Unreal: YES on 2 and NO on 4

[bltserv_IHB]

Ladies and gentlemen...we live in one "F-UP" world!

Thank god Prop 8 passed...at least there is a morsel of sanity left.

Personally I find the fact that Proposition 4 was voted down to be very upsetting. We live in a state where a 15 year old girl can decide to have an abortion without parental consent, but can't have her teeth cleaned without parental consent. Where is the logic in that?

Very few 15 year-old girls would get the crap beaten out of them if their teeth needed cleaning.

Getting teeth cleaned rarely results in the loss of human life.

Winex

I am going to guess you dont have kids. If you have a loving realtionship with communication.

These silly laws are meaningless. But for the poor child that will get beaten when her father finds she is pregnant. And he may have impregnated her ? Lets keep a womans choice just that.

Her choice. And in case you didnt notice. A girl of child bearing age is a woman.

Typical conservative. Save the child but let the family starve and the girl be beaten.

Never mind the baby has no chance at a real life. Abortion is not pretty. But it should not be any affair of the state. If your a REAL parent you never need to worry. These laws only hurt the poor and the abused.

 

[Hormiguero_IHB]

Prop 8 is a victory for no one, and I can only hope that the tax status of many of the religious groups involved gets a hard look in the next administration.

But there's a reason that people will still pay 400 bucks a square foot to live on west la's westside, the nicer parts of san mateo county, san francisco, monterey county, marin county, etc - living in a place where bigots are a minority is truly priceless. Once again, the least educated parts of CA (and the same parts that voted for Bush in 2004) displayed their political culture of superstition and ignorance for the world to witness.

Throw all the money you want at a school like UCI, Saddleback will still dominate the sterile intellectual wasteland that is OC.

 

[WINEX_IHB]

Ladies and gentlemen...we live in one "F-UP" world!

Thank god Prop 8 passed...at least there is a morsel of sanity left.

Personally I find the fact that Proposition 4 was voted down to be very upsetting. We live in a state where a 15 year old girl can decide to have an abortion without parental consent, but can't have her teeth cleaned without parental consent. Where is the logic in that?

Very few 15 year-old girls would get the crap beaten out of them if their teeth needed cleaning.

Getting teeth cleaned rarely results in the loss of human life.

Winex

I am going to guess you dont have kids. If you have a loving realtionship with communication.

These silly laws are meaningless. But for the poor child that will get beaten when her father finds she is pregnant. And he may have impregnated her ? Lets keep a womans choice just that.

Her choice. And in case you didnt notice. A girl of child bearing age is a woman.

Typical conservative. Save the child but let the family starve and the girl be beaten.

Never mind the baby has no chance at a real life. Abortion is not pretty. But it should not be any affair of the state. If your a REAL parent you never need to worry. These laws only hurt the poor and the abused.

BLTSERV, I am going to guess that you still don't realize what a disgusting piece of shit you are. If you did realize, you would have done the right thing a long time ago.

 

[Nude_IHB]

Ladies and gentlemen...we live in one "F-UP" world!

Thank god Prop 8 passed...at least there is a morsel of sanity left.

Personally I find the fact that Proposition 4 was voted down to be very upsetting. We live in a state where a 15 year old girl can decide to have an abortion without parental consent, but can't have her teeth cleaned without parental consent. Where is the logic in that?

Winex, may I assume from your comments that it is not physically possible for you to be impregnated by your father?

Please Eva. I'm sure we all know that abortion is a form of birth control for the irresponsible. Bringing up incest is nothing but a diversion tactic.

Why is it a diversion? Because the instances of it happening are so low, maybe? Higher or lower than the chances of a 15-year old girl getting pregnant (much less paying for and scheduling an abortion) without attentive parents noticing something is amiss?

Is abortion used as a means of avoiding unwanted children? You bet. But the number of girls between 15 and 17 that will secretly avail themselves of this new law and who also have an otherwise normal, happy homelife is so small as to be pointless to tabulate.

I don't agree with Roe Vs. Wade for legal reasons, I don't buy the argument that government can't set limits on what people can and can't do with their bodies, and I think that abortion is a horrible form of birth control. That being said, I am equally horrified by babies being left in dumpsters, or shallow graves, or underage girls being kicked out by intolerant "parents", or even dying from complications after a back-alley abortion.

As a conservative, I understand the argument that parents should have the right to know what their children are being taught, what medical procedures are being performed on them, and who is helping to inform their world view. But that view assumes that the parents in question are actually teaching their children truth/facts and not superstition, that they aren't harming their children via direct action or withholding of medical care, and that they aren't handing down their own prejudices or social biases. As a human being, I absolutely KNOW that there are parents that do not bother to help with homework or even basic life lessons, who abuse and molest their children, and/or who indoctrinate them to hate. For those children, we need to teach them what their parents are NOT teaching them, and try to minimize the impact of their mistakes born of inexperience, ignorance, misunderstanding, or selfishness. We can't avoid teaching them about sex and contraception and then expect them to practice responsible sex, only to penalize them for their actions when they have consequences. To that end, I support any law that avoids a larger cost to society and it's taxpayers.

 

[bltserv_IHB]

Ladies and gentlemen...we live in one "F-UP" world!

Thank god Prop 8 passed...at least there is a morsel of sanity left.

Personally I find the fact that Proposition 4 was voted down to be very upsetting. We live in a state where a 15 year old girl can decide to have an abortion without parental consent, but can't have her teeth cleaned without parental consent. Where is the logic in that?

Very few 15 year-old girls would get the crap beaten out of them if their teeth needed cleaning.

Getting teeth cleaned rarely results in the loss of human life.

Winex

I am going to guess you dont have kids. If you have a loving realtionship with communication.

These silly laws are meaningless. But for the poor child that will get beaten when her father finds she is pregnant. And he may have impregnated her ? Lets keep a womans choice just that.

Her choice. And in case you didnt notice. A girl of child bearing age is a woman.

Typical conservative. Save the child but let the family starve and the girl be beaten.

Never mind the baby has no chance at a real life. Abortion is not pretty. But it should not be any affair of the state. If your a REAL parent you never need to worry. These laws only hurt the poor and the abused.

BLTSERV, I am going to guess that you still don't realize what a disgusting piece of shit you are. If you did realize, you would have done the right thing a long time ago.

So nice to discuss this subject with you Winex. Your level of intellect and expression are far above my ability.

Back to your cave.

 

[WINEX_IHB]

Ladies and gentlemen...we live in one "F-UP" world!

Thank god Prop 8 passed...at least there is a morsel of sanity left.

Personally I find the fact that Proposition 4 was voted down to be very upsetting. We live in a state where a 15 year old girl can decide to have an abortion without parental consent, but can't have her teeth cleaned without parental consent. Where is the logic in that?

Winex, may I assume from your comments that it is not physically possible for you to be impregnated by your father?

Please Eva. I'm sure we all know that abortion is a form of birth control for the irresponsible. Bringing up incest is nothing but a diversion tactic.

Why is it a diversion? Because the instances of it happening are so low, maybe? Higher or lower than the chances of a 15-year old girl getting pregnant (much less paying for and scheduling an abortion) without attentive parents noticing something is amiss?

Is abortion used as a means of avoiding unwanted children? You bet. But the number of girls between 15 and 17 that will secretly avail themselves of this new law and who also have an otherwise normal, happy homelife is so small as to be pointless to tabulate.

I don't agree with Roe Vs. Wade for legal reasons, I don't buy the argument that government can't set limits on what people can and can't do with their bodies, and I think that abortion is a horrible form of birth control. That being said, I am equally horrified by babies being left in dumpsters, or shallow graves, or underage girls being kicked out by intolerant "parents", or even dying from complications after a back-alley abortion.

As a conservative, I understand the argument that parents should have the right to know what their children are being taught, what medical procedures are being performed on them, and who is helping to inform their world view. But that view assumes that the parents in question are actually teaching their children truth/facts and not superstition, that they aren't harming their children via direct action or withholding of medical care, and that they aren't handing down their own prejudices or social biases. As a human being, I absolutely KNOW that there are parents that do not bother to help with homework or even basic life lessons, who abuse and molest their children, and/or who indoctrinate them to hate. For those children, we need to teach them what their parents are NOT teaching them, and try to minimize the impact of their mistakes born of inexperience, ignorance, misunderstanding, or selfishness. We can't avoid teaching them about sex and contraception and then expect them to practice responsible sex, only to penalize them for their actions when they have consequences. To that end, I support any law that avoids a larger cost to society and it's taxpayers.

I don't know about the social circles that you grew up, but I can speak about the ones I grew up in. When I was that age, I knew quite a few girls who got pregnant as teenagers. There wasn't a single case that involved incestuous rape. There was always a boyfriend who was "responsible" for the pregnancy. Some had their babies, others got abortions because "they were afraid their parents would kill them." Of course, that is teen-speak for a fear of having their parents exert more parental control that was lacking from their lives.

The imagery of a teenage victim of incestuous rape who can't get parental consent for an abortion is nothing but an attempt at having emotions win out over logic. If an adult is sick enough to rape his underage daughter, the last thing he would want is for a resulting pregnancy to become public knowledge. Once that happens, he is open to arrest for rape.

Your mention of babies left in dumpsters or shallow graves is also an attempt to have emotion rule out over logic. Being disposed of with "other medical waste" is the sure outcome of an abortion.

The fact is that a desperate teen mother-to-be in search of help can go to any Catholic church and she will be helped regardless of her religious affiliation.

 

[WINEX_IHB]

So nice to discuss this subject with you Winex. Your level of intellect and expression are far above my ability.

Back to your cave.

I'll put this in terms that even a dumbshit like you MIGHT be able to understand. You shouldn't expect someone to act in a civil manner towards you after you accuse them of being a KKK member.

 

[bltserv_IHB]

So nice to discuss this subject with you Winex. Your level of intellect and expression are far above my ability.

Back to your cave.

I'll put this in terms that even a dumbshit like you MIGHT be able to understand. You shouldn't expect someone to act in a civil manner towards you after you accuse them of being a KKK member.

I mention a rope and a sheet and you turn to jello. For such a big man you sure have thin skin. Just stop the cussing please. This board can do without your potty mouth.

You dont have kids do you ? You wouldn`t talk that way if you did.

 

[IrvineRenter_IHB]

Ladies and gentlemen...we live in one "F-UP" world!

Thank god Prop 8 passed...at least there is a morsel of sanity left.

Personally I find the fact that Proposition 4 was voted down to be very upsetting. We live in a state where a 15 year old girl can decide to have an abortion without parental consent, but can't have her teeth cleaned without parental consent. Where is the logic in that?

Very few 15 year-old girls would get the crap beaten out of them if their teeth needed cleaning.

Getting teeth cleaned rarely results in the loss of human life.

Winex

I am going to guess you dont have kids. If you have a loving realtionship with communication.

These silly laws are meaningless. But for the poor child that will get beaten when her father finds she is pregnant. And he may have impregnated her ? Lets keep a womans choice just that.

Her choice. And in case you didnt notice. A girl of child bearing age is a woman.

Typical conservative. Save the child but let the family starve and the girl be beaten.

Never mind the baby has no chance at a real life. Abortion is not pretty. But it should not be any affair of the state. If your a REAL parent you never need to worry. These laws only hurt the poor and the abused.

BLTSERV, I am going to guess that you still don't realize what a disgusting piece of shit you are. If you did realize, you would have done the right thing a long time ago.

No name calling or negative characterizations please. We can disagree about politics, and we can even get heated about it, but this crosses the line.

That goes for everyone.

 

[WINEX_IHB]

Ladies and gentlemen...we live in one "F-UP" world!

Thank god Prop 8 passed...at least there is a morsel of sanity left.

Personally I find the fact that Proposition 4 was voted down to be very upsetting. We live in a state where a 15 year old girl can decide to have an abortion without parental consent, but can't have her teeth cleaned without parental consent. Where is the logic in that?

Very few 15 year-old girls would get the crap beaten out of them if their teeth needed cleaning.

Getting teeth cleaned rarely results in the loss of human life.

Winex

I am going to guess you dont have kids. If you have a loving realtionship with communication.

These silly laws are meaningless. But for the poor child that will get beaten when her father finds she is pregnant. And he may have impregnated her ? Lets keep a womans choice just that.

Her choice. And in case you didnt notice. A girl of child bearing age is a woman.

Typical conservative. Save the child but let the family starve and the girl be beaten.

Never mind the baby has no chance at a real life. Abortion is not pretty. But it should not be any affair of the state. If your a REAL parent you never need to worry. These laws only hurt the poor and the abused.

BLTSERV, I am going to guess that you still don't realize what a disgusting piece of shit you are. If you did realize, you would have done the right thing a long time ago.

No name calling or negative characterizations please. We can disagree about politics, and we can even get heated about it, but this crosses the line.

That goes for everyone.

Is calling someone a KKK member acceptable around here?

 

[serious weapon_IHB]

Wahhh.

 

[Hormiguero_IHB]

The juvenile behavior and ad hominems are bad, but the endlessly nested russian-doll 7-in-1 postings are far more offensive.

 

[serious weapon_IHB]

It's like one ugly ass babushka.

 

[IrvineRenter_IHB]

BLTSERV, I am going to guess that you still don't realize what a disgusting piece of shit you are. If you did realize, you would have done the right thing a long time ago.

No name calling or negative characterizations please. We can disagree about politics, and we can even get heated about it, but this crosses the line.

That goes for everyone.

Is calling someone a KKK member acceptable around here?

Acceptable? I suppose that one is a judgment call. A ridiculous and stupid thing to say. Yes.

Everyone. Stop the name calling and negative characterizations, or I will close this thread and kill it.

 

[tmare_IHB]

I find the win for prop 2 AND prop 8 more unreal. Rights for chickens but not for people. There had to be a lot of people who voted yes on both. Crazy

 

[WINEX_IHB]

BLTSERV, I am going to guess that you still don't realize what a disgusting piece of shit you are. If you did realize, you would have done the right thing a long time ago.

No name calling or negative characterizations please. We can disagree about politics, and we can even get heated about it, but this crosses the line.

That goes for everyone.

Is calling someone a KKK member acceptable around here?

Acceptable? I suppose that one is a judgment call. A ridiculous and stupid thing to say. Yes.

Everyone. Stop the name calling and negative characterizations, or I will close this thread and kill it.

I'm just trying to get some clarity. The only thing I can assume from observation that the judgment call is based on who calls who what, not on what someone is called.

 

[irvine_home_owner_IHB]

Stop the name calling and negative characterizations, or I will close this thread and kill it.

IrvineRenter is a meanie!

Nerny nerny nerny!

 

[IrvineRenter_IHB]

BLTSERV, I am going to guess that you still don't realize what a disgusting piece of shit you are. If you did realize, you would have done the right thing a long time ago.

No name calling or negative characterizations please. We can disagree about politics, and we can even get heated about it, but this crosses the line.

That goes for everyone.

Is calling someone a KKK member acceptable around here?

Acceptable? I suppose that one is a judgment call. A ridiculous and stupid thing to say. Yes.

Everyone. Stop the name calling and negative characterizations, or I will close this thread and kill it.

I'm just trying to get some clarity. The only thing I can assume from observation that the judgment call is based on who calls who what, not on what someone is called.

Let's be clear. You called someone a piece of shit. That crosses the line. I don't want to spend my time trying to figure out where the line is, nor do I want to become part of the PC thought police bullshit movement. I want to read the forums and enjoy myself. I do not want to spend my time babysitting a bunch of adults behaving like juveniles. When I see something obvious, I am going to stop it. If it is not so obvious, I will probably let it go.

 

[irvinesinglemom_IHB]

The issue of abortion should ONLY be open to legal restriction by women. Men should have NO say, whatsoever, on this issue. Until such time as they can "get themselves pregnant" like so many girls and women have supposedly done over the centuries.

 

[EvaLSeraphim_IHB]

Let's be clear. You called someone a piece of shit. That crosses the line. I don't want to spend my time trying to figure out where the line is, nor do I want to become part of the PC thought police bullshit movement. I want to read the forums and enjoy myself. I do not want to spend my time babysitting a bunch of adults behaving like juveniles. When I see something obvious, I am going to stop it. If it is not so obvious, I will probably let it go.

Objectively, I think as a being that can type, we can conclude that BLT is not a "piece of shit." On the other hand, the Klan is alive and well and taking members, so it is possible, while not probable, for Winex to be a member of the Klan. I can understand why someone would not wish to be identified as a Klan member, but the response to that is "I am not a member of the KKK."

Ah, found the link.

So, ok Winex, one person, once, made a KKK reference. How many times have you been over the top? Lots.

I like it when you talk policy (I thanked your tax policy answer), but sometimes you come completely unglued and its unproductive.