Selfish, Hateful NIMBYs

[Burn That Belly]

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[StarmanMBA]

Okay.

1)  I am not sure why fewer homes mean that you are NIMBY.  I mean I assume then you are totally okay with homeless shelters being built in in Irvine.

YOU NIMBYs want to tell property owners, which of course you call "greedy developers," what to do with their properties.  How about we tell you to tear down your house and restore it to native habitat, and move to another town to reduce the traffic here you find so repugnant?  Moreover, the overwhelming majority of housing built is NOT for "homeless."  Stop changing the subject.  That's very poor debate form.

2)  Wanting less traffic has nothing to do with climate change.

Driving your kids all over the place, and driving to protests, and driving a very great deal WHILE preaching climate change sharia has everything to do with climate change, doesn't it.

3)  Greed is not about asking for more...it's about wanting to excess.

Fortunately YOU don't "want to excess."  Your wants are JUST RIGHT.  So are John Kerry's, Hillary Clinton's, Barack Obama's, Richard Branson's, and all the Hollywood Limousine Liberals who preach climate change before getting on their private jets.

Teachers want to gross excess, for working ~180 days, and getting very cushy retirement packages, paid for by working people the majority of whom collect the pittance from social security.  And since you characterize all developers as "greedy," presumably you will build thousands of needed houses and apartments all around Irvine, on property owned by others?  Explain how you will do this.

 

[StarmanMBA]

I think this traffic situation is what a lot of NIMBY's are reacting to.

[AS THEY DRIVE THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL, AND DRIVE BACK HOME, AND THEN DRIVE BACK TO PICK THEM UP AND TAKE THEM TO PIANO LESSONS OR ART LESSONS.]

If Irvine really does continue to evolve into a real city,

[RIGHT NOW, IT'S A FAKE CITY, RIGHT?]

For those who can't stand living here while a denser city develops around them, they should sell and move away to farther reaches of exurbs/suburbs which are still bedroom communities.

FOR NIMBYS WHO HOWL SO HYPOCRITICALLY, THEY SHOULD SELL AND MOVE AWAY TO FARTHER REACHES OF EXURBS/SUBURBS WHICH ARE STILL BEDROOM COMMUNITIES.

 

[Burn That Belly]

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[StarmanMBA]

Living in Irvine is a privilege or a luxury. The right to masterfully-planned housing is not guaranteed at birth by the government, although if you demonstrate poverty, you are an afforded EBT card and some form of assisted housing services.

With that being said, living in Irvine is like owning a BMW. If you can afford it, by all means. If you can't, take the bus.

NIMBYism is rampant throughout California.  It is not just constrained to Irvine.
Didn't you even know THAT?

Moreover, taking "the bus" does not make housing any more affordable.  You make no sense, try as you might.

There are plenty of cheap housing in CA still. Victorville is one.

Brilliant.  Absolutely brilliant. First, hundreds of thousands of people are already leaving THE STATE, not just Irvine.
Secondly, why do the residents of Victorville have to tolerate the kind of growth YOU whine about?   

If you worry about your kids not being able to afford in Irvine, and you should worry, then I suggest you steer your kids in the right direction. Taxpayers should not be subsidizing for anyone?s children?s shortcomings just to live in Irvine.

You're not making the slightest bit of sense.  I'll explain why.

1.  I'm arguing on behalf of EVERYBODY's kids. 
2.  I DID steer my kids in the right direction.  What I'm trying to do now is steer selfish NIMBYs in the right direction.  But like *progressives* (sick) everywhere, they never want to learn.  They have their demands and by God, everybody had better respect them.
3.  Taxpayers don't "subsidize for anyone's children's shortcomings just to live in Irvine."  The Irvine Company develops land, pays for infrastructure and then the property is sold or rented to the public. 

Therefore I fully respect and commend ?soclosetoirvine?s ?Ready2Downsize?s children to move out of state for affordable living.

Your selfishness is profoundly greedy and one-sided.  That is my point.
You've got yours, and you say the hell with everybody else.

 

[acpme]

Actually, there's a growing YIMBYism movement all across CA. In many places there are community groups welcoming development. The problem has been that land prices have risen so much its simply impossible for developers to build middle market housing. All in yields on a luxury apartment development project is LA and OC is around 5.5% assuming decent rent growth. Pretty thin return for the level of risk undertaken.

As much as we bemoan the Irvine Co, their unique situation creates unintended benefit to residents. As with many family RE businesses, Bren cares about cash flow as opposed to % returns like most investors. In other words, so long as he's making money - which he's making plenty of - he's not trying to optimize pricing. It helps a lot that his land basis is effectively zero, so for them, development isn't that risky. I would argue that cost of housing - both rental and owned - is artifically low in Irvine because of Irvine Co.

 

[Irvinecommuter]

Actually, there's a growing YIMBYism movement all across CA. In many places there are community groups welcoming development. The problem has been that land prices have risen so much its simply impossible for developers to build middle market housing. All in yields on a luxury apartment development project is LA and OC is around 5.5% assuming decent rent growth. Pretty thin return for the level of risk undertaken.

As much as we bemoan the Irvine Co, their unique situation creates unintended benefit to residents. As with many family RE businesses, Bren cares about cash flow as opposed to % returns like most investors. In other words, so long as he's making money - which he's making plenty of - he's not trying to optimize pricing. It helps a lot that his land basis is effectively zero, so for them, development isn't that risky. I would argue that cost of housing - both rental and owned - is artifically low in Irvine because of Irvine Co.

I think Irvine Co. has been great at master planning but it has faltered in the past 5 to 6 years.  The Chinese/Asian wave caught it by surprise and a lot of other developers have cashed in.  Only recently has Irvine Co. brought in ethnic businesses.  Most of the "neighborhood centers" are still stuck in the 1990s as far as tenants go.

It remains to be seen if they can adapt to the changing demographics.

 

[StarmanMBA]

Actually, there's a growing YIMBYism movement all across CA. In many places there are community groups welcoming development.

Name five.

In other words, so long as he's making money - which he's making plenty of - he's not trying to optimize pricing.

Right, so you're saying Donald Bren COULD sell land for $75 per square foot, but since "he's not trying to optimize pricing, " he is selling it for $50 per square foot.

Does this make sense to anyone else?  NOBODY gives away free stuff in that manner.

Have you any idea of what Bren's cash flow is?  I do.

 

[Burn That Belly]

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[paydawg]

BTB - I see your signature below, but where's CV, WBE, SGE and Foothill Ranch?

LF = Buick | PS = Hyundai | GP = Volkswagen | CVE = Kia | EW = BMW | OHR = AMG | OHG = Tesla | LA = Porsche | ALTR = Aston Martin | WB/SG = Infiniti/Lexus | TR = Land Rover | T = Cadillac  | HC = Maserati | NPC = Lambo

 

[Burn That Belly]

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[paydawg]

Do you think Irvine is too dense and the roads are not big enough?
Try visiting other cities around. Not to mention LA county has way more cars with way narrower roads with way much more expensive 800sq condos asking for about $800K - $1M and they are built in 1920s. I'm originally from Beverly Hills and Irvine is almost too wide and open space for me (which I like).

Yes I do. Then again, I have been in the area since the 1980's when Bryan and Culver was a four way stop and Bryan was one lane in each direction.

It shouldn't take 30-45 min to go a few miles on Jamboree at 5 PM.

To say well this isn't like traffic in Beverly Hills is like saying well the recent downturn the economy wasn't that bad. We could have been worse like in the Great Depression and maybe the farmers should be glad we don't have the dustbowl because it could always be worse.

The point is GOING FORWARD, not what was. The roads are congested enough and we have enough houses. The kids and grandkids can and will find a place to live. Building more NOW helps them buy a house in 20-40 years? Yeah, I'd like to see how that works. Cuz THEN there is no more land. We built it all out now.

AND building, building, building and then complaining we don't have enough water for everyone? Don't even get me started on that.

I work near the airport and live in WB.  I use Jamboree going home at 5pm everyday and it takes me 25 minutes door-to-door.  it never takes me 45 minutes. 

 

[Hugo Township]

Fortunately YOU don't "want to excess."  Your wants are JUST RIGHT.  So are John Kerry's, Hillary Clinton's, Barack Obama's, Richard Branson's, and all the Hollywood Limousine Liberals who preach climate change before getting on their private jets.

What a strange left (right?) turn for this thread. I don't know what the FYGM attitude of NIMBYs has to do with (relatively centrist) Democrats, and I would actually suggest that most anti-development folks on this forum vote Republican. I think it's more important to focus on economic competitiveness, and meeting increasing employment/housing needs.

 

[fortune11]

Fortunately YOU don't "want to excess."  Your wants are JUST RIGHT.  So are John Kerry's, Hillary Clinton's, Barack Obama's, Richard Branson's, and all the Hollywood Limousine Liberals who preach climate change before getting on their private jets.

What a strange left (right?) turn for this thread. I don't know what the FYGM attitude of NIMBYs has to do with (relatively centrist) Democrats, and I would actually suggest that most anti-development folks on this forum vote Republican. I think it's more important to focus on economic competitiveness, and meeting increasing employment/housing needs.

You are correct

Starlord just needs a place to vent his frustrations at living and working in a state run by Democrats  -- probably got his MBA at Trump University

 

[StarmanMBA]

Fortunately YOU don't "want to excess."  Your wants are JUST RIGHT.  So are John Kerry's, Hillary Clinton's, Barack Obama's, Richard Branson's, and all the Hollywood Limousine Liberals who preach climate change before getting on their private jets.

What a strange left (right?) turn for this thread. I don't know what the FYGM attitude of NIMBYs has to do with (relatively centrist) Democrats, and I would actually suggest that most anti-development folks on this forum vote Republican. I think it's more important to focus on economic competitiveness, and meeting increasing employment/housing needs.

You are correct

Starlord just needs a place to vent his frustrations at living and working in a state run by Democrats  -- probably got his MBA at Trump University

Anywhere someone posted an opinion contrary to your own exalted missives, you could call it "a place to vent his frustrations."  Read the LA Times any day.  All they do in every section is vent their spleens in typical Democrat style.

As to where I earned my MBA, let me say this.  I challenged a financial adviser a few years ago when she wrote an inane article published in the Register.  She responded that she earned HER MBA at USC.  I offered her a wager of $10,000 that my portfolio return exceeded her model portfolio and she declined the wager. Wise of her.

I could go on at some length, but there is no need to do so.  My portfolio earns more than you do, I'm quite sure.

 

[fortune11]

Sigh .. another trump loving financial advisor .. someone tell him we already have enough of those on this forum ? where is diversity when you need it

But , Seriously you need to chill once in a while ...don?t turn everything from civilized discourse into a hate-fest

 

[irvinebullhousing]

Fortunately YOU don't "want to excess."  Your wants are JUST RIGHT.  So are John Kerry's, Hillary Clinton's, Barack Obama's, Richard Branson's, and all the Hollywood Limousine Liberals who preach climate change before getting on their private jets.

What a strange left (right?) turn for this thread. I don't know what the FYGM attitude of NIMBYs has to do with (relatively centrist) Democrats, and I would actually suggest that most anti-development folks on this forum vote Republican. I think it's more important to focus on economic competitiveness, and meeting increasing employment/housing needs.

You are correct

Starlord just needs a place to vent his frustrations at living and working in a state run by Democrats  -- probably got his MBA at Trump University

ROTFLMAO

 

[acpme]

Name five.

LA, SF, SJ, OC, Sac, you name it...

 

[acpme]

You know a thread has gone sideways when the OP starts attacking both people responding in support and against his original thesis.

 

[acpme]

Name five.

LA, SF, SJ, OC, Sac, you name it... use google. Honestly trying to deny there's not even a few YIMBY movements out there? Are you living under a rock and what people are saying about housing and affordability in CA?

How can you be against NIMBYism and at the same time be defensive about YIMBYism?  ???
https://yimbyla.com/http://www.citywatchla.com/index.ph...931-move-over-nimbys-and-make-room-for-yimbys

www.sfyimby.org/
yimbyaction.org/
https://cayimby.org/take-action/local/orange-county/http://www.peopleforhousing.org/https://www.ocregister.com/2017/09/...s-join-the-battle-in-california-housing-wars/
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/11...by-movement-is-winning-with-a-simple-message/
http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/erika-d-smith/article162699668.html

In other words, so long as he's making money - which he's making plenty of - he's not trying to optimize pricing.

Right, so you're saying Donald Bren COULD sell land for $75 per square foot, but since "he's not trying to optimize pricing, " he is selling it for $50 per square foot.

Does this make sense to anyone else?  NOBODY gives away free stuff in that manner.

Have you any idea of what Bren's cash flow is?  I do.

No, I'm not saying he's selling anything at a discount. I'm saying he doesn't optimize his business. The apartment business on revenue mgmt. Properties next door to each other, controlled by a monopoly, often promote and price against each other. They willing to let developable land, office, or retail space sit vacant if they don't like the market clearing price.

TIC has the luxury to do so, but also because it doesn't have to meet qtrly growth numbers. Bren does comp against some of the REITs but overall he is not focused on hitting qtrly growth numbers like a public corporation would be. He actually doesn't run the business like the monopoly that it is... and that is favorable to Irvine in that prices for homes and rentals are not what they would be otherwise.

In other words, imagine the land basis in Central OC was marked to today's market value. This is not far off from reality as in most metro areas where most commercial RE and developable land that isn't owned by TIC has traded once or twice in this cycle given how much values have increased. From the new marked up basis, the master developer and developer has to make a profit. Imagine what the ultimate price to us, the retail buyer, would be? Probably a lot higher.