TimHume_IHB
New member
I want one of these BK houses. What he describes sounds perfect to me. YMMV.
The perfect BK style house designed just for IHBers.
- Thread starter bkshopr_IHB
- Start date
NEW -> Contingent Buyer Assistance Program
Isn't the lasting value of a community more to do with quality custom architecture and construction vs. mass produced builder designed tract homes, rather than driveway/garage placement? If the same 3 designs are repeated over and over again for 200 homes packed together like sardines on 3,000 sq ft lots, I doubt such a neighborhood will have any long lasting value even if the 3 designs bear some superficial resemblance to homes in "classic" neighborhoods. TIC loves to say their villages like Northpark, Woodbury etc resemble classic California neighborhoods but this is a sick joke to me.
This type of home seems similar to a SFR alley product I viewed in Hawaii, Ocean Pointe, a master planned community in West Oahu. They have a range of SFR size homes with an alley and backyard sandwiched between home and detached garage. Some of the larger homes offer a carport or hobby room option. I do like the idea of offering a 2nd floor loft/granny room above garage with bridge. I also like the 2.75 garage with storage and sliding door. Keep up the good work BK.
Here is a link to some sample floor plans:
Executive Home
Manor Home
Land will not go down in value regardless of how you use it. When you use less land you buy less land. Buy less therefore pay less but land value does not go down.
yes, non pack-rats park two cars in a two car garage and wedge their stuff around.
Pack-rats, the ones you're talking about, can barely get one car in a 3 car garage, and some don't even get any cars in their garage.
Irvine's parking requirements are completely inadequate when a neighborhood matures. For townhomes or condos, it's inadequate from day one.
Right or wrong, we are society that has moved to one car per adult with economically stable consumer households having a 'spare' car on top of that.
Do not interpret this too literally. What I mean is by using less land it does not decrease land cost. When one buys one roll of paper towel he has to pay more per unit price for that one roll vs buying in a bulk of 16. The same applies for buying a smaller house and a large house. You pay more per Sf for a smaller house.
Hince my perference for homse in these two cities.
For detached condos and attached housing. Total parking required per unit is 2.75 stalls. 2 in garage and .75 must be outside on the street but no farther than 150' from the unit.
For detached homes: Total parking required per home is 3 stalls. 2 in the garage and 1 must be on the street in front of the home. Driveway parking is not required.
The one I was talking about is Graph. He has surpassed "pack-rat". He is a "peeing pack rat". He needs the 2.75 car garage and use the .75 for a garage powder room.
As enjoyable as this exercise is, I suspect that you are going to find that the majority of IHBers cannot afford to purchase one of your properties - a quick glance at your "income" poll tells me that.
If you take a 45' by 45' lot of land (I'm using a square for simplicity) for a standard 2-car front garage w/driveway... and strip off 10'x45' to make it 35' wide. That strip tacked on to the back does not make up for the detached garage and access.
Bad math shenanigans.
bkshopr, How large would the private yard be? If it is too small, my concern is that it may get a little claustrophobic being in a small area enclosed by two stories...
15x30 approx. and may be the mudroom could be a single story so both sides of the yard could be single story roofs?
High Gravity_IHB
New member
bkshopr said:
Isn't the lasting value of a community more to do with quality custom architecture and construction vs. mass produced builder designed tract homes, rather than driveway/garage placement? If the same 3 designs are repeated over and over again for 200 homes packed together like sardines on 3,000 sq ft lots, I doubt such a neighborhood will have any long lasting value even if the 3 designs bear some superficial resemblance to homes in "classic" neighborhoods. TIC loves to say their villages like Northpark, Woodbury etc resemble classic California neighborhoods but this is a sick joke to me.
ABC123_IHB
New member
I absolutely agree with High Gravity. As long as Irvine chops down trees and won't allow them to mature, the city will never be as aesthetically pleasing as cities like South Pasadena.
IACRenter_IHB
New member
acpme said:
This type of home seems similar to a SFR alley product I viewed in Hawaii, Ocean Pointe, a master planned community in West Oahu. They have a range of SFR size homes with an alley and backyard sandwiched between home and detached garage. Some of the larger homes offer a carport or hobby room option. I do like the idea of offering a 2nd floor loft/granny room above garage with bridge. I also like the 2.75 garage with storage and sliding door. Keep up the good work BK.
Here is a link to some sample floor plans:
Executive Home
Manor Home
bkshopr_IHB
New member
socalhousingbubble said:
Land will not go down in value regardless of how you use it. When you use less land you buy less land. Buy less therefore pay less but land value does not go down.
socalhousingbubble_IHB
New member
opuswon_IHB
New member
So you're saying that 10 acres of OC land in 2006 is now worth the same amount in 2009? Doubtful.bkshopr said:
bkshopr_IHB
New member
Disadvantage of Bk prototype= no driveway
Advantages of BK prototype :
1. 40% could be a 3 car garage (lots of storage)
2. 60% could be a 2 car garage+an oversized 13' wide outside stall that can park an RV or boat by extending into the yard. or a 2.75 garage (still a lot of storage)
3. Granny flat over garage with its own stairs or connected to the main house via 2nd floor over mud room. Could be used as a upstairs bonus room for kids or a painter studio.
4. Back of garage with slider allow light into space.
5. Direct access from yard and visually seen from the great room and kitchen allow better utilization of garage for games and backyard toy storage.
6. use the garage as bonus room for billiard, ping pong, and arcade with a large slider from rear yard.
7. A rental unit above garage with direct one car access from either the outside stall or a 1 car divider wall inside the 3 car garage. A perfect living suite with a kitchenette and luxury bath for guest. in-laws or boomerang children.
8. An attractive front
9. No neighbors could view into private yard. The neighbor's house to the left of Acpme's sketch is a zero lot wall. View from right is blocked by mudroom and the space above the mudroom.
10. Infinite curbside parking. (300% of detached condos)
11. Solar panel installation over the granny flat roof facing the alley is acceptable by HOA and architectural guideline.
12. Detached home office via yard access at part of the garage.
13. 7x15' long mudroom for multi purpose uses such as Costco storage, computer super laundry, drop off backpacks, keys, mails, pantry, pet center, shoe center for Asians, crafts-room, family photo gallery, and etc.
14. Save money on private yard because no landscaping or patio cover screening is needed to block neighbors view.
15. On the ground level complete windows across the front and back maximized light and cross ventilation
16. Most fires are started in garage and the main house is much safer when the garage is almost detached.
17. Outdoor fireplace at the rear wall of the garage is seen from the great room and kitchen.
18. Take the option of a 10' wide mudroom option and convert it to the 4th car tandem.
19. Open up the mudroom and use it as a covered outdoor dining patio or sitting with a flat screen TV mounted on the wall against the right side neighbor.
20. Cost $200,000 less than a house with a 2 car driveway. (With a 3 car alley garage the disadvantage is the 4th car is parked in front of the house)
Advantages of house having a driveway:
1. 2 dedicated car stalls on the driveway. Each stall costs $100,000.
2. Less front yard maintenance.
Disadvantages:
1. None of the 20 BK prototype advantages
2. 5 neighbors looking down to the rear yard and across each others rooms.
3. Dark rooms behind the garage.
4. Costs $200k more due to inefficient land usage.
5. Ugly
6. Can't see the street from inside the house.
7. Dark garages
8. 75% less street trees and parkway.
Advantages of BK prototype :
1. 40% could be a 3 car garage (lots of storage)
2. 60% could be a 2 car garage+an oversized 13' wide outside stall that can park an RV or boat by extending into the yard. or a 2.75 garage (still a lot of storage)
3. Granny flat over garage with its own stairs or connected to the main house via 2nd floor over mud room. Could be used as a upstairs bonus room for kids or a painter studio.
4. Back of garage with slider allow light into space.
5. Direct access from yard and visually seen from the great room and kitchen allow better utilization of garage for games and backyard toy storage.
6. use the garage as bonus room for billiard, ping pong, and arcade with a large slider from rear yard.
7. A rental unit above garage with direct one car access from either the outside stall or a 1 car divider wall inside the 3 car garage. A perfect living suite with a kitchenette and luxury bath for guest. in-laws or boomerang children.
8. An attractive front
9. No neighbors could view into private yard. The neighbor's house to the left of Acpme's sketch is a zero lot wall. View from right is blocked by mudroom and the space above the mudroom.
10. Infinite curbside parking. (300% of detached condos)
11. Solar panel installation over the granny flat roof facing the alley is acceptable by HOA and architectural guideline.
12. Detached home office via yard access at part of the garage.
13. 7x15' long mudroom for multi purpose uses such as Costco storage, computer super laundry, drop off backpacks, keys, mails, pantry, pet center, shoe center for Asians, crafts-room, family photo gallery, and etc.
14. Save money on private yard because no landscaping or patio cover screening is needed to block neighbors view.
15. On the ground level complete windows across the front and back maximized light and cross ventilation
16. Most fires are started in garage and the main house is much safer when the garage is almost detached.
17. Outdoor fireplace at the rear wall of the garage is seen from the great room and kitchen.
18. Take the option of a 10' wide mudroom option and convert it to the 4th car tandem.
19. Open up the mudroom and use it as a covered outdoor dining patio or sitting with a flat screen TV mounted on the wall against the right side neighbor.
20. Cost $200,000 less than a house with a 2 car driveway. (With a 3 car alley garage the disadvantage is the 4th car is parked in front of the house)
Advantages of house having a driveway:
1. 2 dedicated car stalls on the driveway. Each stall costs $100,000.
2. Less front yard maintenance.
Disadvantages:
1. None of the 20 BK prototype advantages
2. 5 neighbors looking down to the rear yard and across each others rooms.
3. Dark rooms behind the garage.
4. Costs $200k more due to inefficient land usage.
5. Ugly
6. Can't see the street from inside the house.
7. Dark garages
8. 75% less street trees and parkway.
No_Such_Reality_IHB
New member
how many total spots per house in existing code? two + 0.75 of a guest spot?bkshopr said:
yes, non pack-rats park two cars in a two car garage and wedge their stuff around.
Pack-rats, the ones you're talking about, can barely get one car in a 3 car garage, and some don't even get any cars in their garage.
Irvine's parking requirements are completely inadequate when a neighborhood matures. For townhomes or condos, it's inadequate from day one.
Right or wrong, we are society that has moved to one car per adult with economically stable consumer households having a 'spare' car on top of that.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
opuswon said:
Do not interpret this too literally. What I mean is by using less land it does not decrease land cost. When one buys one roll of paper towel he has to pay more per unit price for that one roll vs buying in a bulk of 16. The same applies for buying a smaller house and a large house. You pay more per Sf for a smaller house.
no_vaseline_IHB
New member
irvine_home_owner said:
Hince my perference for homse in these two cities.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
No_Such_Reality said:
For detached condos and attached housing. Total parking required per unit is 2.75 stalls. 2 in garage and .75 must be outside on the street but no farther than 150' from the unit.
For detached homes: Total parking required per home is 3 stalls. 2 in the garage and 1 must be on the street in front of the home. Driveway parking is not required.
The one I was talking about is Graph. He has surpassed "pack-rat". He is a "peeing pack rat". He needs the 2.75 car garage and use the .75 for a garage powder room.
No_Such_Reality_IHB
New member
I'm just thinking of my neighborhood.
House 1: four cars, 3 car garage, one car can park in the garage. (3 bedrooms)
House 2: four cars, 3 car garage, two cars can park in the garage. (3 bedrooms)
House 3: four cars, 3 car garage, one car can park in garage. (house is only two adults: 3 bedrooms)
House 4: empty foreclosure 3 bedroom with two car garage.
House 5: three cars, 2.5 car garage, two cars in garage. (2 bedroom)
House 6: two cars, 2 two garage, one car in garage. (2 bedroom)
House 7: two car garge, two cars, both in garage! (2 bedroom)
House 8: one car, two car garage, space for one car in garage. (single adult: 2 bedrooms)
House 9: Three cars, two car garage, one car in the garage. (2 bedroom, cars are SUVs only one fits.)
If I add a fictitious 10th house and populate house #4, how many cars do we have in a neighborhood of two and three bedroom 'homes'. If some of those are four bedroom homes, how many additional cars do we get?
House 1: four cars, 3 car garage, one car can park in the garage. (3 bedrooms)
House 2: four cars, 3 car garage, two cars can park in the garage. (3 bedrooms)
House 3: four cars, 3 car garage, one car can park in garage. (house is only two adults: 3 bedrooms)
House 4: empty foreclosure 3 bedroom with two car garage.
House 5: three cars, 2.5 car garage, two cars in garage. (2 bedroom)
House 6: two cars, 2 two garage, one car in garage. (2 bedroom)
House 7: two car garge, two cars, both in garage! (2 bedroom)
House 8: one car, two car garage, space for one car in garage. (single adult: 2 bedrooms)
House 9: Three cars, two car garage, one car in the garage. (2 bedroom, cars are SUVs only one fits.)
If I add a fictitious 10th house and populate house #4, how many cars do we have in a neighborhood of two and three bedroom 'homes'. If some of those are four bedroom homes, how many additional cars do we get?
mikal1_IHB
New member
As enjoyable as this exercise is, I suspect that you are going to find that the majority of IHBers cannot afford to purchase one of your properties - a quick glance at your "income" poll tells me that.
O
Oscar_IHB
Guest
Bk,
So your ideal tract design includes a high traffic area that cannot be seen from the main house, with a renter entering and exiting along an alley (of undetermined width) competing with other renters and owners to get out of the garage and down the alley to the street to commute to work? Will this be the trash and recycling areas too? I noticed on the garage thread that you want to close one end, to prevent traffic passthrough, with a basketball hoop. What kind of adjustment will be made to the lots backing into that area?
So your ideal tract design includes a high traffic area that cannot be seen from the main house, with a renter entering and exiting along an alley (of undetermined width) competing with other renters and owners to get out of the garage and down the alley to the street to commute to work? Will this be the trash and recycling areas too? I noticed on the garage thread that you want to close one end, to prevent traffic passthrough, with a basketball hoop. What kind of adjustment will be made to the lots backing into that area?
irvine_home_owner_IHB
New member
You still haven't shown me how you save land usage with your plan. A detached garage in your configuration looks to take up just as much of or more land depth-wise... especially when you have to factor in the added need for alley/motorcourts.bkshopr said:
If you take a 45' by 45' lot of land (I'm using a square for simplicity) for a standard 2-car front garage w/driveway... and strip off 10'x45' to make it 35' wide. That strip tacked on to the back does not make up for the detached garage and access.
Bad math shenanigans.
zovall_IHB
New member
bkshopr said:
bkshopr, How large would the private yard be? If it is too small, my concern is that it may get a little claustrophobic being in a small area enclosed by two stories...
bkshopr_IHB
New member
zovall said:
15x30 approx. and may be the mudroom could be a single story so both sides of the yard could be single story roofs?
acpme_IHB
New member
bk, thanks for that long summary of the features. very much helped in visualizing the layout and space.
it reminds me of lucera, madison lane, and wyndover in bonita canyon. obviously those are on a much larger scale and not alley-loaded. but if a builder can pull off a smaller version of those, i would be a happy camper. i agree with zov and wonder whether the yard would feel claustrophbic if completely enclosed by 2 stories on 3 sides. you may not want to allow buyers to over-featurize, i.e. opt for the granny flat AND enclosed mud room AND second floor covered hallway above mudroom.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Beach/12-Anondale-92660/home/4725940
another bonita canyon home...
i love the idea of the mudroom space as an outdoor patio, or possibly have a covered patio on the backside of the actual house if the mudroom is completely enclosed. that would help open up the yard, although the latter option would eat into actual living space inside the house.
below: imagine this is the yard taken with the garage directly behind you. the wall on the left with the staircase would represent the mudroom. either have a covered patio as part of the main house and an enclosed mudroom leading from the garage to the hosue (as in the picture), or swap the covered patio to where the mudroom/wall is and have a nice set of french doors from your house that opens into the yard. both would be lovely imo.
it reminds me of lucera, madison lane, and wyndover in bonita canyon. obviously those are on a much larger scale and not alley-loaded. but if a builder can pull off a smaller version of those, i would be a happy camper. i agree with zov and wonder whether the yard would feel claustrophbic if completely enclosed by 2 stories on 3 sides. you may not want to allow buyers to over-featurize, i.e. opt for the granny flat AND enclosed mud room AND second floor covered hallway above mudroom.
http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newport-Beach/12-Anondale-92660/home/4725940
another bonita canyon home...
i love the idea of the mudroom space as an outdoor patio, or possibly have a covered patio on the backside of the actual house if the mudroom is completely enclosed. that would help open up the yard, although the latter option would eat into actual living space inside the house.
below: imagine this is the yard taken with the garage directly behind you. the wall on the left with the staircase would represent the mudroom. either have a covered patio as part of the main house and an enclosed mudroom leading from the garage to the hosue (as in the picture), or swap the covered patio to where the mudroom/wall is and have a nice set of french doors from your house that opens into the yard. both would be lovely imo.
irvine_home_owner_IHB
New member
If it could be finagled... I would leave the mudroom/access corrider as single story and put some type of indoor stair access to the flex space above the garage. This way your yard is only flanked by 2 walls of 2-story structure.
The access corrider would also have an external outer lot door, double interior lot doors and locked doors to the garage and main home... so there is private access available to the flex space, it can be opened up to the backyard and it could also allow for rental access without compromising the main home if so desired.
The access corrider would also have an external outer lot door, double interior lot doors and locked doors to the garage and main home... so there is private access available to the flex space, it can be opened up to the backyard and it could also allow for rental access without compromising the main home if so desired.