The Clunker Program Helps only people who own crappy cars.

wendyinoc_IHB

New member
TOO FUNNY



So my boyfriend and I don't owe anything on our cars. My car is a 2003 Honda Accord and his is a 2002 Ford F150. His is considered a clunker and mine is not on the website. So why in the world would we continure to bail out the American Auto Industry??? I even tried a 2000 Honda Accord and its not a clunker.

We could have a better enviroment if we got rid of the bad companys making crappy cars.
 
<blockquote>Generally, trade-in vehicles must get 18 or less MPG (some very large pick-up trucks and cargo vans have different requirements)</blockquote>


Virtually no (if any) recent Honda is going to qualify for that. Plenty of recent trucks and SUVs do though.
 
Could you come up with a more misleading title to your thread Wendy?



Or did you mean "The Clunker Program Helps only people who OWN crappy cars" - which is still a misstatement.



The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins:

1. 1998 Ford Explorer

2. 1997 Ford Explorer

3. 1996 Ford Explorer

4. 1999 Ford Explorer

5. Jeep Grand Cherokee

6. Jeep Cherokee

7. 1995 Ford Explorer

8. 1994 Ford Explorer

9. 1997 Ford Windstar

10. 1999 Dodge Caravan



In 1996, a fairly standard Explorer was right about $30K.
 
So I guess the government gave out a fishy list of what people ended up getting with the free government cash. Maybe because showing us so many SUVs and trucks on the real list might make us wonder if the whole program was actually doing anything besides throwing around free cash:



<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/?postversion=2009080704">http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/?postversion=2009080704</a>
 
[quote author="Oxtail" date=1249782076]So I guess the government gave out a fishy list of what people ended up getting with the free government cash. Maybe because showing us so many SUVs and trucks on the real list might make us wonder if the whole program was actually doing anything besides throwing around free cash:



<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/?postversion=2009080704">http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/autos/cash_for_clunkers_sales/?postversion=2009080704</a></blockquote>


They might of gave out a fishy list of what people BOUGHT, but the subject and the discussion of this thread is what people TRADED IN. Nowhere in this article do they mention what using with the auto subsidy.



Bad user!



If somebody trades in a 15 year old Explorer for a minisuv like an Escape as opposed to a Prius, what do you care? That's got to be a 12-15 MPG improvment.
 
[quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249748081]Could you come up with a more misleading title to your thread Wendy?



Or did you mean "The Clunker Program Helps only people who OWN crappy cars" - which is still a misstatement.



The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins:

1. 1998 Ford Explorer

2. 1997 Ford Explorer

3. 1996 Ford Explorer

4. 1999 Ford Explorer

5. Jeep Grand Cherokee

6. Jeep Cherokee

7. 1995 Ford Explorer

8. 1994 Ford Explorer

9. 1997 Ford Windstar

10. 1999 Dodge Caravan



In 1996, a fairly standard Explorer was right about $30K.</blockquote>


Its not an Explorer. Its called a Ford Exploder.

My business partner at work has one. Its the biggest POS on the planet.

Its been through 4 transmissions and now the Rear end is going. You can hear it from a block away.

Like 80K miles. Air conditioning and heater never work in the proper season.

Paint is fading. Wipers are dead. Interior just falling apart.



Its not a clunker. Its an Exploder.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249809011][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249748081]Could you come up with a more misleading title to your thread Wendy?



Or did you mean "The Clunker Program Helps only people who OWN crappy cars" - which is still a misstatement.



The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins:

1. 1998 Ford Explorer

2. 1997 Ford Explorer

3. 1996 Ford Explorer

4. 1999 Ford Explorer

5. Jeep Grand Cherokee

6. Jeep Cherokee

7. 1995 Ford Explorer

8. 1994 Ford Explorer

9. 1997 Ford Windstar

10. 1999 Dodge Caravan



In 1996, a fairly standard Explorer was right about $30K.</blockquote>


Its not an Explorer. Its called a Ford Exploder.

My business partner at work has one. Its the biggest POS on the planet.

Its been through 4 transmissions and now the Rear end is going. You can hear it from a block away.

Like 80K miles. Air conditioning and heater never work in the proper season.

Paint is fading. Wipers are dead. Interior just falling apart.



Its not a clunker. Its an Exploder.</blockquote>
Haha Tell him to pick up one of those German cars or at the very least one of those Honda or Toyotas.
 
[quote author="bltserv" date=1249809011][quote author="no_vaseline" date=1249748081]Could you come up with a more misleading title to your thread Wendy?



Or did you mean "The Clunker Program Helps only people who OWN crappy cars" - which is still a misstatement.



The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins:

1. 1998 Ford Explorer

2. 1997 Ford Explorer

3. 1996 Ford Explorer

4. 1999 Ford Explorer

5. Jeep Grand Cherokee

6. Jeep Cherokee

7. 1995 Ford Explorer

8. 1994 Ford Explorer

9. 1997 Ford Windstar

10. 1999 Dodge Caravan



In 1996, a fairly standard Explorer was right about $30K.</blockquote>


Its not an Explorer. Its called a Ford Exploder.

My business partner at work has one. Its the biggest POS on the planet.

Its been through 4 transmissions and now the Rear end is going. You can hear it from a block away.

Like 80K miles. Air conditioning and heater never work in the proper season.

Paint is fading. Wipers are dead. Interior just falling apart.



Its not a clunker. Its an Exploder.</blockquote>


Yeah, I think it's the user (or in this case, abuser).



I'm looking for a disc brake rear end out of an Explorer for my Jeep right now. That would be that same trans and 8.8" rear end that Ford has put behind every Mustang and F150 for the past 20 years. Somehow people get them to live behind drag cars with 1000 HP and they aren't up to snuff on an Explorer.



I had one of these "poision" rear ends in my F150 with 200,000 miles that regularly (twice a week) hauled a loaded trailer with 10,000 pounds in it, and hauled 5,000 almost every other day, all day.



I'm not defending them (the Explorer wasn't that great when it was new, I didn't buy one) but the failure rate on the Chevy Blazer was way higher. Notice you don't see any Chevy product getting crushed? It's becasue they already all died. Eat some of this bowtie fans.
 
I think this program is going to hurt Ford and other American car manufacturers the most because of the lost revenue from servicing their crappy cars. It also hurts auto mechanics and poor people who can only afford to buy crappy cars.
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1249870806]I think this program is going to hurt Ford and other American car manufacturers the most because of the lost revenue from servicing their crappy cars. It also hurts auto mechanics and poor people who can only afford to buy crappy cars.</blockquote>


I'm in this business, so let me explain why this is flawed. There is a life cycle on repairing vehicles - in three stages.



The first stage is when a vehicle is new, and the dealer works on it almost exclusively (and rarely) because of warranty. After the warranty expires, the dealership will still get some customer pay work (non warranty repair) but most of the cars that come out of warranty never see the dealership again because the service departments (at most dealerships) are so poorly run and provide such poor value to the end customer. Sorry if the truth hurts, dealership service personal.



The second stage is when slightly older vehicles (36K+, 3 to 8 years old) show up at independent repair shops. Brakes, tires, small coolant leaks, and an occasional big repair (like a head gasket or a transmission). Even here there is a limit to what people will do. Used to be if a car fit into this category and had a repair of more than $1500, it would <em>rarely</em> get repaired, but rather, be traded in if it would move under its own power - reason being the owner didn't have $1500 to do the repair, but if he traded it in, they could get a new car <em>now</em> and with nothing out of pocket (albeit 60 or 72 or 84 months of low low payments). Since this time last year, that has stopped cold <strong>(notice the decline in auto sales)?. </strong>People still weren't doing the repairs (if they didn't have the money before, they REALLY didn't have it now) but I'm seeing it change where folks are coming up with the money <strong>because they still have to get to work somehow</strong>.



The third and last step is the end of life for these vehicles - aka the fleet of Explorers. Most 8 year old cars are worth $3000 or less. The owners are not doing a ton of maintenance on these at repair shops because 1) they don't have the money and 2) because they don't have the money they are driving these cars around till something big breaks or 3) they are dirtball cheapskates bound and determined to get every penny of value out of their car. This car will never get a major repair because it's not cost effective to put a $2000 transmission job in a car with a fair market value of $2000, and thus only very rarely see the inside of a dealership or an independent garage.



In the life cycle of the vehicle, there is a window in the second stage an independent garage can make any money repairing cars. Of course there are exceptions, but not very many.



There are more vehicles in California with active licenses than there are humans in the state. This program gets rid of a MAX 750,000 cars and trucks nationwide. Currently we sell 9.2M units a year. At the peak the industry sold more than 20M a year. There are plenty of beaters for poor people (and dirtbag cheapskates) to drive. And it sunsets on Labor Day, and won't likely ever return in our lifetimes.



<strong>edited for context</strong>
 
</blockquote>I'm in this business, so let me explain why this is flawed. There is a life cycle on repairing vehicles - in three stages.



The third and last step is the end of life for these vehicles - aka the fleet of Explorers. <strong>Most 8 year old cars are worth $3000 or less. The owners are not doing a ton of maintenance on these at repair shops because </strong>1) they don't have the money and 2) because they don't have the money they are driving these cars around till something big breaks or 3)<strong> they are dirtball cheapskates bound and determined to get every penny of value out of their car.</strong> This car will never get a major repair because it's not cost effective to put a $2000 transmission job in a car with a fair market value of $2000, and thus only very rarely see the inside of a dealership or an independent garage.</blockquote>


Haha! You've just described me, my friend!! Although, my wife drive a newer model. I drive a 1996 model, purchase used in 2000. It's now 13 years old. Still runs great but if anything major happens, not going to fix it. I had a bet with my wife that I can fetch 9k for it. So I checked Kelley Blue Book, it says my car is worth 3k!! Needless to say, she laughed in my face. =) But you know, I love my car. My last car had 200k miles on it. No power steering, no radio and no A/C. Just imagine during hot summer days and turning the steering wheel with brute force. Ever make tight turns with brute power? Haha.
 
Just to show how careful I am with my driving. My brakes are over 6 years old and still in good conditions. Everytime I take my car in to check on the brakes. The mechanics all say, "They're still good." =)



How is this done that my brakes are not worn out after 6 years? I never make abrupt braking. I always coast to a red light or stop sign(s), meaning I let go of the gas pedal and lightly brake as I get near the redlight/stop sign. When I make turns I always slow down. On freeways, I look ahead and if I see if there's a traffic jam. I take my foot off the gas pedal and just let my car coast to a slow speed then I brake. By the way, my tires are over 5 years old. =) I love my old car.
 
FWIW, a family friend of mine owns a tire and basic mechanic shop, and they are doing fairly well in this economic situation. Granted, there are bad months, but the good months have been really good, and that is how it is in that biz, it ebbs and flows and hopefully smooths out at the end of the year. Things started to pick up in April, and I thought it was because of tax rebates, but it has remained fairly steady since then. I don't foresee this program affecting their business, because 90% of the cars they work on don't qualify for it.



BTW, part of the reason why they are doing better than some shops, is because I recommended they go cash or credit "no checks" a year ago. They didn't, got burned a little, and have been cash or credit "no checks" for about six months now. I think they still take a few checks from their corporate clients, but only a very select few.
 
[quote author="reason" date=1249910651]Just to show how careful I am with my driving. My brakes are over 6 years old and still in good conditions. Everytime I take my car in to check on the brakes. The mechanics all say, "They're still good." =)



How is this done that my brakes are not worn out after 6 years? I never make abrupt braking. I always coast to a red light or stop sign(s), meaning I let go of the gas pedal and lightly brake as I get near the redlight/stop sign. When I make turns I always slow down. On freeways, I look ahead and if I see if there's a traffic jam. I take my foot off the gas pedal and just let my car coast to a slow speed then I brake. By the way, my tires are over 5 years old. =) I love my old car.</blockquote>
Yeah, but how many miles do you drive a year...hmmm??? It doesn't count if it's 5k miles a year. I rack up about 30k miles a year on both my cars. :p
 
Having unbonded (where the friction material comes off the steel backing plate) two sets of pads on two different older vehicles that looked "fine" I'd be very careful. Pads are cheap. One of the rotors I replaced was $200!
 
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