U.S. real estate a bargain for Chinese

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<blockquote>

<strong>With U.S. home prices so depressed, the Chinese are coming</strong>



The Associated Press

updated 10:37 a.m. PT, Thurs., Feb. 12, 2009



BEIJING - Beijing lawyer Ying Guohua is heading to the United States on a shopping trip, looking not for designer clothes or jewelry, but for a $1 million home in New York City or Los Angeles.



He expects to get a bargain. Ying is part of a growing number of Chinese who are joining tours organized especially for investors who want to take advantage of slumping U.S. real estate prices amid a financial crisis.



"It's a great time to buy because of the financial crisis, and houses in large cities like New York and Los Angeles will definitely go up in a few years," Ying said. The home is an investment, but he's also planning long-term: He hopes his 5-year-old son might use it if he goes to college in the United States.



While China's ultra-rich have been buying property in the U.S. for years, the buying tours are new, made attractive by still-rising Chinese income levels and American real estate prices that have been falling for two and a half years.



More than 100 Chinese buyers have joined such tours since late 2008, according to Chen Hang, the China-born vice president of real estate at Fortune Group. The Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, company shows foreclosed commercial property to Chinese buyers.



"The Chinese are going to seize the opportunity to take advantage of some great deals," Chen said.



Ying, the Beijing lawyer, is one of 40 investors going to New York, California, Boston and Las Vegas on a Feb. 24-March 6 tour organized by Beijing-based SouFun Holdings Ltd., a real estate Web site. SouFun plans to show participants foreclosed properties priced at $300,000 to $800,000.



"We never thought these tours would garner such interest, but we've had an overwhelming response," said SouFun CEO Richard Dai. "Before, we heard of Chinese or Hong Kong movie stars buying homes in the U.S., and now more and more Chinese can afford to have the same."





The home-buying opportunities mirror a larger trend. Cash-rich Chinese companies are looking to buy resources made suddenly cheaper by the downturn or companies suffering under the global debt meltdown. On Thursday, the Aluminum Corp. of China, also known as Chinalco and the world's leading aluminum producer, invested $19.5 billion in debt-burdened global miner Rio Tinto Group ? China's biggest overseas investment to date.



Because the authoritarian government has imposed controls limiting China's exposure to international capital flows, the country has largely avoided the worst of the global financial crisis. Meanwhile, high-level incomes have continued to rise. China had the world's fifth-largest population of millionaires in 2008 with 391,000, up 20 percent from the previous year, according to Boston Consulting Group.



But Chinese with money in the bank have few good investment options at home. Real estate prices have cooled and stock prices peaked in October 2007 after a two-year boom that saw shares rise six-fold in value. After years in which foreign money poured into China to take advantage of the hot economy, economists estimate that tens of billions of dollars began leaving the country in the last three months of 2008 as Chinese investors began bargain-hunting.





Chinese buyers are looking at both commercial property and homes to rent out or use on business trips. And the U.S. has plenty of unsold homes to offer ? 3.67 million as of the end of December, according to the National Association of Realtors.



Many buyers are unfamiliar with U.S. markets, so they focus on well-known ethnic Chinese neighborhoods, according to John Wu, president of the Chinese American Real Estate Professionals Association in San Gabriel, Calif.



Lion's Property Development Group in New York City organizes Chinese groups to visit New York homes. The company also treats visitors to Broadway shows and famous restaurants in hopes that they will take to the city and buy a $1 million to $2.5 million home.



Trips are pricey. Ying, the lawyer, paid $2,200 ? nearly the equivalent of the annual income for many Chinese ? plus airfare.



Participants in a 10-day January tour organized by Beijing-based Environment International Travel Agency had to show proof of an annual income of at least $30,000 and that they owned a car and property in China.



A real estate developer from the southern city of Changsha said he spent $3,500 for the 10-day trip to view $500,000 to $1 million homes, and it worked.



He found a house in California's Silicon Valley that he planned to buy for his 20-year-old daughter, a university student in Boston who plans on attending graduate school in the Bay area.





"My daughter's monthly rent is $1,000, so it makes sense to buy a place, because I'm getting a return rather than throwing money away," said the developer. He would talk on condition that he be identified only by his surname, Zeng.



The price of the house, he said, was $1 million, compared with $1.3 million before the crisis in early 2007.



"The price is low now, but it's in a good neighborhood with breathtaking views, so it will definitely appreciate," he said.



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[quote author="asianinvasian" date=1234523708]<blockquote>



"My daughter's monthly rent is $1,000, so it makes sense to buy a place, because I'm getting a return rather than throwing money away," said the developer. He would talk on condition that he be identified only by his surname, Zeng.



The price of the house, he said, was $1 million, compared with $1.3 million before the crisis in early 2007.



"The price is low now, but it's in a good neighborhood with breathtaking views, so it will definitely appreciate," he said.



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Buying your daughter a 1 million dollar homes so she doesn't have to pY $1,000/MONTH in rent? WTF
 
<em>More than 100 Chinese buyers have joined such tours since late 2008, according to Chen Hang, the China-born vice president of real estate at Fortune Group. The Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, company shows foreclosed commercial property to Chinese buyers.



A real estate developer from the southern city of Changsha said he spent $3,500 for the 10-day trip to view $500,000 to $1 million homes, and it worked.



He found a house in California?s Silicon Valley that he planned to buy for his 20-year-old daughter, a university student in Boston who plans on attending graduate school in the Bay area.</em>



Okay... so lets do some math. If 100 Chinese have come here since late 08, and they only buy one house... no... lets say they buy two houses each, that is 200 homes they will have bought.



<em>Chinese buyers are looking at both commercial property and homes to rent out or use on business trips. And the U.S. has plenty of unsold homes to offer ? 3.67 million as of the end of December, according to the National Association of Realtors.</em>



Now that doesn't include all the new home inventory, plus they said they were interested commercial as well. So make that 1.5 houses, and the total 150 homes. That 0.0004% of the existing homes on the market, and 0.000004% if you include new home inventory, and 0.00000000004% if you include all the REOs not on the market yet.



So, it doesn't surprise me in the least bit that the dumb people who thought the bubble can go on forever, are just as dumb to believe that the Chinese will make any difference in the RE market. It really, truly is, the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
 
its quite interesting to see that chinese govt is the bigest loaner to US govt and on the other side chinese r buying US homes. US is attracting every penny from china, its like first chinese took all the US $ by exporting all the goods, now they r completing the cycle by sending back $ to US in one way or another.
 
I was in Taiwan for 2 weeks and saw a TV program about real estate investors going to the US (from Taiwan). It's kinda popular right now because RE in Taiwan is in a slump. Investors lost confidence in local RE market and go to another RE market in slump to find deals. Irony at work here, hehehe.



In Chayi, Taiwan, a 5-room 5 bath luxury town home that sold in excess of 10 million NT when new some years ago, was purchased by my friend's parents for 4 million NT. Current exchange rate is about 34 NT to the dollar.



Right now, Irvine is "hot" on TW press due to ex-President Chen money laundering scandal. Not the kind of press I'd want for our city, but ah well...
 
I have no doubt Asians are looking and buying propertes in the US. One of the owners on my street is a very young korean couple with a kid. None of them works, and has cleaning services over often. Parents bought them a big ass house so they can go to school. But this is the NOT the norm, and I don't believe the mass is big enough to change anything.
 
FCBs RULE!



GraphPanda: They aren't going to save the entire US Real Estate market... they are just going to slow down the bubble popping in a few select areas... so they only need 0.000000004%.



Edit: Added the "Graph" to prevent confusion.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1234577669]FCBs RULE!



Panda: They aren't going to save the entire US Real Estate market... they are just going to slow down the bubble popping in a few select areas... so they only need 0.000000004%.</blockquote>


Dude, who said that the FCBs is going to save our entire Real Estate Market? Are you smoking my Panda XPress Bamboo Bong again? I am Anti-FCB/FOB what ever you want to call it. Actually, I am hoping that Seoul real estate crashes big time like the Japanese!
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1234578063][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1234577669]FCBs RULE!



Panda: They aren't going to save the entire US Real Estate market... they are just going to slow down the bubble popping in a few select areas... so they only need 0.000000004%.</blockquote>


Dude, who said that the FCBs is going to save our entire Real Estate Market? Are you smoking my Panda XPress Bamboo Bong again? I am Anti-FCB/FOB what ever you want to call it. Actually, I am hoping that Seoul real estate crashes big time like the Japanese!</blockquote>


LOL, I never thought I would see the day when Panda gave someone a b*tch slap, but Panda XPress Bamboo Bong did the trick. Good job Panda. Poor IHO, no longer do I have to put the smack down on his FCB theories, because I've got Panda to smack him around for me.
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1234578063]I am Anti-FCB/FOB what ever you want to call it.</blockquote>


Tsk tsk. That isn't a very Christian sentiment.
 
Most Chinese are very limited in diversified skills and knowledge. They are extremely focused in their particular specialized interest, academic, career, business and etc. They rely on RE consultants to teach them about RE in America. Often these consultants are their friend's friend or relatives. The biggest pit fall for the Chinese is being too trustworthy with their relatives and friends who really are not keeping their best interest at heart.



The best form of marketing for Chinese is not by PR campaign but by word of mouth among their peers. Chinese are extremely smart in what they do but yet they are very gullible in trusting their friends words.
 
[quote author="PANDA" date=1234578063][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1234577669]FCBs RULE!



GraphPanda: They aren't going to save the entire US Real Estate market... they are just going to slow down the bubble popping in a few select areas... so they only need 0.000000004%.</blockquote>


Dude, who said that the FCBs is going to save our entire Real Estate Market? Are you smoking my Panda XPress Bamboo Bong again? I am Anti-FCB/FOB what ever you want to call it. Actually, I am hoping that Seoul real estate crashes big time like the Japanese!</blockquote>
Sigh... RIF... Reading Is Fundamental.



Let me break it down because the cold weather must be freezing your brain.



Graph's post claims that the FCBs are too low in number to have any effect on the number of homes available in the US market. I agreed.



My contention, though, is FCBs will have an effect in certain pocket areas and keep them from deflating as fast as other areas. And they don't necessarily have to be Chinese... if anyone recalls... the C part is the most important letter in this acronym... CASH.



It's the non-fundamentals (as BK is alluding to) that keeps that KoolAid flowing. There are reasons why places with "Turtle" in their name stay so high priced even though they are over 30 years old and have outdated floorplans.



Edit: My bad... TIF... Typing is Fundamental... I should have put GraphPanda.
 
[quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1234580889][quote author="PANDA" date=1234578063][quote author="irvine_home_owner" date=1234577669]FCB RULE!



GraphPanda: They aren't going to save the entire US Real Estate market... they are just going to slow down the bubble popping in a few select areas... so they only need 0.000000004%.</blockquote>


Dude, who said that the FCB is going to save our entire Real Estate Market? Are you smoking my Panda XPress Bamboo Bong again? I am Anti-FCB/FOB what ever you want to call it. Actually, I am hoping that Seoul real estate crashes big time like the Japanese!</blockquote>
Sigh... RIF... Reading Is Fundamental.



Let me break it down because the cold weather must be freezing your brain.



Graph's post claims that the FCB are too low in number to have any effect on the number of homes available in the US market. I agreed.



My contention, though, is FCB will have an effect in certain pocket areas and keep them from deflating as fast as other areas. And they don't necessarily have to be Chinese... if anyone recalls... the C part is the most important letter in this acronym... CASH.



It's the non-fundamentals (as BK is alluding to) that keeps that KoolAid flowing. There are reasons why places with "Turtle" in their name stay so high priced even though they are over 30 years old and have outdated floorplans.



Edit: My bad... TIF... Typing is Fundamental... I should have put GraphPanda.</blockquote>


I have to agree with IHO on this. Turtle Rock is the helm to some of the most educated and Chinese scholars. They were the first wave of Chinese living in Irvine since the 70's. To their credit they are actively involved in the Chinese cultural community in Irvine. Their united strength promoted Chinese cultural awareness through many projects such as the Chinese Buddhist Temple, Chinese Cultural Center, UCI Chinese Program and Events, and Chinese Schools in Irvine. They also led foreign oversea exchange programs in economic and cultural benefits through the City of Irvine and City of Shanghai and Taipei.



Since these active citizens are mostly living in Turtle Rock their peers recognizes their homes extremely prestigious. They are asking for a much higher price than other Irvine locations even for an older home with obsolete floor plan. Their voice matter in the Irvine Chinese community therefore Turtle Rock is the zenith of Irvine.
 
I think we should give FCBs more attention. If i can recalled correctly, didnt the Japanese buy up a lot of RE during the early 80s housing bust? (LA, NY)? I think the mentality of FCB is that RE will always appreciate and if you can get prime RE at a bargain price then it would seemed like a good investment.
 
[quote author="Irvinian" date=1235482648]I think we should give FCBs more attention. If i can recalled correctly, didnt the Japanese buy up a lot of RE during the early 80s housing bust? (LA, NY)? I think the mentality of FCB is that RE will always appreciate and if you can get prime RE at a bargain price then it would seemed like a good investment.</blockquote>


I absolutely agree with you. We can turn Northwood II into Little Beijing. There is enough resales there to satisfy all the foreign craving. Just becareful when driving a white Lexus to the neighborhood center!
 
[quote author="bkshopr" date=1235484335][quote author="Irvinian" date=1235482648]I think we should give FCBs more attention. If i can recalled correctly, didnt the Japanese buy up a lot of RE during the early 80s housing bust? (LA, NY)? I think the mentality of FCB is that RE will always appreciate and if you can get prime RE at a bargain price then it would seemed like a good investment.</blockquote>


I absolutely agree with you. We can turn Northwood II into Little Beijing. There is enough resales there to satisfy all the foreign craving. Just becareful when driving a white Lexus to the neighborhood center!</blockquote>


I miss Hong Guang Zhu. The game is still juicy with him gone, but he was always welcome.
 
[quote author="Irvinian" date=1235482648]I think we should give FCBs more attention. If i can recalled correctly, didnt the Japanese buy up a lot of RE during the early 80s housing bust? (LA, NY)? I think the mentality of FCB is that RE will always appreciate and if you can get prime RE at a bargain price then it would seemed like a good investment.</blockquote>


Japanese bought a ton of LA property at the peak of the market. And got burned. That is probably why they did not come back this time.
 
I saw a tour bus of Chinese tourists at The District last weekend. I thought about asking them if they were there to buy toxic mortgages from toxic VoC, but since I am gwailo I decided against it.
 
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