Who gave big money to ban gay marriage? (yes on 8)

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I think it's pretty lousy that either side would post the names of individuals (not businesses) that donate to one side of the cause or another. Afterall, what if one of these people becomes the victim of a hate crime because of it?
 
I have to agree with you SoCal.....businesses are in fair play because I don't want my gay dollars going there anymore, but individuals.... not so much.
 
Like it or not, it's all public record. This guy didn't fish the books out of the trash bin for the Yes on 8 campaign. You can see<a href="http://cal-access.sos.ca.gov/Campaign/Measures/Detail.aspx?id=1302602&session=2007"> the full list here</a>. (The design is clunky. Just play around and you can see who donated what to each committee.)



Here's the thing: These individuals donated to a political campaign. The campaign finance laws were passed in the early '70s. While the people donating to the campaigns may not have known that their donations were public record, it's not like it was a secret. Ignorance of the law and all.



<strong>Further edit:</strong> I would also posit an additional question, and that is if people were inclined to donate money in support of Proposition 8, shouldn't they have the courage of their convictions to stand up "publicly"* and say so?







*Although it is "public" only in the sense of being buried in the campaign finance disclosures unless the people/organizations announce it themselves.





<strong>Further, further edit:</strong> I have also noticed a couple of doctors and lawyers, and others who provide "personal" services on the list. I would think a gay person would want to know if their doctor, lawyer, or personal service provider contributed to Yes on 8 so as to select someone who isn't antagonistic to them to care for them or their life needs.
 
You could consider it like voting. People are not ashamed of who they vote for, but not everybody wants to shout it from the mountain tops. To many it is a personal topic. Instead of trying to "shame" the other side, maybe they should just post who DID donate to their cause, instead of who donated to the other side. Just a thought.
 
SoCal, if you click on my link, you will see that it takes you to the California Secretary of State's website, who is mandated by law to disclose certain information about political donations.
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1226364401]SoCal, if you click on my link, you will see that it takes you to the California Secretary of State's website, who is mandated by law to disclose certain information about political donations.</blockquote>


I did click on your link and view it before submitting my last comment. Thanks for providing that info. But, in the original link posted by Nowway, the data is extracted and only the other side's supporters are listed.
 
SoCal, I may be misinterpreting your posts, but are you feeling like a victim to the No on 8 folks? With the exception of isolated instances, all the protest methods used are perfectly legal and non-violent. I don't really understand where you are coming from. Could you help?
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1226365206]SoCal, I may be misinterpreting your posts, but are you feeling like a victim to the No on 8 folks? With the exception of isolated instances, all the protest methods used are perfectly legal and non-violent. I don't really understand where you are coming from. Could you help?</blockquote>


Thanks for gathering more info. To clarify, I am not on the donor list... so I don't feel victimized.



In regards to protests...



Victimized? No. Deceived? Yes.



I am not a member of the congregation at Saddleback Church. I do not feel victimized by that protest.



I did have a conversation once with a gay woman who told me she did not like protests at gay pride parades and said she would never dream of protesting at a religious pride day because it just isn?t nice. I believed her and of course it caused me to sympathize. I could really see things from her point of view. Now I open the paper and see that. I come to this board and see this. Which way is up? Who?s on first?



Thank you, truly, for reading.
 
Don't get me started on gay pride parades....personally, I don't think they help all that much.....because the press never takes pictures of the average couple walking with their kids, they put pics on the front page of the drag queens and leather guys wearing next to nothing....for the sensationalism. But to each their own, and I've participated in many.



We do indeed, have "fringe members" within our "fringe group".....I just wish they didn't get all the attention....I feel like when that happens, the straight community at large (who doesn't have a positive average example of a gay person in their life) believes we are all like that.



SoCal, the one woman you spoke to doesn't represent my entire community. I think the group is trying to bring attention to "Preaching love and acceptance on Sunday, but discrimination on Tuesday".
 
I saw a good sign the other day at one of the protests. It depicted two water fountains with the word "gay" over one and "straight" over the other....



So for those that think "Domestic Partnerships" are satisfactory, and that we shouldn't be pushing for "Marriage"..... I ask you to look at the below picture and consider this:



What's the difference....it's still water, right ? /sarcasm



<img src="http://www.littleafrica.com/slaves/drinking.JPG" alt="" />
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1226360232]I think it's pretty lousy that either side would post the names of individuals (not businesses) that donate to one side of the cause or another. Afterall, what if one of these people becomes the victim of a hate crime because of it?</blockquote>


I have no beef in this other than passive dislike of bigotry, but would casually make a stereotype observation that gay people are much less likely to resort to violence than the religious zealots on the other end. Besides, if people making large donations wanted to hide their identity they could, but I suspect that they actually want to be known.
 
I think SoCal78 got a valid point: we don't really need to know the names of the individuals who donated to either side, that just seems petty to me. Businesses are different, if that's important to some people to know their doctors or vendors political views, that is the one of the reasons we have these disclosures.
 
[quote author="SoCal78" date=1226365780][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1226365206]SoCal, I may be misinterpreting your posts, but are you feeling like a victim to the No on 8 folks? With the exception of isolated instances, all the protest methods used are perfectly legal and non-violent. I don't really understand where you are coming from. Could you help?</blockquote>


Thanks for gathering more info. To clarify, I am not on the donor list... so I don't feel victimized.



In regards to protests...



Victimized? No. Deceived? Yes.



I am not a member of the congregation at Saddleback Church. I do not feel victimized by that protest.



I did have a conversation once with a gay woman who told me she did not like protests at gay pride parades and said she would never dream of protesting at a religious pride day because it just isn?t nice. I believed her and of course it caused me to sympathize. I could really see things from her point of view. Now I open the paper and see that. I come to this board and see this. Which way is up? Who?s on first?



Thank you, truly, for reading.</blockquote>


Oops! I responded to your protest question in another thread.



If possible, I would encourage you to not feel deceived, unless you see the woman you spoke to in the protest. After all, she was explaining her position, and there is no one gay person who speaks for all gays.



I'll share with you my perspective: I really thought Prop 8 wouldn't pass. I really did. And I am flabbergasted that it didn't. Now while I am surprised and disappointed, and even a little shell shocked, the outcome does not affect my day to day life at all. There are many people for whom it does, and after a lifetime being told they were lesser beings, they were really looking forward to being considered equal under the law, even if not in everyone's eyes. So if I'm shell shocked, it's not a stretch to think that those who are personally affected have been shaken to their core - and have all the raw emotions that come along with it: anger, disappointment, utter black disconsolate grief for what almost was. If protests for a couple of weeks helps them work through those emotions, I'm ok with that.
 
After being gone for a while I finally have gotten caught up on some threads, here is my input:



I gave money -- but not big money :) to support YES on Prop 8 because I felt it is the right thing for the the family and feel it is the core unit of society. Others on the PROP 8 threads have done a great job explaining other reasons so I'll leave my explanation here. I'm also a member of <a href="http://www.mormon.org">The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints</a>. The comments on here and expletive name calling about the church or its members are not appreciated.



Contrary to popular belief: 1. We were not the only ones behind the <a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/11/70-of-african-a.html">YES on 8 vote</a> and 2. We did not provide a majority of funds rather <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/09/MNU1140AQQ.DTL">40 percent of funds with help by others like The Catholic Church</a>.



The effort was good overall but challenging at times. Personally I know friends who had signs stolen, and my car was vandalized. Not very tolerant. Other examples are below.



<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>
 
I like this one:



<object width="325" height="250"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/youtube" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="325" height="250"></embed></object>



Mormons rummaging through underwear drawers.
 
<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081112/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage">Gay couples start marrying in Connecticut</a>



NEW HAVEN, Conn. ? A judge cleared the way Wednesday for gay marriage to begin Wednesday in Connecticut, a victory for advocates stung by California's referendum that banned same-sex unions in that state.



Couples immediately marched to New Haven City Hall to get marriage licenses, and less than two hours after the final court hearing, Peg Oliveira and Jennifer Vickery were married in a brief ceremony next to New Haven City Hall.



"I feel so happy," said Vickery, a 44-year-old attorney. "It's so much more emotional than I expected."



Gay marriage is legal now only in Connecticut and Massachusetts. The unions were legal in California until a statewide referendum to ban gay marriage narrowly passed last week. The vote has sparked protests and several lawsuits asking that state's Supreme Court to overturn the prohibition.
 
[quote author="mediaboyz" date=1226500722]

I gave money -- but not big money :) to support YES on Prop 8 because I felt it is the right thing for the the family and feel it is the core unit of society. Others on the PROP 8 threads have done a great job explaining other reasons so I'll leave my explanation here. I'm also a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.</blockquote>


Thanks for sharing. [Snark] If there is any group we should trust on knowing what is best for marriage, it is the Mormons. :bug: Let's just hope we don't get a proposition next year requiring us to wear <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment">special underwear</a>. [/Snark]
 
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