Villages of Columbus - Columbus Square - Camden Place

NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
>>But I think all these builders really overshot their expectations by thinking everyone would be willing to pay $600 for just HOA and Mello-Roos (that excludes the standard property tax).

Me too.
 
CM,

In order to escape CFDs altogether you have to go to much older home, which is going to have maintenance issue that new homes don't. Not a dollar for dollar savings.

The fundamental reason that people with young kids like new communities is that everyone has young kids. Its an entirely different environment that is hard to put a dollar price on. Being able to round up a few friends and walk to a park 2 minutes away is completely impossible in circa 1980's or 70's communities. In my neighborhood in Mission Viejo, its all teenagers no young kids. We throw the kids in the van and drive them to meet friends about 10 minutes away. Its just not the same.

And remember "Judge not...."
 
jwbrown77,

I live in a great old apartment in Costa Mesa with a huge patio and $600 is 60% of my rent! You are dead-on about the builders overshooting. During the bubble, when money was free, they just assumed that those costs could be absorbed without notice. In fact, money costs money and $600/mo is a lot of money.

Justlooking, I do understand that, but I also think that the value for the dollar is dramatically skewed. In Eastside Costa Mesa, the kids rule, as they do in many old neighborhoods in Mission Viejo, where friends with young kids live. I grew up in the Port streets of Newport, where we never had to get rides anywhere, had greenbelts, neighborhhod schools, and neighborhood pools. Many older neighborhoods are very kid-friendly.

HOAs approaching $400/month (Clarendon) means $4800/year, far more than most older single family homes' annual maintenance.

Of course, the neighborhood aesthethics and amenities are important, but too much of the burden was shifted from the developer to the buyer in terms of these costs, it seems.

My girlfriend is the new home type, so I really do understand that point of view! I just can't justify those expenses personally.
 
Well said JustLooking. We did look for a house in areas that didn't have CFDs and although we could afford more in the price of the home we couldn't find a house that was move-in ready, at least in the areas we wanted to be. I was one of those that said I would never move into an area with mello roos but I am really excited about the neighborhood we are moving into... there are advantages (NEW) and disadvantages (TAXES) about it! The bottom line is everyone has their own opinion on whether it is good for them or not and I won't sit here and say what my family I chooses to do is good for everyone!
 
I think we'd all like a newer home. The assumption being less maintenance, better energy efficiency, more modern amenities.

But the premium for buying new (or newer) should be rolled into the cost, not into seemingly punitive auxiliary charges.

If the individual buyer decides that the "new" isn't worth the price premium, that's fine.
 
ocbuyer:

Don't you have to pay to have flooring installed and stuff though? I mean technically a new place isn't "move in ready," correct?

The best medium would probably be to try to buy something built a few years ago.
 
"In Eastside Costa Mesa, the kids rule, as they do in many old neighborhoods in Mission Viejo, where friends with young kids live. I grew up in the Port streets of Newport, where we never had to get rides anywhere, had greenbelts, neighborhhod schools, and neighborhood pools. Many older neighborhoods are very kid-friendly."

I grew up in these areas also and today both East Side Costa Mesa and the Port Streets in Newport are well over 1million dollars for anything doesn't need a lot of work done. If you are lucky enough to find a good place in East Side which is move in ready then it's probably 1200 sq ft... and we wanted more. Again, I think it is all about ones personal needs, wants and financial situation.
 
CM_Dude,

You think if you have your own yard/pool you don't have to pay tax or upkeep costs? Do you know how much pool maintenance costs? Are you a renter?
 
jwbrown77:

Yes, we did have to put those items in but we elected to go with the standard stuff and stay with it for 2-3 years. We really didn't upgrade many things in the house. We forced ourselves to realize, that although we would LOVE to get premium flooring and upgraded this and that, we are moving into a new home which is a huge upgrade from where were are coming from. Keeping that mindset has been tough, especially for the wife, but we did it.
 
Same here, understood with Mello roos and high HOA's and property taxes, however my preference was a new house, albeit an affordable one. Since the principal isn't as high as it has been in the past years, I figure I could bite the bullet and pay the high fees to be in a new home. You get what you pay for.

However, I have heard some horror stories about Lennar and some of their new homes, but I'm thinking that goes with any builder.

To each their own I guess.
 
JP, Definitely! A pool has maintenance and utility costs, and gardeners cost money as well. Having rented a large house built in the 1950s on a large lot for a year, I do know what it takes to keep it up, but remember, we're talking about dues/taxes/fees approaching $1000/mo, which is simply outrageous to me. I'm not knocking new homes, and I'm sure to annoy folks here who ARE paying these auxiliary costs, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

I am having this same debate with my girlfriend, which is one of the reasons I posted.

I can live with a house payment and property taxes, but I have a big problem handing over a large chunk of my hard-earned money to someone else to spend that I have virtually no control over.

As for Eastside Costa Mesa and Port streets - the appreciation has been phenomenal. We bought on Port Weybridge for $157k in 1979 and they are worth well over a million for the fixer-uppers now. Homes that sold in Eastside Costa Mesa for $250 not lterribly ong ago go for $900k now. Costa Mesa prices will come down, though. So will Mission Viejo.

I guess my rambling point is - a $424k townhome is NOT a $424k townhome when you are paying an additional $1000/mo in dues/taxes/fees. A decently constructed SFR will not require $4800/year in maintenance.

These costs have become far too large as a percentage of a family's housing costs, and it bothers me that people are so willing to accept them.

All of that aside - each and every person decides what they want to spend and what is valuable to them. My opinion is mine alone, and I appreciate the very valid points you are making!
 
Does anyone concern about the underground water and soil condition? The disclosure states that the soil and groundwater are continimated in some of the areas. If you look at the key map, it is very close to phases 8, 9, and 10. Also, these phases are so close to the Village of Hope (homeless shelter). The distance is less than 0.5 miles. These 2 big reasons stop me to buy a house there. I'm worried about the resell value in future. Does anyone have the same concern as me?
 
I had that same concern before walking into VOC, however I got in touch with a few engineering connections and spoke to one of the guys at the City of Tustin, and they said they started cleanup of the entire area back in 1995, have completely dug up all the old soil and replaced it with new soil since then, and have installed monitoring devices within to make sure of any contaminants/leaks/etc. The Navy was in charge of clean up, and numerous engineering/environmental firms have approved the land to be built on.
 
The ground water level is approx. from 6ft to 25ft below ground. I don't know if the builder would spend that much money to excavate 25ft deep soil. I was attracted by the floor plans and price too. It's so bad there is no other site with the same plans and prices in the City of Irvine.
 
toto, the Navy did the cleanup, not the builder. The builder cannot even start to build until cleanup was completed.
 
CM_Dude, the only additional cost is the Mello Roos. A SFR is usually more expensive than a condo so the property tax is even higher. And mowing the lawn, watering the lawn, watering the trees, trimming the trees, fixing the roof, etc, costs a lot more than the HOA fee, believe me, or you can ask any homeowner.
 
Congrats Shooby!

I purchased a neighborhood 10 residence 3, also on the greenbelt. Looks like we will be neighbors. I am a bit irked that they didn't let me reduce my purchase price like they did for you. However, i'm still very happy with my purchase. I'm using my incentives to buy down my rate and pre-pay 2 years of HOA. I'm going with the cheap carpet and tiles but am adding extra padding under the carpet.

I agree that UAMC is slow as heck right now and impossible to get a hold of, but I've been reassured that the loan approval deadline would be met. when you do get a hold of them, they are very polite and helpful. Supposedly Lennar signed 30 purchase agreements during the week of the sale so UAMC is swamped with loan applications.

Regarding the ground water comment, I did my homework when it came to Camden place. Being a technical guy and extremely attentive to detail, I researched the SNA flight paths, FEMA flood map, earthquake liquification map, and even read all related Navy reports regarding the cleanup of waste/ground water and such (VERY BORING!). All plumes and areas of concern have been cleaned and have been deemed "NFA" - "No further action required". In fact, most of the plumes and areas of concern are not within the boundaries of Camden Place. UST 268 was the only area that concerned me. I don't plan on growing fruits/vegetables on my land nor do I plan on drinking from a well dug deeper than 6ft underground, so I've come to the personal decision that i'm okay with the level of risk involved.

Here are some important links I found during my research. They may be of interest to any Camden residents or prospective residents.

Air Traffic Map (no planes fly directly over Camden):

http://www4.passur.com/sna.html

Environmental Reports:

http://www.tustinlegacy.com/images/Tustin/pdfs/eis_eir_vol1/vol1_ch3_11.pdf

http://www.tustinlegacy.com/images/Tustin/articles/42/1-12-05RABmap.pdf

http://www.envirostor.dtsc.ca.gov/public/profile_report.asp?global_id=30970002&site_id=2004589

Earthquake Map (Liquefication):

http://gmw.consrv.ca.gov/shmp/MapProcessor.asp?MapNavAction=IMapRefresh&Action=IMap&Location=SoCal&FClass=City&FID=Irvine&Liq=true&Land=true&Bore=false&Road=true&City=false&x1=417909.4815213265&y1=3734611.3332448946&x2=432110.89183867344&y2=3722776.8246471053

FEMA Flood Map:

https://hazards.fema.gov/femaportal/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd44PMATJmMUbxBub6keiijjCBXw98nNT9YOAEpHmQAlDIz_9qJzU9MTkSv1gfW_9AP2C3NCIcm9HRwDVE8eE/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lKSi9vQXd3QUFNWWdBQ0VJUWhDRUVJaEZLQSEvNEZHZ2RZbktKMEZSb1hmckNIZGgvN18wXzEyTi84My9zYS52aWV3ZXIuc3VibWl0TWFw#7_0_12N

Definitions of acronyms I didn't understand:

VOC - Volatile organic compounds, petroleum substances used as the vehicles for many printing inks.

PAH - polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbon. PAHs are the most common smaller and more volatile compounds found in oil.

PCB - Polychlorinated biphenyl, a synthetic, organic chemical once widely used in electrical equipment, specialized hydraulic systems, heat transfer systems, and other industrial products. Highly toxic and a potent carcinogen. Any hazardous wastes that contain more than 50 parts per million of PCBs are subject to regulation under the Toxic Substances Control Act.

TCE - Trichloroethene or trichloroethylene. A contaminant that is a component of cleaning solvents. TCE is a commonly found contaminant at Air Force bases resulting from the cleaning of aircraft and equipment.

NFA - No Further Action
 
I disagree jp.

My father and I maintained a third acre when I was a teenager. It certainly didn't cost us no $350 a month.

If you want to *hire* someone to do it all for you, perhaps.
 
With the mortgage rates as unstable as they are right now, are you guys looking into fixed rates or adjustable rates? I'm starting to hear there will be even more rate cuts after this. Thanks myfirsthome, same to you.
 
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