approach - and it's limited by the fact that only some mortgages can be usefully modified. But at least it would help.
 
Do we all understand yet that the banks unwillingness to use the term auction facilities which have a 28 day term, and many extensions to come, is the banks way of saying that this is not a liquidity problem? The banks have cheap and easy facilities available for liquidity. The banks are blackmailing the public and the politicians by saying that if you do not give us money and relieve of us our bad paper, we will cause financial turmoil.



This is not as complicated as Paulson and company would have you believe. If the Jones family has too much debt and can not make all their payments and the Jones family starts screaming that if you don't lend them some more money and forgive their previous bad debts, they will no longer make any payments, what do you do if you are the lender? And what do you do if you do not have the money to loan the Jones yourself, and in order to loan the Jones some more money, you will have to promise that your children will pay for the money you borrow in order to loan it to the Jones?



When the Jones stop paying, it will hurt. It will hurt because you have been counting on the Jones payments for a few years now and use their payments to make your own payments and house payment and so on. But, do you think it will hurt any less, if you borrow from your children's future and loan their future to the Jones? Do you realize that it is inevitable that at some point the Jones will stop paying? You can postpone the pain, but the longer you postpone, the worse the ultimate pain will be and the more money you will have to borrow to loan to the Jones. The Jones are blackmailing you with pain now, so what are you going to do?



Yes, it will hurt. And it will be a financial catastrophe, but there are only two options. Mega pain now, or more than mega pain later, and quite possibly pain for your children and your children's children.



There is no way out without the pain. And it will be bad. Many people will be hurt.



The only way to avoid a credit crisis is with more credit. But, more credit only postpones the crisis and makes the end result worse. This is not the first time in history this has happened. This is nothing new. We are not more financially sophisticated. We are just a generation which has not experienced a massive credit crisis, which makes us more ignorant than sophisticated.



Can you cure a heroin addiction with more heroin?
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1222518540]Do we all understand yet that the banks unwillingness to use the term auction facilities which have a 28 day term, and many extensions to come, is the banks way of saying that this is not a liquidity problem? The banks have cheap and easy facilities available for liquidity. The banks are blackmailing the public and the politicians by saying that if you do not give us money and relieve of us our bad paper, we will cause financial turmoil.



This is not as complicated as Paulson and company would have you believe. If the Jones family has too much debt and can not make all their payments and the Jones family starts screaming that if you don't lend them some more money and forgive their previous bad debts, they will no longer make any payments, what do you do if you are the lender? And what do you do if you do not have the money to loan the Jones yourself, and in order to loan the Jones some more money, you will have to promise that your children will pay for the money you borrow in order to loan it to the Jones?



When the Jones stop paying, it will hurt. It will hurt because you have been counting on the Jones payments for a few years now and use their payments to make your own payments and house payment and so on. But, do you think it will hurt any less, if you borrow from your children's future and loan their future to the Jones? Do you realize that it is inevitable that at some point the Jones will stop paying? You can postpone the pain, but the longer you postpone, the worse the ultimate pain will be and the more money you will have to borrow to loan to the Jones. The Jones are blackmailing you with pain now, so what are you going to do?



Yes, it will hurt. And it will be a financial catastrophe, but there are only two options. Mega pain now, or more than mega pain later, and quite possibly pain for your children and your children's children.



There is no way out without the pain. And it will be bad. Many people will be hurt.



The only way to avoid a credit crisis is with more credit. But, more credit only postpones the crisis and makes the end result worse. This is not the first time in history this has happened. This is nothing new. We are not more financially sophisticated. We are just a generation which has not experienced a massive credit crisis, which makes us more ignorant than sophisticated.



Can you cure a heroin addiction with more heroin?</blockquote>
Sure you can...until the addict dies of an OD.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1222519636][quote author="awgee" date=1222518540]

Can you cure a heroin addiction with more heroin?</blockquote>
Sure you can...until the addict dies of an OD.</blockquote>
What's the over/under on Amy Winehouse kicking the habit before we do?
 
I really dislike the idea of a $700B bailout but things are really starting to go down the crapper for the financial industry and the ripple effects will have serious effects for main street. The <a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-credit27-2008sep27,0,7145620.story">credit markets are freezing up</a> and that will drive the economy into a deep recession. We have had a series of major multi-billion dollar companies go bust or need bailouts (Bear, Lehman, AIG, Fannie, Freddie, WAMU, etc...) and there will probably be <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122246312342980035.html">more to come</a>. All of this bad bad news makes me want to sell all my stock and savings and buy short term T-bills until the crisis passes. I don't even feel comfortable with my own FDIC insured savings account anymore.



If the bailout plan falters I think we will be in for a serious world of pain for quite some time. Housing prices will be the least of our worries. Unemployment will skyrocket as credit freezes and business go under for lack of liquidity and the <a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/26906947/site/14081545/">stock market will tank.</a> Even though the Fed can open the short term discount window it can not force banks to lend to each other. This is a serious problem of confidence within the credit markets. I am not sure what the right solution is but it better be big, swift, and on target.
 
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