Subprime Loan Defaults

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DBS_IHB

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<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCNDA15hId5o&refer=home">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCNDA15hId5o&refer=home</a></p>

<p>Just wanted to share what I was reading. It doesn't necessarily reflect OC RE, but can't be unaffected.</p>
 
It sure does reflect OC. <a href="http://www.dqnews.com/RRFor0107.shtm">Notices of default</a> to OC homeowners were up 116% in 4Q 2006 from 4Q 2005. And apparently, people can't pay their <a href="http://blogs.ocregister.com/lansner/archives/2007/02/late_oc_tax_payments_up_again.html">taxes</a> either.
 
The bulls all say "it is different this time." It certainly is. Sub-prime loan defaults are they key component in the perfect storm about to hit the housing market.





Everyone seems to think it will take a recession with massive job losses to cause prices to drop because that was how it happened last time. The job losses were merely the mechanism by which product was forced onto the market last time. It is not the only possible cause of supply being forced onto the market. Large numbers of repossessions can also occur even when people are working, unemployment is low and the economy is growing if people are overextended and unable to make their payment obligations. That is where sub-prime defaults come in. Too many people borrowed too much money on terms that are coming back to haunt them. If fewer people had done this, the market might be able to absorb these repos when they are dumped on the market. Unfortunately, 25% of the market is currently sub-prime, and more than 20% of them are projected to default (a number which is probably underestimated). That is a lot of houses. These houses will be sold at the market and destroy the comps as they go.





As foreclosures go up, the market will go down. Watch the foreclosure numbers: they have already spiked up to levels equaling the early nineties, and they will go much higher.





It's different this time. It's worse.
 
IrvineRenter - Dont you think there's a chance that the fed lower the rate when foreclosure go crazy like in your scenario? wouldn't lower rate make it more affordable for potential buyer and for refinancing? Since Irvine is desirable and more and more families are double income, without massive job loss the pent-up demands is high. Just look at Bay area in the early 2000s, dot-com bust and housing dont crash. People can rent out rooms in their house or find more jobs to keep their house as long as job market is ok. Some will default like you suggest I am just not sure how bad it will be.
 
Red,





If this had begun in 1994 before the crazy lending really go out of control, I would say a Bay area kind of scenario with steady prices might have occurred or maybe something similar to the slow grinding declines of the early 90's. Ordinarily it is difficult for prices to fall in a strong job market because there are always new buyers eager to step in and take out those who lost their jobs. But all of that assumes a reasonable level of prices. When new buyers simply cannot afford to buy at market prices without exotic financing, prices fall. Best case scenario at this point is an early 90's type of slow, steady declines for a very long time.





I don't think the FED will lower rates if foreclosures go crazy, and even if they did, I don't think it would help. The sub-prime loans currently going into foreclosure were originated at historically low interest rates, and many of the loan reset time bombs were originated with teaser rates even lower still. IMO, the FED could lower rates to zero and it wouldn't improve the situation because prices are just too high. Also, it won't help the sub-prime borrower much. Sub-prime enjoyed interest rates that were too low for too long because investors failed to recognize the risks they were taking on. Now that the defaults and foreclosures are rising, the interest rates being charged to sub-prime borrowers will also rise to compensate investors for taking on the added risk. The impact of this will be to effectively eliminate sub-prime borrowers from the marketplace. This will have a strong impact on demand.





Remember, demand is not desirability. Irvine is very desirable, and it will continue to be; however, demand it measured by the amount of dollars buyers are ready, willing and able to put toward housing. By this measure, demand will decline, perhaps precipitously, when sub-prime borrowing costs increase. So when you look at the demand side of the equation, I would agree there is pent up desire, but there is no pent up demand; in fact, there will be a drop off in demand as credit continues to tighten.





As I mentioned in the previous post, it is the supply side of the equation that will force prices down. The dramatic rise in foreclosures to come will overwhelm the dwindling demand. This is why prices will not slowly drift down, but will instead crash down very hard. Further, once this sequence of events gets put in motion, it will take out other marginal borrowers who are treading water. As each buyer sees the market approaching and their equity evaporating, there will be a panic to get out before they go underwater. This panic selling will put even more supply on the market and make buyers even more reluctant to buy. Again, this would not be a problem if people had equity, but they don't. Statistics show home equity in the United States at a record low despite the increase in house prices. Everyone went out and got a HELOC and spent their equity. Just look around at all the BMW's and MB's in driveways around Irvine. Do you really think people make that much money? They would like you to think they do, but government statistics say they don't.





The key statistic to watch to see if this scenario is going to unfold is the number of foreclosures. If I am right, the quarterly foreclosure number will exceed the 1996 peak in the second or third quarter of 2007, and it will show no signs of leveling off. It is a simple prediction to verify, and it won't take very long to see if I am correct.
 
IrvineRenter, I agree. 100%. With your analysis above. Thanks for articulating so clearly a view that I share, and I'm sure many other people share as well.
 
As an additional note, I would like to add something I posted in one of the early threads on this board concerning adjustable rate mortgages. IMO, the overhanging supply caused by adjustable rate mortgages will prevent any appreciation for at least 5 years.





Adjustable rate mortgages (ARM) became popular early in the price rally because payments were lower, so one could take out a larger mortgage and keep the same payment. After a time, conventional 30-year mortgage payments were too high for most buyers, and ARMs became the norm. Most of these ARMs have either a 3 year or a 5 years fixed rate followed by a “reset” where the rate adjusts to current market conditions. Most of these loans were originated during a period of historic low interest rates, meaning most mortgage holders will see an increase in payments at the time of reset. Convention wisdom at the time was that these borrowers would simply refinance into another low fixed rate at the time of reset and avoid any real payment shock. However, reality is that refinancing may not be an option in the future as credit standards will tighten, and/or the property may be worth less than the loan. Once a borrower is unable to refinance, it is only a matter of time before implosion. In these circumstances (which will be common over the next several years) at the time of reset borrowers will face a choice: sell and take a loss, or make a much larger payment. Borrowers may not be able to do either one. This will usually result in bankruptcy for the borrower after a foreclosure and another house added to the “for sale” inventory. The bank will sell at the market: there is no “holding out for a wishing price” in bank repossessions.





I have been considering the impact adjustable rate mortgages will have on the coming market slide. The above “reset implosion” scenario will occur over and over again forcing product on to the market until the last of the 5 year ARMs issued in 2006 has imploded. This will create an overhanging supply in the market for the next 5 years. Once this process gains some momentum, it will continue unabated until the supply of ARMs is exhausted. No dead-cat bounce will gain enough traction to make a dent in this overhanging supply. That puts the market bottom in 2012. With 60% of those resets occurring in the next 2 years, you will likely see two years of steep drops followed by 3 years of small drops with some leveling off. By then, nobody will want to own real estate: then, and only then, will it truly be a good time to buy.
 
IrvineRenter - Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I must say it is a pretty depressing outlook. Not sure if you are referring to national or just local Irvine/SoCal housing. In either case, if your scenario really comes true I would imagine the economy must then be in great depression with many businesses (not just real estate) struggling to survive. So perhaps the housing will hit bottom with blood in street pricing but perhaps half of the people reading this blog might loose their job too.
 
Red,





Surprisingly enough, I am not that bearish on the whole economy. IMO, a crash in housing can be limited to housing as long as people don't quit spending; however, if a crash in housing frightens people into saving and they stop spending, we could have a recession. Part of the reason I don't think this will happen is because people who lose their houses will also lose the huge payment obligations taking away all their spending money. It will be heartbreaking as they get evicted from their homes, but they will move into an affordable rental and have disposable income again. The cumulative impact on the economy of this "freeing" of disposable income will be positive. The sector of the economy most likely to get hurt severely is the financial services sector: banks, mutual funds, hedge funds, etc. All of the investors in these mortgage obligations will face major losses. In the grand scheme of things, they will just write it off and move on.





I read a lot of doom and gloom from permabears who are convinced we will face economic armageddon. For some it is just their personality. I am bearish when it is warranted, and I am bullish when it is warranted. I am cautiously bullish on stocks right now because I see a lot of liquidity flowing into that market. It is due for a minor correction, but my medium term view on the stock market is bullish. I share this with you to show I am not some bearish crackpot that found an audience in bearish housing blogs.





In short, I think housing, particularly in the bubble markets on the coasts, is going to get slaughtered. The rest of the economy will probably slow down, perhaps tip into a minor recession, but it should fair well. As for our very local market in Irvine, it will probably do somewhat better than other areas, but it too will be severely impacted.
 
<p>I don't find anything depressing about the scenerio IrvineRenter outlined. Just because someone gets foreclosed due to an ARM reset on doesn't mean that they will loose their job. The only direct hit to the economy I can see is the decreased wealth effect of homeowners on consumer spending. And even this can be cushioned a great deal because the vast majority of foreclosures end up being non-recouse (the borrower doesn't have to make up the difference between the loan amount and what the foreclosed home eventually sells for). Home prices here in So-Cal declined significantly between 1992 and 1997, even as the ecomony was pretty good. I believe the peak year for foreclosures was 1995 or 1996, a time when the economy outside of housing was doing quite well.</p>

<p>Remember, lower prices are good for almost everyone. This includes existing homeowners, who benefit from lower taxes, lower transaction costs from moving, and less money needed to move up to a better home.</p>

<p> </p>
 
Isn't recent economy boom is fuel by housing. And as somebody pointed out equity is at its lowest and also savings. If a crash harder then the 90's, the price must be down by 40% or more? $150 per sqft right? This will surely bring down economy dont you think? No more equity to spend, no more wealth effect. Come on guys... at least you got to say the BMW's and MB's dealership must also be struggling right? Sorry but I really can't see how a housing crash that bad this time around can be isolated from the rest of economy. It might be a great time for investment after the crash but economy must be in major recession.
 
There definitely are some very smart people who agree with you. You are probably right about the wealth effect being bigger this time. My opinion is that the evidence is not conclusive either way; we'll just have to wait and see.
 
<p>irvinerenter: <em>"...you will likely see two years of steep drops followed by 3 years of small drops with some leveling off. By then, nobody will want to own real estate: then, and only then, will it truly be a good time to buy."</em></p>

<p>Amen! This is not just wishful thinking... It appears to be supported by many other economic observers as well.</p>
 
<p>It is funny how everyone wants to compare this market with the 90's. The bulls will say it's different this time because we don't have the job losses like we did then. Most were in manufacturing and now we have increases in manufacturing probably from Ceradyne. Well if you look at the numbers of people losing jobs the number wasn't that really that bad for that long and if housing prices weren't so inflated the drop wouldn't have been so brutal. I agree with irvinerenter that we are walking on thin ice in that if spending or job growth slows then look out. Even back then if you look at what the issues were when the slowdown began affordability was the number one issue. </p>

<p>Now let me add some fire to irvinerenter's ARM scenario. The Fed and 10 year yield do not indicate where mortgage interest rates are or are going. The majority of mortgage loans are sold off as mortgage backed securities (MBS) and just like any security (security being the keyword much like a bond) they are sold at a price in which the buyers are willing to pay. For example on Thursday FNMA 30 yr 5.5% coupon was down 22 basis points (down in price means rate is up or not good) while the 10 year yield was only down 2 BPS. Next the 2nd half of the year 2006 B - or subprime grade is down about 700 BPS in one month and all the other B subprime grade MBS are down 200-500 BPS as well. This means that the buyers of MBS don't want them unless they are getting a better investment with either better quality loans or higher interest rates. Either way the borrower who got what he has now two years ago will not get anything near that today. Provided the borrowers situation hasn't changed or it could be better or worse. Now we have the crunch that irvinerenter is talking about when the resets hit and on subprime loans that means their rate will jump by 5% or more. What can the Fed do to help this situation? Lower rates? If the investment isn't going to be profitable then investors will not buy it. </p>

<p>I also agree with irvinerenter in that there are times and markets to be bullish and times and markets to be bearish. You can make money either way. I remain cautiously bullish on the economy as a whole and I watch and read every little indicator out there. One day I get more cautious then the next something comes out and I am put at more of ease. I love this quote from Warren Buffett and if you think of the real professional housing investors it holds too true today. </p>

<p>"When the wise leave, only the fools are left."</p>
 
<p>In case people haven't heard yet, <a href="http://www.mlnusa.com/default.aspx">Mortgage Lenders Network</a> filed for Chapter 11 <a href="http://www.courant.com/business/hc-mln0205,0,2074969.story?coll=hc-headlines-home">bankruptcy</a> protection today...</p>

<p><em>"Mortgage Lenders also faces the prospect of class-action lawsuits from angry salespeople who have not been paid commissions for November and December. Some employees say they have not received incentive pay already earned and have been told by the company not to expect it."</em></p>
 
<p>Wow! I would have to work my butt off for a paycheck and then not receive it. I'd just probably leave at that point and find another job.</p>

<p>-bix</p>
 
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/05/AR2007020501415.html">Some FB's might get their money back.</a>





If an FB can prove they were misled, they might be able to get out of their Option ARM loans. This is really bad news for the sub-prime mortgage industry.
 
<p>This just in from Bloomberg.com... <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ar.WRLz45vtA&refer=home">HSBC Says Bad-Loan Charges to Exceed Analysts' Estimates by 20%</a>.


</p>

<p><em>"HSBC, the world's No. 3 bank by market value after New York- based Citigroup Inc. and Charlotte, North Carolina-based Bank of America Corp., bought Household International Inc. for $15.5 billion in 2003. The purchase of the Prospect Heights, Illinois- based company, a lender to consumers with lower-than-average credit ratings, left HSBC more vulnerable a slowdown in house price growth."</em></p>

<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ar.WRLz45vtA&refer=home">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ar.WRLz45vtA&refer=home</a></p>

<p> </p>
 
<p>Just to append <a href="http://forums.irvinehousingblog.com/account/40/">crucialtaunt</a>'s mention of HSBC:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aE_Kw1.DmD7s&refer=home">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aE_Kw1.DmD7s&refer=home</a> </p>
 
<p>Thanks DBS. It is interesting to read just the quotes out in context:</p>

<p><em>"If you could fog a mirror, you could get a loan.'' </em></p>

<p><em>"That market's going to get worse before it gets better.''</em></p>

<p><em>"There's a lot of camouflaging going on in credit quality,...'' </em></p>

<p><em>"I got the sense that they're saying we're just at the start of this thing,...'' </em></p>

<p>and here's the firedrill (hut-hut):</p>

<p><em>"...more banks tightened lending standards in the past three months than in any quarter since the early 1990s, the survey said."</em></p>
 
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