what happens when you buy a house with unpermited structures on the estate?

[quote author="Knife Catcher" date=1248146006]What could happen?</blockquote>


You could be attacked by killer penguins.



I dunno, without <em>some</em> details, I have no clue what you could possibly be talking about. Not trying to be mean, but at least put <em>some</em> effort into it.
 
like there is a separately built guest house that is not permitted. What fines and civil penalties can be put on me. Will the city order the destruction of said structure?
 
Knife Catcher - as the new owner, you'll be legally responsible for the illegal structure. You said its a detached guest structure. There are a couple of things you can do: (1) try to legalize it by submitting plans. It's unclear whether this would be sufficient without knowing the physical layout of your property and the City's zoning code. However, it'll probably be costly because in order to legalize a structure, you'll need to expose some of the structure so they can inspect. This can be costly and cost prohibitive; or (2) You can demo the structure.



If you don't legalize or demo the structure, the City can do several things: (1) bring criminal action against you for violations of the municipal code, (2) issue you civil citations ($100, $500, and $1000 per citation for each successive citation), (3) get a civil injunction to order you to abate the illegal condition on your property, or (4) seek a warrant to enter on your property and demo the structure (this is the least likely unless there is an immediate threat to public safety (i.e., its about to collapse)).



Also, if you don't legalize the structure, the City can also deny you any other permits you might need for other things, such as building permits, variances, etc.



Hope this helps.
 
[quote author="jwlam" date=1248147901]Knife Catcher - as the new owner, you'll be legally responsible for the illegal structure. You said its a detached guest structure. There are a couple of things you can do: (1) try to legalize it by submitting plans. It's unclear whether this would be sufficient without knowing the physical layout of your property and the City's zoning code. However, it'll probably be costly because in order to legalize a structure, you'll need to expose some of the structure so they can inspect. This can be costly and cost prohibitive; or (2) You can demo the structure.



If you don't legalize or demo the structure, the City can do several things: (1) bring criminal action against you for violations of the municipal code, (2) issue you civil citations ($100, $500, and $1000 per citation for each successive citation), (3) get a civil injunction to order you to abate the illegal condition on your property, or (4) seek a warrant to enter on your property and demo the structure (this is the least likely unless there is an immediate threat to public safety (i.e., its about to collapse)).



Also, if you don't legalize the structure, the City can also deny you any other permits you might need for other things, such as building permits, variances, etc.



Hope this helps.</blockquote>


Now, keep in mind, all that will only happens if the city finds out about the unpermitted structure, which may never occur. Or it could happen tommorow. Some cities have inspectors who go looking for unpermitted stuff, or peruse satellite photos, but that's fairly unlikely. More likely is they find out because somebody tattles, or they go out to do something else and find the structure. That is, you file plans to build a pool and they see your unpermitted guest house, or you piss off an ex-girlfriend or neighbor who calls the city on you.



It's also unlikely that they will fine you prior to giving you siginificant notice to correct the problem-but correcting the problem may mean tearing it down. One thing about unpermitted structures is that they have to be brought up to today's code, not the code when they were built. It's possible it would pass when it was built two decades ago but wouldn't today.



It's also likely that if the person who built the structure didn't bother to get a permit, he might have done a lousy job building it as well. Insurance probably wouldn't cover damage caused by the unpermitted addition-if there was an electrical fire due to substandard wiring, you probably would be screwed.



If I was offering on a property with unpermitted additions or structures, I would value the propetry as if the structure didn't exist, minus tear down costs (so less than if it didn't exist). (I would tend to avoid them in general, however.)
 
Are building permits with the county or the city?



If someone wants to tattle, do they have to give their name, or can you do an anonymous complaint. (Reason I'm asking, in general most OC people are chicken... if they can do something and nobody knows its them, they will do it without thinking and claim its their god given right... but if they have to sign their name to it such that the person they are bitching about knows it was them, then they won't do it)
 
That's what I like about living in the ghetto; no one tattles on anyone 'cause everyone has something to hide :). Where I am complaints can be made anonymously. A couple stories I've heard involve a building inspector giving written notice that the unpermitted item has to come down by XX date. I've not heard of any fines being imposed. Considering how many unpermitted structures I see mentioned in Redfin listings, I would say that getting caught without someone complaining seems pretty rare.
 
[quote author="C Delroy Spuckler" date=1248167631]Are building permits with the county or the city?



If someone wants to tattle, do they have to give their name, or can you do an anonymous complaint. (Reason I'm asking, in general most OC people are chicken... if they can do something and nobody knows its them, they will do it without thinking and claim its their god given right... but if they have to sign their name to it such that the person they are bitching about knows it was them, then they won't do it)</blockquote>


Building permits are by city and the process/rules vary greatly. Yes, anyone who wants can tattle anonymously. I hate those people.
 
Those aren't the droids you're looking for... you can go about your business...



In some cities (Laguna, Tustin, Orange, SA, and CM) most will allow some grandfathering of unpermitted add ons. If you are still in the process of buying and you have an unpermitted add on, the lender will not add value to the unit - which will also happen when you go to sell. No value is given to unpermitted improvements by every lender.



Last case I ran into was a 2/1 converted into a 2/2. An extra bathroom was dropped into a walk in closet. The City of MV wanted about $1k worth of inspections and fees - providing that the bathroom did not have to be torn out. That buyer walked away from the property because of the possible problems beyond the costs from the City.



My .02c



Remember, Tuesday is Soylent Green Day.
 
I think you're missing a major point here.



I completely agree that it's an imperfect system, but the reason for requiring building permits is to assure that the structure meets building codes. And the purpose of building codes is public safety. A structure that has not been permitted has not been inspected by a knowledgable third party (the city inspector) to assure that the contractor has completed the work in a safe manner. If someone builds an unpermitted apartment in the back yard, why would they bother doing the electrical and plumbing systems to code, or tying the structure to the foundation to prevent collapse in an earthquake?



Then the question becomes, why would you want to live (or have your loved ones live) in a structure more likely to catch fire or collapse?
 
[quote author="C Delroy Spuckler" date=1248167631]Are building permits with the county or the city?



If someone wants to tattle, do they have to give their name, or can you do an anonymous complaint. (Reason I'm asking, in general most OC people are chicken... if they can do something and nobody knows its them, they will do it without thinking and claim its their god given right... but if they have to sign their name to it such that the person they are bitching about knows it was them, then they won't do it)</blockquote>


It can be anonymous, but when the garage is converted it's very difficult for the city to prove that there is unpermitted work done on it.
 
[quote author="GoIllini" date=1248344373]I think you're missing a major point here.



I completely agree that it's an imperfect system, but the reason for requiring building permits is to assure that the structure meets building codes. And the purpose of building codes is public safety. A structure that has not been permitted has not been inspected by a knowledgable third party (the city inspector) to assure that the contractor has completed the work in a safe manner. If someone builds an unpermitted apartment in the back yard, why would they bother doing the electrical and plumbing systems to code, or tying the structure to the foundation to prevent collapse in an earthquake?



Then the question becomes, why would you want to live (or have your loved ones live) in a structure more likely to catch fire or collapse?</blockquote>


exactly... it's a liability. if you still want to proceed with the property, you will either need to tear down or find out from the city what it would take to bring it up to code/permit, but you don't want to ignore it.
 
[quote author="stepping_up" date=1248345064][quote author="C Delroy Spuckler" date=1248167631]Are building permits with the county or the city?



If someone wants to tattle, do they have to give their name, or can you do an anonymous complaint. (Reason I'm asking, in general most OC people are chicken... if they can do something and nobody knows its them, they will do it without thinking and claim its their god given right... but if they have to sign their name to it such that the person they are bitching about knows it was them, then they won't do it)</blockquote>


It can be anonymous, but when the garage is converted it's very difficult for the city to prove that there is unpermitted work done on it.</blockquote>


The more obvious ones are ones where the outside structure was changed (or a new structure was built). Unpermitted garage conversions are extremely common, and usually leave the garage door intact to prevent detection. In my city, Riverside, the only legal way to convert a garage into living space is to build additional covered parking at the same time (you can cheat a little and just build a carport instead of a full garage). Every house built with covered parking must always have covered parking, and every house built since World War II or so must have covered parking. So, if you find a house in Riverside without covered parking, and it was built later than World War II, that house automatically had an unpermitted garage conversion.
 
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