Why do Republicans want to take the term "Conservative" away from David Brooks?
- Thread starter no_vaseline_IHB
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I've only thought of no_vas as fixated with rectal thermometers ...
BLT if somone made a racial stereotype about Obama you would fly off the charts. Racial stereotyping is racist in itself, nowhere did you mention Apu. Apu works in a qwickie Mart not a 7/11.
As for Jindal I really don't care at this point about him. He is not running for any office that particularly interests me at the time. I understand he was going to be the Republicans answer to a young, ethinic, cool guy (like Obama) and it didn't work.
What I tend to find when I try to discuss any issue with you is you divert the attention from the point and generalize about me or my political beliefs or dismiss all together what I think as though it is wrong simply because you said so.
To be completely honest I had never read the times article before Winex linked to it. When I read it I formed the opinion that was a stupid, reckless, Un American thing to do. I quoted 3 things from the article that helped me form my opinion. Then your link helped me as well when the NY times admitted they were not sure the government had broken any laws.
The NY times knowingly published classified information that was helping the government track down members of a terrorist group that hijacked planes and flew them into buildings on American soil. A terrorist group that continued to and continues to this day to try to attack Americans and their allies at home and abroad.
I stopped and thought if my political views tarnished my opinion and came to the conclusion that if a Democrat was in office at the time and the Times published that same article I would still come to the same opinion today.
Yes the article was written years ago but it does not obsolve the times in my eyes.
So how many more years would you consider it necessary to spy on Americans ?
To check on our international wire transfers ? To check on our incoming international telephone calls ? Do you think that warrantless collection of personal information should continue without oversight ? Yes America was attacted on 9/11. Mistakes were made in the
intellegence community that led up to that event. But does it justify the loss of freedoms as defined in the Bill of Rights ? For an undefined period of time ? I can justify this in times of a Declared War. Just seems to me the medicine is becoming worse than the disease. We continue to lose our rights at every turn. Whats next the right to travel from state to state without permit? The right to a free press ? The right to assemble ?
Its like being a little pregnant. You either abide by the Bill of Rights and Constitution to the letter. Or you dont. It seems like we have strayed off the path our founding fathers gave us. I am proud we have a free press that can "out" the crimes against the people.
BLT I will be very specific on my feeling. It is YOUR feeling that this is unconstitiutional and illegal but even the article you linked to said it had never been proven illegal. I will have to stick to the Presumption of innocence that is inherent to our country. Since not one person was tried and convicted of any wrong doing and only propenents "believe" it "may" be illegal I will have to hold out that it wasn't illegal. That is how our justice system works. I cannot declare a person guilty of a crime simply because I believe it to be a crime.
I have no problem with the Obama administration investigating any and all abuses under the Bush administration and giving them a fair trial under the constitution. That has not happened in this specific case.
Do I agree with alot of what happened after 9/11? Not really, do I think the goverments goal at the time was to trample our rights. Not at all. This was a new paradigm and nobody had a clue what to do so they improvised. Some good, some bad, some ugly. All I can say is that after 9/11 we haven't been attacked and for that I am happy.
My happiness is based on the foundation that no more planes were flown into buildings. No Bridges, Tunnels etc were blown up.
During times through out American History the goverment has overstepped it's authority. FDR (a Democrat) signed Executive Order 9066 which opened the door to internment camps.
I personally find that more offensive and more of a violation of our contitution and civil rights then what the Bush adminstration did. Although this is a black eye to our country, as is some of what happened during the Bush administration, it did not cause the doomsday you are alluding to now.
If there was ever a time in our history that your scenario would play out it would have been then not now. There were no limits back then and we still came out of it ok.
Like I said we had a new paradigm some ideas were good, some were bad, some were ugly. National ID cards, bad Idea. Mail opened bad idea. Computer data being open to Homeland security perpetually, bad idea, short term not a bad idea.
http://www.housemd-guide.com/season3/305fools.php
When House first meets Tritter, Tritter complains about the two hour wait he just sat through. House glances at Tritter's problem (in the genital area) and comes up with an instant diagnosis, but Tritter wants a test. House refuses referring to stubborn idiots as he writes a note on the chart he hasn't done more than glance at.
Tritter says, "You're rude."
"Wow, you're like a detective or something."
"And you're smart. And you're funny. But you are bitter and you're lonely. So, you treat everyone around like they're idiots. And you get away with it 'cause of your cane."
"Please stop. It's hard to write through the haze of bitter tears."
"But you're not actually getting away with it. Last nurse you made fun of she probably slipped some crap into your coffee...."
When House gets up to leave, Tritter trips him. "Treat people like jerks, you get treated like a jerk." House takes the specimen for the test but then gives Tritter a rectum thermometer and the leaves and doesn't return.
green_cactus_IHB
New member
tmare said:
I've only thought of no_vas as fixated with rectal thermometers ...
bltserv_IHB
New member
I do know No_Vas has an affinity for good looking Bovines.
trrenter_IHB
New member
BLT if somone made a racial stereotype about Obama you would fly off the charts. Racial stereotyping is racist in itself, nowhere did you mention Apu. Apu works in a qwickie Mart not a 7/11.
As for Jindal I really don't care at this point about him. He is not running for any office that particularly interests me at the time. I understand he was going to be the Republicans answer to a young, ethinic, cool guy (like Obama) and it didn't work.
What I tend to find when I try to discuss any issue with you is you divert the attention from the point and generalize about me or my political beliefs or dismiss all together what I think as though it is wrong simply because you said so.
To be completely honest I had never read the times article before Winex linked to it. When I read it I formed the opinion that was a stupid, reckless, Un American thing to do. I quoted 3 things from the article that helped me form my opinion. Then your link helped me as well when the NY times admitted they were not sure the government had broken any laws.
The NY times knowingly published classified information that was helping the government track down members of a terrorist group that hijacked planes and flew them into buildings on American soil. A terrorist group that continued to and continues to this day to try to attack Americans and their allies at home and abroad.
I stopped and thought if my political views tarnished my opinion and came to the conclusion that if a Democrat was in office at the time and the Times published that same article I would still come to the same opinion today.
Yes the article was written years ago but it does not obsolve the times in my eyes.
bltserv_IHB
New member
trrenter said:
So how many more years would you consider it necessary to spy on Americans ?
To check on our international wire transfers ? To check on our incoming international telephone calls ? Do you think that warrantless collection of personal information should continue without oversight ? Yes America was attacted on 9/11. Mistakes were made in the
intellegence community that led up to that event. But does it justify the loss of freedoms as defined in the Bill of Rights ? For an undefined period of time ? I can justify this in times of a Declared War. Just seems to me the medicine is becoming worse than the disease. We continue to lose our rights at every turn. Whats next the right to travel from state to state without permit? The right to a free press ? The right to assemble ?
Its like being a little pregnant. You either abide by the Bill of Rights and Constitution to the letter. Or you dont. It seems like we have strayed off the path our founding fathers gave us. I am proud we have a free press that can "out" the crimes against the people.
trrenter_IHB
New member
bltserv said:
BLT I will be very specific on my feeling. It is YOUR feeling that this is unconstitiutional and illegal but even the article you linked to said it had never been proven illegal. I will have to stick to the Presumption of innocence that is inherent to our country. Since not one person was tried and convicted of any wrong doing and only propenents "believe" it "may" be illegal I will have to hold out that it wasn't illegal. That is how our justice system works. I cannot declare a person guilty of a crime simply because I believe it to be a crime.
I have no problem with the Obama administration investigating any and all abuses under the Bush administration and giving them a fair trial under the constitution. That has not happened in this specific case.
Do I agree with alot of what happened after 9/11? Not really, do I think the goverments goal at the time was to trample our rights. Not at all. This was a new paradigm and nobody had a clue what to do so they improvised. Some good, some bad, some ugly. All I can say is that after 9/11 we haven't been attacked and for that I am happy.
bltserv_IHB
New member
Your happiness may be misguided and one dimensional in the larger scheme of reality.
The terrorists have won when they force us to suspend our civil liberties
and enable a secret police state to begin to enforce its will upon the American public.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090302/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terror_memos
So would you accept losing your rights under the terms that no more "attacks" took place ?
Like having a National ID that you would need to show at Random Checkpoints ?
Or having all of your mail opened ? Having all of your computer data open to
the Department of Homeland Security ? Torture and Rentitions without charges or trials ?
Thanks to the fact we have term limits it looks like the dreams of a totalitarian
state that some envisioned for America has vanished.
The terrorists have won when they force us to suspend our civil liberties
and enable a secret police state to begin to enforce its will upon the American public.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090302/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terror_memos
So would you accept losing your rights under the terms that no more "attacks" took place ?
Like having a National ID that you would need to show at Random Checkpoints ?
Or having all of your mail opened ? Having all of your computer data open to
the Department of Homeland Security ? Torture and Rentitions without charges or trials ?
Thanks to the fact we have term limits it looks like the dreams of a totalitarian
state that some envisioned for America has vanished.
trrenter_IHB
New member
bltserv said:
My happiness is based on the foundation that no more planes were flown into buildings. No Bridges, Tunnels etc were blown up.
During times through out American History the goverment has overstepped it's authority. FDR (a Democrat) signed Executive Order 9066 which opened the door to internment camps.
I personally find that more offensive and more of a violation of our contitution and civil rights then what the Bush adminstration did. Although this is a black eye to our country, as is some of what happened during the Bush administration, it did not cause the doomsday you are alluding to now.
If there was ever a time in our history that your scenario would play out it would have been then not now. There were no limits back then and we still came out of it ok.
Like I said we had a new paradigm some ideas were good, some were bad, some were ugly. National ID cards, bad Idea. Mail opened bad idea. Computer data being open to Homeland security perpetually, bad idea, short term not a bad idea.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
green_cactus said:tmare said:
I've only thought of no_vas as fixated with rectal thermometers ...
http://www.housemd-guide.com/season3/305fools.php
When House first meets Tritter, Tritter complains about the two hour wait he just sat through. House glances at Tritter's problem (in the genital area) and comes up with an instant diagnosis, but Tritter wants a test. House refuses referring to stubborn idiots as he writes a note on the chart he hasn't done more than glance at.
Tritter says, "You're rude."
"Wow, you're like a detective or something."
"And you're smart. And you're funny. But you are bitter and you're lonely. So, you treat everyone around like they're idiots. And you get away with it 'cause of your cane."
"Please stop. It's hard to write through the haze of bitter tears."
"But you're not actually getting away with it. Last nurse you made fun of she probably slipped some crap into your coffee...."
When House gets up to leave, Tritter trips him. "Treat people like jerks, you get treated like a jerk." House takes the specimen for the test but then gives Tritter a rectum thermometer and the leaves and doesn't return.