Stock Market Day-Trading Discussion Thread

[jbatzmaru_IHB]

I did buy AA, C and BBY at the end of today to join CSCO and XOM.

Slowly shifting portfolio towards long-term with covered calls and S&P puts for protection.

Oh and AAPL.

It's none of my business, but is the AA intended to be a long term holding?

All of them are. I'm still bearish, but slowly accumulating various positions and writing calls for steady income. If any of them move 25% upwards they are out of my portfolio...So if AA moves up 25% tomorrow? I won't be long anymore on it.

Plus the these long holdings make up about 20% of my portfolio.

DOW still goes to 7K imo.

I'm suprised you asked if AA is long and not C. C will probably never move back to the same level it was before.

i thought buying airline stock is the worse thing you can do? Why do you think that C will never move back to the same level? what is your reasoning on this?

 

[WINEX_IHB]

I did buy AA, C and BBY at the end of today to join CSCO and XOM.

Slowly shifting portfolio towards long-term with covered calls and S&P puts for protection.

Oh and AAPL.

It's none of my business, but is the AA intended to be a long term holding?

All of them are. I'm still bearish, but slowly accumulating various positions and writing calls for steady income. If any of them move 25% upwards they are out of my portfolio...So if AA moves up 25% tomorrow? I won't be long anymore on it.

Plus the these long holdings make up about 20% of my portfolio.

DOW still goes to 7K imo.

I'm suprised you asked if AA is long and not C. C will probably never move back to the same level it was before.

The reason I asked about AA specifically is because I find that stock interesting for a long term position at these levels. I'm not really interested in C at this point. Also, just for clarification, I was interested if it was intended as a long term holding (as opposed to a day trade or swing trade)

Also, is that 25% goal truly independent of time? I can understand taking profit if it moved up 25% tomorrow, but what if it was relatively flat for the next 5 years, then started soaring? Also, do you set downside targets? i.e. if it falls 10% you are out of there?

More me, trades are different from investments, and I never let one become the other. (i.e a trade become an investment, or an investment become a trade)

If I am making a trade, then I set profit goals, loss limits, and time limits for the trade to earn it's keep or be gone.

But an investment is a different animal. For investments, I try to understand the value of a company and when the price exceeds my estimate of value by a comfortable margin, I move on.

 

[WINEX_IHB]

I did buy AA, C and BBY at the end of today to join CSCO and XOM.

Slowly shifting portfolio towards long-term with covered calls and S&P puts for protection.

Oh and AAPL.

It's none of my business, but is the AA intended to be a long term holding?

All of them are. I'm still bearish, but slowly accumulating various positions and writing calls for steady income. If any of them move 25% upwards they are out of my portfolio...So if AA moves up 25% tomorrow? I won't be long anymore on it.

Plus the these long holdings make up about 20% of my portfolio.

DOW still goes to 7K imo.

I'm suprised you asked if AA is long and not C. C will probably never move back to the same level it was before.

i thought buying airline stock is the worse thing you can do? Why do you think that C will never move back to the same level? what is your reasoning on this?

AA = Alcoa Aluminum.

Though the stock has slowed with the global economy, they are well positioned in a vital industry. It looks pretty cheap right now and will come back eventually.

 

[usctrojanman29_IHB]

Picked up 5 Dec 32.50 Puts on HPQ @ $2.55. Their pre-announcement on earnings smells a bit, stock shot up over 15%. They may have had a decent quarter, but no way that they don't cut their 2009 earnings estimates. I think the stock takes a huge hit on their earnings release.

 

[usctrojanman29_IHB]

Picked up 5 Nov QQQQ 28 Calls as it looked like the market was rallying @ $1.14. On my way to work, the market decides that it's gonna take a dump so I'd down a few hundred on the calls. I decide instead of dumping the calls and taking my loss, I'll set up a small straddle play. So I picked up 6 Nov QQQQ 28 Puts @ $.88. Let's see what happens...

 

[jbenko_IHB]

Going to buy MT, FRO and ANF with covered calls towards the end today.

SO much bad news came out last week and some this week already and yet the market is resistant to tank. I thought about it over the weekend and I believe everybody is expecting the worst of the worst already so its hard to come out with news to make it even worse than it really is. If the market hasn't gone down significantly not sure what will push it there. So unless something catastrophic comes out, I don't think this market will tank. It might slowly drift its way down to 7500, or it might just drift around here.

That being said, I'm going to continue to build my long position with protection.

 

[usctrojanman29_IHB]

Going to buy MT, FRO and ANF with covered calls towards the end today.

SO much bad news came out last week and some this week already and yet the market is resistant to tank. I thought about it over the weekend and I believe everybody is expecting the worst of the worst already so its hard to come out with news to make it even worse than it really is. If the market hasn't gone down significantly not sure what will push it there. So unless something catastrophic comes out, I don't think this market will tank. It might slowly drift its way down to 7500, or it might just drift around here.

That being said, I'm going to continue to build my long position with protection.

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the market start to rally at 12pm. I dumped my HPQ puts for a small loss and the 6 QQQQ at a small loss. I am still holding onto those 5 QQQQ calls probably through tomorrow since they expire on Friday.

 

[jbenko_IHB]

I did buy AA, C and BBY at the end of today to join CSCO and XOM.

Slowly shifting portfolio towards long-term with covered calls and S&P puts for protection.

Oh and AAPL.

It's none of my business, but is the AA intended to be a long term holding?

All of them are. I'm still bearish, but slowly accumulating various positions and writing calls for steady income. If any of them move 25% upwards they are out of my portfolio...So if AA moves up 25% tomorrow? I won't be long anymore on it.

Plus the these long holdings make up about 20% of my portfolio.

DOW still goes to 7K imo.

I'm suprised you asked if AA is long and not C. C will probably never move back to the same level it was before.

The reason I asked about AA specifically is because I find that stock interesting for a long term position at these levels. I'm not really interested in C at this point. Also, just for clarification, I was interested if it was intended as a long term holding (as opposed to a day trade or swing trade)

Also, is that 25% goal truly independent of time? I can understand taking profit if it moved up 25% tomorrow, but what if it was relatively flat for the next 5 years, then started soaring? Also, do you set downside targets? i.e. if it falls 10% you are out of there?

More me, trades are different from investments, and I never let one become the other. (i.e a trade become an investment, or an investment become a trade)

If I am making a trade, then I set profit goals, loss limits, and time limits for the trade to earn it's keep or be gone.

But an investment is a different animal. For investments, I try to understand the value of a company and when the price exceeds my estimate of value by a comfortable margin, I move on.

AA has great value imo. However, I don't think it goes to 40-50 a share that it was prior. You do have to remember we had a commodity bubble. However AA going to 20 a share isn't out of reach. When i say I'd dump if it jumps 25% in one day I mean just that. Because the likelyhood of it pulling back some of that gain and allowing me to rebuy is pretty good. I never pass up a 25% interest gain in one day. Like I said though, I'm mainly looking for steady growth and a position where I can write calls. If I can write calls slightly out of money and collect that premium and get a small appreciation on the stock I'm good.

As far as it being relatively flat for next 5 years...that would be ok with me. I can get about 6-7% premium each month with covered calls. It would be a dream come true if it stayed flat for 5 years. Thats a guaranteed 70-90% return a year. Its important to write calls or even buy puts when you expect things get rocky to capture additional gains.

I don't sell a company ever on a 10% downturn or whatever the number. I do my research and If I like the company I'll stick with it unless research tells me otherwise. So if a company fell 10% or more on a regular trading day or two...I'll simply buy more. I don't let market movements dictate my position. At the same time the stock could be soaring and if I found something I didn't like...I'll dump. I won't take risk. So I base my buys/sells on my evaluation of their business vs what the market dictates.

I also happen to be a big contrarian when I trade. I usually will look for moments where I'll do opposite of what others do. When DOW shot up to 9200 and kept going up...I shorted...right now people are selling...I started buying. Many times I'm wrong, but I've been right more times than wrong otherwise I wouldn't do what I do.

 

[WINEX_IHB]

I did buy AA, C and BBY at the end of today to join CSCO and XOM.

Slowly shifting portfolio towards long-term with covered calls and S&P puts for protection.

Oh and AAPL.

It's none of my business, but is the AA intended to be a long term holding?

All of them are. I'm still bearish, but slowly accumulating various positions and writing calls for steady income. If any of them move 25% upwards they are out of my portfolio...So if AA moves up 25% tomorrow? I won't be long anymore on it.

Plus the these long holdings make up about 20% of my portfolio.

DOW still goes to 7K imo.

I'm suprised you asked if AA is long and not C. C will probably never move back to the same level it was before.

The reason I asked about AA specifically is because I find that stock interesting for a long term position at these levels. I'm not really interested in C at this point. Also, just for clarification, I was interested if it was intended as a long term holding (as opposed to a day trade or swing trade)

Also, is that 25% goal truly independent of time? I can understand taking profit if it moved up 25% tomorrow, but what if it was relatively flat for the next 5 years, then started soaring? Also, do you set downside targets? i.e. if it falls 10% you are out of there?

More me, trades are different from investments, and I never let one become the other. (i.e a trade become an investment, or an investment become a trade)

If I am making a trade, then I set profit goals, loss limits, and time limits for the trade to earn it's keep or be gone.

But an investment is a different animal. For investments, I try to understand the value of a company and when the price exceeds my estimate of value by a comfortable margin, I move on.

AA has great value imo. However, I don't think it goes to 40-50 a share that it was prior. You do have to remember we had a commodity bubble. However AA going to 20 a share isn't out of reach. When i say I'd dump if it jumps 25% in one day I mean just that. Because the likelyhood of it pulling back some of that gain and allowing me to rebuy is pretty good. I never pass up a 25% interest gain in one day. Like I said though, I'm mainly looking for steady growth and a position where I can write calls. If I can write calls slightly out of money and collect that premium and get a small appreciation on the stock I'm good.

As far as it being relatively flat for next 5 years...that would be ok with me. I can get about 6-7% premium each month with covered calls. It would be a dream come true if it stayed flat for 5 years. Thats a guaranteed 70-90% return a year. Its important to write calls or even buy puts when you expect things get rocky to capture additional gains.

I don't sell a company ever on a 10% downturn or whatever the number. I do my research and If I like the company I'll stick with it unless research tells me otherwise. So if a company fell 10% or more on a regular trading day or two...I'll simply buy more. I don't let market movements dictate my position. At the same time the stock could be soaring and if I found something I didn't like...I'll dump. I won't take risk. So I base my buys/sells on my evaluation of their business vs what the market dictates.

I also happen to be a big contrarian when I trade. I usually will look for moments where I'll do opposite of what others do. When DOW shot up to 9200 and kept going up...I shorted...right now people are selling...I started buying. Many times I'm wrong, but I've been right more times than wrong otherwise I wouldn't do what I do.

Thanks. With AA, I believe a lot of what it gets to depends on the timeframe. I think that people who buy now will be very happy 10 years from now if they are still holding.

 

[WestparkRenter_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

 

[jbenko_IHB]

I'll still do it I guess we are on our way to 7k.

Just make sure you have cash on the side. If you contribute to 401k's don't contribute where you are directly buying. Have your cash sit on the sidelines because if you think 8K is low, 5K isn't out of reach either.

In otherwords don't have a 3% drop in the market and then use cash to cost average as its pretty insignificant.

 

[WestparkRenter_IHB]

I'll still do it I guess we are on our way to 7k.

Just make sure you have cash on the side. If you contribute to 401k's don't contribute where you are directly buying. Have your cash sit on the sidelines because if you think 8K is low, 5K isn't out of reach either.

In otherwords don't have a 3% drop in the market and then use cash to cost average as its pretty insignificant.

I do have cash on the side.

 

[usctrojanman29_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

I'll post up as much as I can. Work gets in the way a little bit. hahaha

I sold my 5 Nov QQQQ calls for a slight loss this morning and picked up 10 NOV 30 QQQQ puts which I sold at around 12:50pm (I have a bad habit of selling too early, but at least I locked in about $500 in profit). I also sold 20 UNCOVERED NOV 70 GS calls @ $.32 so I can make about $600 if they expire worthless on Friday (I did play a stop order $1.30 so I don't lose my ass if things skyrocket in the next few days).

 

[jbenko_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

I'll post up as much as I can. Work gets in the way a little bit. hahaha

I sold my 5 Nov QQQQ calls for a slight loss this morning and picked up 10 NOV 30 QQQQ puts which I sold at around 12:50pm (I have a bad habit of selling too early, but at least I locked in about $500 in profit). I also sold 20 UNCOVERED NOV 70 GS calls @ $.32 so I can make about $600 if they expire worthless on Friday (I did play a stop order $1.30 so I don't lose my ass if things skyrocket in the next few days).

LOL. You are a crazy man. I've traded daily for 10 years and not once did I sell an uncovered call let alone 20. Especially on a stock like GS. Goldman can move 10-15 on a big rally easy. I guess you have a stop loss, thats good so your losses would be limited to 2,600 with a max gain of 600.

I'll pray for you...seriously. I'll give you 82% probability you make $600.

Sounds tempting though...maybe I should engage in uncovered call activity....easy cash eh?

Lets see...sell 100,000 uncovered calls of GS...YUM

 

[awgee_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

I'll post up as much as I can. Work gets in the way a little bit. hahaha

I sold my 5 Nov QQQQ calls for a slight loss this morning and picked up 10 NOV 30 QQQQ puts which I sold at around 12:50pm (I have a bad habit of selling too early, but at least I locked in about $500 in profit). I also sold 20 UNCOVERED NOV 70 GS calls @ $.32 so I can make about $600 if they expire worthless on Friday (I did play a stop order $1.30 so I don't lose my ass if things skyrocket in the next few days).

LOL. You are a crazy man. I've traded daily for 10 years and not once did I sell an uncovered call let alone 20. Especially on a stock like GS. Goldman can move 10-15 on a big rally easy. I guess you have a stop loss, thats good so your losses would be limited to 2,600 with a max gain of 600.

I'll pray for you...seriously. I'll give you 82% probability you make $600.

Sounds tempting though...maybe I should engage in uncovered call activity....easy cash eh?

Lets see...sell 100,000 uncovered calls of GS...YUM

Stops are not guaranteed and losses from selling non-covered calls are not limited.

When I wish to sell calls I buy the next incremental call to limit any potential loss. Losses are limited to the increment between the spread and the credit and the gain is limited to the difference between my sell and buy price. For an in depth, look up "bear call spread".

 

[ocrebel_IHB]

Right now my strategy is still to be short in the next month or so (or longer once more economic data comes through) but I'm also starting to build a long position slowly. For example, I purchased 2000 shares of Intel, 1500 shares of Arcerol Mittal, 200 shares of Burlington Northern and 500 shares of Best Buy and immediately wrote December covered calls to give myself some cushion.

based on my EW count, next week marks trade-able multi-month bottom.

Economy is in for a long and deep slump, ultimate bottom will happen in 2009.

I will start gradually buying SSO and UYG as soon as we break below 80 in SPY. I expect the bottom in 75~80 area. Once it's confirmed I will load up the boat. IMHO, the rally, though choppy and violent, will last few months into Obama's inauguration.

anybody cares to share his/her strategy?

 

[usctrojanman29_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

I'll post up as much as I can. Work gets in the way a little bit. hahaha

I sold my 5 Nov QQQQ calls for a slight loss this morning and picked up 10 NOV 30 QQQQ puts which I sold at around 12:50pm (I have a bad habit of selling too early, but at least I locked in about $500 in profit). I also sold 20 UNCOVERED NOV 70 GS calls @ $.32 so I can make about $600 if they expire worthless on Friday (I did play a stop order $1.30 so I don't lose my ass if things skyrocket in the next few days).

LOL. You are a crazy man. I've traded daily for 10 years and not once did I sell an uncovered call let alone 20. Especially on a stock like GS. Goldman can move 10-15 on a big rally easy. I guess you have a stop loss, thats good so your losses would be limited to 2,600 with a max gain of 600.

I'll pray for you...seriously. I'll give you 82% probability you make $600.

Sounds tempting though...maybe I should engage in uncovered call activity....easy cash eh?

Lets see...sell 100,000 uncovered calls of GS...YUM

At close those calls had a bid of $.12 and ask of $.17 so looks good for far. The stock would have to rise over 27% from today's close in order for me to get a loss. I like how you can only end up paying one side of the transaction cost on picking up these out of the money options.

 

[jbenko_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

I'll post up as much as I can. Work gets in the way a little bit. hahaha

I sold my 5 Nov QQQQ calls for a slight loss this morning and picked up 10 NOV 30 QQQQ puts which I sold at around 12:50pm (I have a bad habit of selling too early, but at least I locked in about $500 in profit). I also sold 20 UNCOVERED NOV 70 GS calls @ $.32 so I can make about $600 if they expire worthless on Friday (I did play a stop order $1.30 so I don't lose my ass if things skyrocket in the next few days).

LOL. You are a crazy man. I've traded daily for 10 years and not once did I sell an uncovered call let alone 20. Especially on a stock like GS. Goldman can move 10-15 on a big rally easy. I guess you have a stop loss, thats good so your losses would be limited to 2,600 with a max gain of 600.

I'll pray for you...seriously. I'll give you 82% probability you make $600.

Sounds tempting though...maybe I should engage in uncovered call activity....easy cash eh?

Lets see...sell 100,000 uncovered calls of GS...YUM

Stops are not guaranteed and losses from selling non-covered calls are not limited.

When I wish to sell calls I buy the next incremental call to limit any potential loss. Losses are limited to the increment between the spread and the credit and the gain is limited to the difference between my sell and buy price. For an in depth, look up "bear call spread".

Yeah I was being sarcastic. I'll never engage in that.

If I was you USCtrojan. I would set stops earlier and watch it like a hawk so you can cover to buy instantly.

I can just see DOW soar 1,000 pts and then Buffett announces he is going to buy 5 billion more worth of GS stock. I would crap my pants.

But I still bet you make good on it. Plus don't you have 100K in trading for cushion? To absorb your loss? LOL jk.

 

[usctrojanman29_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

I'll post up as much as I can. Work gets in the way a little bit. hahaha

I sold my 5 Nov QQQQ calls for a slight loss this morning and picked up 10 NOV 30 QQQQ puts which I sold at around 12:50pm (I have a bad habit of selling too early, but at least I locked in about $500 in profit). I also sold 20 UNCOVERED NOV 70 GS calls @ $.32 so I can make about $600 if they expire worthless on Friday (I did play a stop order $1.30 so I don't lose my ass if things skyrocket in the next few days).

LOL. You are a crazy man. I've traded daily for 10 years and not once did I sell an uncovered call let alone 20. Especially on a stock like GS. Goldman can move 10-15 on a big rally easy. I guess you have a stop loss, thats good so your losses would be limited to 2,600 with a max gain of 600.

I'll pray for you...seriously. I'll give you 82% probability you make $600.

Sounds tempting though...maybe I should engage in uncovered call activity....easy cash eh?

Lets see...sell 100,000 uncovered calls of GS...YUM

Stops are not guaranteed and losses from selling non-covered calls are not limited.

When I wish to sell calls I buy the next incremental call to limit any potential loss. Losses are limited to the increment between the spread and the credit and the gain is limited to the difference between my sell and buy price. For an in depth, look up "bear call spread".

Yeah I was being sarcastic. I'll never engage in that.

If I was you USCtrojan. I would set stops earlier and watch it like a hawk so you can cover to buy instantly.

I can just see DOW soar 1,000 pts and then Buffett announces he is going to buy 5 billion more worth of GS stock. I would crap my pants.

But I still bet you make good on it. Plus don't you have 100K in trading for cushion? To absorb your loss? LOL jk.

Oh believe me, it'll be looking at every tick. haha I was looking at various stocks to sell uncovered calls like GOOG, AAPL, RIMM, etc and GS had the highest implied volatility (over 150). Yeah, I have over $50k in my trading account which is all cash now other than this sold calls and I have another $50k in a CD.

 

[jbenko_IHB]

Who's going to give us trading tips when black_vault goes back to work?

The market is dropping 300+ as of I'm typing.

EDIT. It's down 400 point as I type.

I'll post up as much as I can. Work gets in the way a little bit. hahaha

I sold my 5 Nov QQQQ calls for a slight loss this morning and picked up 10 NOV 30 QQQQ puts which I sold at around 12:50pm (I have a bad habit of selling too early, but at least I locked in about $500 in profit). I also sold 20 UNCOVERED NOV 70 GS calls @ $.32 so I can make about $600 if they expire worthless on Friday (I did play a stop order $1.30 so I don't lose my ass if things skyrocket in the next few days).

LOL. You are a crazy man. I've traded daily for 10 years and not once did I sell an uncovered call let alone 20. Especially on a stock like GS. Goldman can move 10-15 on a big rally easy. I guess you have a stop loss, thats good so your losses would be limited to 2,600 with a max gain of 600.

I'll pray for you...seriously. I'll give you 82% probability you make $600.

Sounds tempting though...maybe I should engage in uncovered call activity....easy cash eh?

Lets see...sell 100,000 uncovered calls of GS...YUM

Stops are not guaranteed and losses from selling non-covered calls are not limited.

When I wish to sell calls I buy the next incremental call to limit any potential loss. Losses are limited to the increment between the spread and the credit and the gain is limited to the difference between my sell and buy price. For an in depth, look up "bear call spread".

Yeah I was being sarcastic. I'll never engage in that.

If I was you USCtrojan. I would set stops earlier and watch it like a hawk so you can cover to buy instantly.

I can just see DOW soar 1,000 pts and then Buffett announces he is going to buy 5 billion more worth of GS stock. I would crap my pants.

But I still bet you make good on it. Plus don't you have 100K in trading for cushion? To absorb your loss? LOL jk.

Oh believe me, it'll be looking at every tick. haha I was looking at various stocks to sell uncovered calls like GOOG, AAPL, RIMM, etc and GS had the highest implied volatility (over 150). Yeah, I have over $50k in my trading account which is all cash now other than this sold calls and I have another $50k in a CD.

Haha. I love it. I'll be cheering you on man.