Process for determining true property lines?

Your question is vague. When you purchase a property the legal documents has a site map prepared by the civil engineer. A property line has a dimension like 56.35' followed by the angle of the line respect to true north like 35 degrees and 23 minutes. Property is behind the back of sidewalk and the rest of the property boundaries are located at the middle of the shared yard walls between properties. If there is no wall at the rear because your property has view then the fence line or mow strip that delineate the HOA landscape is close enough. Most people do not have the instrument to measure the intricate angles so a surveyer or a civil engineer would be the professional who can determine the property lines based on recorded information with the county. An architect is NOT the one to call to verify boundaries. Based on land usage today you would not need to worry about property lines. A microscope would be needed to see your property.
 
<p>TheBuyLowHobo - bkshopr is right about your question is too vague. He is 10% right about the rest. Sorry bkshopr, I am a land surveyor.</p>

<p>Property lines are determined by many, many factors. Let me ask you few questions to determine what you really want to know. Do you own property? What city or county is it in? Do you have a deed? And does that deed have a legal description? Why do you want to know where your property line is? Different needs determine different degrees of accuracy. Are you thinking of improving your property? Building a fence? In discussions with a neighbor?</p>
 
<p>Thanks for the responses. I'll take this time to devague the qustion. </p>

<p>Property is in Villa Park (about a 1/2 acre, not microscopic for Orange County standards at least) </p>

<p>Is owned by a family member </p>

<p>Thinking of building a fence on a border with city property ("park" in name only). </p>

<p>Have been told the property line might lie up to 6 feet into the city property from where the current fence is </p>

<p>Do I go to the city or the county to find such records (as I am sure any paperwork the owner should have will be impossible to find) and what information will they give me? </p>

<p>My apologies for the ambiguity.</p>

<p>TBLH</p>
 
<p><em>"Property is in Villa Park (about a 1/2 acre, not microscopic for Orange County standards at least"</em> - So far, so good. Property lines are relatively easy to determine in Villa Park.</p>

<p><em>"Thinking of building a fence on a border with city property ("park" in name only)."</em> - This is the part where you may have gotten lucky. Many government organizations which hold public land in trust have their own rules that they must determine right of way, (property line for the city), when requested by an abutting land owner. Head on down to Villa Park civic center, don't call, to the civil engineering department. Villa Park probably does not have a survey department, but if it does, go instead to the survey department. And find out if Villa Park has a policy stating that they will determine their right of way. If they do, fill out the paperwork and wait, and wait, and ...</p>

<p><em>"Have been told the property line might lie up to 6 feet into the city property from where the current fence is"</em> - Do not believe anything you have been told unless it was told to you by a civil engineer or land surveyor who works in Villa Park. My own opinion is that most government organizations that hold public land in trust install fences about 6 inches into the city's right of way and build walls as close to right of way as is practicle.</p>

<p><em>"Do I go to the city or the county to find such records (as I am sure any paperwork the owner should have will be impossible to find) and what information will they give me?"</em> - Your deed has your property's legal description on it. Your deed legally determines what is your property. The legal description may reference a map. A copy of the map may be kept with the city and is most defintely kept by Orange County. But, there probably is no reason for you to access maps, because proceeding from a map is surveyor stuff. Figuring out your own property corners from a parcel map would be like me operating to remove your appendix while I was looking at an anatomy book.</p>

<p>To proceed further, I need to ask you another question. If there already exists a fence, why do you want to build another fence parallel to the existing fence?</p>
 
The existing fence is on its last legs, and rather than have to worry about tearing the fence down and exposing the backyard to the world for a number of days, the idea was floated to just build the new fence on the "true" property line and then worry about tearing the old fence down (one swift kick would probably do it actually) on our own time with no exposure concerns
 
Awgee thank you for your professional insight. I assumed the property might be just a tract home parcel from the builders. Custom lots in Villa Park is not as straight forward as I described since the community has no public sidewalk and plenty of down slope and topography that a recorded map only illustrates the 2 dimensional plan and the property may be on a incline and warped plane that the dimensions are actually longer than plan view when dimension is measured parallel to the inclined surface. Very complicated and should be left for you the professional to handle. No homeowners can stake that property line on their own. The answer is there is no easy way.
 
<p>Well see, this may get even easier. Can you think of reasons why the fence's condition may incur a safety hazard? Could it possibly allow access to your property from the "park"? If the fence in on the city's right of way, you are not allowed to tear it down, but if it is a safety issue, the city needs to be informed so they may repair or replace the fence.</p>

<p>There is no "true" property line and there is no untrue property line. There are property lines and lines of occupation and easements and encroachments and ... , but no "true" property lines.</p>

<p>If you really feel it necessary to build a fence at your expense rather than the city's expense and you really feel it necessary to know where your property line is, you will need to hire a land surveyor. We go for about $400 per hour and it could take anywhere from 3 hours to 6 hours to determine where you rear lot line is.</p>
 
If you find the monument marker "disc" on your property lines (or top of your block wall) you can look up the number and find the name of the surveyor. Sometimes they live local and can be found with a bit of sleuthing
 
<p>Don't you need a permit to build a fence? Isn't it customery there, where it's a sf house, to get a survey at closing? Don't the lenders require it?</p>

<p>I am in a bitter fight over boundary lines, where the original developer made a 22 foot boo-boo. Since Florida is flat, there are no ups and downs to fight over. My client commissioned a survey after purchase of a tax deed. Over 10 years ago, he made the neighbor move the fence back to where it belonged. Then the fence got damaged in hurricane Wilma and the new owner moved it and then moved it again deep into my client's lot.</p>

<p>It's very important to find out whose fence it actually is. Is there an architectural control committee which rules on such things as part of the HOA? Usually a survey would show that. Gosh, surveys are very expensive there.</p>
 
Property boundaries are always a critical issue. I have a friend who has been in a fight about the boundaries of his property for about a year now. Usually the boundaries should be shown in the land registry plan. In the case of my friend however, some data from the land registry was lost which makes the case even more complicated. I am not sure if the same is applicable for <a href="http://www.floridaventure.co.uk/">Florida property</a>. But this in any case only shows the general boundary and not the exact one.



I guess in case of dispute the only way of solving it is employing experts who are usually really expensive, but will determine the exact boundaries of the property. In the case of my friend the experts are currently conducting their work and research and he really hopes that the dispute with his neighbors will be over soon.
 
[quote author="awgee" date=1204122378]<p>TheBuyLowHobo - bkshopr is right about your question is too vague. He is 10% right about the rest. Sorry bkshopr, I am a land surveyor.</p>

<p>Property lines are determined by many, many factors. Let me ask you few questions to determine what you really want to know. Do you own property? What city or county is it in? Do you have a deed? And does that deed have a legal description? Why do you want to know where your property line is? Different needs determine different degrees of accuracy. Are you thinking of improving your property? Building a fence? In discussions with a neighbor?</p></blockquote>
Do an ALTA land survey clearly indentify the boundries of a property? I believe the legal description on the title report is based upon the ATLA land survey, right? I have a client who needed to do a commercial subdivision (one parcel into 3 parcels) and I remember the new legal description were provided by the land surveyor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top