Trying to buy in Irvine is NO Fun

TustinRanchResident said:
From the looks of it, the vested reason that edhne is supporting this house and its value is...

edhne owns a similar house in the same community (he/she walks by it) OR edhne just bought it AND is testing waters since he/she may plan on selling it soon based on "solid" or "good" comps (whichever is better word :p ) in turtle rock area. When IndieDev questioned it, it is equivalent
to questioning your home and its value - hence the emotional quotient.

Does it make sense?

perfect. you have me totally psycho-analyzed. I don't how I can sleep without getting Indie to give me comfort that its all going to be ok. I was hoping to use the bet money to get me from under my mortgage but alas...
 
TustinRanchResident said:
From the looks of it, the vested reason that edhne is supporting this house and its value is...

edhne owns a similar house in the same community (he/she walks by it) OR edhne just bought it AND is testing waters since he/she may plan on selling it soon based on "solid" or "good" comps (whichever is better word :p ) in turtle rock area. When IndieDev questioned it, it is equivalent
to questioning your home and its value - hence the emotional quotient.

Does it make sense?

The real reason is that I had a slow week and I like to discuss economics, valuations and present value models. But when the posts started to get old and overly personal, I was going to just shut up and let it die but when Indie explained he was doing it for the "people," I just couldn't help myself..lol....I know I know...I should know better but "irking the young at heart" out to "defend the hapless" from me is so very entertaining.

 
Starlight East said:
No. IndieDev wants to buy this house for 600K (his "fundamental" value) and does not want anyone to outbid him. Hence the campaigning.

ha ha, thats funny and interesting. Yes - that angle works too, to have so many posts by 2 people regarding one particular property with out being connected to it.

edhne playing role of seller and IndieDev playing that of buyer, folks - thats the link!
 
TustinRanchResident said:
From the looks of it, the vested reason that edhne is supporting this house and its value is...

edhne owns a similar house in the same community (he/she walks by it) OR edhne just bought it AND is testing waters since he/she may plan on selling it soon based on "solid" or "good" comps (whichever is better word :p ) in turtle rock area. When IndieDev questioned it, it is equivalent
to questioning your home and its value - hence the emotional quotient.

Does it make sense?

Pretty much.
 
Starlight East said:
TustinRanchResident said:
From the looks of it, the vested reason that edhne is supporting this house and its value is...

edhne owns a similar house in the same community (he/she walks by it) OR edhne just bought it AND is testing waters since he/she may plan on selling it soon based on "solid" or "good" comps (whichever is better word :p ) in turtle rock area. When IndieDev questioned it, it is equivalent
to questioning your home and its value - hence the emotional quotient.

Does it make sense?

No. IndieDev wants to buy this house for 600K (his "fundamental" value) and does not want anyone to outbid him. Hence the campaigning.

Except that IndieDev owns a newer home, worth more (by today's valuations) than edhne's house, and is looking to move out of Irvine to Coastal OC in the next 1-3 years, and it doesn't depend on whether IndieDev sells his Irvine home (which he may not).
 
edhne said:
The real reason is that I had a slow week and I like to discuss economics, valuations and present value models.

Right, you're trying to play it off like you weren't emotional about me saying your 40 year old house on Culver wasn't worth $839,000, but your post where you started "dishing out" your credentials shows otherwise. You were having a literal meltdown, and then when other forum members started calling BS on your self-promotion, you started trying to troll the thread with 7 and 10 year bets about the "future value" of the house, something I never even commented on.

What it comes down to is you offered shitty advice to someone, I called you on it, and then challenged you on it with a $1,000 bet to see how confident you were about a "solid comp". Of course, we both know you were talking BS which is why you happily admitted later on that you were simply wrong, and then tried to troll the thread.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
Observer's take:

Saying you don't "need $1000" is probably just as showy as "dishing out credentials".

Just sayin'.  :-X

Really? I don't know any MBA programs that cost $1,000 unless you go to school in the Caribbean.

But my point wasn't about "financially" needing the $1,000, it was that the money wasn't my main concern, it was proving that edhne was trying to pass bullshit to people, which has been proven by his own admission. So yes, I didn't need the $1,000, I "needed" edhne to admit he passed bullshit.

I'm personally satisfied.
 
IndieDev said:
edhne said:
The real reason is that I had a slow week and I like to discuss economics, valuations and present value models.

Right, you're trying to play it off like you weren't emotional about me saying your 40 year old house on Culver wasn't worth $839,000, but your post where you started "dishing out" your credentials shows otherwise. You were having a literal meltdown, and then when other forum members started calling BS on your self-promotion, you started trying to troll the thread with 7 and 10 year bets about the "future value" of the house, something I never even commented on.

What it comes down to is you offered shitty advice to someone, I called you on it, and then challenged you on it with a $1,000 bet to see how confident you were about a "solid comp". Of course, we both know you were talking BS which is why you happily admitted later on that you were simply wrong, and then tried to troll the thread.

lmao. you are so much fun...Indie "the people's champ" for the win! It's all clearly true because Indie says it is. And we still talking about the 839k? Oh, right...now you want to talk about why we talked about 839k...lol. It was in defense of the poor suckers who might be financially ruined because of my "emotional" distraughtness over the price of the home. Settled. Done. Perfect. roflmao.

Not addressing your "economic reality-based model" of fundamental value anymore? The one with not derived from any future projections because you don't know what will happen in the future? You really should focus on that to help the maximum number of people from financial ruin. I don't know if saving them 20k against my "advice" on this home will really help them with their financial future.

So tell the "people" who need your "market driven wisdom", when you buy your coastal OC home in the next year or so,

1) are you going to buy only when your patrick.net model with its base assumptions tells you that the price you are paying is "fundamental" value to rental parity?
2) Not check comps as they are meaningless
 
edhne said:
lmao. you are so much fun...Indie "the people's champ" for the win! It's all clearly true because Indie says it is. And we still talking about the 839k? Oh, right...now you want to talk about why we talked about 839k...lol. It was in defense of the poor suckers who might be financially ruined because of my "emotional" distraughtness over the price of the home. Settled. Done. Perfect. roflmao.

Not addressing your "economic reality-based model" of fundamental value anymore? The one with not derived from any future projections because you don't know what will happen in the future? You really should focus on that to help the maximum number of people from financial ruin. I don't know if saving them 20k against my "advice" on this home will really help them with their financial future.

So tell the "people" who need your "market driven wisdom", when you buy your coastal OC home in the next year or so,

1) are you going to buy only when your patrick.net model with its base assumptions tells you that the price you are paying is "fundamental" value to rental parity?
2) Not check comps as they are meaningless

Why do you seem so disturbed that I challenged your opinion? As a professional CFA, with a distinguished education as you claimed earlier, you don't seem to act "very professional". Instead of attempting to explain in sound theory why you think $839,000 was a good comp or value, you resorted to acting like a child by directly attacking me, and then trolling the thread into 7-10 year phantom wagers. Now you're here continuously trying to get my attention after you already admitted that you were wrong on your original claim, to me the issue was settled.

Here you are though, spending your time trying to goad me into another strawman debate on another meaningless topic. I hope you don't display this type of professionalism in front of your clients.
 
IndieDev said:
edhne said:
lmao. you are so much fun...Indie "the people's champ" for the win! It's all clearly true because Indie says it is. And we still talking about the 839k? Oh, right...now you want to talk about why we talked about 839k...lol. It was in defense of the poor suckers who might be financially ruined because of my "emotional" distraughtness over the price of the home. Settled. Done. Perfect. roflmao.

Not addressing your "economic reality-based model" of fundamental value anymore? The one with not derived from any future projections because you don't know what will happen in the future? You really should focus on that to help the maximum number of people from financial ruin. I don't know if saving them 20k against my "advice" on this home will really help them with their financial future.

So tell the "people" who need your "market driven wisdom", when you buy your coastal OC home in the next year or so,

1) are you going to buy only when your patrick.net model with its base assumptions tells you that the price you are paying is "fundamental" value to rental parity?
2) Not check comps as they are meaningless

Why do you seem so disturbed that I challenged your opinion? As a professional CFA, with a distinguished education as you claimed earlier, you don't seem to act "very professional". Instead of attempting to explain in sound theory why you think $839,000 was a good comp or value, you resorted to acting like a child by directly attacking me, and then trolling the thread into 7-10 year phantom wagers. Now you're here continuously trying to get my attention after you already admitted that you were wrong on your original claim, to me the issue was settled.

Here you are though, spending your time trying to goad me into another strawman debate on another meaningless topic. I hope you don't display this type of professionalism in front of your clients.

Meaningless topic? How Indie "the people's champ" will evaluate his own purchase is a meaningless topic? I thought this board was a place to get advise from economic reality mavens such as yourself? We don't have to debate it. Asking you if you planning on practicing what you preached to the board.

When you execute your move to OC coastal, are you going to follow your own advice on "fundamental value" by

1) Using your patrick.net model with its base assumptions as "fundamental" value to rental parity?
2) ignore comps as they are meaningless inflated values.
3) Use BLS inflation only based appreciation rate from pre-bubble 90's transaction values.
 
edhne said:
IndieDev said:
edhne said:
lmao. you are so much fun...Indie "the people's champ" for the win! It's all clearly true because Indie says it is. And we still talking about the 839k? Oh, right...now you want to talk about why we talked about 839k...lol. It was in defense of the poor suckers who might be financially ruined because of my "emotional" distraughtness over the price of the home. Settled. Done. Perfect. roflmao.

Not addressing your "economic reality-based model" of fundamental value anymore? The one with not derived from any future projections because you don't know what will happen in the future? You really should focus on that to help the maximum number of people from financial ruin. I don't know if saving them 20k against my "advice" on this home will really help them with their financial future.

So tell the "people" who need your "market driven wisdom", when you buy your coastal OC home in the next year or so,

1) are you going to buy only when your patrick.net model with its base assumptions tells you that the price you are paying is "fundamental" value to rental parity?
2) Not check comps as they are meaningless

Why do you seem so disturbed that I challenged your opinion? As a professional CFA, with a distinguished education as you claimed earlier, you don't seem to act "very professional". Instead of attempting to explain in sound theory why you think $839,000 was a good comp or value, you resorted to acting like a child by directly attacking me, and then trolling the thread into 7-10 year phantom wagers. Now you're here continuously trying to get my attention after you already admitted that you were wrong on your original claim, to me the issue was settled.

Here you are though, spending your time trying to goad me into another strawman debate on another meaningless topic. I hope you don't display this type of professionalism in front of your clients.

Meaningless topic? How Indie "the people's champ" will evaluate his own purchase is a meaningless topic? I thought this board was a place to get advise from economic reality mavens such as yourself? We don't have to debate it. Asking you if you planning on practicing what you preached to the board.

When you execute your move to OC coastal, are you going to follow your own advice on "fundamental value" by

1) Using your patrick.net model with its base assumptions as "fundamental" value to rental parity?
2) ignore comps as they are meaningless inflated values.
3) Use BLS inflation only based appreciation rate from pre-bubble 90's transaction values.

Maybe.
 
History: edhne was in this thread telling potential home owners that 19181 Biddle Drive, a 40 year old home in Turtle Rock, backing to Culver, was a "good comp" at $839,000. He continued to defend the valuation of $839,000 by claiming the number was supported by land value alone, the coveted nature of Turtle Rock, and an invented zillow based inflation model, and all sorts of other Guess-O-Nomics.

My response to edhne's claim is below:

edhne said:
IndieDev said:
Also it's over priced based on fundamentals by about $200,000 dollars, which is why it's unsold in 8 months. This home will end up being a classic case of "chasing the market down" unless the seller finds a big foreign cash sucker.

Hmm..how to define fundamentals.
Comps? Recent comps...across the street..sold for 820. a little more sqft but much much older...nothing updated.

Rental parity? Then they rented out the place across the street for 3700~3800 a month as is.

Replacement value?
Usually homes in TRock are +80% land value because of age of homes. Try building a 2000 SQFT home there for under $200 sq/ft. So 400k in building costs. I doubt you can buy this lot for 400k.

200k over fundamentals? That would put this house at 2003 prices based on zillow estimates. So in 8 years, if prices appreciated at exactly 3.5% per year from your 2003, this house would be ..drum roll...840k.

I guess if you believe that all homes should be back 2003 prices...that's a whole different argument but not one based on "fundamentals."

IndieDev said:
What we do know is that the home sold for $285,000 pre-bubble (1996), and using ACTUAL inflation increases since 1996 based on BLS statistics, not some guesstimate of 3.5%, the actual inflation adjusted value of the house is around $402,000. Now accounting for a full remodel (which it looks like it was done within the past 5 years or so), you can throw in another $100,000 - $150,000 based on personal preference of the "updates". So I'm actually being a bit friendly with the $600,000+ valuation, but that's only because Turtle Rock is a somewhat coveted area.

More proof no one should ever listen to anything edhne says:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/18921-Antioch-Dr-92603/home/4738176

40 year old house, backing to Culver in Turtle Rock, only 2 blocks down the street from 19181 Biddle Drive(which edhne claimed was a good comp at $839,000), but with MORE square footage :

July 1st, 2011 price, $608,000
 
Some people will severely overpay in a correcting market, but I will agree that $300/sqft isn't the norm yet, but it's heading quicker towards that number than it is the $533/sqft average listed on Redfin. Here are some that cleared the sub-400/sqft mark from the past 90 days, NONE backing to Culver:
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/23-Rippling-Strm-92603/home/4742621
$385/sqft
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/5031-Alcorn-Ln-92603/home/4737855
$397/sqft
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/3-Candlebush-92603/home/4744797
$357/sqft
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Irvine/8-La-Quinta-92612/unit-22/home/5498182
$331/sqft

When it comes down to it, there's no plausible explanation for claiming $839,000 is a good comp for 19181 Biddle Dr in this current market unless someone is getting ripped off, or your name is edhne.
 
I havent gone through the last 8 pages so not sure what all the drama was about but agree that TR is coming down in price. 
 
rkp said:
I havent gone through the last 8 pages so not sure what all the drama was about but agree that TR is coming down in price.

Cliffs:
- Newcomer comes onto TalkIrvine expressing how hard it is to find good product in their price range, especially new.
- "edhne" chimes in and suggest buying in TR, specifically 19181 Biddle Dr because even though it's expensive it's a "good solid comp" and value for the money ($839,000).
- I say bullsh*t, and say it's overpriced. It's a 40 year old house, backing to Culver. I say it's worth closer to $600,000, than $800,000 based on fundamentals in the area.
- edhne takes offense (probably because he owns in the area). He uses "Zillow" and a made up inflation rate to reason that it's actually worth more than the listing price
- I go on to list my reasons of why I think it's over priced based on ACTUAL inflation, median salary in the area, comparable rents, and say it will never sell at the listed price unless he finds a big foreign asian sucker.
- He claims he's a CPA/CFA with an MBA and will bet me $1,000 that the house in question will close above $800,000 in 7 years. Yes, he wanted to make a bet with me where we might have to wait nearly a decade to prove his theory right.  ::)
- I counter with a more reasonable bet where I say it won't close within $10,000 of his claimed "solid comp" the next time the property goes pending, I then increase the gap to $15,000 to sweeten the deal.
- edhne, backed into a corner finally admits he made a mistake and that $839,000 might not be a very good comp.
- 2 months later, a house of the same age, backing to Culver, 2 blocks down the street, but with more square footage shows up on the MLS listed at $608,000. 19181 Biddle Dr is taken off market. edhne's lack of knowledge is now fully exposed.
 
To be fair, $608k is a short sale price, which are usually low to generate interest and more offers to the bank.

I haven't really looked but I don't think there are many 2000sft+ SFRs in Turtle Rock that have closed recently at $600k.
 
irvinehomeowner said:
I haven't really looked but I don't think there are many 2000sft+ SFRs in Turtle Rock that have closed recently at $600k.

This would be the first in a very long time (since 2003). It shows how far TR has fallen.

In April, the Guess-O-Nomics crowd was saying it wasn't even possible.
 
Until
IndieDev said:
irvinehomeowner said:
I haven't really looked but I don't think there are many 2000sft+ SFRs in Turtle Rock that have closed recently at $600k.

This would be the first in a very long time (since 2003). It shows how far TR has fallen.

In April, the Guess-O-Nomics crowd was saying it wasn't even possible.
Until it closes... it shows nothing. Last year REX Realty listed "auction" homes at half the comps... but they ended closing at or above the prevailing prices.

I know you're not a realtor and a self-proclaimed expert in Funda-nomics... but looking at recent comps... do you think this will close closer to $600k or $700k?

Taking this outlier and saying "Look look... $600k TR home... toldyaso" is similar to the "disinformation" you pride yourself on defeating.
 
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