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banstick

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We're considering a move into a rental in Irvine given its renowned academics. We do value academics. I also hear it's hyper competitive with affluent families who put their children through all sorts of extra tutoring and kumon type of support.

Question: will my children struggle to be average or excel if we just try to avoid the supplemental support? It's going to be a stretch for us to spend extra on top of just paying the premium to live here.
 
We don't live in the IUSD school district, but our school district zone is very similar to IUSD. The High School my boys attend is made of 50% Asian students and 36% White. Buying Real Estate in this highly rated school zone was great for Home appreciation, but if I can do it over again, I would rather have my boys attend a 7 or 8 rated high rated and shine vs being in an ultra competitive 10 rated school.

One of Seniors I play tennis with at this high school had a 4.4 GPA, 1530 SAT scores, applied to 11 colleges and got rejected from 10 colleges and just got into early admissions to UGA. Rejected from Georgia Tech with no conditional offer. He is an ABC (American Born Chinese) and if he applied from any other high school in GA, he would have easily gotten into Georgia Tech with his stats. He will be attending UGA in the fall.

My boys are targeting to study business at either Tech or UGA. If your son or daughter is targeting IVY Colleges, I would not recommend IUSD. Let them shine in a less competitive high school. An Asian kid with a 1500 SAT score, 4.2+ GPA, 30-45 credits in AP DE by time they graduate high school is a dime a dozen in the high school my boys attend. If your kids are only in elementary school, dont make the same mistake i did. Choose to compete in the Blue Ocean, not the Red Ocean (IUSD)
 
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panda said:
We don't live in the IUSD school district, but our school district zone is very similar to IUSD. The High School my boys attend is made of 50% Asian students and 36% White. Buying Real Estate in this highly rated school zone was great for Home appreciation, but if I can do it over again, I would rather have my boys attend a 7 or 8 rated high rated and shine vs being in an ultra competitive 10 rated school.

One of Seniors I play tennis with at this high school had a 4.4 GPA, 1530 SAT scores, applied to 11 colleges and got rejected from 10 colleges and just got into early admissions to UGA. Rejected from Georgia Tech with no conditional offer. He is an ABC (American Born Chinese) and if he applied from any other high school in GA, he would have easily gotten into Georgia Tech with his stats. He will be attending UGA in the fall.

My boys are targeting to study business at either Tech or UGA. If your son or daughter is targeting IVY Colleges, I would not recommend IUSD. Let them shine in a less competitive high school. An Asian kid with a 1500 SAT score, 4.2+ GPA, 30-45 credits in AP DE by time they graduate high school is a dime a dozen in the high school my boys attend. If your kids are only in elementary school, dont make the same mistake i did. Choose to compete in the Blue Ocean, not the Red Ocean (IUSD)
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Thanks for your insight. We'd be ecstatic if our kids can get into an upper tier UC (including Irvine, SD, etc). Do you think being a "dime a dozen" yields a good chance at that? If not, that's pretty discouraging.
 
banstick said:
Thanks for your insight. We'd be ecstatic if our kids can get into an upper tier UC (including Irvine, SD, etc). Do you think being a "dime a dozen" yields a good chance at that? If not, that's pretty discouraging.
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Unless they’re at the top of their class in IUSD they’ll be lucky to get into Cal St Fullerton if they have an Asian last name.
 
Here the GPA breakdown of the high school my boys are zoned for which I am sure is similar to the top IUSD high schools : Uni and Northwood. With a 4.00 - 4.10 GPA weighted, your child ranks in the top 40% of his or her class. Let that sink in for a moment. I don't know about you.. but If was ranked top 40% in my high school class and studied really hard, I wouldn't feel very smart, possibly thinking I am idiot.

The ABC senior I play tennis with was ranked 67 out of 777 students in his senior class. Rejected from Georiga Tech, No condition or Wait List. He told me that a students needs have 4.5 GPA to get into to Tech from this 10 rated Asian Majority High School. He would have been close to a valedictorian at a 7 or 8 rated High School opening up many more offers including Georgia Tech and couple second tier Ivys. I am sure ABC's story is very similar of how difficult it is to get into UCLA or Cal straight from Northwood or Uni.

1st Decile: 4.37-4.76 (Top 10%)
2nd Decile: 4.24-4.36 (Top 20%)
3rd Decile: 4.11-4.23 (Top 30%)
4th Decile: 4.00-4.10 (Top 40%)

1st Quartile: 4.17-4.76
2nd Quartile: 3.86-4.16
3rd Quartile: 3.43-3.85
 
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Liar Loan said:
How sad that we limit opportunity for such hard working, smart, and driven people in America. That's not the way it should be.
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I wonder if there's a silver lining to getting into a lower tier school despite being a 4.0 student in iusd. Maybe it will set that person up to do very well in undergrad and give better opportunity for grad schools.
 
banstick said:
I wonder if there's a silver lining to getting into a lower tier school despite being a 4.0 student in iusd. Maybe it will set that person up to do very well in undergrad and give better opportunity for grad schools.
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There is a great book that discusses exactly what you talking about here. Malcolm Gladwell, the author of Outliers has a study comparing students who attended Hartwick College (Lower tier College) vs Harvard University and the percentage of students who drop out of their STEM Major.
 
your kid may have a harder time
getting into a selective
college from IUSD versus a less
competitive
school district, but they will be very well prepared to actually succeed once there. As opposed to going to an easier high school,
and then not being prepared to handle the rigor/pace of a selective
uni. You know how many kids
drop out/can’t finish their college
degree or switch to easier “soft”
majors?
 
regarding the UCs specifically, since they are test blind (no SAT or ACT), weighted, capped UC GPA along with certain factors like performance relative to the peers at your specific
high school, being low income or first generation college student are given much greater weight. If your focus is specifically on gaming chances for UC admission, IUSD is probably not the most strategic
move. I’d
recommend attending high school
in Santa Ana or Orange school
districts to be evaulated for “ELC”—excellence in local context. Maybe attend elementary/middle school in IUSD to get a good foundation and switch to Santa Ana for high school.
 
Liar Loan said:
How sad that we limit opportunity for such hard working, smart, and driven people in America. That's not the way it should be.
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what’s sad is that the current system encourages Asian Americans to
view each other as foes/competition and sows division, as opposed to
other minority groups which are encouraged to stand together with solidarity.
 
misme said:
what’s sad is that the current system encourages Asian Americans to
view each other as foes/competition and sows division, as opposed to
other minority groups which are encouraged to stand together with solidarity.
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Is that the current system or the parents? The parents seem very unfriendly.
 
Imnotmoving said:
Is that the current system or the parents? The parents seem very unfriendly.
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I think it is the nature of the ultra competitive academic system that makes the parents more stressed both mentally and financially. For decades, I believe many Asian parents believed that the IUSD system was the pathway to prestigious universities and top UC colleges, but the stats show us otherwise.

Imagine being an Asian parent at IUSD pouring thousands and thousands of dollars per month into private tutoring, violin lessons, tennis academies etc. and seeing such a low return on their investment. High school students are stressed taken from one activity to another taking time away from quality family time rarely having a meal together.

It is not that the Parents are unfriendly, it is the stressful competitive nature of the current system.
 
panda said:
I think it is the nature of the ultra competitive academic system that makes the parents more stressed both mentally and financially. For decades, I believe many Asian parents believed that the IUSD system was the pathway to prestigious universities and top UC colleges, but the stats show us otherwise.

Imagine being an Asian parent at IUSD pouring thousands and thousands of dollars per month into private tutoring, violin lessons, tennis academies etc. and seeing such a low return on their investment. High school students are stressed taken from one activity to another taking time away from quality family time rarely having a meal together.

It is not that the Parents are unfriendly, it is the stressful competitive nature of the current system.
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It’s possible, but creating this competitive environment is extremely unhealthy especially for teens. My personal view is all the tutoring, extra activities and clubs are pushed by the parents that seem to be competing with each other. Those kids will go off to college and hopefully create a fulfilling experience without parents hovering and pressuring them. And shame on parents that look at their kids in a return on investment sense.
 
Imnotmoving said:
It’s possible, but creating this competitive environment is extremely unhealthy especially for teens. My personal view is all the tutoring, extra activities and clubs are pushed by the parents that seem to be competing with each other. Those kids will go off to college and hopefully create a fulfilling experience without parents hovering and pressuring them. And shame on parents that look at their kids in a return on investment sense.
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I think you are misunderstanding what I mean by low return on their investment. The problem is with the system, not the parents who are forced to play in the system. A lot of money is poured into private tutoring. Many times the Asian parents don't share the names and number of the good tutors even among their friends due to the competitive nature of the current system. The more affluent parents are, the more resources they have to financially afford all the tutoring, extra actitivities etc. This is unfair for the parents who don't have the financial means.

Yet majority of these students in the system are not in the pathway of prestigious universities and top UC Schools in the IUSD System, but Cal State colleges.
 
panda said:
I think it is the nature of the ultra competitive academic system that makes the parents more stressed both mentally and financially.
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I have to push back on this a little bit. This is a distinctly Asian American phenomenon, imported from the hyper competitive school systems they came from overseas. There are a small percentage of Anglo and other ethnicities that buy into this mindset as well, but it's not embedded culturally like it is in the Asian communities.
 
panda said:
I think it is the nature of the ultra competitive academic system that makes the parents more stressed both mentally and financially. For decades, I believe many Asian parents believed that the IUSD system was the pathway to prestigious universities and top UC colleges, but the stats show us otherwise.

Imagine being an Asian parent at IUSD pouring thousands and thousands of dollars per month into private tutoring, violin lessons, tennis academies etc. and seeing such a low return on their investment. High school students are stressed taken from one activity to another taking time away from quality family time rarely having a meal together.

It is not that the Parents are unfriendly, it is the stressful competitive nature of the current system.
Click to expand...
It’s possible, but creating this competitive environment is extremely unhealthy especially for teens. My personal view is all the tutoring, extra activities and clubs are pushed by the parents that seem to be competing with each other. Those kids will go off to college and hopefully create a fulfilling experience without parents hovering and pressuring them. And shame on parents that look at their kids in a return on investment sense.
 
Imnotmoving said:
Is that the current system or the parents? The parents seem very unfriendly.
Click to expand...
The system compares asians against other asians, or other students at their asian majority high school, so it is fostering this toxic competition, because parents feel their kids are competing just for the spots allotted to asians, because there are set asides for the other demographic “buckets” that colleges have determined are desirable to fulfill their “insitutional priorities”

I agree that it is very toxic. My solution is to encourage my students to attend college overseas and not engage in the ratrace here. In my experience, the true toxicity in HS comes in the travel sports/extracurriculars/research/olympiads arms race, which is theoretically limitless, and engendered by US college holistic admission policies. Other countries are much more straightforward with their requirements. It is not that hard to get a 4.0 here due to grade inflation, that’s why kids are exhausted doing a million and one outside activities to distinguish themselves from everyone else who has a 4.0.
 
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