Senators want homebuyer tax credit to rise to $15k

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Not sure if this should go in the Headlines sticky or here.



<a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20670001&sid=aI3l8W6tflrg">Story</a>



Senators Want Homebuyer Tax Credit to Rise to $15,000 (Update2)



By Dawn Kopecki



June 10 (Bloomberg) -- Lawmakers are pushing to revive legislation in the Senate that would almost double an $8,000 tax credit for first-time homebuyers and expand the program to all borrowers.



Senator Johnny Isakson, a Georgia Republican, introduced a bill today that would increase the tax credit to $15,000 and remove income and other restrictions on who can qualify, according to his spokeswoman, Sheridan Watson. The Treasury Department declined to comment on the proposal.



The legislation, co-sponsored by Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, would extend the homebuyer credit to multifamily properties used as the borrower?s primary residence. It would also eliminate income caps of $75,000 and $150,000 on individuals and couples seeking to claim the credit.



?The housing market continues to be a drag on the economy, John Castellani, president of the Washington-based Business Roundtable, said in a telephone interview today. ?We believe that if we don?t stabilize this vital sector, we can?t turn the tide on the recession.?



The Business Roundtable represents more than 100 chief executive officers including General Electric Co.?s Jeffrey Immelt and Exxon Mobil Corp.?s Rex Tillerson. The group and the National Association of Realtors are pushing to expand the tax credit and to lower mortgage rates to revive the housing market.



For All Borrowers



?One of the biggest problems facing the American people today is an illiquid housing market, a decline in their equity, a decline in their net worth and a depression in the housing market that we are obligated to correct if we possibly can,? Isakson said in a statement. Isakson said his legislation would spur demand in the housing market by giving homeowners the incentive to trade up to a more expensive home.



The bill would extend the tax credit, which now applies to homes purchased from Jan. 1 to Dec. 1, 2009, to one year after the new measure is signed into law, according to Watson. Isakson?s bill would make the credit available to all borrowers, not only borrowers who haven?t owned a home in the previous three years as is the case under current law. It would also let borrowers divide the credit over two years. The legislation wouldn?t be applied retroactively to purchases completed before the date of enactment, Watson said.



The bill is co-sponsored by Republican Senators Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, David Vitter of Louisiana, James Risch of Idaho, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, John Ensign of Nevada and Jim Bunning of Kentucky, according to a statement from Isakson.



Senator Joseph Lieberman, a Connecticut independent, has also signed on to the bill, according to the statement.



Mortgage Rates



The Business Roundtable and Realtors group also recommended the Federal Reserve continue to purchase mortgage securities guaranteed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and government mortgage bond insurer Ginnie Mae to drive down mortgage rates to less than 5 percent.



The Fed is about a third of the way through its $1.25 trillion commitment, holding $427.6 billion of mortgage debt backed by the government-sponsored enterprises as of June 3, according to the New York Federal Reserve.



The average rate on a 30-year fixed-rate U.S. mortgage jumped last week to the highest level since November, rising to 5.57 percent from 5.25 percent the prior week, according to data released today by the Mortgage Bankers Association. [/code]
 
[quote author="HB_Renter" date=1244787296]nice. Let's just keep propping up a deflated bubble.



God damn.</blockquote>
Fockers just can't let things get over with, but have to drag things out with stupid ideas like these. Nice to know my tax money continues to be wasted. I might just take the gov't up on grabbing my share of this pie if they have it out there for taking in the next few years.
 
I don't think we should be surprised. Propping up home values and giving more people incentives to become home owners will win votes for politicians, regardless of what anyone thinks "should happen" in the housing market...Let's not pretend our government is above bribing citizens with their own money.



With the government elbow deep in the banking system now, it wouldn't surprise me if they more overtly controlled the open market inventory of REOs. Along with telling banks who've accepted government money just how many homes those banks can release on the open market, they could get really creative. Maybe they will see fit to offer incentives to large pools of investors who buy huge blocks of REO homes directly from banks before they hit the open market...maybe make the incentives contingent on the investors fixing them up, renting them out, and not reselling them for X number of years.



While I know it may not be a popular opinion here, I have to wonder if we're overestimating price drops below current levels. After all, it seems like much of that argument assumes laissez-faire capitalism...and right now we're far from it.



I'm by no means an expert...but I think we should at least consider the possibility that outside forces will prevent further HUGE declines. Completely ignoring that possibility seems just as short sided as a 2005 home buyer thinking his home's value would never drop.
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1244788477]Why stop there? Let's make the entire purchase price tax deductible.</blockquote>


With a bit of luck, it will be $30,000 by the time we are ready to buy.
 
[quote author="Cuatro" date=1244808272]I don't think we should be surprised. Propping up home values and giving more people incentives to become home owners will win votes for politicians, regardless of what anyone thinks "should happen" in the housing market...Let's not pretend our government is above bribing citizens with their own money.



With the government elbow deep in the banking system now, it wouldn't surprise me if they more overtly controlled the open market inventory of REOs. Along with telling banks who've accepted government money just how many homes those banks can release on the open market, they could get really creative. Maybe they will see fit to offer incentives to large pools of investors who buy huge blocks of REO homes directly from banks before they hit the open market...maybe make the incentives contingent on the investors fixing them up, renting them out, and not reselling them for X number of years.



While I know it may not be a popular opinion here, I have to wonder if we're overestimating price drops below current levels. After all, it seems like much of that argument assumes laissez-faire capitalism...and right now we're far from it.



I'm by no means an expert...<strong>but I think we should at least consider the possibility that outside forces will prevent further HUGE declines. Completely ignoring that possibility seems just as short sided as a 2005 home buyer thinking his home's value would never drop</strong>.</blockquote>
Does the Fed government really want to play that game with the odds stacked against them? You will have to throw trillions of dollars into various loan classes and companies to keep things propped up....residential, commercial real estate, business lender, credit cards, auto loans, student loans, Fannie, Freddie, GM, AIG, etc. The Federal Gov't/Federal Reserve will go broke trying to pull all the various market forces. You can only fight the market for so long. No way am I ever going to buy a home unless it is equal to or less than the cost of renting, including the tax deductible aspect accounted for.
 
Does the 15K tax credit equate to savings of about 5K for the average buyer? You don't really get 15K back, you get back the taxes on those 15K, right? Or am I misunderstanding how this works? I'm also assuming that the AMT will chip away at it too.

Why does this even matter in Irvine? 5K is like the price drop for 1 month or so :)
 
[quote author="hedgehog" date=1244811333]Does the 15K tax credit equate to savings of about 5K for the average buyer? You don't really get 15K back, you get back the taxes on those 15K, right? Or am I misunderstanding how this works? I'm also assuming that the AMT will chip away at it too.

Why does this even matter in Irvine? 5K is like the price drop for 1 month or so :)</blockquote>
It's a tax credit...like a child tax credit, not a tax deduction. So it is $15k of actual cash money.
 
[quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1244811446][quote author="hedgehog" date=1244811333]Does the 15K tax credit equate to savings of about 5K for the average buyer? You don't really get 15K back, you get back the taxes on those 15K, right? Or am I misunderstanding how this works? I'm also assuming that the AMT will chip away at it too.

Why does this even matter in Irvine? 5K is like the price drop for 1 month or so :)</blockquote>
It's a tax credit...like a child tax credit, not a tax deduction. So it is $15k of actual cash money.</blockquote>


Wow. I didn't know that. Does that mean that if you owe no income taxes, you'll get a $15K tax return?
 
[quote author="ABC123" date=1244851642][quote author="usctrojanman29" date=1244811446][quote author="hedgehog" date=1244811333]Does the 15K tax credit equate to savings of about 5K for the average buyer? You don't really get 15K back, you get back the taxes on those 15K, right? Or am I misunderstanding how this works? I'm also assuming that the AMT will chip away at it too.

Why does this even matter in Irvine? 5K is like the price drop for 1 month or so :)</blockquote>
It's a tax credit...like a child tax credit, not a tax deduction. So it is $15k of actual cash money.</blockquote>


Wow. I didn't know that. Does that mean that if you owe no income taxes, you'll get a $15K tax return?</blockquote>
Not on all tax credits, but on this one, yes.
 
[quote author="Pookie" date=1245986706]how about for people people with minimum income who pays minimum tax, do they also get 15k back?</blockquote>




Well the credit is for up to 10% of the home's value. Someone with minimum income would still need to financially qualify for such a home. But yes, they could receive more from the government than they owe. In fact I'm pretty sure there is a qualifying income ceiling on the tax credit. If your annual household income exceeds a certain amount you are actually entitled to less than the full credit.
 
[quote author="Cuatro" date=1245992726][quote author="Pookie" date=1245986706]how about for people people with minimum income who pays minimum tax, do they also get 15k back?</blockquote>




Well the credit is for up to 10% of the home's value. Someone with minimum income would still need to financially qualify for such a home. But yes, they could receive more from the government than they owe. In fact I'm pretty sure there is a qualifying income ceiling on the tax credit. If your annual household income exceeds a certain amount you are actually entitled to less than the full credit.</blockquote>


$75K for single and $150K for couple.



here is a link for more info (not sure if this was posted before or not) : <a href="http://www.federalhousingtaxcredit.com/2009/faq.php#3">FAQ for HomeBuyer Tax Credit</a>
 
[quote author="hehegrl" date=1245993870][quote author="Cuatro" date=1245992726][quote author="Pookie" date=1245986706]how about for people people with minimum income who pays minimum tax, do they also get 15k back?</blockquote>




Well the credit is for up to 10% of the home's value. Someone with minimum income would still need to financially qualify for such a home. But yes, they could receive more from the government than they owe. In fact I'm pretty sure there is a qualifying income ceiling on the tax credit. If your annual household income exceeds a certain amount you are actually entitled to less than the full credit.</blockquote>


$75K for single and $150K for couple.



here is a link for more info (not sure if this was posted before or not) : <a href="http://www.federalhousingtaxcredit.com/2009/faq.php#3">FAQ for HomeBuyer Tax Credit</a></blockquote>


That's for the current eight grand. As currently proposed, the new $15k credit has no income limit, nor do you have to be a first time home buyer (defined as not owning a home in the past three years, so it doesn't really mean "first time home buyer") like in the current credit requires.



And, yes, most people getting the eight grand back (and many with the possible future fifteen) will have that be more than the overall federal income tax they paid that year (that is, instead of paying the Federal government, the government will pay them). In fact, I am such a person. Of course, this is only one year, and there are many other taxes (state income taxes, social security, medicare, sales taxes, etc.) that I pay.
 
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