What do you want to ask the Irvine Company?

Opinions as to neighborhood desirability, aesthetics, safety, prestige, predictions about a neighborhood's future, and even school test scores, are by nature subjective or at least subject to interpretation. There is only one objective comparision of neighborhoods not subject to interpretation or emotion: the amount that its residents paid to live there.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1248837480][quote author="traceimage" date=1248836993]Seriously, can somebody please start a Really-Nice-Places-In-Orange-County-Other-Than-Irvine Forum, so all the people who dislike Irvine so much can post there?</blockquote>


<a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewforum/4/">It's called the Orange County thread</a>. Which was essentially created because of me, and several other posters back then (circa 2007) that were interested in places other than Irvine. While this may be the "Irvine housing forums" it has developed into a much broader audience. If all we talked about was Irvine housing, this place would be a boring echo chamber, and that is why we have the dining, economy, off topic threads etc. BTW, I know of quite a few posters who have broaden there housing search away from Irvine because of the knowledge they gained from the posters who have exceptional knowledge of the areas outside of Irvine. I think they are quite happy for all the non-Irvine housing discussions.</blockquote>
And there is always the <a href="http://www.cotohousingblog.com/">Coto Housing Blog</a>. :p



Who dislikes Irvine? Not me.
 
[quote author="traceimage" date=1248838602] There's a definite bias against Irvine among a number of people here. It just strikes me as odd. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other for any city (except maybe my hometown, I guess), so I just don't understand why it pushes people's buttons.</blockquote>


Hating Irivne is sexy. Hating Irvine makes a statement of being a rebel, edgy, non-conformist, artistically inclined, and for some, cultural superiority.
 
I don't hate Irvine. I wanted to live there for a long time due to the proximity to tech jobs. I was jealous of my coworkers with 7 minute commutes. However, I noticed that the place was becoming over-run with condos and my interest waned. I can rent a condo and deal with the lessened privacy because I know it will be a temporary situation. I will not, however, buy a home where I have to keep my blinds shut all the time or I can hear the neighbor's phone ring. I'm over it. If different product started to be more widely available, I would consider Irvine again. In fact, Graph and I have discussed Orchard Hills...it all depends on timing.



I get the appreciation for the safety of Irvine, especially if you have children. I appreciated it, too, when I was a sheltered college freshman starting out at UCI. Irvine is a nice transitional city between the small-town boonies and more urban, conventional "city". It has its uses, even if it is highly sterile. As I grew up, I grew bored as well. That, and the conventional wisdom amongst UCI students was (maybe still is): "Irvine doesn't want us here. We mess with the master plan. 'They' hate having to deal with young people." Why stay somewhere I'm not welcome? Irvine is a great place for families, especially those who survive on routine. Maybe someday when my life meshes well with the master plan I'll come back. Who knows?



I honestly don't mind the Tuscan look. It's getting a bit old, but I don't think it's bad. Just don't paint the building orange, salmon, coral or pink.
 
I had a run in with Graphrix on here in 2007. Let me tell you. He's nut and cranky. Don't know why. He even drove to my neighborhood and took pictures back in '07. Kind of freaky if you ask me. Haha!



But what I've notice about the guy is he hates it when someone post misinformation. There were countless times when I actually believe what someone posted due to my lack of knowledge. Then out of nowhere Graphrix would debunk the poster with his usual historical data, graphs, etc. I for one appreciate that someone like him is on this blog to set the record straight. And what we read on here are not just some mumble jumbo thanks to his insight.



My Gosh! My first "thanks" from the guy after 2 freaking years! Haha! Ok, I take that back about you being cranky.
 
[quote author="irvine123" date=1248838213][quote author="tmare" date=1248832213]



As one of those "Irvine haters" I have to say that there are genuine reasons for these feelings.

... I have yet to find a single house that delivers any sort of decent aesthetic value.

It seems that those who want to or do live in Irvine give up quite a bit.

If it's not the uglier older homes, it seems to be a rental village of generic apartments.



I really don't want to bash any Irvine lovers, you have different values in what you find appealing in a neighborhood and I appreciate that.



</blockquote>


Though you say you appreciate others have different values, you have some really strong words / comments for those "different value". I don't understand how and why anyone can develop any "genuine reasons" to be a "Irvine hater"? What did Irvine do to you??



I am very curious.</blockquote>


I put "Irvine hater" in parenthesis because the previous poster talked about all of the "Irvine haters", I do not truly mean to say that I am an Irvine hater especially since I have plenty of friends who live there (my husband, on the other hand, IS an Irvine hater).



BTW, there are places in LA where it is very vogue to hang your laundry out to dry. It is hip among the "green" crowd and I think the previous poster is correct that clothes last much longer without the dryer. Personally, I just can't do it, but I have felt the social pressure to get a clothesline, pretty funny.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1248840675]I had a run in with Graphrix on here in 2007. Let me tell you. He's nut and cranky. Don't know why. He even drove to my neighborhood and took pictures back in '07. Kind of freaky if you ask me. Haha!



But what I've notice about the guy is he hates it when someone post misinformation. There were countless times when I actually believe what someone posted due to my lack of knowledge. Then out of nowhere Graphrix would debunk the poster with his usual historical data, graphs, etc. I for one appreciate that someone like him is on this blog to set the record straight. And what we read on here are not just some mumble jumbo thanks to his insight.



My Gosh! My first "thanks" from the guy after 2 freaking years! Haha! Ok, I take that back about you being cranky.</blockquote>


You think he is cranky now? We knew hm before he met Cayci.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1248842780][quote author="reason" date=1248840675]I had a run in with Graphrix on here in 2007. Let me tell you. He's nut and cranky. Don't know why. He even drove to my neighborhood and took pictures back in '07. Kind of freaky if you ask me. Haha!



But what I've notice about the guy is he hates it when someone post misinformation. There were countless times when I actually believe what someone posted due to my lack of knowledge. Then out of nowhere Graphrix would debunk the poster with his usual historical data, graphs, etc. I for one appreciate that someone like him is on this blog to set the record straight. And what we read on here are not just some mumble jumbo thanks to his insight.



My Gosh! My first "thanks" from the guy after 2 freaking years! Haha! Ok, I take that back about you being cranky.</blockquote>


You think he is cranky now? We knew hm before he met Cayci.</blockquote>


You're kidding? =)
 
[quote author="QHBruin" date=1248821078]As for graphrix. As one of the moderators on here, you really should care enough to listen to the conference call. </blockquote>


It's not that I didn't care as so much as I didn't have the time. I have a lot going on these days that are a much higher priority than taking the time to listen to a conference call. In fact, I didn't get around to having dinner until almost 9pm last night, and the need to consume food superseded the desire to listen to the call. As I stated before, I respected the IHBers who live or want to live in Irvine by not taking time away from them to be able to ask the questions they wanted to ask. I felt it was more important to those who live or want to live in Irvine, which I would have thought people would have thought that was a respectful thing to do... but maybe I am wrong. And, a big huge thanks to SoCal78 for transcribing the call. Thanks to her I have been able to read the entire call.



<blockquote>I find it odd why you would choose to moderate the Irvinehousingblog when you clearly ?hate? Irvine and would not envision yourself here.</blockquote>


I find it funny, that people think I "hate" Irvine. Yes, I am very critical of their products, and even the clusterf*ck feeling I get when I am in that maze of village called Woodbury, but I have also said many positive things about Irvine. In my rant about what I would ask TIC, I mentioned how BK designed some of the finest products that Irvine has to offer. I have also commented on I how I think the overall master plan of Irvine is probably the best suburban plan in the world. It is well known that the impact of negative information outweighs the positive information, so when people label me as biased (which I admit I am), they are hypocritical in their own selective bias in choosing to never see the positive comments. As Cayci stated, Orchard Hills is a possibility if the timing is right, the product is right, and the price is right. People seem to have also forgotten that OH has been on my radar for several years now. Again, people tend to only see the negative. N. Tustin has the type of product I want now, and will in the future when prices have come down in the future and when we are ready. Will OH have the same? I dunno, but I am not going to get my hopes up for something that may never happen.



<blockquote>By the way, it also detracts from the blog when the moderators start a post with ?I don?t know what crawled up your ass and died.? I?d think they?d be more, uh, ?moderate? and less reactionary. (Although it does make for more entertaining reading)</blockquote>


I agree, but tkaratz has been quite adversarial of late, and he also went off on a <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5760/#119360">tangent in the call transcript thread</a>. Plus, he has been around for a while, and I would hope he would make light of that comment and maybe even dish one back. For every one reactionary moderation I have, there are a hundred "moderate" moderations I have. Many of which go on behind the scenes that no one ever sees, or even notices. And... for the record, IR, nor IHB, nor CR have never called a bottom in prices... ever.



Again, for those who label me an "Irvine hater" and say that I am biased, stop and think or read more of my posts. You are hypocritically and guilty of the same thing by stating that. If the negative is all you want to see, and it appears to be the case, then that is all you will see. It's pretty sad if that is the case.
 
I hate it when graph goes all logical and stuff... I can't argue with him when he gets that way.



Take the smarty pants off... wait... that didn't sound right... put the cranky pants back on... doh... never mind.
 
Wow, this thread went a bit sideways. I don't think there are Irvine haters, there are folks who value you different things that Irvine doesn't offer. To each is their own. Just as IHO loves his 3-car garage, I love a big yard.
 
[quote author="graphrix" date=1248846161][quote author="QHBruin" date=1248821078]As for graphrix. As one of the moderators on here, you really should care enough to listen to the conference call. </blockquote>


It's not that I didn't care as so much as I didn't have the time. I have a lot going on these days that are a much higher priority than taking the time to listen to a conference call. In fact, I didn't get around to having dinner until almost 9pm last night, and the need to consume food superseded the desire to listen to the call. As I stated before, I respected the IHBers who live or want to live in Irvine by not taking time away from them to be able to ask the questions they wanted to ask. I felt it was more important to those who live or want to live in Irvine, which I would have thought people would have thought that was a respectful thing to do... but maybe I am wrong. And, a big huge thanks to SoCal78 for transcribing the call. Thanks to her I have been able to read the entire call.



<blockquote>I find it odd why you would choose to moderate the Irvinehousingblog when you clearly ?hate? Irvine and would not envision yourself here.</blockquote>


I find it funny, that people think I "hate" Irvine. Yes, I am very critical of their products, and even the clusterf*ck feeling I get when I am in that maze of village called Woodbury, but I have also said many positive things about Irvine. In my rant about what I would ask TIC, I mentioned how BK designed some of the finest products that Irvine has to offer. I have also commented on I how I think the overall master plan of Irvine is probably the best suburban plan in the world. It is well known that the impact of negative information outweighs the positive information, so when people label me as biased (which I admit I am), they are hypocritical in their own selective bias in choosing to never see the positive comments. As Cayci stated, Orchard Hills is a possibility if the timing is right, the product is right, and the price is right. People seem to have also forgotten that OH has been on my radar for several years now. Again, people tend to only see the negative. N. Tustin has the type of product I want now, and will in the future when prices have come down in the future and when we are ready. Will OH have the same? I dunno, but I am not going to get my hopes up for something that may never happen.



<blockquote>By the way, it also detracts from the blog when the moderators start a post with ?I don?t know what crawled up your ass and died.? I?d think they?d be more, uh, ?moderate? and less reactionary. (Although it does make for more entertaining reading)</blockquote>


I agree, but tkaratz has been quite adversarial of late, and he also went off on a <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5760/#119360">tangent in the call transcript thread</a>. Plus, he has been around for a while, and I would hope he would make light of that comment and maybe even dish one back. For every one reactionary moderation I have, there are a hundred "moderate" moderations I have. Many of which go on behind the scenes that no one ever sees, or even notices. And... for the record, IR, nor IHB, nor CR have never called a bottom in prices... ever.



Again, for those who label me an "Irvine hater" and say that I am biased, stop and think or read more of my posts. You are hypocritically and guilty of the same thing by stating that. If the negative is all you want to see, and it appears to be the case, then that is all you will see. It's pretty sad if that is the case.</blockquote>


Well put graphrix, I think you nailed it right on the head. I hadn't noticed it before, but as one of the few pro-Irvine people, I do filter out all the positive comments and focus on the negatives since those are what grate me the most.



However, I still feel that there is an overwhelming negative bias on the blog that should be addressed. There is no place for intelligent discussion when one side consistently sides with each other in berating the other side's arguments. This mob mentality effect kills discussion and the free flow of ideas. I mean, take a look at this site, how many "bulls" are there that post? If we did a count of the top 10 posters here, how many bears would be on that list? I'd guess all 10, maybe 9.
 
[quote author="QHBruin" date=1248905913]Well put graphrix, I think you nailed it right on the head. I hadn't noticed it before, but as one of the few pro-Irvine people, I do filter out all the positive comments and focus on the negatives since those are what grate me the most.



However, I still feel that there is an overwhelming negative bias on the blog that should be addressed. There is no place for intelligent discussion when one side consistently sides with each other in berating the other side's arguments. This mob mentality effect kills discussion and the free flow of ideas. I mean, take a look at this site, how many "bulls" are there that post? If we did a count of the top 10 posters here, how many bears would be on that list? I'd guess all 10, maybe 9.</blockquote>


Color me really confused. I don't recall seeing anything that promised "fair and balanced" discussion. This is an opinion site, no? I don't recall anyone saying that you were not entitled to your opinion, and I don't understand why anyone who disagrees with your take would not be entitled to their opinion. If the negative comments grate on you, stop letting them. You are the only person who can control your emotions, and you are giving other (anonymous!) people an awful lot of power over you if their comments annoy you. Life is too short for that. If you like Irvine, trust your judgment on that, but also understand that your preferences and priorities are not the same for all people, such that their judgment will bring them to a different conclusion. It's the same with cars or clothing, or any other good. By the same token, just because someone can see shortcomings in Irvine does not mean they are a "hater." One can objectively see the shortcomings in something, but find other qualities that outweigh or are more important than the negatives.
 
[quote author="QHBruin" date=1248905913]

However, I still feel that there is an overwhelming negative bias on the blog that should be addressed. There is no place for intelligent discussion when one side consistently sides with each other in berating the other side's arguments. This mob mentality effect kills discussion and the free flow of ideas. I mean, take a look at this site, how many "bulls" are there that post? If we did a count of the top 10 posters here, how many bears would be on that list? I'd guess all 10, maybe 9.</blockquote>


Some are secretly flippers who have disguised themselves as bears to hang out here. There's nothing to flip if the property prices stay high. Gotta drop before it'd go back up again.



<img src="http://www.japanforum.com/gallery/data/2/medium/harajuku-fashion-11-17-07-11.jpg" alt="" />
 
<blockquote>can someone ask him about Agran role in the Great Park. How does Agran, former mayor of Irvine become chairman of the Great Park? </blockquote>


The Orange County Great Park board members voted on a chairman from the nine member that are on the Great Park board, and they voted for Larry Agran (8 to 1, or 7 to 2, I believe). Larry Agran is currently one of the five Irvine city council members. All five city council members are on the Orange County Great Park board. The additional four board members were appointed by the Irvine city council members (and, of course, the city council members were voted in by Irvine residents).



Also, the Irvine Company has no connection with the Great Park development. The Great Park land is owned by the City of Irvine and Lennar. But ownership of the Great Park land is not joint. Irvine owns and is developing the public portion. Lennar owns the private portion and has started some development for commercial and educational in the western portion of their land.



Lennar had originally planned to start with high-end homes on the eastern portion of their Great Park land. I am guessing that these were planned to be the large, single-family homes with three-car garages that some of you in this thread have shown an interest in. However, my guess is that the price for these homes was planned to be larger than what many of you would be willing to pay.



Tentative Lennar housing development schedule and pricing for the Great Park: <pre class="code">http://www.sweetorangehousing.com/2009/07/14/suggestion-start-great-park-residential-development-with-smaller-more-affordable-housing-options</pre> But don?t put too much stock in this schedule and prices; I expect changes when Lennar gives its next update. However, there is no date set that I know of for the next update.



<blockquote>Who is the genius namer? ? ?El Toro stone? for torn up airport runway concrete at the Great Park</blockquote>


I believe that it was the Great Park Design Studio (Ken Smith and team).
 
[quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1248907588][quote author="QHBruin" date=1248905913]Well put graphrix, I think you nailed it right on the head. I hadn't noticed it before, but as one of the few pro-Irvine people, I do filter out all the positive comments and focus on the negatives since those are what grate me the most.



However, I still feel that there is an overwhelming negative bias on the blog that should be addressed. There is no place for intelligent discussion when one side consistently sides with each other in berating the other side's arguments. This mob mentality effect kills discussion and the free flow of ideas. I mean, take a look at this site, how many "bulls" are there that post? If we did a count of the top 10 posters here, how many bears would be on that list? I'd guess all 10, maybe 9.</blockquote>


Color me really confused. I don't recall seeing anything that promised "fair and balanced" discussion. This is an opinion site, no? I don't recall anyone saying that you were not entitled to your opinion, and I don't understand why anyone who disagrees with your take would not be entitled to their opinion. If the negative comments grate on you, stop letting them. You are the only person who can control your emotions, and you are giving other (anonymous!) people an awful lot of power over you if their comments annoy you. Life is too short for that. If you like Irvine, trust your judgment on that, but also understand that your preferences and priorities are not the same for all people, such that their judgment will bring them to a different conclusion. It's the same with cars or clothing, or any other good. By the same token, just because someone can see shortcomings in Irvine does not mean they are a "hater." One can objectively see the shortcomings in something, but find other qualities that outweigh or are more important than the negatives.</blockquote>


Thanks for the sermon, but I don't see how providing life advice on controlling emotions and being the master of your own destiny is relevant to the poster's point. But, as a matter of fact, the top ten posters on this site should take your advice into consideration. This site was started out of spite and has served as a negative emotional outlet for individuals that had trouble dealing with people trying to live the "California dream". Granted, those people were very irresponsible and dug their own grave, but the level of reveling in the troubles of others by most of the top users on this site is very anti-social and very unhealthy. I'm not asking for a fair and balanced site, but the level of schadenfreude, favoritism and lack of reality (I assume because most of you are laid off) have really made this site irrelevant to most people in the industry. There was a time where I found this forum informative and entertaining, now it's not worth attempting to filter through the forums to find helpful information or even bother reading replies to my posts.



I've noticed that the top posters are the worst kind of bears and I've come to the conclusion that's just who they are as people. They don't like seeing people purchasing homes in general regardless of the financial situation. What's even worse is that the only time that i've seen top posters on this site bull-ish on housing is when one of their fellow realtor cronies lists a property. All of a sudden, when the low end bottomed, the brilliant realtors / IHB subscribers start, according to regular posters, pricing their homes correctly while refusing to acknowledge that price depreciation in the low end has ceased. Even Irvine Renter started up his own real estate brokerage firm and yet the top posters are afraid to even acknowledge that prices may have even stablizied lest they be kicked out of their internet based club.
 
[quote author="tkaratz" date=1249865709][quote author="EvaLSeraphim" date=1248907588][quote author="QHBruin" date=1248905913]Well put graphrix, I think you nailed it right on the head. I hadn't noticed it before, but as one of the few pro-Irvine people, I do filter out all the positive comments and focus on the negatives since those are what grate me the most.



However, I still feel that there is an overwhelming negative bias on the blog that should be addressed. There is no place for intelligent discussion when one side consistently sides with each other in berating the other side's arguments. This mob mentality effect kills discussion and the free flow of ideas. I mean, take a look at this site, how many "bulls" are there that post? If we did a count of the top 10 posters here, how many bears would be on that list? I'd guess all 10, maybe 9.</blockquote>


Color me really confused. I don't recall seeing anything that promised "fair and balanced" discussion. This is an opinion site, no? I don't recall anyone saying that you were not entitled to your opinion, and I don't understand why anyone who disagrees with your take would not be entitled to their opinion. If the negative comments grate on you, stop letting them. You are the only person who can control your emotions, and you are giving other (anonymous!) people an awful lot of power over you if their comments annoy you. Life is too short for that. If you like Irvine, trust your judgment on that, but also understand that your preferences and priorities are not the same for all people, such that their judgment will bring them to a different conclusion. It's the same with cars or clothing, or any other good. By the same token, just because someone can see shortcomings in Irvine does not mean they are a "hater." One can objectively see the shortcomings in something, but find other qualities that outweigh or are more important than the negatives.</blockquote>


Thanks for the sermon, but I don't see how providing life advice on controlling emotions and being the master of your own destiny is relevant to the poster's point. But, as a matter of fact, the top ten posters on this site should take your advice into consideration. This site was started out of spite and has served as a negative emotional outlet for individuals that had trouble dealing with people trying to live the "California dream". Granted, those people were very irresponsible and dug their own grave, but the level of reveling in the troubles of others by most of the top users on this site is very anti-social and very unhealthy. I'm not asking for a fair and balanced site, but the level of schadenfreude, favoritism and lack of reality (I assume because most of you are laid off) have really made this site irrelevant to most people in the industry. There was a time where I found this forum informative and entertaining, now it's not worth attempting to filter through the forums to find helpful information or even bother reading replies to my posts.



I've noticed that the top posters are the worst kind of bears and I've come to the conclusion that's just who they are as people. They don't like seeing people purchasing homes in general regardless of the financial situation. What's even worse is that the only time that i've seen top posters on this site bull-ish on housing is when one of their fellow realtor cronies lists a property. All of a sudden, when the low end bottomed, the brilliant realtors / IHB subscribers start, according to regular posters, pricing their homes correctly while refusing to acknowledge that price depreciation in the low end has ceased. Even Irvine Renter started up his own real estate brokerage firm and yet the top posters are afraid to even acknowledge that prices may have even stablizied lest they be kicked out of their internet based club.</blockquote>
I'll go ahead and respond as I am one of those top 10 posters you mention. Even the more bearish folks don't chastise and even congratulate those folks that have purchased a property recently so long as they have done that with their eyes wide open and done it for other than financial reasons. Maybe some of the online persona of the bears seem harsh but that is just because they are passionate about their beliefs. Trust me, if you ever met any of them in real life you'll find that they are great people.
 
[quote author="hyen10" date=1250467493]When the Great Park and housing around it is completed, how many units will their be?</blockquote>


[del]You're lazy.[/del] Good morning, <a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/forums/viewthread/5885/">this thread</a> contains a link to a recent OCR article about the Great Park. Additionally, if you use the "search" function in the upper right-hand corner or Google, more information is available.
 
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